Douglas Caddy Posted December 16, 2014 Posted December 16, 2014 Transcript with documents and links to documents of John Newman’s presentation at AARC Conference Posted Nov. 13, 2014 http://justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/2014/11/transcript-with-documents-and-links-to.html?zx=1f29fd03d828c331
Chuck Schwartz Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Who did DAP report to in the CIA ? Allen Dulles? What was DAP's line of command to Allen Dulles or did he report directly to Allen Dulles?
Larry Hancock Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Chuck, you need to specify a time frame...but in the fall of 1963, Phillips had recently been assigned to report to Desmond Fitzgerald, who had himself just taken over the anti-Castro Cuban mission that year as head of the newly organized SAS group. Prior to that he had reported to the Mexico City CIA chief of station following the end of the JMARC Cuba project after the Bay of Pigs. Those assignments were all way down the chain of command from headquarters, certainly he never reported to Dulles and it would be years after 1963 until he moved up the structure to a senior position. At the time Dulles left the CIA Phillips was still working in individual projects within the PP Directorate which included propaganda, psychological and paramilitary operations.
Thomas Graves Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Transcript with documents and links to documents of John Newman’s presentation at AARC Conference Posted Nov. 13, 2014 http://justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/2014/11/transcript-with-documents-and-links-to.html?zx=1f29fd03d828c331 Excellent stuff, Douglas! Here's the C-SPAN video of Newman's presentation. http://www.c-span.org/video/?321703-3/kennedy-assassination-cia Thanks, --Tommy sun
Paul Brancato Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Larry - who headed up the pp directorate in 1962-63?
Thomas Graves Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Transcript with documents and links to documents of John Newman’s presentation at AARC Conference Posted Nov. 13, 2014 http://justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/2014/11/transcript-with-documents-and-links-to.html?zx=1f29fd03d828c331 Excellent stuff, Douglas! Here's the C-SPAN video of Newman's presentation. It includes something that's not in the transcript: a question and answer segment at the end, during which there's an interesting exchange regarding whether or not the plotters wanted to make it look like RFK had approved of the AMLASH plot against Castro. http://www.c-span.org/video/?321703-3/kennedy-assassination-cia Thanks, --Tommy PS Newman presents a very convincing case that "Tony Sforza" was the CIA pseudonym of Francesco Antonio Tepedino (born 1900 in Salermo, Italy), the adoptive father of Carlos Tepedino Gonzalez (AM/Whip), and that Francesco Antonio Tepedino's other pseudonyms were "Henry J. Sloman", "Frank Stevens", and "Enrique". Newman reveals that Francesco Antonio Tepedino's CIA cryptonym was AM/Rye-1. Newman also reveals that one of the many pseudonyms of David Atlee Phillips was "Andrew F. Merton", and that George Joannides' boss was William M. Kent, aka "Douglas Gupton", aka "Robert K.Tr(o)uchard", aka "Oliver H. Cor(b)ust(o)n". Newman says that the CIA officers who plotted the assassination of JFK only pretended to try to kill Castro with the Rolando Cubela (AM/LASH) plot; they wanted Castro to continue living past 11/22/63 so that they could blame Castro for killing Kennedy. He says that JM/WAVE set up the Tepedinos, who were old friends of Rolando Cubela's, to recruit Cubela for the (unknown to them) fake assassination plot against Castro. --Tommy As to who headed up PP or KUCAGE in 1962-63, the following document might serve as a clue. It's dated June 12, 1961, and is signed by Stanley R. Zamka (David Sanchez Morales), "Chief of Station" JMWAVE. https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=37546&relPageId=2 Also see: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/CIA_Diary_Agee.html EDIT: It's signed "Stanley R, Zamka" and the document says it's from Chief of Base, not "Chief of Station." Edited December 19, 2014 by Thomas Graves
Paul Brancato Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Thanks Thomas - good synopsis of Newman's great detective work. Agee's description of the role of the PP operations in foreign countries fits DAP to a tee. Do we know for sure that Morales was chief of JM wave station in Miami? Or is his signature (Zamka) on this document an indication that he worked for the COS?
Paul Brancato Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 I was under the impression that Shackley was COS in Miami.
Paul Brancato Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Thomas - Morley's lawsuit, which I assume is still ongoing, names Joannides as head of the PP at JM wave in 1962-63. I think the point of all this questioning was whether Phillips had close connections with JM wave PP. Someone asked who DAP reported to, implying that he was in personal communication with Dulles. Clearly for me, DAP was close to the Miami station. Isn't it true that Angleton was the overall head of PP, and that he was in close contact with Dulles?
Larry Hancock Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Paul, Shackley was Chief of Station and Morales headed base operations - which included responsibility for everything from training to infiltration and ex-filtration missions. In November both Morales and Sforza (according to his family a true family name not an alias) were involved and in contact with David Phillips on a project to exfiltrate Castro's sister via Mexico. Sforsa had functioned as her primary contact while he was still in Cuba. Simpich and I have both written extensively about Phillips activities in the fall of 63 as well as the supportive relationship between JMWAVE and Mexico. There was even a sub station of JMWAVE in Mexico, personnel including Morales often traveled to Mexico and the AMOTS did training for the MC surveillance and wire tap teams. Given Bill's immense recent work with JMWAVE documents all of this is much less mysterious than it used to be and the close association between JMWAVE operations and covert operations in Mexico is now well documented. Angleton was head of CI/SIG and in NEXUS I go into great detail about his competition for CI work with both JMWAVE, SAS/CI and Mexico City Station. Bill goes even further in such detail in State Secrets. Its very likely that Angleton was still in contact with Dulles in 63 but his primary headquarters contacts were via his personal relationship with both Helms and Harvey.
Paul Brancato Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Thanks Larry - do you find Newman's evidence on Sforza's real name unconvincing? I gathered from Simpich that Angleton's end run around JM wave while mole hunting after the Oswald impersonation was a clue that he suspected someone at JM wave being the mole. Just to be clear, are you saying that what Newman refers to as PP staff was not connected to Angleton? I get confused with all the letter codes so I hope the questions don't sound stupid. So am I incorrect when I interpret Morley's work on Joannides as saying that he was head of PP at JM wave?
Larry Hancock Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Paul, I have talked with Bill and others who have spoken with at least one and possibly more of Sforza's children and they seem to be firm that it was a true family name, one they grew up with and used throughout their lives. I've got contact info for one of them and have had an introduction but honestly its just not on my priorities at the moment. I can confirm that three of the alias's/psuedos that John discussed in his presentation are in my 2010 edition of SWHT where I discuss them....I located them independently through separate document research. As to the Angleton connection, that can get very confusing. For example Morales was definitely PP staff within Operations, however at times his path appears to cross Angleton. In NEXUS I write about Angleton's various involvement in Cuban affairs, beginning with his stepping into an intelligence role following the BOP and preparing a major Cuban intel report that went to high levels in Washington. He clearly used resources at JMWAVE including the AMMOTs Morales had trained. Who they were reporting to at the time is unclear but it was probably Morales himself. Angleton had the authority to step across a lot of normal boundaries but I think its safe to say that no PP staff functionally reported to him and that generally in his headquarters role he did not touch operations. One exception was his work with Harvey on ZR/RIFLE and Mongoose but that was something way out of normal practice. As to Joanides and PP staff at JM WAVE, I would assume he was head of the propaganda and psych war activities there and PP staff would have worked for and around him....but there were other PP staff working for Morales and Shackley .... I think there is every reason to feel Joanides woudl have been in touch with Phillips. Honestly off the top of my head though, I don't know if Joinides would have been directly reporting to Shackley as JM/WAVE COS or to Fitzgerald as head of the Cuban SAS project. Simpich could probably tells us that easily enough, I'm afraid my interests are off in other areas these days, along with most of my gray cells. To comment on another question - I can't locate all my Nagell files readily so I cannot name his exact organization in Japan but I can say for sure that he was assigned to the Counter Intelligence Corps there and as part of that assignment had taking training at the CIC school at Fort Holobird (sp). For reference not the Wiki background on CIC below and the fact that Japan and Germany were primary assignments for CIC officers following WWII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence_Corps_%28United_States_Army%29 Edited December 17, 2014 by Larry Hancock
Thomas Graves Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Paul, I have talked with Bill and others who have spoken with at least one and possibly more of Sforza's children and they seem to be firm that it was a true family name, one they grew up with and used throughout their lives. I've got contact info for one of them and have had an introduction but honestly its just not on my priorities at the moment. I can confirm that three of the alias's/psuedos that John discussed in his presentation are in my 2010 edition of SWHT where I discuss them....I located them independently through separate document research. As to the Angleton connection, that can get very confusing. For example Morales was definitely PP staff within Operations, however at times his path appears to cross Angleton. In NEXUS I write about Angleton's various involvement in Cuban affairs, beginning with his stepping into an intelligence role following the BOP and preparing a major Cuban intel report that went to high levels in Washington. He clearly used resources at JMWAVE including the AMMOTs Morales had trained. Who they were reporting to at the time is unclear but it was probably Morales himself. Angleton had the authority to step across a lot of normal boundaries but I think its safe to say that no PP staff functionally reported to him and that generally in his headquarters role he did not touch operations. One exception was his work with Harvey on ZR/RIFLE and Mongoose but that was something way out of normal practice. As to Joanides and PP staff at JM WAVE, I would assume he was head of the propaganda and psych war activities there and PP staff would have worked for and around him....but there were other PP staff working for Morales and Shackley .... I think there is every reason to feel Joanides woudl have been in touch with Phillips. Honestly off the top of my head though, I don't know if Joinides would have been directly reporting to Shackley as JM/WAVE COS or to Fitzgerald as head of the Cuban SAS project. Simpich could probably tells us that easily enough, I'm afraid my interests are off in other areas these days, along with most of my gray cells. To comment on another question - I can't locate all my Nagell files readily so I cannot name his exact organization in Japan but I can say for sure that he was assigned to the Counter Intelligence Corps there and as part of that assignment had taking training at the CIC school at Fort Holobird (sp). Larry, Newman says that Joannides' boss was William M. Kent, with pseudos "Douglas Gupton", "Robert K. Trouchard", and "Oliver H. Corbuston". Could it be that William M. Kent was head of PP Staff at JMWAVE? https://books.google.com/books?id=CC_3AgAAQBAJ&pg=PT237&lpg=PT237&dq=%22bill+kent%22+cia&source=bl&ots=H8WO5RW-iF&sig=ZPzHEaDa6rIjvet40r2e3D0ezgQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MuWRVL-uCMmoyATw4YL4Ag&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22bill%20kent%22%20cia&f=false From Dan Hardway's 2014 ARRC presentation: "At some point between July 31, 1963, and May 15, 1964, Joannides replaced Kent as chief of covert operations at JMWAVE. While the scantily released documents on Joannides makes it impossible to determine the time, Kent/Trouchard references in JMWAVE files end after 7/25/63. By October, 1963, Kent is working at HQ WH/CA. (17) Where Kent/Trouchard was between the end of July and October 11, 1963, is not known. It is reasonable, therefore, to presume that Joannides became the director of covert operations at JMWAVE sometime between the end of July and the beginning of October, 1963. (18 )" [...] "As director of covert action, Joannides only retained direct responsibility for one operation: the student project involving “distribution of printed propaganda, production of radio programs, and the development of political action programs.”(20) footnote 20: "Interestingly enough, it was during this time frame that he [Joannides] also assumed responsibility for security reviews on JMWAVE’s covert action operations and has his fitness review conducted by David Morales, who noted “that he would be pleased to have [Joannides] work with [me] at any other Field Station that might be entrusted to [me].” A hope that would be subsequently fulfilled in Viet Nam." http://aarclibrary.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/dan_hardway_aarc_9_26_14.pdf FWIW, Hardway and Newman quote Kent's daughter as saying that the only thing her father ever said to the family about the JFK assassination was that "Oswald was a useful idiot". --Tommy Edited December 18, 2014 by Thomas Graves
James Richards Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Newman got Sforza all wrong. Not even close.
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