Silvia Odio and Other Inconvenient Witnesses

[Don Jeffries]

Greg,

So let me get this straight. Sylvia Odio was visited by three people. One of them was named "Leon," and never said his last name, even though she told the Warren Commission that he had said "Oswald." Whoever this guy was, his friend described him as a "crazy" ex-Marine who had called the Cuban people cowards for not killing Kennedy. But this had nothing to do with the ex-Marine Lee Harvey Oswald, who would in short order be blamed for killing the very same Kennedy.

Or, alternatively, the "crazy" ex-Marine was the real Lee Harvey Oswald. Or Sylvia Odio was suffering from emotional problems. Like Ralph Yates, Or Albert Bogard. Maybe it was something in the water.

[Don Jeffries]

David,

I've been over this before, but perhaps not with you. Steven Witt came along at a perfect moment, as the HSCA was concentrating on the more sensational aspects of critical research (for instance, the three tramps). The televised hearings with Witt were a circus. The most memorable moment came when the umbrella "accidentally" opened and Chairman Louis Stokes could joke about not pointing it at him, in a clear derisive reference to theories that had suggested the Umbrella Man had fired a dart-like weapon.

Witt's rationale for being in Dealey Plaza with an open umbrella was about as believable as any other element of the official story, I suppose. I doubt that many citizens of Dallas, or Americans in general, would have caught his obscure "protest" against Neville Chamberlain's politics a quarter century earlier. It's even less likely that JFK would have recognized an open umbrella as something connecting him to a long-dead British politician.

If you ever read The Continuing Inquiry you know that little monthly periodical covered Witt's story in depth. As the internet wasn't born yet, and the mainstream media wasn't about to do anything other than regurgitate the official story, TCI was about the only independent source of regular information about the assassination at that time. Witt's testimony didn't match the filmed actions of TUM. And there is no innocent explanation- with or without Neville Chamberlain- that explains TUM's casual attitude after the shooting, and we still don't know just who his dark-complexioned companion was.

The Umbrella Man stood out like a sore thumb that day, and I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't there to stage a political protest that even surviving members of Neville Chamberlan's family would fail to understand. I don't know about the dentist you refer to, but TUM and his companion should have been among the first witnesses questioned by the authorities. The fact that they weren't even identified is just another indictment of the "investigation" into this case.

[Ron Ecker]

TUM and his companion should have been among the first witnesses questioned by the authorities.

It's amazing how they calmly sat down together at the curb to watch the circus as everybody else was running around, with DCM even possibly using a walkie talkie according to photos. And not a single cop bothered them. It's also strange to me that a carful of SS agents didn't notice the open and pumping umbrella, or didn't think enough of it at least to radio what they saw to somebody during their ride to Parkland.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Ron Ecker

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Going to cut against the grain here -- given the fact that JFK's own father was Ambassador to Great Britain, and that JFK himself was an historian of sorts, and that the Kennedy family lived in England during the key years of the era, and that JFK was also used to being greeted with signs and posters and flags (note the Confederate flag at Love Field), it's NO stretch whatsoever to think that a crank like Witt could effectively communicate the Chamberlain appeasement by displaying an open umbrella (which he did NOT pump, by the way).

And I also have a problem with the CT community citing these two guys sitting down as being indicative of guilt in some way. Wouldn't it be more natural for guilty people to skedaddle and NOT just sit around. Remaining on site is one of the key supporting elements to their complete innocence.

[Ron Ecker]

Wouldn't it be more natural for guilty people to skedaddle and NOT just sit around.

No, not after performing their act right there by the limo in broad daylight. Nonchalance seemed more appropriate, not skedaddling like they had just done something wrong.

Remaining on site is one of the key supporting elements to their complete innocence.

Or their calmly sitting down on site had exactly the desired effect on the arriving cops. The cops ignored two guys who were just sitting around.

[Ron Ecker]

Witt could effectively communicate the Chamberlain appeasement by displaying an open umbrella (which he did NOT pump, by the way).

On what basis do you say he did not pump the umbrella? In Bronson photo the umbrella is held high in the air. In Willis photo the umbrella is held low over UM's head. That indicates to me that he pumped the umbrella, i.e. raising it high, at least once.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Ron Ecker

[Greg Parker]

Greg,

So let me get this straight. Sylvia Odio was visited by three people. One of them was named "Leon," and never said his last name, even though she told the Warren Commission that he had said "Oswald." Whoever this guy was, his friend described him as a "crazy" ex-Marine who had called the Cuban people cowards for not killing Kennedy. But this had nothing to do with the ex-Marine Lee Harvey Oswald, who would in short order be blamed for killing the very same Kennedy.

Or, alternatively, the "crazy" ex-Marine was the real Lee Harvey Oswald. Or Sylvia Odio was suffering from emotional problems. Like Ralph Yates, Or Albert Bogard. Maybe it was something in the water.

Odio was all over shop.

Mr. LIEBELER. After looking at this picture, are you more convinced, or less convinced, or do you still have about the same feeling that you had before you looked at it that the man who was in your apartment late in September was the same man as Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mrs. ODIO. I have to be careful about that, because I have the same feeling that it was, but at the same time I have been looking at papers for months and months of pictures, and these help you to remember too much. I wish I could isolate the incident without remembering the other pictures. I have a feeling there are certain pictures that do not resemble him. It was not the Oswald that was standing in front of my door. He was kind of tired looking. He had a little smile, but he was sunken in in the face that day. More skinny, I would say.

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Mr. LIEBELER. Did your sister hear this man introduced as Leon Oswald?

Mrs. ODIO. She says she doesn't recall. She could not say that it is true. I mean, even though she said she thought I had mentioned the name very clearly, and I had mentioned the names of the three men.

Mr. LIEBELER. But she didn't remember it?

Mrs. ODIO. No;

-----------------

Mr. LIEBELER. Did she think it was Oswald?

Mrs. ODIO. Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television, she almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I learned about the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so obvious that it was him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don't know how to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven't shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind of shadow. That is something I noticed. And he was wearing--the other ones were wearing white dirty shirts, but he was wearing a long sleeved shirt.

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Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned when your sister saw Oswald's picture on television that she almost passed out. Did she recognize him, do you know, as the man that had been in the apartment?

Mrs. ODIO. She said, "Sylvia, you know that man?" And I said, "Yes," and she said, "I know him." "He was the one that came to our door, and it couldn't be so, could it?"

------------------------------------

Mrs. ODIO. The next day Leopoldo called me. I had gotten home from work, so I imagine it must have been Friday. And they had come on Thursday. I have been trying to establish that. He was trying to get fresh with me that night. He was trying to be too nice, telling me that I was pretty, and he started like that. That is the way he started the conversation. Then he said, "What do you think of the American?" And I said, "I didn't think anything." And he said, "You know our idea is to introduce him to the underground in Cuba, because he is great, he is kind of nuts." This was more or less--I can't repeat the exact words, because he was kind of nuts. He told us we don't have any guts, you Cubans, because President Kennedy should have been assassinated filter the Bay of Pigs, and some Cubans should have done that, because he was the one that was holding the freedom of Cuba actually. And I started getting a little upset with the conversation. And he said, "It is so easy to do it." He has told us. And he (Leopoldo) used two or three bad words, and I wouldn't repeat it in Spanish. And he repeated again they were leaving for a trip and they would like very much to see me on their return to Dallas. Then he mentioned something more about Oswald. They called him Leon. He never mentioned the name Oswald.

Mr. LIEBELER. He never mentioned the name of Oswald on the telephone?

Mrs. ODIO. He never mentioned his last name. He always referred to the American or Leon.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did he mention his last name the night before?

Mrs. ODIO. Before they left I asked their names again, and he mentioned their names again.

Mr. LIEBELER. But he did not mention Oswald's name except as Leon?

Mrs. ODIO. On the telephone conversation he referred to him as Leon or American.

----------------------

Sylvia refused to answer directly to the question "did they use the name Oswald the night before"? and Liebeler gave up on it. But it is apparent they did not use it. Note that she says she almost passed out when news broke - not because she heard the name Oswald - but simply because of the assassination itself. It was her sister Annie who almost passed out because she thought she recognized Oswald as the same man. Annie seems to be the innocent original influence. I think Mrs Connell may have done the rest.

Just to be clear, according to you, was this the real Oswald, or not? I get the impression you think it was an imposter. But who looked so much like Oswald they could fool little Orphan Annie?

You are also, I take it, confused as to why they would say the things on the phone that they said, if not to set Oswald up... and then try and make that my issue. Sorry - your limited ability to think outside the square boxes presented to you by others is not my problem. Not one bit.

[Don Jeffries]

Greg,

Obviously, I feel that the "crazy" ex-Marine who visited Sylvia Odio was an impostor,a look-a-like designed to incriminate the patsy beforehand. This was a view that virtually all reputable researchers held until recent years. The reason Sylvia and her sister thought they recognized him was because..."Leon" looked a lot like Oswald. I imagine that was a primary requirement for the job.

I don't think it's an out of the box situation here. The phone call about "Leon" Oswald calling the Cubans cowards for not killing Kennedy was either what it appears on the surface to be- an effort to portray this ex-Marine as a potential assassin of JFK, or it was an especially remarkable coincidence, even for apologists of the official story. As anyone can read from Sylvia Odio's WC testimony, which I posted earlier on this thread, she did state that Leon was introduced to her as "Oswald" when the three comrades arrived at her door. It was only during the ensuing phone call that he was only referred to as "Leon."

But, as the always accurate Gerald Posner noted, Sylvia Odio had a history of mental problems. As a few others on this forum have claimed, so did Ralph Yates. Now, you have informed us that Albert Bogard was unfortunately also a victim of this curious mental illness, which unduly struck those who crossed paths with someone who looked like Oswald, was referred to as Oswald, and whose behavior was memorable enough to stick in their unbalanced minds, and yet could not have been the real LHO since reputable information had him in other locales at those times.

It seems to be a pretty clear cut case of conspiratorial shenanigans. Espionage 101, if you will. But you'll have none of it, because you have decided that there was only one Oswald, no matter what I or any other "clown," or "disgraceful" researcher says.

[Greg Parker]

Greg,

Obviously, I feel that the "crazy" ex-Marine who visited Sylvia Odio was an impostor,a look-a-like designed to incriminate the patsy beforehand. This was a view that virtually all reputable researchers held until recent years. The reason Sylvia and her sister thought they recognized him was because..."Leon" looked a lot like Oswald. I imagine that was a primary requirement for the job.

I don't think it's an out of the box situation here. The phone call about "Leon" Oswald calling the Cubans cowards for not killing Kennedy was either what it appears on the surface to be- an effort to portray this ex-Marine as a potential assassin of JFK, or it was an especially remarkable coincidence, even for apologists of the official story. As anyone can read from Sylvia Odio's WC testimony, which I posted earlier on this thread, she did state that Leon was introduced to her as "Oswald" when the three comrades arrived at her door. It was only during the ensuing phone call that he was only referred to as "Leon."

But, as the always accurate Gerald Posner noted, Sylvia Odio had a history of mental problems. As a few others on this forum have claimed, so did Ralph Yates. Now, you have informed us that Albert Bogard was unfortunately also a victim of this curious mental illness, which unduly struck those who crossed paths with someone who looked like Oswald, was referred to as Oswald, and whose behavior was memorable enough to stick in their unbalanced minds, and yet could not have been the real LHO since reputable information had him in other locales at those times.

It seems to be a pretty clear cut case of conspiratorial shenanigans. Espionage 101, if you will. But you'll have none of it, because you have decided that there was only one Oswald, no matter what I or any other "clown," or "disgraceful" researcher says.

Yes, she said they called him "Leon Oswald" - but then later, when she let slip they were only referring to him as "Leon" on the phone, she refused to address the question again of what he had been called the night before. That you keep avoiding that little fact, is starting to become very obvious.

Your failure to comprehend what is said to you is also showing yet again. I never said Bogard had mental health issues, I said he had a history which might lend itself to suggesting he had mental health issues. Or perhaps you just haven't read all the FBI reports about his constant non-existent medical complaints which at least one doctor assumed might be an attempt at insurance fraud, which btw, those evil agents of the FBI actually DISpelled as a possibility. Having DISpelled that his complaints were an attempt as fraud, the possibility was open to them to suggest he had mental problems - as you claim they did with others. Instead, you claim the government sent a thug over to beat the bejeesus out of him.

I claim the alleged assault was just another false medical claim... but either way, why didn't the nefarious FBI use this doctor's report to them as an excuse to get him put in a straight jacket?

Your theory seems to be, the more unlikely something is to have happened, the greater the chance it did happen.

[Don Jeffries]

Your theory seems to be, the more unlikely something is to have happened, the greater the chance it did happen.

You mean like someone's tonsils growing back?

[Greg Parker]

Your theory seems to be, the more unlikely something is to have happened, the greater the chance it did happen.

You mean like someone's tonsils growing back?

As I have posted previous, at the time Oswald had his operation, he was under 8 and the norm was for partial removal only. The biggest risk to regrowth was to kids under 8 (when tonsils are more or less fully grown) and only partially removed. Nothing remotely unlikely about them growing back in his case.

Nice try.

Got anything on topic?

Edited April 24, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Witt could effectively communicate the Chamberlain appeasement by displaying an open umbrella (which he did NOT pump, by the way).

On what basis do you say he did not pump the umbrella? In Bronson photo the umbrella is held high in the air. In Willis photo the umbrella is held low over UM's head. That indicates to me that he pumped the umbrella, i.e. raising it high, at least once.

Ron, I think suggesting that it was being "pumped" is a stretch designed to insinuate something larger than what happened. You say he pumped the umbrella, I say it means he merely raised it once. Pesky still images. Just can't tell. We've also had people in this very forum suggest that he was twirling the umbrella around, which he was clearly not doing.

[Ron Ecker]

We've also had people in this very forum suggest that he was twirling the umbrella around, which he was clearly not doing.

Unless I'm mistaken, the umbrella can be seen rotating in the Z film. So there seem to be questions of word meaning here (raise and lower, pump, rotate, twirl).

[Brian Schmidt]

There's an upcoming movie (I think it was filmed over two years ago but is still not out for general distribution) called the Umbrella Man: https://www.facebook.com/TheUmbrellaManMovie?fref=ts. There's a trailer on the website; It looks pretty entertaining. Anyway, they posted a scene on the site which has since been removed, but it seems like the main character's theory is that the umbrella man was really Witt and he fired at Kennedy through the Umbrella. The scene pointed out Marcello's connections to the Rio Grande Insurance Company, which I think has been discussed on this forum.

I've done a bit a research on Witt myself. He just passed away this past November.

[Ron Ecker]

There's an upcoming movie (I think it was filmed over two years ago but is still not out for general distribution) called the Umbrella Man: https://www.facebook.com/TheUmbrellaManMovie?fref=ts. There's a trailer on the website; It looks pretty entertaining. Anyway, they posted a scene on the site which has since been removed, but it seems like the main character's theory is that the umbrella man was really Witt and he fired at Kennedy through the Umbrella. The scene pointed out Marcello's connections to the Rio Grande Insurance Company, which I think has been discussed on this forum.

I've done a bit a research on Witt myself. He just passed away this past November.

Sounds like the filmmakers were waiting for Witt to die so they could release their movie.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Ron Ecker