The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

[Greg Parker]

...But also, Paine said he saw one of the photos the night of the 22nd at DPD HQ. The problem with this is that they were not supposed to be found until the afternoon of the 23rd.

The effect of all this Mike Paine revisionism is that it alleviates the claims by critics that the BYP's were forgeries. That is, they were not made up after the fact at all. This is the MSM version. ...

One plausible explanation for the fact that the four Back Yard Photographs were FAKE is simply that LHO and Roscoe White made them at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

Jack White (photographer) showed cogently that the Chin, Neck, Shoulders, Right Wrist and Stance of all the Back Yard Photographs belong to Roscoe White.

The face of LHO was superimposed on all of the Back Yard Photographs.

Why would LHO do this? For plausible deniability. LHO knew that he could prove that the Back Yard Photographs were FAKE. He had proof. Yet for some reason LHO insisted on distributing these photographs to the MILITANT newspaper, to George De Mohrenschildt, to Marina for June, and to Roscoe White. Nobody knows how many other copies there were.

(It thus remains plausible that LHO was fired from Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall for using company equipment for personal purposes -- e.g. his Alek J. Hidell ID card.)

If this is correct, then the chances are increased that Roscoe White was an accomplice of LHO in the General Walker shooting, and also involved in the JFK shooting, as his son Ricky White later claimed.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Why where the photos being distributed?

[James DiEugenio]

Greg:

Why do you even deal with this guy?

I mean, in my segment on this, I did not even approach whether or not the photos were forged.

That is not the point of Jeff's work.

He approached it from a different angle. Namely, who took the photos? And who's camera was the Imperial Reflex?

[Greg Parker]

Jim, just curious as to what nefarious purpose he assigns this distribution by Oswald. I'm not interested at all in his or JW's theories about alteration.

[James DiEugenio]

Above, I see I left something unanswered.

As I said, I do not think Hoover was in on the plot. And I gave a couple of reasons why I didn't think so.

But then why did he go along with the cover up?

In Reclaiming Parkland, I devote a chapter to the whole FBI cover up and how Bugliosi ignored it. But I also tried to explain why I think Hoover went along with the cover up. (See pgs. 211-13)

1. He and RFK despised each other personally because RFK actually tried to supervise Hoover and had a direct line into his office.

2. They were opposed to each other on the issues of civil rights, the prosecution of the Mob, and whether or not the FBI should devote so much time and money hunting down communists.

3. RFK planned on replacing Hoover after the 1964 election.

4. Hoover was much more friendly with and comfortable with LBJ.

5. Hoover was eager to conceal Oswald's status as an FBI informant.

So what was the upside for Hoover in trying to find the truth about JFK's murder? I mean his feelings about the Kennedys are conveyed in his calls to RFK on the day of the assassination.

Call number 1: "I have news for you. The president's been shot."

20 minutes later,

Call number two: ""The president's dead." And he hung up. The next day he went to the track.

Edited January 3, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Greg Parker]

Above, I see I left something unanswered.

As I said, I do not think Hoover was in on the plot. And I gave a couple of reasons why I didn't think so.

But then why did he go along with the cover up?

In Reclaiming Parkland, I devote a chapter to the whole FBI cover up and how Bugliosi ignored it. But I also tried to explain why I think Hoover went along with the cover up. (See pgs. 211-13)

1. He and RFK despised each other personally because RFK actually tried to supervise Hoover and had a direct line into his office.

2. They were opposed to each other on the issues of civil rights, the prosecution of the Mob, and whether or not the FBI should devote so much time and money hunting down communists.

3. RFK planned on replacing Hoover after the 1964 election.

4. Hoover was much more friendly with and comfortable with LBJ.

5. Hoover was eager to conceal Oswald's status as an FBI informant.

So what was the upside for Hoover in trying to find the truth about JFK's murder? I mean his feelings about the Kennedys are conveyed in his calls to RFK on the day of the assassination.

Call number 1: "I have news for you. The president's been shot."

20 minutes later,

Call number two: ""The president's dead." And he hung up. The next day he went to the track.

I'd be willing to wager that if you got an expert profiler to assess Hoover, such a profile would confirm he was incapable of being a direct party to the assassination, but would be capable of doing exactly as you say... stymie efforts to get to the truth.

[Paul Trejo]

...But also, Paine said he saw one of the photos the night of the 22nd at DPD HQ. The problem with this is that they were not supposed to be found until the afternoon of the 23rd.

The effect of all this Mike Paine revisionism is that it alleviates the claims by critics that the BYP's were forgeries. That is, they were not made up after the fact at all. This is the MSM version. ...

One plausible explanation for the fact that the four Back Yard Photographs were FAKE is simply that LHO and Roscoe White made them at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

Jack White (photographer) showed cogently that the Chin, Neck, Shoulders, Right Wrist and Stance of all the Back Yard Photographs belong to Roscoe White.

The face of LHO was superimposed on all of the Back Yard Photographs.

Why would LHO do this? For plausible deniability. LHO knew that he could prove that the Back Yard Photographs were FAKE. He had proof. Yet for some reason LHO insisted on distributing these photographs to the MILITANT newspaper, to George De Mohrenschildt, to Marina for June, and to Roscoe White. Nobody knows how many other copies there were.

(It thus remains plausible that LHO was fired from Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall for using company equipment for personal purposes -- e.g. his Alek J. Hidell ID card.)

If this is correct, then the chances are increased that Roscoe White was an accomplice of LHO in the General Walker shooting, and also involved in the JFK shooting, as his son Ricky White later claimed.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Why where the photos being distributed?

Well, Greg, my answer refers in great part to the new book by Dr. Jeffrey Caufield, entitled, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: The Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).

In that book, Caufield argues that LHO worked overtime to forge a FAKE portrait of himself as a Marxist rebel, friendly to Fidel Castro and to global Marxist causes. It was FAKE, argues Caufield, because the people LHO associated with tended to be Fascists.

David Ferrie was a Fascist, says Caufield, and so was Guy Banister and his whole team in NOLA. The mercenaries that LHO associated with, like Frank Sturgis, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall and Larry Howard, were paid by Fascists, he says.

LHO would write to the USSR Embassy, to the CPUSA, to the FPCC and to the MILITANT newspaper in New York, with full knowledge that the FBI would intercept all these letters. LHO was creating a paper trail, to be able to convince ANYBODY that he was really a Marxist rebel. (And notice that LHO never actually joined these Left-wing groups, or associated with their members -- he only created the illusion of being friendly to them.)

In this way, according to Caufield, LHO would be able to infiltrate Left-wing political groups, like the FPCC.

In the Lopez-Hardway Report (2003) for example, we read that LHO used his NOLA FPCC "credentials" to try to obtain instant passage into Cuba. Ordinarily, every FPCC Secretary could obtain instant passage to Cuba through Mexico City. So, that's what LHO tried to do with his "credentials" resumé in Mexico City. But LHO didn't expect that the Cuban Consulate there would have a "bouncers list" of people who were genuine FPCC Secretarys, and LHO's name was never on that list, of course. So there was no way LHO was going to get into Cuba that day -- even after his tantrums at the Cuban Consulate and at the USSR Embassy.

The point was that LHO was trying to infiltrate Left-wing political groups, like the FPCC, and even the CPUSA in Cuba. LHO had also included a FAKE Communist Party card in his "credentials" resumé that he took to Mexico City.. The Cuban Consulate in Mexico City noticed the FAKE right away. (The Communist Cuban Consul, Eusebio Azcue, rushed LHO out of the Mexico City Cuban Consulate with the words, "You're no friend of the Revolution!")

So, LHO was probably being paid to infiltrate the Left-wing, says Caufield, and that is why LHO wanted to send a BYP to the MILITANT newspaper. (They told the WC they never got such a photo, but years later they admiited they got one.)

LHO distrubted a BYP to George DeMohrenschildt, because it was George, along with Volkmar Schmidt, who tried for days to get LHO to hate and despise General Walker, the Fascist. (This could explain why next to his signature on that BYP was the notation, "Hunter of Fascists, ha ha.)

LHO distributed a BYP to Roscoe White, almost certainly because the CHIN, NECK, SHOULDERS, RIGHT WRIST and STANCE all belonged to Roscoe White. That is, Roscoe White was the body double LHO used in the deliberate FAKES. This fourth pose of the BYP surfaced years later among the possessions of Roscoe's wife, Geneva White.

LHO distributed a BYP to Marina for June, so that June would remember the exciting and adventurous episode in her father's legacy. LHO didn't expect his low-level mercenary career to end so ingloriously. LHO had higher hopes for himself and his family.

I trust this answers your question, Greg, about why LHO distributed his BYP's so widely.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 3, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Greg Parker]

I'll leave it there, since any further discussion on this s likely to derail the thread.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Greg Parker

[Paul Trejo]

I'll leave it there, since any further discussion on this s likely to derail the thread.

That's your choice, of course, Greg. Yet I maintain that the portrait of LHO that Dr. Caufield offers is incompatible with the portrait of LHO that Carol Hewett and PROBE magazine have offered since the 1990's.

In the opinion of Carol Hewett -- who is largely James DiEugenio's source -- the wealthy Ruth and Michael Paine manipulated the poverty-stricken LHO to become the Patsy in the Walker shooting and the JFK shooting. They did this by forging the Walker Letter, the Embassy Letter, the BYP, and providing the Imperial Reflex Camera and the Manlicher-Carcano rifle, all from their Irving garage. (And according to Carol Hewett and her followers, they did this in coordination with the FBI.)

This is contrary to the portrait of LHO we get from Dr. Caufield. So, we have two, completely incompatible CT's here, and there will be conflict -- that's obvious.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 3, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[James DiEugenio]

Greg,

Its my thread, go ahead and reply.

I can't because I am kind of stupefied.

Edited January 3, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Jon G. Tidd]

Jim,

Don't be stupefied.

The Paines lied.

The only question is, why?

[Greg Parker]

I'll leave it there, since any further discussion on this s likely to derail the thread.

That's your choice, of course, Greg. Yet I maintain that the portrait of LHO that Dr. Caufield offers is incompatible with the portrait of LHO that Carol Hewett and PROBE magazine have offered since the 1990's.

In the opinion of Carol Hewett -- who is largely James DiEugenio's source -- the wealthy Ruth and Michael Paine manipulated the poverty-stricken LHO to become the Patsy in the Walker shooting and the JFK shooting. They did this by forging the Walker Letter, the Embassy Letter, the BYP, and providing the Imperial Reflex Camera and the Manlicher-Carcano rifle, all from their Irving garage. (And according to Carol Hewett and her followers, they did this in coordination with the FBI.)

This is contrary to the portrait of LHO we get from Dr. Caufield. So, we have two, completely incompatible CT's here, and there will be conflict -- that's obvious.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

It is unclear to me whether the reasons for the distribution are ones you necessarily agree with.

But I've said it before and I;; repeat it here. There was one photo taken. It was taken in Minsk. It had Oswald holding his shotgun overhead in celebration of the birth of June. Marina destroyed this photo out of fear it was incriminating. Ruth Paine translated the conversation Marina had with Marguerite about destroying this photo. It was destroyed the next day. It was only AFTER that was done, that the far more incriminating photos appeared, with Mike Paine helpfully giving the address they were allegedly taken at.

Those photos are forgeries manufactured by or with the connivance of the Paines, who did have a dark room at the residence,

Edited January 4, 2016 by Greg Parker

[Paul Trejo]

It is unclear to me whether the reasons for the distribution are ones you necessarily agree with.

But I've said it before and I;; repeat it here. There was one photo taken. It was taken in Minsk. It had Oswald holding his shotgun overhead in celebration of the birth of June. Marina destroyed this photo out of fear it was incriminating. Ruth Paine translated the conversation Marina had with Marguerite about destroying this photo. It was destroyed the next day. It was only AFTER that was done, that the far more incriminating photos appeared, with Mike Paine helpfully giving the address they were allegedly taken at.

Those photos are forgeries manufactured by or with the connivance of the Paines, who did have a dark room at the residence,

And you're saying you have solid, material, verifiable evidence for this, Greg?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Greg Parker]

Jenner was suspicious - as he should have been.

Mrs. PAINE - I believe so. I might say that my awareness of his subscribing to these last two, the Militant and the Worker, came after the assassination. There was mail awaiting for him for that weekend which he did not pick up on the 21st, and after the assassination, indeed, after Saturday evening, the 23d, when it was announced on television that they had a photograph of Lee Oswald holding two papers. I looked at this pile of mail waiting for him which consisted of these two newspapers, the Militant and the Worker, and I threw them away.

What absolute tripe. She is saying here that she checked his mail after hearing about the BYP and no doubt, the two papers he was holding. Why? She also said that he had not received them there before and did not know about them at all until she did check. Was she acting on the advice of a psychic?

But what got Jenner's attention is that she threw them away...

Mr. JENNER - You threw them away?
Mrs. PAINE - Without opening them.
Mr. JENNER - Why did you throw them away?
Mrs. PAINE - I was pleased to throw away anything I could. I just didn't want it.
Mr. JENNER - Well, my question or query, and I think expression of surprise, is activated by what I am about to ask you as to whether you might call that to the attention of the FBI?
Mrs. PAINE - Oh, I am sure they knew.
Mr. JENNER - How are you sure they knew?
Mrs. PAINE - Because mail stopped coming on the spot, nothing came after the assassination, I was certain it was still coming to some place.

Here is that psychic again. She did not hand them over to the FBI because SHE KNEW THEY KNEW because SHE KNEW the mail WOULD stop coming AFTER that.

Mr. JENNER - But this was almost instantaneously after you heard a broadcast that a photograph of him had been found in which he had been holding up the Militant.
But you immediately went to see if he had that mail and there was a copy of the Militant and you threw it away?
Mrs. PAINE - Why not?

Let me be Jenner for one moment here and answer for him. "Because you lying beach, you copied a letter he was allegedly sending to the Soviet Embassy to give to the FBI. I might add that you could have handed his mail over to the police who were at your place searching on Saturday. You could and should have done that without knowing what was in his mail. Why wasn't this mail handed over?"

Mr. JENNER - Well, it occurred to me you might have called the FBI's attention to the fact that it had come to the house. But you didn't in any event?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I didn't.
Mr. JENNER - Did you report it to the FBI in any of these interviews you had subsequently with them, or did they ask? It is two questions, if you will answer both.
Mrs. PAINE - If so, it was quite recently.

She doesn't really recall reporting these papers to the FBI - but if she did, it was "recently". Fair dinkum. I would have throttled her by now if I had been Jenner...

Mr. JENNER - When did the other papers begin to arrive? Did I interrupt you before you had a chance to complete your answer to my question?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - The papers different from the Worker and the Militant, when did they begin to arrive at your home?
Mrs. PAINE - Well, they began to arrive, I would say, some time after October 4th. That is, of course, my judgment. That is a rationalization.

Okay. Important point. This was the only time those two commie papers arrived.How convenient.

Mr. JENNER - These magazines and newspapers you have recounted first appeared at your home after Lee Oswald came to Dallas and became employed or came to Dallas to live at your house and to seek employment?
Mrs. PAINE - He came to Dallas, he lived in Dallas, but he used my house.
Mr. JENNER - He came to your house?
Mrs. PAINE - As a residence, mailing address. Never asked to and I never complained but I noticed, of course, that he was using it as a mailing address.
Mr. JENNER - Up to that time and even though Marina was living with you nothing of that nature came to your home?
Mrs. PAINE - What?
Mr. JENNER - Prior to the time that Lee arrived at your home on or about or on the 4th of October 1963, none of these newspapers or periodicals had come to your home, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE - That is correct.

Oswald took out a PO box in Dallas on Nov 1. If he was using that for the commie papers, Ruth should have been receiving all of them during October, but none after that. In fact the Warren Report actually states he used his PO boxes specifically for the receipt of his commie papers.

Here is what this is really all about. Her story that she tossed them out because she "wanted to be rid of them" was no lie. She got rid of them because these were the papers that were used to made the phony BYP's. They were not Oswald's at all.

[Paul Trejo]

Jenner was suspicious - as he should have been.

Mrs. PAINE - I believe so. I might say that my awareness of his subscribing to these last two, the Militant and the Worker, came after the assassination. There was mail awaiting for him for that weekend which he did not pick up on the 21st, and after the assassination, indeed, after Saturday evening, the 23d, when it was announced on television that they had a photograph of Lee Oswald holding two papers. I looked at this pile of mail waiting for him which consisted of these two newspapers, the Militant and the Worker, and I threw them away.

What absolute tripe. She is saying here that she checked his mail after hearing about the BYP and no doubt, the two papers he was holding. Why? She also said that he had not received them there before and did not know about them at all until she did check. Was she acting on the advice of a psychic?

<snip>

Oswald took out a PO box in Dallas on Nov 1. If he was using that for the commie papers, Ruth should have been receiving all of them during October, but none after that. In fact the Warren Report actually states he used his PO boxes specifically for the receipt of his commie papers.

Here is what this is really all about. Her story that she tossed them out because she "wanted to be rid of them" was no lie. She got rid of them because these were the papers that were used to made the phony BYP's. They were not Oswald's at all.

You're mistaken, Greg. A lot of folks don't know that when LHO came back to Dallas on October 7th, he began sending his subscriptions to magazines to Ruth Paine's address in Irving.

The DPD and FBI made a full inventory of magazines delivered to Ruth's Irving address, and found a lot:

For example, This is found in Ruth Paine's WC testimony at 2pm, Friday 20 March 1964, in volume 3, starting on page 94 of the WC volumes. Here's my summary of that segment:

--------------- BEGIN SUMMARY OF RUTH PAINE WC TESTIMONY Fri20Mar1964 -----------------

Mrs. PAINE: Lee Oswald subscribed to many newspapers. Many came to my house. They typically sat around the house until the weekend when Lee arrived.

(1) One paper Marina told me was from Minsk, in Russian. I glanced at it out of idle curiosity if nothing else. It was a newspaper as Russians understand newspapers, which makes it a borderline political tract.

(2) There was also a Russian magazine, small, Reader’s Digest size, called the Agitator, the name written in Russian. The entire document was in Russian. My curiosity or intellectual interest never went beyond reading the cover into reading any portion of one of the issues. But I do recall definitely the title page.

(3) There was also Crocodile, which is a Russian satirical humor magazine, also in Russian. I did read it and to observe Russian humor. Being satirical, of course, it made political reference but it was not particularly political in nature.

(4) There was also the Russian magazine Ogonok; it means “bonfire” or “fire” in Russian. It was also printed in Russian. I did read a portion of some of those issues. It was not political. It was a narrative magazine; special articles of interest to the general population.

(5) Lee also subscribed to Time magazine here in America. When he come out on weekends he read that first. My impression is that he took the issue away with him when he left every week.

(6) Lee also subscribed to The Militant, in English, which I’m told published by the Socialist Worker’s Party. I didn’t read it.

(7) Lee also subscribed to The Worker, which I’ve been told is the publication of the Communist Party USA.

----------- END SUMMARY OF RUTH PAINE WC TESTIMONY Fri20Mar1964 -------------------------

So, you see, Greg, Ruth knew a lot about LHO's Russian reading material -- at her own address. Ruth didn't lie about it.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 4, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

As for the BYP, Marina Oswald told the true story: she took one -- and only one BYP. All the rest were FAKES made at an advanced photo lab, i.e. Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall by somebody who knew a lot about photography, i.e. LHO.

What in the world would Marina Oswald have to gain by lying about this?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 4, 2016 by Paul Trejo