Great New Movie Spells out the Case for Oswald as Prayer Man

[Robert Prudhomme]

Tommy Graves: if Baker & Truly were on the 2nd-floor landing while Adams & Styles were somewhere on the 3rd-floor landing, was there enough time for Truly to get inside the lunchroom before he could be seen by Adams & Styles, given that Truly had apparently continued straight ahead and started walking up the stairs to the 3rd floor, and then, realizing that Baker was no longer behind him, gone back down and entered the lunchroom himself?

Truly testified he "was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me." He absolutely had time to get into the vestibule, and then mosey up to the lunchroom doorframe (with the vestibule door automatically closing a few seconds after he proceeded through the vestibule doorframe), before the young ladies arrived on the 2nd-floor landing.

I don't think that it matters much whether Truly ever realized the young ladies were just up ahead of him. I strongly suspect he was laying a trap for Baker- that he knew Oswald was at the vestibule door, and that Baker would most likely find that suspicious, being that deep in the building, far from the parade.

Truly's plan for a quickly-arriving cop was to get him in the lunchroom while the west elevator descended, and it worked to perfection. But Baker was so fast in his response, 15 seconds faster than anticipated, that Truly was forced into hyperdrive. This "perfection" may seem like circular logic, but more closely resembles a well-designed football play. Their mad dash to the freight elevators & 2nd-floor landing was over and done by as little as 50 seconds after the head shots.

Thanks, Richard.

--Tommy

Wow! And you think my theories are strange....

[Thomas Graves]

"SENATOR COOPER - Did you see anyone else while you were in the building, other than this man you have identified later as Oswald, and Mr. Truly?

Mr. BAKER - On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us."

So much for "the-women-were-seen-but-Baker-was-looking-for-a-man" theory.

Non sequitur, Bobby.

Your "logic" amazes me sometimes.

--Tommy

PS I didn't say that Baker saw Adams and Styles on the second floor. I said he may have heard the distinctive sound of their 3" heels coming down the stairs.

Regardless, don't you think most people back in 1963 would have automatically assumed that the sniper was a man? That's why I said Baker was looking for a man. Geez.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy Graves: if Baker & Truly were on the 2nd-floor landing while Adams & Styles were somewhere on the 3rd-floor landing, was there enough time for Truly to get inside the lunchroom before he could be seen by Adams & Styles, given that Truly had apparently continued straight ahead and started walking up the stairs to the 3rd floor, and then, realizing that Baker was no longer behind him, gone back down and entered the lunchroom himself?

Truly testified he "was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me." He absolutely had time to get into the vestibule, and then mosey up to the lunchroom doorframe (with the vestibule door automatically closing a few seconds after he proceeded through the vestibule doorframe), before the young ladies arrived on the 2nd-floor landing.

I don't think that it matters much whether Truly ever realized the young ladies were just up ahead of him. I strongly suspect he was laying a trap for Baker- that he knew Oswald was at the vestibule door, and that Baker would most likely find that suspicious, being that deep in the building, far from the parade.

Truly's plan for a quickly-arriving cop was to get him in the lunchroom while the west elevator descended, and it worked to perfection. But Baker was so fast in his response, 15 seconds faster than anticipated, that Truly was forced into hyperdrive. This "perfection" may seem like circular logic, but more closely resembles a well-designed football play. Their mad dash to the freight elevators & 2nd-floor landing was over and done by as little as 50 seconds after the head shots.

Thanks, Richard.

--Tommy

Wow! And you think my theories are strange....

Yes I do, Bob. Very strange.

--Tommy

Edited December 15, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Tommy Graves: if Baker & Truly were on the 2nd-floor landing while Adams & Styles were somewhere on the 3rd-floor landing, was there enough time for Truly to get inside the lunchroom before he could be seen by Adams & Styles, given that Truly had apparently continued straight ahead and started walking up the stairs to the 3rd floor, and then, realizing that Baker was no longer behind him, gone back down and entered the lunchroom itself?

Truly testified he "was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me." He absolutely had time to get into the vestibule, and then mosey up to the lunchroom doorframe (with the vestibule door automatically closing a few seconds after he proceeded through the vestibule doorframe), before the young ladies arrived on the 2nd-floor landing.

I don't think that it matters much whether Truly ever realized the young ladies were just up ahead of him. I strongly suspect he was laying a trap for Baker- that he knew Oswald was at the vestibule door, and that Baker would most likely find that suspicious, being that deep in the building, far from the parade.

Truly's plan for a quickly-arriving cop was to get him in the lunchroom while the west elevator descended, and it worked to perfection. But Baker was so fast in his response, 15 seconds faster than anticipated, that Truly was forced into hyperdrive. This "perfection" may seem like circular logic, but more closely resembles a well-designed football play. Their mad dash to the freight elevators & 2nd-floor landing was over and done by as little as 50 seconds after the head shots.

I think you are forgetting that many employees related that the wooden stairs in the TSBD were in quite bad repair, to the point the managers had asked the employees to minimize their use of them. As many treads were loose, it was also reported that the stairs were extremely noisy, and that it was possible to hear someone coming toward you on the stairs a long ways off. I find it hard to believe Truly or Baker would not have heard two women in 3" heels coming toward and past them at high speed.

Aside from that, just how long do you think Truly was in the lunch room? Automatic door closers are not that fast, and I think Truly would have ID'ed LHO even before the door had a chance to close, and B & T were gone as soon as Truly okayed LHO.

Dear Robert,

I think the point is that Adams and Styles may not have been able to hear Baker and Truly coming up. The point is not that bad guy Truly was (probably) able to hear Adams and Styles coming down in their 3" heels. The theory is that innocent. naiive Baker was already inside the lunch room confronting Oswald, and that even if he did hear Adams and Styles, didn't concern himself with them because they were obviously women (wearing those noisy 3" heels) and he was looking for a man.

--Tommy

Wrong. Read Baker's testimony. He testified that he did not actually go into the lunch room. Rather, he stood in the doorway of the lunch room, still standing in the vestibule, and called LHO back to him from within the lunch room..

Then read Truly's testimony. According to his testimony, he did NOT go through the vestibule door and allow it to close behind him. Rather, he opened the door and leaned in, and was only in this position long enough to exchange five words with Baker before they returned to the stairs.

Now, isn't it funny that Victoria Adams never mentioned, in her testimony to the WC, that she went through the 2nd floor landing and saw Roy Truly leaning through an open vestibule doorway, and that there was a big old cop holding a gun on Lee Harvey Oswald just on the other side of him?

Edited December 8, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Thomas Graves]

The other two "witnesses" who testified to seeing Baker and Truly run up the steps of the TSBD, 15-22 seconds after the last shot, are Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady. As everyone knows, they were standing on the upper landing of the front steps of the TSBD.

[...]

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

"As everybody knows"?

What a joke.

Ever heard of the Couch / Darnell GIFs?

Who do you think those two guy are, walking down and then across Elm Street Extension?

Abbot and Costello?

--Tommy

At what point do you see them crossing the extension?

I've already told you Bob. But you said that that very short GIF I posted for you was "vague."

Remember?

Maybe you weren't wearing your glasses. Or maybe it's just that I'm able to see things you aren't able to see? Like that possible "Gloria Calvery" by the Thornton Freeway sign in Altgens 6, or Roy Truly off to the right of the steps in Wiegman, not far from Jeraldean Reid? For example?

So let's not argue about it ok? Because it's just too darn ... "vague." Isn't it.

--Tommy

PS But I do have a confession for you, of sorts. In that "vague," very short GIF which I posted for you a few days ago, it looks to me as though Shelley is crossing Elm Street Extension, while maybe, just maybe, Lovelady continues walking towards the railway yard / parking lot. It's too hard to tell, but gosh ... wouldn't that be exciting?!

bumped for Prudhomme

[Robert Prudhomme]

"SENATOR COOPER - Did you see anyone else while you were in the building, other than this man you have identified later as Oswald, and Mr. Truly?

Mr. BAKER - On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us."

So much for "the-women-were-seen-but-Baker-was-looking-for-a-man" theory.

Non sequitur, Bobby.

Your "logic" amazes me sometimes.

--Tommy

PS I didn't say that Baker saw Adams and Styles on the second floor. I said he may have heard the distinctive sound of their 3" heels coming down the stairs.

Regardless, don't you think most people back in 1963 would have automatically assumed that the sniper was a man? That's why I said Baker was looking for a man. Geez.

Thomas

You are grasping at straws. Now that it is clear Truly did not go through the vestibule door and allow it to close behind him, there is no way Truly, Styles and Adams could not have seen and heard each other. As I said, Truly, by his own testimony, could not have been leaning through that door for more than 5 seconds.

[Thomas Graves]

"SENATOR COOPER - Did you see anyone else while you were in the building, other than this man you have identified later as Oswald, and Mr. Truly?

Mr. BAKER - On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us."

So much for "the-women-were-seen-but-Baker-was-looking-for-a-man" theory.

Non sequitur, Bobby.

Your "logic" amazes me sometimes.

--Tommy

PS I didn't say that Baker saw Adams and Styles on the second floor. I said he may have heard the distinctive sound of their 3" heels coming down the stairs.

Regardless, don't you think most people back in 1963 would have automatically assumed that the sniper was a man? That's why I said Baker was looking for a man. Geez.

Thomas

You are grasping at straws. Now that it is clear Truly did not go through the vestibule door and allow it to close behind him, there is no way Truly, Styles and Adams could not have seen and heard each other. As I said, Truly, by his own testimony, could not have been leaning through that door for more than 5 seconds.

That's you opinion, Bobby.

You're entitled to it.

--Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy Graves: if Baker & Truly were on the 2nd-floor landing while Adams & Styles were somewhere on the 3rd-floor landing, was there enough time for Truly to get inside the lunchroom before he could be seen by Adams & Styles, given that Truly had apparently continued straight ahead and started walking up the stairs to the 3rd floor, and then, realizing that Baker was no longer behind him, gone back down and entered the lunchroom itself?

Truly testified he "was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me." He absolutely had time to get into the vestibule, and then mosey up to the lunchroom doorframe (with the vestibule door automatically closing a few seconds after he proceeded through the vestibule doorframe), before the young ladies arrived on the 2nd-floor landing.

I don't think that it matters much whether Truly ever realized the young ladies were just up ahead of him. I strongly suspect he was laying a trap for Baker- that he knew Oswald was at the vestibule door, and that Baker would most likely find that suspicious, being that deep in the building, far from the parade.

Truly's plan for a quickly-arriving cop was to get him in the lunchroom while the west elevator descended, and it worked to perfection. But Baker was so fast in his response, 15 seconds faster than anticipated, that Truly was forced into hyperdrive. This "perfection" may seem like circular logic, but more closely resembles a well-designed football play. Their mad dash to the freight elevators & 2nd-floor landing was over and done by as little as 50 seconds after the head shots.

I think you are forgetting that many employees related that the wooden stairs in the TSBD were in quite bad repair, to the point the managers had asked the employees to minimize their use of them. As many treads were loose, it was also reported that the stairs were extremely noisy, and that it was possible to hear someone coming toward you on the stairs a long ways off. I find it hard to believe Truly or Baker would not have heard two women in 3" heels coming toward and past them at high speed.

Aside from that, just how long do you think Truly was in the lunch room? Automatic door closers are not that fast, and I think Truly would have ID'ed LHO even before the door had a chance to close, and B & T were gone as soon as Truly okayed LHO.

Dear Robert,

I think the point is that Adams and Styles may not have been able to hear Baker and Truly coming up. The point is not that bad guy Truly was (probably) able to hear Adams and Styles coming down in their 3" heels. The theory is that innocent. naiive Baker was already inside the lunch room confronting Oswald, and that even if he did hear Adams and Styles, didn't concern himself with them because they were obviously women (wearing those noisy 3" heels) and he was looking for a man.

--Tommy

Wrong. Read Baker's testimony. He testified that he did not actually go into the lunch room. Rather, he stood in the doorway of the lunch room, still standing in the vestibule, and called LHO back to him from within the lunch room..

Then read Truly's testimony. According to his testimony, he did NOT go through the vestibule door and allow it to close behind him. Rather, he opened the door and leaned in, and was only in this position long enough to exchange five words with Baker before they returned to the stairs.

Now, isn't it funny that Victoria Adams never mentioned, in her testimony to the WC, that she went through the 2nd floor landing and saw Roy Truly leaning through an open vestibule doorway, and that there was a big old cop holding a gun on Lee Harvey Oswald just on the other side of him?

Dear Robert,

From his testimony, it sounds like Baker stood inside the enclosed "vestibule" which was between the second floor itself, and the lunch room proper. The vestibule's outer door could have closed behind him. Even if it hadn't, it would have been difficult for Adams and Styles to see him and Truly unless they happened to look in that direction as they were scurrying towards the next flight of downward-leading stairs which was very close to where they "landed" on the second floor. So close, in fact, that they were probably on the second floor landing for only two or three seconds. They were concentrating on getting down stairs as quickly as possible (not wanting to turn their ankles while walking quickly in their 3' heels, they were most likely just looking at the floor in front of them), and probably didn't even look towards the vestibule / lunch room. Even if they did hear Baker's or Truly's voice, they may not have thought there was anything unusual going on in there. And as far as Baker was concerned, his attention was totally focused upon Oswald.

Floor plan of the second floor:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce497.jpg

Photo taken from a point about 10' away from the second floor's stairwells showing the lunchroom's "vestibule" door from the outside. "Warren Commission, Volume XVII: CE 498 - Photograph taken near the stairs of the second floor of the TSBD."

:

--Tommy

Edited December 8, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy Graves: if Baker & Truly were on the 2nd-floor landing while Adams & Styles were somewhere on the 3rd-floor landing, was there enough time for Truly to get inside the lunchroom before he could be seen by Adams & Styles, given that Truly had apparently continued straight ahead and started walking up the stairs to the 3rd floor, and then, realizing that Baker was no longer behind him, gone back down and entered the lunchroom itself?

Truly testified he "was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me." He absolutely had time to get into the vestibule, and then mosey up to the lunchroom doorframe (with the vestibule door automatically closing a few seconds after he proceeded through the vestibule doorframe), before the young ladies arrived on the 2nd-floor landing.

I don't think that it matters much whether Truly ever realized the young ladies were just up ahead of him. I strongly suspect he was laying a trap for Baker- that he knew Oswald was at the vestibule door, and that Baker would most likely find that suspicious, being that deep in the building, far from the parade.

Truly's plan for a quickly-arriving cop was to get him in the lunchroom while the west elevator descended, and it worked to perfection. But Baker was so fast in his response, 15 seconds faster than anticipated, that Truly was forced into hyperdrive. This "perfection" may seem like circular logic, but more closely resembles a well-designed football play. Their mad dash to the freight elevators & 2nd-floor landing was over and done by as little as 50 seconds after the head shots.

I think you are forgetting that many employees related that the wooden stairs in the TSBD were in quite bad repair, to the point the managers had asked the employees to minimize their use of them. As many treads were loose, it was also reported that the stairs were extremely noisy, and that it was possible to hear someone coming toward you on the stairs a long ways off. I find it hard to believe Truly or Baker would not have heard two women in 3" heels coming toward and past them at high speed.

Aside from that, just how long do you think Truly was in the lunch room? Automatic door closers are not that fast, and I think Truly would have ID'ed LHO even before the door had a chance to close, and B & T were gone as soon as Truly okayed LHO.

Dear Robert,

I think the point is that Adams and Styles may not have been able to hear Baker and Truly coming up. The point is not that bad guy Truly was (probably) able to hear Adams and Styles coming down in their 3" heels. The theory is that innocent. naiive Baker was already inside the lunch room confronting Oswald, and that even if he did hear Adams and Styles, didn't concern himself with them because they were obviously women (wearing those noisy 3" heels) and he was looking for a man.

--Tommy

Wrong. Read Baker's testimony. He testified that he did not actually go into the lunch room. Rather, he stood in the doorway of the lunch room, still standing in the vestibule, and called LHO back to him from within the lunch room..

Then read Truly's testimony. According to his testimony, he did NOT go through the vestibule door and allow it to close behind him. Rather, he opened the door and leaned in, and was only in this position long enough to exchange five words with Baker before they returned to the stairs.

Now, isn't it funny that Victoria Adams never mentioned, in her testimony to the WC, that she went through the 2nd floor landing and saw Roy Truly leaning through an open vestibule doorway, and that there was a big old cop holding a gun on Lee Harvey Oswald just on the other side of him?

Dear Robert,

From his testimony, it sounds like Baker stood inside the enclosed "vestibule" which was between the second floor itself, and the lunch room proper. The vestibule's outer door could have closed behind him. Even if it hadn't, it would have been difficult for Adams and Styles to see him and Truly unless they happened to look in that direction as they were scurrying towards the next flight of downward-leading stairs which was very close to where they "landed" on the second floor. So close, in fact, that they were probably on the second floor landing for only two or three seconds. They were concentrating on getting down stairs as quickly as possible (not wanting to turn their ankles while walking quickly in their 3" heels, they were most likely just looking at the floor in front of them), and probably didn't even look towards the dimly-lit vestibule door. Even if they did hear Baker's or Truly's voice, they may not have thought there was anything unusual going on in there. And as far as Baker was concerned, his attention would have been totally focused on Oswald, wouldn't it?

Floor plan of the second floor:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce497.jpg

Photo taken from a point about 10' away from the second floor's stairwells showing the lunchroom's "vestibule" door from the outside. "Warren Commission, Volume XVII: CE 498 - Photograph taken near the stairs of the second floor of the TSBD." Note that the vestibule door is illuminated by a strong flood light for photographic purposes, and that this area would have been much more dimly lit at the time of the assassination and the period of time right after it.

:

--Tommy

Edited December 8, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

Robert,

I haven't studied in detail the events you guys are discussing here in this thread. Can you tell what the motivation might have been for concocting the lunchroom encounter between Oswald and Baker?

[Vanessa Loney]

"The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway."

Vanessa, I cannot agree with your assessment that it seems "crystal clear" that Baker's affidavit implies that the encounter took place on the stairs, i.e. As we reached the third or fourth floor (of the building)... One may look through the lens of the lunchroom incident not having occurred, or having occurred, with equal ease here.

Baker was not the sharpest tack in the drawer, and even as a "trained police officer" initially wrote a statement that the lunchroom was on the "second or third floor", 6 months after his testimony, which included a couple re-enactments.

I view Fritz through the lens of being a conspirator. Baker worked in Traffic & Security, not Homicide. The person who first told Fritz about Baker very likely was Homicide's Marvin Johnson (XXIV p. 307 p. 2 line 4) who wrote a report that included a synopsis of Baker's affidavit, including (line 11): On about the 4th floor Officer Baker apprehended a man that was walking away from the stairway on that floor. Again, this can be taken either way, for or against the lunchroom incident- but nothing of necessity says we have to incorporate it into the hoax column.

The "snack bar" description for the location didn't get introduced until Truly spoke to the FBI that night. So you're putting the onus completely on Baker, 52 years after the event, that he's not smart enough to tell the difference between a stairway and a snack bar. With no allowance for Baker's characterized modest-ranged intelligence, or his having been out to Parkland and Love Field. Ever had a brief mental lapse while sitting down to compose something?

Fundamentally, I go back to the analogy I presented of placing data in the negative region of the x-y coordinate system, versus the positive region. Some of the evidence has to be bent way out of whack in order to fit into the negative region. I cited the filmed interview, the Sept. 23rd affidavit, the will-call counter bump, and the lack of corroboration for Kent Biffle's story. Let's also include the close comparison between Oswald's wedding ring left behind & Baker forgetting to mention Oswald in his first-day affidavit. In the final analysis God only knows why, and it's worthless as a definitive indicator.

I'm embarrassed for the promulgators of the hoax hypothesis, who have so much emotionally involved in being right. Brilliant people are a dime a dozen in JFK research. Correct people count for the most. The truth is most often found in the mundane, and there's no reason here to have to believe in "sexed-up" evidence. The whole back-and-forth has been productive over the years, but I'd rather not see the hoaxers dig in like Japanese soldiers on the Philippines still fighting WWII in 1950. I remind you that it will be more painful for you, when your illusion shatters, the longer you hang on.

Richard

So your case is essentially that Baker was too stupid and too confused to know that on 22 November he opened a door and walked into a room to talk to Oswald? Too stupid and confused to know that he had a discussion with Roy Truly while inside that room and then too stupid and confused to know that they both left the room and went on up the stairs?

And then too stupid and confused to record all of that in his same day statement?

This is your key witness to the second floor lunchroom encounter.

And your case is that even though Baker got all this wrong his later recollection of the second floor lunchroom encounter can be relied upon as absolute fact.

Why?

[Ray Mitcham]

The lunch room encounter story is a farce.

This is what happened according to Baker's first day affidavit.

"Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket."

No mention of a lunch room. He saw a man walking away from the stairway. A totally different story to his later fiction.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Dear Robert,

From his testimony, it sounds like Baker stood inside the enclosed "vestibule" which was between the second floor itself, and the lunch room proper. The vestibule's outer door could have closed behind him. Even if it hadn't, it would have been difficult for Adams and Styles to see him and Truly unless they happened to look in that direction as they were scurrying towards the next flight of downward-leading stairs which was very close to where they "landed" on the second floor. So close, in fact, that they were probably on the second floor landing for only two or three seconds. They were concentrating on getting down stairs as quickly as possible (not wanting to turn their ankles while walking quickly in their 3' heels, they were most likely just looking at the floor in front of them), and probably didn't even look towards the vestibule / lunch room. Even if they did hear Baker's or Truly's voice, they may not have thought there was anything unusual going on in there. And as far as Baker was concerned, his attention was totally focused upon Oswald.

Floor plan of the second floor:

http://jfkassassinat...ibits/ce497.jpg

Photo taken from a point about 10' away from the second floor's stairwells showing the lunchroom's "vestibule" door from the outside. "Warren Commission, Volume XVII: CE 498 - Photograph taken near the stairs of the second floor of the TSBD."

:

--Tommy

****************************************************************************************************************

Thomas and all other members

Please carefully read the following excerpt from Roy Truly's Warren Commission testimony, and then tell me how you think Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles could have passed through the 2nd floor landing without seeing OR hearing Roy Truly and Marrion Baker, or being seen OR heard by Roy Truly or Marrion Baker:

"Mr. TRULY. I ran over and looked in this door No. 23.

Mr. BELIN. Through the glass, or was the door open?
Mr. TRULY. I don't know. I think I opened the door. I feel like I did. I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN. It could have been open or it could have been closed, you do not remember?
Mr. TRULY. The chances are it was closed.
Mr. BELIN. You thought you opened it?
Mr. TRULY. I think I opened it. I opened the door back and leaned in this way.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. TRULY. I saw the officer almost directly in the doorway of the lunch-room facing Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. And where was Lee Harvey Oswald at the time you saw him?
Mr. TRULY. He was at the front of the lunchroom, not very far inside he was just inside the lunchroom door."

Does anyone see how this contradicts Mr. Gilbride's theory that Styles and Adams slipped through the 2nd floor landing unnoticed, simply because of his erroneous belief that Truly, Baker and Oswald were in the lunch room, behind a closed vestibule door?

ROY TRULY NEVER WENT THROUGH THE VESTIBULE DOOR AND ALLOWED IT TO CLOSE BEHIND HIM!!

His own words: "I think I opened it. I opened the door back and leaned in this way." He leaned in, he didn't walk in. Why did he not go trough the 2nd door, and into the lunch room? SIMPLE, Marrion Baker was standing in the lunch room doorway, directly in front of him and holding a gun on Oswald.

Contrary to what WC apologists would have us believe, the alleged 2nd floor lunch room did not occur in the lunch room; it occurred in the vestibule between the lunch room and the 2nd floor landing. Truly would have been standing in the open vestibule doorway (see photo below) and would have been plainly visible to Adams and Styles as they passed through the landing.

At this close distance, and with Truly standing in the open doorway above, Styles and Adams could not have passed through the landing without hearing Truly and Baker, or being heard by Truly and Baker.

Do not be taken in by Thomas' weak arguments. Adams and Styles did not see anything because of the dimly lit landing? How did Baker see Oswald in the first place then, if it was so dimly lit? Baker's attention was totally focused on Oswald? Wrong again. The very second Truly opened the vestibule door and leaned in, Baker turned back to look at Truly to ask him if Oswald worked there, to which Truly answered "Yes". The very next moment, Baker and Truly departed the vestibule and continued upstairs. In other words, Truly could only have been leaning through that doorway for a few seconds. Would Baker have not been on the alert for other noises? The man had his gun drawn, and was looking for a killer. The slightest sound would have alerted him.

It is quite easy to see why the WC worked so hard to discredit the testimony of Victoria Adams, going so far as to alter her statement to the FBI to include a sighting of Shelley and Lovelady on the 1st floor that never occurred. She was the one thing that could show the 2nd floor lunch room encounter for the fabrication it was.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Robert Prudhomme]

"SENATOR COOPER - Did you see anyone else while you were in the building, other than this man you have identified later as Oswald, and Mr. Truly?

Mr. BAKER - On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us."

[Robert Prudhomme]

One more point I should make for those who think Adams and Styles could have crept through the 2nd floor landing unheard. Once again, from Roy Truly's WC testimony:

"Mr. BELIN. All right. Number 23, the arrow points to the door that has the glass in it.

Now, as you raced around, how far did you start up the stairs towards the third floor there?
Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. TRULY. I came back to the second floor landing.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24.
Mr. BELIN. All right. And I see that there appears to be on the second floor diagram, a room marked lunchroom.
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. TRULY. I ran over and looked in this door No. 23.
Mr. BELIN. Through the glass, or was the door open?
Mr. TRULY. I don't know. I think I opened the door. I feel like I did. I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN. It could have been open or it could have been closed, you do not remember?
Mr. TRULY. The chances are it was closed."

Do you see what Truly is saying? The vestibule door was closed, and yet he was still able to hear the voices of Baker and Oswald through it.

If Truly was holding the vestibule door open by the time Adams and Styles went through the 2nd floor landing, does anyone seriously think they would not have heard the brief conversation between Baker and Truly?

Edited December 8, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme