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# Swan-Song -- Math Rules

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Hey Chris,

Need some help can you find X for me????    A - B = 176.71   B - C = 3.27 A - C = 176.75    Angle = 11.30 degrees

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Awesome Chris thank you,

Sorry but i may have been a little off with my angle degree measurement can you check my work for me at 12.09 degrees.

A - B = 176.71   B - C = 3.27 A - C = 176.75    Angle = 12.09 degrees therefore X = 37.85

Many Thanks

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Start a new topic named "Conversions" or something like that.

I believe the answer you are seeking may not be indicative of the figures you are providing.

Let's make sure before we go on.

Chris

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• 4 months later...
On 3/26/2018 at 8:34 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Let's use Myers 108% manipulation to sync his distance difference with CE884:

79.2ft x 1.08% = 85.536ft

85.536ft - 79.2ft = 6.336ft

6.336ft - .9ft = 5.436ft difference

Now refer to the distance per frame traveled from CE884 z161-z166 = .18ft per frame traveled

The WC difference comes in the span of z133-z161 = 30.2ft (Station# 299- 329.2)

30.2ft  x .18ft = 5.436ft

How many frames might we be dealing with for that equation:

30.2 /.18 = 167.77

Myers plat enlarging to 108% can be used to sync his work with the incorrect (CE884 WC final version) Station# 3+30.1 = Z166

His total distance traveled for Towner's film = 86.38ft as he used an inside radius = drivers side rear tire as his marker.

The distance traveled using (JFK within the limo) an outside radius, as the marker = 110.9ft

86.38/1.08 = 79.98ft

110.9 - 79.98ft = 30.92ft

Push forward to Z133 @ Station# 2+99.0 + 30.92ft = Station# 3+29.92

The link spells out the frame distance traveled for z161-z166 @ .18ft per frame

Station# 3+29.92 + .18ft(1frame) = Station# 3+30.1 = (CE884 WC final version) Station# 3+30.1 = Z166

Myers uses 167 frames as his Towner total.

The extra frame needed comes via the bottom of that link which states:

Now refer to the distance per frame traveled from CE884 z161-z166 = .18ft per frame traveled

The WC difference comes in the span of z133-z161 = 30.2ft (Station# 299- 329.2)

30.2 /.18 = 167.77 ﻿vs 167 =  1extra frame

Or just take Myers landing at 3+29.92 - Z133(3+29.2) = .72ft + .18ft (1frame) = .9ft

.9ft = the total distance traveled Z161-166 from CE884 WC final version.

108% is rather interesting moving forward!!!!

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Do you think that Myers retarding (keeping eastward) the limo distance 30.92ft at the front end would have any relationship to the distance of 30.856ft at the back end?

Since the limo length was used as part of the equation which ultimately led to the distance between the (WC documented) Altgen's and extant Z313 shot, would it be appropriate to apply the Myers % adjustment accordingly?

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6 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Do you think that Myers retarding (keeping eastward) the limo distance 30.92ft at the front end would have any relationship to the distance of 30.856ft at the back end?

Since the limo length was used as part of the equation which ultimately led to the distance between the (WC documented) Altgen's and extant Z313 shot, would it be appropriate to apply the Myers % adjustment accordingly?

It is my impression, as Myers did not represent one of the limo measurements correctly, that anything he posits should be taken as an impression, not necessarily exact.

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12 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

It is my impression, as Myers did not represent one of the limo measurements correctly, that anything he posits should be taken as an impression, not necessarily exact.

Pamela,

That's not the way it works. imo

He specifically states exactness in regards to his Epipolar multi-film synchronization project.

The limo measurement inaccuracy would be just another in a long line of adjustments to have his work sync with the WC results.

When you have two projects that use incorrect info, but result in the same outcome, that is a big no no.

As an example, how many 8mm camera's film at a frame rate some 26% faster than (18fps) than their factory specs dictate.

Both on the same day, filming the same event.

When the correct limo length is used in ongoing calculations, some rather revealing insights occur.

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20 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Now refer to the distance per frame traveled from CE884 z161-z166 = .18ft per frame traveled

The WC difference comes in the span of z133-z161 = 30.2ft (Station# 299- 329.2)

30.2 /.18 = 167.77 ﻿vs 167 =  1extra frame

Slice the limo up and integrate it with Myers and CE884.

21.34ft/.18 = 118.55 frames (+/- 1frame)

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It would have been easier to give us the distance traveled between the Towner end and the Z beginning.

That would be 5.625ft.

Sorry, but 15 frames @ 5.625ft using 18.3frames per sec = a limo traveling 4.66mph.

When the Martin film (an 8mm camera)@18.8frames per sec is plotted (16 frames) through the Towner/Z gap the limo is traveling at 11.33mph.

This coincides with the average consisting of  the last 20 Towner frames and the first 16Z frames.

7.78mph + 14.88mph = 22.66mph/2 = 11.33mph

Added on edit: 6.18 frames (11.33mph - 18.3frames per sec) would have elapsed to cover the gap, not the 15 + 118 =133 that you were led to believe.

Edited by Chris Davidson
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On 6/12/2019 at 12:26 PM, Chris Davidson said:

His total distance traveled for Towner's film = 86.38ft as he used an inside radius = drivers side rear tire as his marker.

The distance traveled using (JFK within the limo) an outside radius, as the marker = 110.9ft

.9ft = the total distance traveled Z161-166 from CE884 WC final version.

108% is rather interesting moving forward!!!!

Added was the Towner gap of 5.625ft (In the end, I think they "powers that be" used  5.5ft)

This leads up to, but not including the .9ft jump from z161-z166.

24.52+ 5.625 = 30.145ft / 9.125 sec (167 Towner frames@18.3 frames per sec) = 3.3ft per sec

This quite closely matches the speed of the limo at CE884 Z161-Z166 = 3.294ft per sec.

In other words, the entry for z161-z166 is a major remnant of the (3.29ft per sec = 2.24mph) adjustment  being applied to the overall equation.

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On 2/20/2016 at 12:47 PM, Chris Davidson said:

The equation broken down for those who don't want to do the conversion:

15.116ft- Distance from limo front to JFK in limo

divide

12 - Total frames from 154-166

=1.259666…. ft per frame

x

18.3 - Frames per sec

= 23.05ft traveled in 1 second @ 18.3 frames per sec

divide

48 frames per sec true camera speed at this point

= .48 ft per frame

x 5 frames (z161-166)

= 2.4ft = distance between JFK and Connally in limo.

= 5 true consecutive frames from a 48fps film.

Added on edit: I use 1.47ft per sec (rounded off from 1.466) as my multiplier for mph conversions.

chris

Speaking of limo exercises and the Myers 8% solution:

21.34ft x 1.08(spread) = 23.0472ft per sec

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On 4/3/2016 at 8:33 AM, Chris Davidson said:

This is a partial equation for the few who are interested. The existing pieces have been provided except for the final piece of 19.756ft.

517.5 - 21.34 = 496.16 - 465.3 = 30.86 or (30.856) - .9 - 10.2 = 19.76 or (19.756)

Speaking of limo exercises and the Myers 8% solution:﻿

21.34ft / 1.08(squeeze) = 19.759ft per sec ﻿

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On 6/13/2019 at 12:56 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Added was the Towner gap of 5.625ft (In the end, I think they "powers that be" used  5.5ft)

This leads up to, but not including the .9ft jump from z161-z166.

24.52+ 5.625 = 30.145ft / 9.125 sec (167 Towner frames@18.3 frames per sec) = 3.3ft per sec

This quite closely matches the speed of the limo at CE884 Z161-Z166 = 3.294ft per sec.

In other words, the entry for z161-z166 is a major remnant of the (3.29ft per sec = 2.24mph) adjustment  being applied to the overall equation.

Difference in limo (spread and squeeze) distance = 23.0472ft - 19.759ft = 3.288ft per sec

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On 5/10/2016 at 2:54 PM, Chris Davidson said:

The .56ft elevation difference CE560 coupled with the bogus distance traveled .9ft from z168-z171(CE884 final plat) or z161-z166(CE884 WC final) and added to the difference between (Time/Life determination of shot at extant 207 and FBI/SS determination) 10.2ft farther west down Elm St when converted, equals a total distance of:

10.24ft + .9ft + 10.2ft = 21.34ft

This distance equals the exact length of the limo, provided from the WC document in post #3.

256.1" / 12 = 21.34ft

In case you had forgotten what constitutes the limo length.

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