Ruth Paine

[Paul Trejo]

Ruanne was not only a radiant and rare beauty, but also extremely intelligent. She studied psychology before becoming a doctor specializing in autoimmune diseases from memory. I'm certain she was misreading Lee. But I'm equally certain she knew her mother, Ruth Paine and Marina were in another room for almost the entire visit.

Ruanne Klppfer was one of the daughters of Mrs. Ruth Klopfer, who visited the Oswalds in NOLA at the request of Ruth Paine.

Ruth Paine was concerned that Marina Oswald, now eight months pregnant, was lonely because she knew nobody else in NOLA who could speak Russian except LHO.

So, when Ruth arrived in NOLA on 20 September 1963, she called the Quaker Church in NOLA seeking friends who spoke Russian to offer Marina some normal social interaction. There were no Quakers in NOLA who could speak Russian, but one of them knew a Unitarian lady who spoke Russian. So, Ruth called her -- it was Mrs. Ruth Klopfer.

Ruth Paine asked Mrs. Klopfer for an act of Christian charity -- simply to visit a lonely person and offer her some normal hospitality. Mrs. Klopfer agreed, and also brought along her two college-age daughters, one of whom had been to the USSR recently on a scholarship, and had a scrapbook of photographs to share.

The Klopfer family visited the Oswalds for about an hour. According to the testimony of Ruth Paine, LHO was the host of the party, and had gone shopping for snacks and drinks for them, and personally served them all. LHO engaged in the Russian conversation as well. Ruth Paine was impressed at the good manners of LHO -- he actually had some social graces.

For one thing, said Ruth Paine, LHO commented on almost every photograph in the daughter's scrapbook. (I don't know if that was Ruanne or her sister.) He would say things like, "We've been to that site, haven't we Marina?" and "Oh, we remember that!" Ruth Paine changed her attitude about LHO on that day. She had thought of LHO as a sullen boor until that day, and she suddenly saw hope on the horizon.

LHO was clearly grateful for the help that Ruth Paine was offering them that September -- to register Marina Oswald at Parkland Hospital in Dallas in their Maternity Ward program. LHO showed his gratitude by being the "perfect host," if not to the Klopfers, then certainly to Ruth Paine, who remarked to the Warren Commission about LHO's major change in attitude that week.

Ruth says little more about that party, so we don't know how the full hour developed. Very possibly Marina Oswald spent more time with Mrs. Klopfer, who spoke Russian more fluently than her daughters. It is not impossible that the party broke up with the older women in the kitchen, and LHO leering at the teenager girls. It is equally possible that LHO's fawning over "every photograph in her scrapbook" might have been misinterpreted by one of the daughters as flirting. We don't know for sure.

What is important, though, isn't so much whether LHO was remembered fondly by the Klopfers, but only that Ruth Paine's testimony holds up under scrutiny. PROBE magazine authors have opined that Ruth Klopfer was an FBI agent, helping Ruth Paine to isolate Marina from LHO. Nothing of the kind.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited December 30, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Ruanne was not only a radiant and rare beauty, but also extremely intelligent. She studied psychology before becoming a doctor specializing in autoimmune diseases from memory. I'm certain she was misreading Lee. But I'm equally certain she knew her mother, Ruth Paine and Marina were in another room for almost the entire visit.

Ruanne Klppfer was one of the daughters of Mrs. Ruth Klopfer, who visited the Oswalds in NOLA at the request of Ruth Paine.

Ruth Paine was concerned that Marina Oswald, now eight months pregnant, was lonely because she knew nobody else in NOLA who could speak Russian except LHO.

So, when Ruth arrived in NOLA on 20 September 1963, she called the Quaker Church in NOLA seeking friends who spoke Russian to offer Marina some normal social interaction. There were no Quakers in NOLA who could speak Russian, but one of them knew a Unitarian lady who spoke Russian. So, Ruth called her -- it was Mrs. Ruth Klopfer.

Ruth Paine asked Mrs. Klopfer for an act of Christian charity -- simply to visit a lonely person and offer her some normal hospitality. Mrs. Klopfer agreed, and also brought along her two college-age daughters, one of whom had been to the USSR recently on a scholarship, and had a scrapbook of photographs to share.

The Klopfer family visited the Oswalds for about an hour. According to the testimony of Ruth Paine, LHO was the host of the party, and had gone shopping for snacks and drinks for them, and personally served them all. LHO engaged in the Russian conversation as well. Ruth Paine was impressed at the good manners of LHO -- he actually had some social graces.

For one thing, said Ruth Paine, LHO commented on almost every photograph in the daughter's scrapbook. (I don't know if that was Ruanne or her sister.) He would say things like, "We've been to that site, haven't we Marina?" and "Oh, we remember that!" Ruth Paine changed her attitude about LHO on that day. She had thought of LHO as a sullen boor until that day, and she suddenly saw hope on the horizon.

LHO was clearly grateful for the help that Ruth Paine was offering them that September -- to register Marina Oswald at Parkland Hospital in Dallas in their Maternity Ward program. LHO showed his gratitude by being the "perfect host," if not to the Klopfers, then certainly to Ruth Paine, who remarked to the Warren Commission about LHO's major change in attitude that week.

Ruth says little more about that party, so we don't know how the full hour developed. Very possibly Marina Oswald spent more time with Mrs. Klopfer, who spoke Russian more fluently than her daughters. It is not impossible that the party broke up with the older women in the kitchen, and LHO leering at the teenager girls. It is equally possible that LHO's fawning over "every photograph in her scrapbook" might have been misinterpreted by one of the daughters as flirting. We don't know for sure.

What is important, though, isn't so much whether LHO was remembered fondly by the Klopfers, but only that Ruth Paine's testimony holds up under scrutiny. PROBE magazine authors have opined that Ruth Klopfer was an FBI agent, helping Ruth Paine to isolate Marina from LHO. Nothing of the kind.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Marina could speak English much better than she let on. Probably better than Ruth could speak Russian. Just like my first girlfriend in the Czech Republic. She learned a lot about me just listening to me in English conversation with her then-boyfriend (a Czech guy, whom I'd befriended in La Jolla a few years earlierand who was visiting her again after a long stay in the U.S.).

No reason for Marina to be lonely, unless she wanted to pretend to be.

--Tommy, the Serious

Edited December 30, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Marina could speak English much better than she let on. Probably better than Ruth could speak Russian. Just like my first girlfriend in the Czech Republic. She learned a lot about me just listening to me in English conversation with her then-boyfriend (a Czech guy, whom I'd befriended in La Jolla a few years earlierand who was visiting her again after a long stay in the U.S.).

No reason for Marina to be lonely, unless she wanted to pretend to be.

--Tommy, the Serious

That's your opinion, Tommy. The facts speak otherwise. Marina was sheltered by LHO to an uncommon degree. George De Mohrenschildt, arguably LHO's best friend in late 1962 and early 1963, remarked about the pitiful way that LHO and Marina treated each other. LHO's ban on English lessons for Marina was the top of his list.

Jeanne DeMohrenschildt herself was outraged by this rule of LHO, and she flatly contradicted LHO by openly giving Marina a set of English-learning records and a record player in early 1963. I think there's no doubt that Marina -- in between child-care and husband-care duties, would probably have listened to these records -- when LHO wasn't around.

The insecurity of LHO was obvious to George and Jeanne, but also to most of the Russian Exile community in Dallas. LHO was very jealous. George Bouhe, for example, brought lots of charity gifts to Marina, including dresses and a baby crib. LHO threatened to rip up the dresses and smash the crib. LHO didn't like the Dallas Russians acting friendly toward Marina.

In any case, Marina was also very intelligent, and a college graduate. She knew how to study. She was also immersed in an English-speaking nation, and it would be odd if she didn't begin picking up English early in 1963. Still, it's one thing to hear words and understand them, and it's quite a different matter to form one's own sentences. Everybody who learns a foreign language knows this.

Also, as most people know, one can take three years of Spanish classes in high-school, and then visit Mexico and fail to engage in a single conversation. Book-learning just doesn't suffice for a real life, conversational foreign language. It not only takes years of study, but also PRACTICE and especially IMMERSION PRACTICE.

By the end of 1963 Marina Oswald knew enough English to follow other people's conversations, and she tried to speak English, but her English was horrible. Luckily, the FBI gave her a private translator who was also a full-time tutor (which is what Ruth Paine hoped to get from Marina) for this sort of IMMERSION and feedback.

After the JFK murder, when the FBI and the Secret Service were with Marina Oswald full-time, Ilya Mamantov, Russian translator, helped Marina with every single sentence, every single clause, every nuance of English conversation. The discussion about the JFK murder was continual, so in late 1963, Marina Oswald developed a working vocabulary in English about it.

One can still see, however, in her 1964 testimony for the Warren Commission, that she still misunderstood nuances of questions, and her own sentence structure was broken in several places. She spoke a fairly good broken English by January 1964 -- better than most people could do in such a short time. However, as I say, she had a full-time, professional tutor and translator by her side at all times during the Warren Commission testimony.

There are rumors that Marina Oswald was a KGB spy, and that she had mastered English in high-school. These are science-fiction rumors, looking for movie deals. Marina Oswald was married when still a teenager -- a teenager who had earned a college degree in pharmacology. Marina did not study English in college -- she studied pharmacy. She was good at it.

Marina was fooled by LHO, who had income from the Red Cross almost equal to his paycheck from the radio factory, and lived in the newest and nicest apartment complex in Minsk. She thought LHO was rich and sophisticated. When they moved to the USA, her bubble burst. LHO could hardly hold down a minimum-wage job. Also, he was insanely jealous and beat her because of it, according to Marina and also to George Bouhe and others in the Dallas Russian community.

Marina had to hurry to learn English -- and she was no slouch. She probably understood some English long before she could speak it. Still, even to this day, her command of English vocabulary is halting and unsophisticated.

Ruth Paine, by the way, is a good source about this. Ruth didn't seek to speak to Marina in English, or to teach Marina English, but was more interested in making Marina's life easy as a Russian speaker in the USA. Ruth wanted to show Marina that Americans could be friendly to Russian speakers. At the same time Ruth did converse with Marina about the need to learn to speak English eventually. In those conversations, said Ruth, Marina would complain that she needed time and leisure to learn a new language, and her life was too chaotic, with one baby in her arms and another baby on the way, and her husband continually moving residences and getting fired from his jobs.

Carol Hewett, by the way, put a sinister spin to this. By failing to teach Marina English, she claims, Ruth Paine could keep Marina in the dark, and could have conversations with LHO in English in Marina's presence without Marina knowing what was said. So, Carol opines, Ruth Paine and LHO conspired to keep Marina English-ignorant. Again, this is mere fiction.

Ruth Paine notes that Marina was a clearly intelligent pharmacist, who kept putting off learning English, but keeping in the back of her mind that to live in the USA, she must one day learn to speak English. Sadly, it took the murder of JFK and the tutelage of the FBI and Secret Service to make that happen for Marina Oswald.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited December 30, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Greg Parker]

Ruanne was not only a radiant and rare beauty, but also extremely intelligent. She studied psychology before becoming a doctor specializing in autoimmune diseases from memory. I'm certain she was misreading Lee. But I'm equally certain she knew her mother, Ruth Paine and Marina were in another room for almost the entire visit.

Ruanne Klppfer was one of the daughters of Mrs. Ruth Klopfer, who visited the Oswalds in NOLA at the request of Ruth Paine.

Ruth Paine was concerned that Marina Oswald, now eight months pregnant, was lonely because she knew nobody else in NOLA who could speak Russian except LHO.

So, when Ruth arrived in NOLA on 20 September 1963, she called the Quaker Church in NOLA seeking friends who spoke Russian to offer Marina some normal social interaction. There were no Quakers in NOLA who could speak Russian, but one of them knew a Unitarian lady who spoke Russian. So, Ruth called her -- it was Mrs. Ruth Klopfer.

Ruth Paine asked Mrs. Klopfer for an act of Christian charity -- simply to visit a lonely person and offer her some normal hospitality. Mrs. Klopfer agreed, and also brought along her two college-age daughters, one of whom had been to the USSR recently on a scholarship, and had a scrapbook of photographs to share.

The Klopfer family visited the Oswalds for about an hour. According to the testimony of Ruth Paine, LHO was the host of the party, and had gone shopping for snacks and drinks for them, and personally served them all. LHO engaged in the Russian conversation as well. Ruth Paine was impressed at the good manners of LHO -- he actually had some social graces.

For one thing, said Ruth Paine, LHO commented on almost every photograph in the daughter's scrapbook. (I don't know if that was Ruanne or her sister.) He would say things like, "We've been to that site, haven't we Marina?" and "Oh, we remember that!" Ruth Paine changed her attitude about LHO on that day. She had thought of LHO as a sullen boor until that day, and she suddenly saw hope on the horizon.

LHO was clearly grateful for the help that Ruth Paine was offering them that September -- to register Marina Oswald at Parkland Hospital in Dallas in their Maternity Ward program. LHO showed his gratitude by being the "perfect host," if not to the Klopfers, then certainly to Ruth Paine, who remarked to the Warren Commission about LHO's major change in attitude that week.

Ruth says little more about that party, so we don't know how the full hour developed. Very possibly Marina Oswald spent more time with Mrs. Klopfer, who spoke Russian more fluently than her daughters. It is not impossible that the party broke up with the older women in the kitchen, and LHO leering at the teenager girls. It is equally possible that LHO's fawning over "every photograph in her scrapbook" might have been misinterpreted by one of the daughters as flirting. We don't know for sure.

What is important, though, isn't so much whether LHO was remembered fondly by the Klopfers, but only that Ruth Paine's testimony holds up under scrutiny. PROBE magazine authors have opined that Ruth Klopfer was an FBI agent, helping Ruth Paine to isolate Marina from LHO. Nothing of the kind.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

You're still making stuff up. Mrs Ruth Kloepfer spoke no Russian at all. It was because one of her daughter's (Karol) had been to the Soviet Union and her other daughter, Ruanne, was learning Russian, that she decided to go at all. In short, if it wasn't for her daughters, Ruth Kloepfer would have declined the offer.

That's twice now you've tried to get away with making stuff up in these few exchanges. You are beneath contempt.

[Paul Trejo]

You're still making stuff up. Mrs Ruth Kloepfer spoke no Russian at all. It was because one of her daughter's (Karol) had been to the Soviet Union and her other daughter, Ruanne, was learning Russian, that she decided to go at all. In short, if it wasn't for her daughters, Ruth Kloepfer would have declined the offer.

That's twice now you've tried to get away with making stuff up in these few exchanges. You are beneath contempt.

Actually, Greg, I didn't make that up. Ruth Paine testified that Mrs. Ruth Klopfer spoke Russian. Your insults therefore have no impact.

I'm repeating sworn testimony by Ruth Paine. I'm familiar with all of her eight appearances before the Warren Commission. Evidently, you aren't.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited December 30, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

You're still making stuff up. Mrs Ruth Kloepfer spoke no Russian at all. It was because one of her daughter's (Karol) had been to the Soviet Union and her other daughter, Ruanne, was learning Russian, that she decided to go at all. In short, if it wasn't for her daughters, Ruth Kloepfer would have declined the offer.

That's twice now you've tried to get away with making stuff up in these few exchanges. You are beneath contempt.

Actually, Greg, I didn't make that up. Ruth Paine testified that Mrs. Ruth Klopfer spoke Russian. Your insults therefore have no impact.

I'm repeating sworn testimony by Ruth Paine. I'm familiar with all of her eight appearances before the Warren Commission. Evidently, you aren't.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Dear Mr. Trejo,

Just because Ruth Paine testified that Mrs Kloepfer spoke Russian, does that mean it's true?

--Tommy, the Serious

Edited December 30, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Dear Mr. Trejo,

Just because Ruth Paine testified that Mrs Kloepfer spoke Russian, does that mean it's true?

--Tommy, the Serious

Certainly not, Mr. Graves. But it does mean that I'm not making it up!

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Dear Mr. Trejo,

Just because Ruth Paine testified that Mrs Kloepfer spoke Russian, does that mean it's true?

--Tommy, the Serious

Certainly not, Mr. Graves. But it does mean that I'm not making it up!

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Dear Mr. Trejo,

So you're admitting that Ruth might have been lying under oath?

Or that she might have somehow been mistaken about Mrs. Kloepfer's linguistic abilities?

But, how could that be?

--Tommy, the Serious

Edited December 30, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

You're still making stuff up. Mrs Ruth Kloepfer spoke no Russian at all. It was because one of her daughter's (Karol) had been to the Soviet Union and her other daughter, Ruanne, was learning Russian, that she decided to go at all. In short, if it wasn't for her daughters, Ruth Kloepfer would have declined the offer.

That's twice now you've tried to get away with making stuff up in these few exchanges. You are beneath contempt.

Actually, Greg, I didn't make that up. Ruth Paine testified that Mrs. Ruth Klopfer spoke Russian. Your insults therefore have no impact.

I'm repeating sworn testimony by Ruth Paine. I'm familiar with all of her eight appearances before the Warren Commission. Evidently, you aren't.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Mrs. PAINE - No. I have already testified that after an initial warm greeting with Lee, they quarreled, and I was uncomfortable there, and wanted to get back home. I had thought of making contact for Marina with someone in the Russian speaking community in New Orleans, and later when I didn't hear from her after this note that looks like "I will have to go back to Russia after all," I much regretted that I had not made some contact for her, someone she could talk to, herself. And anxious, not having heard from her a month from the time of this appendage to my corrected letter, I telephoned Ruth Kloepfer who is the clerk of the Quaker Meeting in New Orleans.

Mr. JENNER - Would you spell her name, please?

Mrs. PAINE - She is not someone I know. That is spelled K-L-O-E-P-F-E-R, and I asked her if she knew any Russians in New Orleans. She did not. I then wrote to Mrs. Paul Blanchard.

Kloepfer and her two daughters, both of whom spoke Russian....

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9986&search=%22ruth_kloepfer%22#relPageId=26&tab=page

Which, according to Ruanne wasn't true - she was learning Russian and Karol had been there, but did NOT speak the language. According to Ruanne, the agents did not seem interested in listening to what they were told. They apparently just wrote what they wanted.

Bottom line: you made it up that Mrs. Ruth Kloepfer spoke Russian - and then tried to bluff your way out by claiming that the information came from Ruth Paine.

I repeat - you are a disgrace and the fact that you are allowed to keep posting here is a disgrace.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Greg Parker

[James DiEugenio]

Paul, did Ruth also say the opposite?

But then, why would she say two things that are opposed to each other?

Edited December 30, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Greg Parker]

Paul, did Ruth also say the opposite?

But then, why would she say two things that are opposed to each other?

No Jim. Trejo is making it up as he goes along.

[James DiEugenio]

Well, not knowing any Russians in New Orleans is not exactly the same as not knowing Russian. Although granted, it makes perfect sense if you wanted to learn or brush up on your Russian.

So let us see what Paul comes up with.

Edited December 30, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Greg Parker]

Well, not knowing any Russians in New Orleans is not exactly the same as not knowing Russian. Although granted, it takes perfect sense if you wanted to learn or brush up on your Russian.

So let us see what Paul comes up with.

Yes. My fault. I didn't give the full quote from the testimony:

Mr. JENNER - Would you spell her name, please?

Mrs. PAINE - She is not someone I know. That is spelled K-L-O-E-P-F-E-R, and I asked her if she knew any Russians in New Orleans. She did not. I then wrote to Mrs. Paul Blanchard.

Mr. JENNER - Excuse me, when you use the pronoun "she" there you asked Marina?

Mrs. PAINE - I asked Mrs. Kloepfer if she knew any Russian-speaking people and described why I was interested in knowing. I must have given her the address of Marina, probably asked that she go and see her. In any case, I have a letter which followed that telephone call, which I wrote to Mrs. Paul Blanchard.

Again - it was because Ruanne was learning Russian and Karol had been to the Soviet Union that they all visited. Mrs Ruth Kloepfer never spoke Russian and Ruth Paine never claimed she did.

This document clearly states that Mrs. Ruth K made a preliminary visit on her own and that Lee translated her conversation with Marina.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9986&search=%22ruth_kloepfer%22#relPageId=26&tab=page

You'll be waiting a long time for Trejo to provide the evidence to back his statements. There is none.

[James DiEugenio]

I would say the document is pretty good as evidence.

Let us await Paul's reply.

[Paul Trejo]

Mrs. PAINE - No. I have already testified that after an initial warm greeting with Lee, they quarreled, and I was uncomfortable there, and wanted to get back home. I had thought of making contact for Marina with someone in the Russian speaking community in New Orleans, and later when I didn't hear from her after this note that looks like "I will have to go back to Russia after all," I much regretted that I had not made some contact for her, someone she could talk to, herself. And anxious, not having heard from her a month from the time of this appendage to my corrected letter, I telephoned Ruth Kloepfer who is the clerk of the Quaker Meeting in New Orleans.

Mr. JENNER - Would you spell her name, please?

Mrs. PAINE - She is not someone I know. That is spelled K-L-O-E-P-F-E-R, and I asked her if she knew any Russians in New Orleans. She did not. I then wrote to Mrs. Paul Blanchard.

Kloepfer and her two daughters, both of whom spoke Russian....

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9986&search=%22ruth_kloepfer%22#relPageId=26&tab=page

Which, according to Ruanne wasn't true - she was learning Russian and Karol had been there, but did NOT speak the language. According to Ruanne, the agents did not seem interested in listening to what they were told. They apparently just wrote what they wanted.

Bottom line: you made it up that Mrs. Ruth Kloepfer spoke Russian - and then tried to bluff your way out by claiming that the information came from Ruth Paine.

I repeat - you are a disgrace and the fact that you are allowed to keep posting here is a disgrace.

You're mistaken on one count there, Greg. First, Ruth Paine in her first paragraph you quoted, was speaking about the first time that she visited NOLA, that is, when she dropped Marina Oswld off in NOLA in early May, 1963. At that time, Marina Oswald expressed her sharp disapproval of the roach-infested apartment that LHO had found for them.

The Oswalds bickered so much during that visit in May, 1963, that although Ruth Paine spent the night in NOLA with the Oswalds, she felt very uncomfortable and unwelcome there.

So, Greg, you're confusing dates and events.

OTOH, after reviewing Ruth Paine's actual testimony, you're right. Mrs. Ruth Kloepfer spoke no Russian. Her daughters were learning Russian, and to be friendly, she brought her daughters to visit Marina Oswald.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited January 28, 2016 by Paul Trejo