David Talbot: Allen Dulles, CIA and Rise of America's Secret Government

[Cliff Varnell]

I see BOP as another operation right out of their 1950's third world playbook, with deception and vaudevillian magician tricks plus Northwoods-like pretext plots designed to induce a military invasion for pure economic objectives.

This is the official unofficial narrative on the Bay of Pigs.

And this deeply evilly master-minded plot to induce a US invasion hinged on Charlie Cabell calling Kennedy at 4:30 in the morning to beg for a military action which contradicted US law?

I can't buy this, not for the life of me...

[Cliff Varnell]

<quote on>

"We shall no longer have a Department of State that deals with foreign policy in an aloof cloister, a defense establishment that makes military appraisals in a vacuum; a Mutual Security Administration that, with sovereign independence, spends billions overseas. We must bring the dozens of agencies and bureaus into concerted action under an overall scheme of strategy ..."---

<quote off>

Dwight Eisenhower campaign speech, 8 Oct 1952, emphasis added

The Mutual Security Agency -- formed by the Mutual Security Act of 1951 -- took over from the Marshall Plan for the rebuilding of Europe as a bulwark against communism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Security_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Security_Agency

Ike beefed over the fact the MSA spent billions with no over-sight whatsoever.

Who was the Director of Mutual Security?

W. Averell Harriman, the American for whom the word "sovereign" most applied.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, I just started reading John Newman's new book.

I am only about fifty or so pages into it, but there is already a bombshell.

The FBi had some really potent information on Nixon that was dual sourced.

One reason that Nixon was so intent on seeing the BOP succeed was that he had been cut in on some of the Mafia skim through Batista. The man who was the intermediary for him was none other than Bebe Rebozo.

What makes this so interesting is that during the Taylor Commission hearings, when they interviewed some of the actual Cubans, they complained that too many of the exiles were former followers of Batista.

Was Nixon planning on replacing his source of illicit funds?

Edited August 31, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Gene Kelly]

Cliff:

I'm OK with Dulles being an employee. I also understand that W. Averell Harriman was the senior statesman of the day... keen on 1950's imperialism and Vietnam. The BOP facts (simply stated) are:

• BOP started out small and ended up larger and more ambitious
• It was Ike's baby and Nixon was the original executive sponsor
• JFK made Nixon look bad challenging him in televised debates about details he couldn't discuss
• Kennedy inherited a bag of worms and unsuccessfully tried to tone it down or turn it off
• The knowledgeable tactical commanders didn't want to go forward but were over-ruled
• Dulles distanced himself (literally) from the game-day decisions and calls
• The entire thing smacks of a provocation (to Castro) and a pretext (i.e. entrapment) for invasion
• JFK didn't buy it, and he realized that he was being duped. He fired responsible CIA executives.
• I'm told that Kennedy's purged everyone remotely related to Dulles and his family... Corsican-like
• The air cover story is a simplification and a convenient excuse to lay upon (i.e. tar-baby) JFK
• The people who tried to make BOP happen didn't get mad; they got even with JFK (imho)

Gene

[Cliff Varnell]

Cliff:

I'm OK with Dulles being an employee. I also understand that W. Averell Harriman was the senior statesman of the day... keen on 1950's imperialism and Vietnam. The BOP facts (simply stated) are:

• BOP started out small and ended up larger and more ambitious
• It was Ike's baby and Nixon was the original executive sponsor
• JFK made Nixon look bad challenging him in televised debates about details he couldn't discuss
• Kennedy inherited a bag of worms and unsuccessfully tried to tone it down or turn it off
• The knowledgeable tactical commanders didn't want to go forward but were over-ruled
• Dulles distanced himself (literally) from the game-day decisions and calls
• The entire thing smacks of a provocation (to Castro) and a pretext (i.e. entrapment) for invasion
• JFK didn't buy it, and he realized that he was being duped. He fired responsible CIA executives.
• I'm told that Kennedy's purged everyone remotely related to Dulles and his family... Corsican-like
• The air cover story is a simplification and a convenient excuse to lay upon (i.e. tar-baby) JFK
• The people who tried to make BOP happen didn't get mad; they got even with JFK (imho)

Gene

Gene, I high-lighted the only area of disagreement.

Alleged "entrapment" consisted of a middle of the night call from an underling.

I don't find this a plausible strategy -- Dulles bowing out & leaving it to an underling to pressure Kennedy into action.

It looks more plausible that Rusk toned the operation down so successfully it had to fail.

Lucky thing they were found out early, sez Joe K.

Gene, have you taken any of this into consideration?

http://cryptome.org/0001/bruce-lovett.htm

[Cliff Varnell]

Robert Lovett worked for Brown Brothers Harriman.

Lovett was a child-hood friend of Averell Harriman -- Lovett's dad worked for Ave's dad.

Harriman was Skull & Bones 1913, Lovett Skull & Bones 1918.

2 of the 6 "Wise Men."

But Robert Lovett hated Allen Dulles and wanted to get rid of him while Averell Harriman had every reason to love Dulles and the CIA's cowboy ways.

As Governor of New York (entered office 1955 to 1959) Harriman appointed a Frank Costello associate as New York Secretary of State, coincidentally coinciding with a mass infusion of heroin into poor neighborhoods up and down the Eastern seaboard.

https://libcom.org/library/5-working-class-heroin-use-1950-1970

<quote on>

This means that blacks continue today to be more likely to be arrested for drug offenses than whites but that the margin between them is diminishing (Helmer 1974).

The development is an important one to record, for we have become accustomed to thinking of heroin use as primarily an inner-city black problem. (Wald et al. 1972), when in fact this has been a rather short-lived (1950-60) feature of the more stable class phenomenon - as short lived, for example as the Jewish heroin problem (1910-20).

<quote off>

Black veins mattered. In the 80's it was crack and black lungs mattered. A holocaust by another means.

Tons of heroin flowed thru New York while Harriman was guv and the mobbed up Carmine DeSapio was NYSofS.

Hard to believe shrewd guys like that didn't get a cut.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[James DiEugenio]

https://www.corbettreport.com/episode-307-meet-allen-dulles-fascist-spymaster/

The world is finally catching up with what the JFK community always knew.

[David Andrews]

Hard to believe shrewd guys like that didn't get a cut.

Harriman's cut came firstly from Southeast Asia, which he obtained by making war. It would be interesting to evaluate Ave's career for other coincident involvement with narco-states.

[Douglas Caddy]

A rave review by Kirkus.

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/david-talbot/the-devils-chessboard/

Edited September 2, 2015 by Douglas Caddy

[James DiEugenio]

Well, as they say, you can't buy publicity like that.

Looks like Talbot will have another successful book, which is at least partly about the JFK case.

We need the counter punch also after that wall to wall whitewash at the fiftieth.

[Ramon F. Herrera]

On top of that, the other side's bench is really depleted of late.

McAdams is, let us say, having image problems.

Hi Jim:

Speaking of dumpster-level credibility, let us not forget that of Mr. Bill O'Reilly. He and prof. McAdams are in many respects, inseparable.

See how the following two wise men arrived at the same conclusion:

[Prof. Jay Rosen, from the scholar point of view:]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Ux5rdBu1c

[Jon Stewart, very succinct, from the humorist point of view:]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iliH-67pvyk&feature=youtu.be

-Ramon

[Douglas Caddy]

https://www.corbettreport.com/episode-307-meet-allen-dulles-fascist-spymaster/

[James DiEugenio]

That is actually a fairly good show on Allen Dulles by Corbett.

The stuff on the Dulles brothers dealing with Nazis is especially interesting.

[Steven Gaal]

You mention the British using Lansky to achieve their globalist dreams. How did they get Lansky on their side?

We have to go back, way back, to 1928, to explain this British-Lansky connection. In China, there were three large triads, or gangs, exporting narcotics. Originally, the Kuo Ming Tang and Chiang Kai Shek supported these people. At the same time they were also fighting a prolonged war with the Communists. So for publicity reasons, and to get them back on the good side with the Americans who could help them in the war against the Communists, the KMT publicly went against the triads. At the same time, they made a secret deal with one of these gangs. There was some financial gain to having this narcotics export into the Far East and America, but where they were located were mostly Chinese areas and they wanted to expand and make more money. The book by Douglas Valentine indicates that a State Department man was involved in the Chinese narcotics trade. Apparently, he and other State Department people thought that helping the KMT with the drug trade was a good thing in stopping the spread of communism. Of course, they soon realized it would not be good if American diplomats and officials were caught with loads of narcotics. So they asked themselves, “Can’t we get someone else to do the job?” That is why they reached out to Lansky to be a major drug distributor. This was in the 1930s. So he was in contact with elites possibly before World War II. There is a story that he was called in to help the ONI and the OSS to protect ports in New York and help with the invasion of Sicily. Well, that’s the cover story, because he was possibly in contact with these people before the war. Before World War II and the creation of the OSS and the CIA, ONI was our major intelligence organization, and very likely they knew about Lansky and what he was doing before the war. That just makes sense.

So Lansky was an operative for the ONI, but it is possible that he was more of an operative for the British. This would explain why he helped Castro, which on the surface appears to be against his own interests. But something else was occurring at the same time. He was in contact with the very elites and owners of the Bahamas. Now someone could say that he was just setting that up as a safety valve. But the deeper view is that he knew that Castro was going to win. That’s what his masters, the British, wanted. The British helped him set up his operations in the Bahamas. By the way, in 1961 the British changed their laws on casinos and gambling and by 1964 Lansky had a casino in London. Isn't that amazing?

We have now explained the motivations of Clay Shaw with Permindex, and Lansky working for the British to help Castro. Now let me add that in the early 1960s British Guyana was going to go communist, and the British were pulling out. Apparently Kennedy found out that the British weren’t helping set up an anti-communist regime, but they were letting a communist man take the lead in taking over that country. Now you can have more than one explanation of why the British did it, perhaps because they were pressuring Kennedy to help them with their submarine missile technology, but it does indicate that the British did not mind letting a small, Western Hemisphere country go communist. If you read “Deadly Deception” and understood what it meant, the British were just so afraid and angered of neutral America. They wanted America on its side and doing its will. Beyond the scope of this interview, if you look at what the British elite and banking system did with the creation of the Federal Reserve, and their power behind the Morgan group, you see that the British were trying to financially control America.

======

ANY ONE SEE parallel British Guyana and Cuba ????? . Britain got Polaris Submarine Technology and then started helping the USA put a anti communist government in British Guyana. Was this Coincidence or Conspiracy ??

The official view of the British Foreign Service was that arm sales to Castro prevented him from being too dependent on RUSSIA, Tito-ize Castro ,so to speak.

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Edited September 7, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[James DiEugenio]

From what I understand the release date for the Talbot book is in October.

I don't see anything else on the horizon right now.

So, he should have the airwaves and print waves pretty much to himself in November.

And without Mack, Vince, and McAdams, I don't know who else they have to bring out against him.

Maybe Willens or Slawson, but they would both be in wheelchairs.

The point is that none of them knew anything about Dulles. Except what he wanted them to know. It looks like Talbot has done some real work on the subject. And its a very tough subject. As Corbett said above, there really is not a satisfactory biography on the man. The Grose book is more or less an official biography. Kinzer--who wrote about the brothers Dulles-- worked for the NY Times. (Enough said.) The Mosley book came out too early, was about all three siblings, and did not have access to a lot of declassified documents.

So this should be the first real biography about Dulles. And boy do we need it. I have always maintained that the four people who did the most work for the WC on Kennedy's death were four of the worst people in 20th century America: Dulles, McCloy, Hoover and Ford. We finally did get exposes on Hoover, and to a lesser extent on McCloy with Kai Bird. But there had not been any real exposes on Dulles and Ford.

Well, it finally looks like we will get one on Dulles at least. Maybe Ford, will follow. And people will see that the WC never had a snowball's chance in Hades of succeeding, not with those four leading the (non) inquiry.

I mean those four made someone like Richard Russell look like a combination of Sherlock Holmes and Joan of Arc.

Edited September 7, 2015 by James DiEugenio