Cliff Varnell Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 and its almost certainly the case that just about all of the lowest level operatives (i.e., the Dealey Plaza "foot soldiers")--were eliminated within 1-2 days of the shooting, if not within hours. Not to detract from David Lifton's fine analysis and invaluable longtime study, but on this point we have to consider the relative longevity of possible Dealey Plaza operatives such as the presumed spotter Jim Hicks and the supposed car salesman Jack Lawrence. Frank Sturgis? Eugene Hale Brading? People may have just been allowed to melt back into their accustomed covert lives - that and their evil satisfaction may have been their reward. With all due respect for David I think JFK was likely done in by an on-going crew whose occupation was heroin-trade assassinations. The crew prospered (in all likelihood). Let the CIA and the military and the Mob and the anti-Castro Cubans take the blame. Just because the operation may have involved guys with those backgrounds doesn't mean it was an institutional affair. I'm suggesting it was Averell Harriman at Foggy Bottom with Paul Helliwell's drug crew cat's paw. This is not my line -- wish it was but I can't remember the author right now -- "It isn't like the JFK assassination was the worst thing they did." Who occupied the highest level of civilian power in DC the afternoon of 11/22/63? Bobby Kennedy? Nope, spent the day at home making phone calls. Robert McNamara? Nope, the military never bothered to inform the Secretary of Defense the Commander in Chief had been killed, and McNamara spent the day inactive. The rest of the top Cabinet people were in the air. The State Department is first-among-equals in Presidential succession. The #2 and #3 guys at State were in charge. George Ball and W. Averell Harriman. Nothing was left to chance. Most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lifton Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 and its almost certainly the case that just about all of the lowest level operatives (i.e., the Dealey Plaza "foot soldiers")--were eliminated within 1-2 days of the shooting, if not within hours. Not to detract from David Lifton's fine analysis and invaluable longtime study, but on this point we have to consider the relative longevity of possible Dealey Plaza operatives such as the presumed spotter Jim Hicks and the supposed car salesman Jack Lawrence. Frank Sturgis? Eugene Hale Brading? People may have just been allowed to melt back into their accustomed covert lives - that and their evil satisfaction may have been their reward. With all due respect for David I think JFK was likely done in by an on-going crew whose occupation was heroin-trade assassinations. The crew prospered (in all likelihood). Let the CIA and the military and the Mob and the anti-Castro Cubans take the blame. Just because the operation may have involved guys with those backgrounds doesn't mean it was an institutional affair. I'm suggesting it was Averell Harriman at Foggy Bottom with Paul Helliwell's drug crew cat's paw. This is not my line -- wish it was but I can't remember the author right now -- "It isn't like the JFK assassination was the worst thing they did." Who occupied the highest level of civilian power in DC the afternoon of 11/22/63? Bobby Kennedy? Nope, spent the day at home making phone calls. Robert McNamara? Nope, the military never bothered to inform the Secretary of Defense the Commander in Chief had been killed, and McNamara spent the day inactive. The rest of the top Cabinet people were in the air. The State Department is first-among-equals in Presidential succession. The #2 and #3 guys at State were in charge. George Ball and W. Averell Harriman. Nothing was left to chance. Most likely. No, that is incorrect. The "highest level" --as it turns out--was Sec Def McNamara. He delegated authority to a top assistant to corral all the Oswald files; and he, himself, handled the arrival of AF-1 and the body and the car. Most importantly, McNamara issued orders that when AF-1 landed, no one else from the military would be permitted at Andrews, except for General Wehle and the honor guard. McNamara was definitely not at home making phone calls. He was at Andrews, giving orders, and supervising the return of AF-1. (I'll have much more to say about all of this in Final Charade). DSL 9/29/15 - 12:10 a.m. PDT Los Angeles, California Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) and its almost certainly the case that just about all of the lowest level operatives (i.e., the Dealey Plaza "foot soldiers")--were eliminated within 1-2 days of the shooting, if not within hours. Not to detract from David Lifton's fine analysis and invaluable longtime study, but on this point we have to consider the relative longevity of possible Dealey Plaza operatives such as the presumed spotter Jim Hicks and the supposed car salesman Jack Lawrence. Frank Sturgis? Eugene Hale Brading? People may have just been allowed to melt back into their accustomed covert lives - that and their evil satisfaction may have been their reward. With all due respect for David I think JFK was likely done in by an on-going crew whose occupation was heroin-trade assassinations. The crew prospered (in all likelihood). Let the CIA and the military and the Mob and the anti-Castro Cubans take the blame. Just because the operation may have involved guys with those backgrounds doesn't mean it was an institutional affair. I'm suggesting it was Averell Harriman at Foggy Bottom with Paul Helliwell's drug crew cat's paw. This is not my line -- wish it was but I can't remember the author right now -- "It isn't like the JFK assassination was the worst thing they did." Who occupied the highest level of civilian power in DC the afternoon of 11/22/63? Bobby Kennedy? Nope, spent the day at home making phone calls. Robert McNamara? Nope, the military never bothered to inform the Secretary of Defense the Commander in Chief had been killed, and McNamara spent the day inactive. The rest of the top Cabinet people were in the air. The State Department is first-among-equals in Presidential succession. The #2 and #3 guys at State were in charge. George Ball and W. Averell Harriman. Nothing was left to chance. Most likely. No, that is incorrect. The "highest level" --as it turns out--was Sec Def McNamara. He delegated authority to a top assistant to corral all the Oswald files; and he, himself, handled the arrival of AF-1 and the body and the car. Most importantly, McNamara issued orders that when AF-1 landed, no one else from the military would be permitted at Andrews, except for General Wehle and the honor guard. McNamara was definitely not at home making phone calls. He was at Andrews, giving orders, and supervising the return of AF-1. (I'll have much more to say about all of this in Final Charade). DSL 9/29/15 - 12:10 a.m. PDT Los Angeles, California From Ron Ecker's article, The Tokyo Flight: http://www.ronaldecker.com/tokyo.html <quote on> McNamara himself should know how he was informed, and according to his own account, he was neither buzzed by Taylor nor handed any dispatch. As incredible as it may seem, the Pentagon left its boss, right there on the premises, totally unaware of what had happened. McNamara says that in the middle of a budget meeting, "at about 2:00 P.M" (1:00 P.M. Dallas time), his secretary told him of an urgent personal call. It was from Robert Kennedy, who told him that JFK had been shot. And can we say that McNamara, finally getting the news from the President's brother, "acted quickly," to use Manchester's words? No, McNamara says that since "we simply did not know what to do," he continued with his meeting on the budget. The meeting was adjourned about 45 minutes later when a second call came from Robert Kennedy, informing McNamara that JFK was dead. In sum, the Secretary of Defense, by his own account, did not know that JFK had been shot till about half an hour after the fact (at which time he took no action whatsoever), and was not informed that the President was dead until about 45 minutes later. In neither instance did the information come from any Defense Department official inside or outside of the Pentagon, nor from any alleged copy of a news dispatch. The belated news came solely from outside calls from the President's brother. Who knows when McNamara might have learned what had happened that day in Dallas if Bobby Kennedy, who was at home in Hickory Hill, Virginia, hadn't eventually called him? <quote off> The Secretary of Defense was not informed by the military men under his command that the C-in-C was shot, and did not inform him when JFK was announced dead. Does rounding up the Oswald files and handling the return of AF1 qualify as "government action at the highest level"? From Spanning the Century: The Life of W. Averell Harriman, by Rudy Abramson, pgs 624-5: <quote on, emphasis added> Some of Averell's friends, including [Roger] Hilsman, who had heard Bob Kennedy muse about the possibility of Harriman as secretary of state, thought there was still a chance that Averell might yet get the Foggy Bottom job he long coveted. But that had been before the notorious coup cable [243 authorizing Diem coup 8/24/63]. Though the President had avoided criticism of Averell in the episode, Harriman knew Kennedy's confidence in him was shaken. After working his way to the seventh floor, he was suddenly viewed as a problem. Almost overnight, he looked ten years older. Privately, the President and the attorney general talked of finding a way to rehabilitate him, to find a job that would get him out of the Vietnam business. There was a need to put more emphasis on hemispheric matters, and the President thought that one way to solve two problems might be to create a new post of undersecretary for Latin American affairs for him. As deeply as the administration had involved itself in the machinations against Diem, Kennedy still appeared stunned when the long-anticipatred coup ended with the assassination of Diem and Nhu on November 1. The United States could technically claim that it had been a Vietnamese affair; but the administration had conditioned the atmosphere, beginning with the Harriman-Hilsman cable to Lodge. By that time, Averell was already turning more attention to hemispheric problems. The afternoon of November 22 was set a side for a meeting with oil company executives about the future of their contracts with the government in Argentina. Beforehand, he went to a Hilsman luncheon for a delegation of politicians from the Phillipines. He was finishing his dessert and talking with Senator Frank Church about extremism in American politics when Church was called to the telephone. A minute later, the senator rushed back into the room, his face ashen. The President had been shot, and was feared dead. There was a moment of silence, and then turmoil, shouted questions, and people getting up from the table to head for telephones. Averell hadn't heard, and when Church repeated the news, his reaction was that it couldn't be true. "No, sir, I'm not joking," said Church. Averell heard the shattering confirmation of Kennedy's death in George Ball's office moment later. So undone that he could only think of nothing else to do, he convened his oil meeting, but it lasted only a few minutes. When an executive tastelessly suggested an urgent approach to the new President to write the government of Argentina in behalf of American oil interests, he adjourned in disgust. He spent the afternoon helping Ball, who was, if anyone truly was, running the United States government, since Rusk and several other Cabinet members were airborne, coming home after turning back from a flight to the Far East. As darkness fell, Averell drove out to Andrews Air Force Base with Ball and Alexis Johnson, joining the official mourning party standing silently on the floodlit ramp as the President's casket was lowered from the rear door of Air Force One. The following days were a blur of meetings and trips to airports to greet delegations arriving from all over the world for the state funeral. While Rusk and Ball attended to ceremonial duties, Harriman sat down with visitors who brought urgent diplomatic problems with them--an insurgency developing against the government in the Dominican Republic, intelligence warnings of political upheaval in Brazil, and signs of new trouble between India and Pakistan over Kashmir... <quote off> Rusk and Ball -- #1 and #2 at the State Dept. -- attended ceremonial duties while #3 at State Harriman handled American foreign policy. Did Skull & Bonesman Harriman have any conversations with Skull & Bonesman McGeorge Bundy - the guy who called AF1 and the cabinet plane to inform them the lone assassin was in custody? The call to AF1 to assure LBJ the lone assassin was in custody -- that is the exercise of government power at the highest level. LBJ wasn't in the White House more than a few minutes when Harriman showed up to reportedly tell Johnson the top US government Kremlinologists were unanimous in agreement that the Soviets had nothing to do with it. But Harriman never contacted George Kennan or Charles Bohlen -- who, along with Harriman, were the top Soviet hands. Compared to the activities of Harriman and Bundy -- McNamara was an errand boy. Edited September 29, 2015 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 From David Talbot's Facebook page today (referenced photos omitted) And now, another sneak preview from "The Devil's Chessboard"...in April 1961, as President Kennedy wrestled with the CIA disaster at the Bay of Pigs in Cuba, another CIA-related crisis gripped JFK's young presidency. President Charles de Gaulle of France was threatened with a military coup by rebellious French officers based in Algeria, who were enraged by de Gaulle's decision to settle that bloody colonial war. As rebellious tank units and paratroopers prepared to descend on Paris to overthrow French democracy, de Gaulle took to the TV airwaves, and in one of the most dramatic moments in 20th century French history, the old war hero rallied his people to thwart the coup. De Gaulle was convinced that the coup was supported by the Allen Dulles-led CIA -- and the French press was filled with leaks alleging this secret U.S. involvement. But Kennedy took pains to assure de Gaulle that he did not back the coup, and in fact he offered to defend the embattled French government with U.S. military firepower. De Gaulle acknowledged that JFK himself was not behind the French officers' rebellion, but the incident made it clear to both leaders something equally ominous: Kennedy was not in charge of his own government. Two years later, after JFK's assassination, de Gaulle confided to his information minister that he believed the same U.S. security forces who had targeted him were responsible for Kennedy's death. These photos below are from President Kennedy and First Lady Jackie Kennedy's official trip to Paris, shortly after the coup attempt, when JFK tried to mend U.S. relations with de Gaulle (an effort greatly aided by Jackie's fluency in French and charm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Comments on Facebook regarding David Talbot's "sneak preview" posted above: David Talbot: Btw, this amazing story has been lost in the mists of time -- at least in America. It was widely written about by French journalists and historians (in books that were never translated or published in the U.S.) But it's been overlooked here in the U.S. Like · Reply · 3 · 1 hr .. Laurie Dusek It seems like a lot of things get "overlooked" in the U.S. Like · Reply · 3 · 1 hr .. David Talbot Yes, a lot of "mist" when it comes to the operations of US intelligence -- even CIA history dating back a half century. Like · Reply · 1 hr .. Joe Donohoe Well there is the Day of the Jackal. Like · Reply · 1 hr .. Dawn Meredith I hope Chris Matthews has you on again. This time no "Bug" to add to the attack. But these hacks will lie forever. Like · Reply · 1 hr .. David Talbot Not holding my breath when it comes to the media gatekeepers. As my book documents, the corporate media -- namely the NY Times, Washington Post, CBS, Time, Newsweek etc -- were part of the problem during the reign of Dulles. And when it comes to promoting the national security agenda, have things changed all that much in the media world today? Like · Reply · 1 hr .. Dawn Meredith No, nothing's changed. Only gotten worse, perhaps. Like · Reply · 1 hr .. David Talbot Well at least we can communicate directly through Facebook etc...for now! Like · Reply · 2 · 1 hr · Edited .. Alan Kaufman Sounds like another revelatory Talbot history of all we don't know about what we thought we knew. I'm still humming from Season of the Witch. Looking forward to the new work. Like · Reply · 1 hr .. David Talbot "The Day of the Jackal "was based on a later assassination attempt against de Gaulle by the Secret Army Organization (OAS), a rebellious faction of the French military that tried repeatedly to kill de Gaulle. But unlike JFK, de Gaulle enjoyed a solid and loyal security team, and he survived these multiple attempts on his life. Btw, "Jackal" was a great book and movie -- but as I recall there was nothing in it about U.S. intelligence support for OAS. Like · Reply · 2 · 1 hr · Edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Another great vignette from the book. I had heard about this incident before but not to the point that DeGaulle had to rally the public behind him through the air waves. Good work Dave. Edited September 30, 2015 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 From David Talbot's Facebook page today (referenced photos omitted) And now, another sneak preview from "The Devil's Chessboard"...in April 1961, as President Kennedy wrestled with the CIA disaster at the Bay of Pigs in Cuba, another CIA-related crisis gripped JFK's young presidency. President Charles de Gaulle of France was threatened with a military coup by rebellious French officers based in Algeria, who were enraged by de Gaulle's decision to settle that bloody colonial war. As rebellious tank units and paratroopers prepared to descend on Paris to overthrow French democracy, de Gaulle took to the TV airwaves, and in one of the most dramatic moments in 20th century French history, the old war hero rallied his people to thwart the coup. De Gaulle was convinced that the coup was supported by the Allen Dulles-led CIA -- and the French press was filled with leaks alleging this secret U.S. involvement. But Kennedy took pains to assure de Gaulle that he did not back the coup, and in fact he offered to defend the embattled French government with U.S. military firepower. De Gaulle acknowledged that JFK himself was not behind the French officers' rebellion, but the incident made it clear to both leaders something equally ominous: Kennedy was not in charge of his own government. Two years later, after JFK's assassination, de Gaulle confided to his information minister that he believed the same U.S. security forces who had targeted him were responsible for Kennedy's death. These photos below are from President Kennedy and First Lady Jackie Kennedy's official trip to Paris, shortly after the coup attempt, when JFK tried to mend U.S. relations with de Gaulle (an effort greatly aided by Jackie's fluency in French and charm). Douglas, Thank you for this. I can't find David Talbot's Facebook page...do you have a link? TIA, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) https://www.facebook.com/david.talbot.9440?fref=ts This link to his Facebook page may not work unless you are signed in as a member on Facebook. Edited September 30, 2015 by Douglas Caddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 https://www.facebook.com/david.talbot.9440?fref=ts This link to his Facebook page may not work unless you are signed in as a member on Facebook. Thank you, Douglas! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) http://www.amazon.com/Best-Books-of-the-Month/b/ref=sv_b_8?ie=UTF8&node=390919011 Amazon's editors select David Talbot's book as one of the best for the month of October, placing it in viewing next to Bob Woodward's new book, The Last of the President's Men. Edited October 2, 2015 by Douglas Caddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 JFK assassination: CIA and New York Times are still lying to usFifty years later, a complicit media still covers up for the security state. We need to reclaim our historyWEDNESDAY, NOV 6, 2013 01:30 PM CST HTTP://WWW.SALON.COM/2013/11/06/THE_JFK_ASSASSINATION_WE_STILL_DONT_KNOW_WHAT_HAPPENED/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 New York Magazine's trendy Vulture section has decreed that David Talbot's book is one of eight must reads this month. http://www.vulture.com/2015/10/8-books-you-need-to-read-this-october.html?om_rid=AABb8P&om_mid=_BWEtbHB9GPNs2G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 New York Magazine's trendy Vulture section has decreed that David Talbot's book is one of eight must reads this month. Boris Kachka, who created the "list" had this to say (which makes me think he didn't really read them but I guess it's hard to read eight new books a month and have time to comprehend them as well): The Salon founder's best-known book, Brothers, found no convincing evidence of a Kennedy assassination conspiracy, and neither does this one, even though it centers on the powerful CIA director whom JFK fired and LBJ later appointed to the Warren Commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) David Talbot posted today on his Facebook page: This epigraph with which I start "The Devil's Chessboard" neatly sums up the modus operandi of CIA spymaster Allen Dulles, whose dark shadow continues to hang over America. It's from one of my favorite spy novels, "A Coffin for Dimitrios," by Eric Ambler: "The Colonel laughed unpleasantly.'My dear friend, Dimitrios would have nothing to do with the actual shooting. No! His kind never risk their skins like that. They stay on the fringe of the plot. They are the professionals, the entrepreneurs, the links between the businessmen, the politicians who desire the end but are afraid of the means, and the fanatics, the idealists who are prepared to die for their convictions. The important thing to know about an assassination is not who fired the shot, but who paid for the bullet.'" Ambler wrote that a quarter century before JFK died in Dallas..but you get the point. http://www.amazon.com/Coffin-Dimitrios-Vintage-Crime-Lizard-ebook/dp/B005PRJKYU/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1444160814&sr=1-3&keywords=eric+ambler+books Edited October 6, 2015 by Douglas Caddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) I started reading it last night. He begins the book with a really well chosen, nicely sketched description of a meeting that takes place between Dulles in Switzerland during the war and a German Baron representing Himmler, who is trying to get a deal for a truce. This is after FDR had announced a policy of unconditional surrender. Dulles was willing to try and get a deal through which would preserve many of the Nazi leaders and power structure, without HItler. This is because he and his brother had made so much money off of German interestes from about the 20's all the way through the late thirties, and actually beyond, especially through IG Farben. Talbot actually calls Dulles a double agent in Bern. This is a very apropos way to start, because you have Dulles conducting his own foreign policy, which differs radically from the president's as he is dealing with people who are that president's enemies behind his back. The underlying irony is that his president is a democratically elected leader of the people, while his enemies--HImmler in this case--are not elected at all and are actually fascists. This is a nice teaser for what will happen in 1963. Very nice and auspicious beginning. I will not give out anything more in fairness to the author until I print my review at CTKA. Lisa Pease will be reviewing for Consortium. Edited October 7, 2015 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now