Two Dallas cops were involved in the pre-arranged murder of Tippit...

[Tom Neal]

Croy states (in his WC testimony?) that he did NOT file an 'activities report' on 11-22-1963. Was he ever required to give an affidavit regarding his actions that day? As a VERY early arrival at the JDT murder scene (if not the first officer present) and the guy that found (if we can believe him 30 years later) or at least examined LHO's found wallet, I would think that would be a requirement.

Tom,

It is pretty obvious from Croy's testimony that he wasn't much interested in working "long hours".... at least not that day. He was busy handing off witnesses to other officers. (Or is that something sergeants routinely do?)

Regardless, Croy had made a lunch date with his wife and his stop at the Tippit shooting was making him late. He compensated by deciding not to go home (his parents house) to change clothes.

Of course none of this means that he wasn't required to write a report. But the impression I got is that he wouldn't do so if he didn't have to. At least not until a later date.

Sandy,

I think that you have re-asked my question. Regardless of what he wanted to do on that day or later, at some point the FIRST or almost first officer on the scene SHOULD have been required to write a formal statement or give an affidavit. If he found or even examined the wallet "found" at the scene then all the more reason for a statement. If he was NEVER REQUIRED to make a statement, or the statement has gone the way of the list of theater patrons present at the time of "LHO's" arrest, that IMO, implies that they either didn't want him to make a statement, or he said something in that statement that was unacceptable.

Tom

[Sandy Larsen]

Croy states (in his WC testimony?) that he did NOT file an 'activities report' on 11-22-1963. Was he ever required to give an affidavit regarding his actions that day? As a VERY early arrival at the JDT murder scene (if not the first officer present) and the guy that found (if we can believe him 30 years later) or at least examined LHO's found wallet, I would think that would be a requirement.

Tom,

It is pretty obvious from Croy's testimony that he wasn't much interested in working "long hours".... at least not that day. He was busy handing off witnesses to other officers. (Or is that something sergeants routinely do?)

Regardless, Croy had made a lunch date with his wife and his stop at the Tippit shooting was making him late. He compensated by deciding not to go home (his parents house) to change clothes.

Of course none of this means that he wasn't required to write a report. But the impression I got is that he wouldn't do so if he didn't have to. At least not until a later date.

Sandy,

I think that you have re-asked my question. Regardless of what he wanted to do on that day or later, at some point the FIRST or almost first officer on the scene SHOULD have been required to write a formal statement or give an affidavit. If he found or even examined the wallet "found" at the scene then all the more reason for a statement. If he was NEVER REQUIRED to make a statement, or the statement has gone the way of the list of theater patrons present at the time of "LHO's" arrest, that IMO, implies that they either didn't want him to make a statement, or he said something in that statement that was unacceptable.

Tom

Tom,

I agree that it is highly suspicious that there is no statement from Croy regarding the Tippit scene. It is impossible for me to believe that he wouldn't have been asked to make a statement. Unless, of course, his superiors were hiding something.

I suspect that he gave a statement and that it had something on it that his superiors didn't like. And so it disappeared.

I wonder if Croy actually did recover the Oswald wallet. Suppose it was the shooter who planted the wallet. And then one of the witnesses standing around picked it up and gave it to Croy a few minutes later, when he arrived. Or the witnesses didn't touch it and Croy picked it up himself. He would have held onto it till the other officers arrived. Then he would have either given it to Westbrook directly, or indirectly through other officers. After which he left the scene, as he stated, to meet with his wife.

Croy certainly would have mentioned the wallet in his statement. Which would have meant there were TWO Oswald wallets on record. Which could not be allowed, so any statement mentioning the Oswald wallet had to disappear. Croy was told not to talk about the wallet. But he finally did thirty years later.

If anybody can see an inconsistency or other problem with this hypothesis, please let me know. Because at the moment I am favoring it.

[Sandy Larsen]

We know that Croy wasn't at the scene when the crowd began gathering around Tippit's body. He wasn't "already there" when Virginia Davis and her sister-in-law first stepped outside. (Because otherwise, why would a witness have "hollered" over to them that Tippit was dead and to call the police?)

Virginia Davis's sister-in-law did call the police. Plus there were witnesses trying to contact the police through Tippit's radio. The police subsequently announced over the radio that Tippit had been shot. An ambulance was dispatched from only a couple blocks away, and not surprisingly arrived before the police did.

Croy said he saw the ambulance being loaded when he arrived at the scene. Was it actually possible for Croy to have arrived in time to see that? Actually, this is fairly easy to check.

First, read the pertinent information from Croy's testimony in RED. (I include testimony surrounding the red to provide context.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Then, what did you do?
Mr. CROY. I proceeded on home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Which way did you drive home?
Mr. CROY. Out Thornton to Colorado, and Colorado to--I can't think of the street. It was Marsalis. [Just keep the name Marsalis in mind. You will see below why it is important.]
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that----
Mr. CROY. Or Zangs.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Thornton to Zangs?

Mr. CROY. Thornton to Colorado to Zangs.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Then out Zangs and in a westerly direction?
Mr. CROY. No. That is when I heard the call on Tippit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were at the corner of Zangs and Colorado?
Mr. CROY. When the call came out on Tippit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. CROY. I proceeded to the location where Tippit was shot.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was that?
Mr. CROY. I think it was in the 400 block of East 10th, I believe it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what street intersection that was?
Mr. CROY. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you describe that area out there?
Mr. CROY. Just residential.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, was there----
Mr. CROY. Where Tippit was killed, you mean?
Mr. GRIFFIN. This area that you went to where Tippit was?
Mr. CROY. Well, the street where he was killed was a residential area. The street immediately south of that, Jefferson, is business.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Now, I am just referring to the street you found him on. When you got there, was Tippit's car there?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Tippit there?
Mr. CROY. They were loading him in the ambulance.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were other officers on the scene?
Mr. CROY. None that I saw.

So Croy was at the intersection of Zangs Blvd. and Colorado Blvd. when Tippit's shooting was announced over the police radio. He had planned to go west to his parents' house (to change clothes), but instead turned east. He was headed to the murder scene, at 10th and Patton.

I did a search in Google Maps to determine how long it would take to travel that distance. Here is what I got:

Google Maps gives three path choices. Given that Croy mentions Marsalis Ave., I think it is reasonable to conclude that that was likely the path he chose. Google Maps gives two path choices that go down Marsalis. One of those paths is estimated by Google Maps to take four minutes in traffic, and the other five minutes. Both of them four minutes without traffic.

Croy wasn't in a squad car at the time. But being a policeman en route to a police shooting, it wouldn't surprise me if he took liberties with the speed limit. I believe he could have easily arrived in three minutes.

Croy was already driving in his car when he got the call. The same is not true with the ambulance crew. Though I'm sure they rushed getting into their vehicle. How long would it have taken for them to hop into the ambulance, drive to the murder scene, hop out, remove the stretcher and load Tippit onto it, and load him into the back of the ambulance? I'm pretty sure it would have taken a few minutes. I doubt less than three minutes.

My conclusion is that the timing is right for Croy to have arrived in time to see the body being loaded. Even if just the very end of the act.

BTW, for anybody interested, here is an account of what happened with the ambulance crew, written by George and Patricia Nash and posted on Ken Rahn's website:
:

The Dudley M. Hughes Funeral Home is the central ambulance dispatching point for southern Dallas. It either handles calls directly or calls other funeral homes in the system that cover other areas. Dudley M. Hughes Jr., the dispatcher, took the call from the police. He filled out an ambulance call slip with the code “3-19” (which means emergency shooting) and the address, “501 East 10^th Street.” He put the slip into the time clock and stamped it 1:18 p.m., November 22, in the space marked “Time Called.” Since the location was just two short blocks away he told one of his own drivers, Clayton Butler, to respond. Butler and Eddie Kinsley ran down the steps, got into the ambulance and took off, siren screaming.

Butler radioed his arrival at the scene at 1:18 p.m., within 60 seconds of leaving the funeral home. He remembers that there were at least 10 people standing around the man lying on the ground. It was not until he and his assistant pulled back a blanket covering Tippit that they realized the victim was a policeman.

Butler ran back to his radio to inform headquarters. The radio was busy and he could not cut in. He yelled “Mayday” to no avail, and went back to Tippit. The officer lay on his side, face down with part of his body under the left front fender of the police car. Butler and Kinsley rolled him over and saw the bullet wound through Tippit’s temple. Butler told us, “I thought he was dead then. It’s not my position to say so. We got him into the ambulance and we got going as quick as possible. On the way to the hospital I finally let them know it was a policeman.” The record shows that Butler called in to the funeral home at 1: 26 p.m. to say he had reached the hospital.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Ray Mitcham]

"The record shows that Butler called in to the funeral home at 1: 26 p.m. to say he had reached the hospital."

Yet, the hospital Death Certificate stated the time of death of the President as 1.15 p.m. (Altered from 1.06p.m.)

They must have examined him at the hospital before he arrived there.

Now a magic hospital.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Ray Mitcham

[Jim Hargrove]

Excellent find, Jim. Anything interesting on page two of this doc?

I believe he said that he made heroic efforts to grab Ruby by the coattail and put an end to his attempt to silence Oswald and befuddle American history for more than half a century. Judge for yourself here:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340065/

Croy states (in his WC testimony?) that he did NOT file an 'activities report' on 11-22-1963. Was he ever required to give an affidavit regarding his actions that day? As a VERY early arrival at the JDT murder scene (if not the first officer present) and the guy that found (if we can believe him 30 years later) or at least examined LHO's found wallet, I would think that would be a requirement.

Remember, though, that the Tenth & Patton wallet didn't officially exist for thirty years. Hosty and Bob Barrett spilled the beans, but nobody took it seriously until that WFAA footage resurfaced. Amazing that a wallet of vast historical import can be filmed on a public city street, and simply disappear for decades. (Did it just scream "planted evidence" that a guy would shoot a cop at point blank range, walk back and shoot him again, and then leave his wallet at the scene?)

Here's where we seem to stand:

1) Croy was there moments after the shooting. (Virginia Davis, who said officers were already "there" and Croy's testimony to the WC). Also, Mrs. Holan said that after looking at Tippit laying in the street the man walked back to the police car as the car was backing up--was Croy driving the car at that time?

-or-

2) Croy was never at 10th & Patton (no witnesses mention him; no police reports mention him; Croy himself failed to notify Chief Curry that he had been at 10th & Patton.

1A--If Croy was there moments after the shooting he (and Westbrook) was most certainly part of a conspiracy to murder Tippit

-or-

2A--If Croy was never at 10th & Patton, then he was involved in a conspiracy (with Westbrook) to blame Harvey Oswald for the murder of Tippit by stating that he was the person who found the second wallet and gave the wallet to Westbrook. There is no innocent explanation for Croy stating that it was he who found the second wallet and gave that wallet to Westbrook.

Bump.

[Jim Hargrove]

So, we are supposed to believe that Honest Ken Croy arrived in time to see Tippit loaded into the ambulance, talk to a lady witness for 10 minutes, find a second Oswald wallet (Ted Callaway said, "I'll tell you one thing, there was no wallet at the scene. If there were too many people would have seen it."), and then wait around for 1/2 hour (until approximately 1:40 PM) for Capt. Westbrook to arrive and give him the second wallet? Minutes later, when all police officers hurried to the Texas Theater we are supposed to believe that Croy had more important things to do, such as meet his wife for lunch (now late by 1 hour).

Would anyone care to explain why neither Croy nor Westbrook nor any police officer at 10th & Patton wrote a report concerning the second wallet "found" at the scene of the Tippit shooting. Would anyone care to explain why neither Honest Ken nor Westbrook mentioned the second wallet during their WC testimony, or to Chief Curry, or to the HSCA, or to news reporters? Would anyone care to explain why this vital piece of evidence was not entered into evidence by either Westbrook or Honest Ken?

Would a lawyer on this forum please explain the consequences of police officers withholding a vital piece of evidence and then destroying that evidence (the second wallet that was allegedly "found" at the scene of Tippit's murder)? Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why Honest Ken and Capt. Westbrook's possession of a second wallet AT 10th & Patton does not scream "PLANTED EVIDENCE" AND "COVERUP" ??

[Sandy Larsen]

So, we are supposed to believe that Honest Ken Croy arrived in time to see Tippit loaded into the ambulance, talk to a lady witness for 10 minutes, find a second Oswald wallet (Ted Callaway said, "I'll tell you one thing, there was no wallet at the scene. If there were too many people would have seen it."), and then wait around for 1/2 hour (until approximately 1:40 PM) for Capt. Westbrook to arrive and give him the second wallet?

I don't know what you are having trouble with Jim. According to Croy's testimony, he had to have arrived at the scene at about 1:20, which is when the ambulance was about to leave. And he had to have left the scene after 1:40 or so, given that he saw the squad cars at the theater as he passed by. If Westbrook arrived at 1:40 as you say, then that was just 20 minutes after Croy arrived. Croy said he talked to a witness for about 15 minutes and that he turned over other witnesses to other officers. Then he left. If he did recover the wallet (my hypothesis), then he must have handed it over to Westbrook after speaking to his witness.

(Ted Callaway said, "I'll tell you one thing, there was no wallet at the scene. If there were too many people would have seen it.")

An early witness may have picked up the wallet, like some were picking up bullet shells. It's not necessary that everybody saw it. (What time did Ted Callaway arrive at the murder scene?)

Minutes later, when all police officers hurried to the Texas Theater we are supposed to believe that Croy had more important things to do, such as meet his wife for lunch (now late by 1 hour).

Croy was off duty. He went home. Not everybody is dedicated to their jobs.

And not everything that is different than what we would expect has a sinister explanation behind it.

Would anyone care to explain why neither Croy nor Westbrook nor any police officer at 10th & Patton wrote a report concerning the second wallet "found" at the scene of the Tippit shooting.

According to my hypothesis, Croy did write a report (and/or made a statement) wherein he reported finding the Oswald Wallet. (Other officers may have as well.) The report(s) had to be eliminated because the official story was that Oswald's wallet was found on him at the theater.

That said, you're not suggesting that the second wallet wasn't at the scene are you? The video proves it was, doesn't it? So the second wallet was there, and certain police officers saw it, and yet there is no (surviving) report mentioning it. Doesn't this prove that either reports mentioning the wallet were destroyed, or the officers who saw the wallet were told not to report or talk about it?

Would anyone care to explain why neither Honest Ken nor Westbrook mentioned the second wallet during their WC testimony, or to Chief Curry, or to the HSCA, or to news reporters? Would anyone care to explain why this vital piece of evidence was not entered into evidence by either Westbrook or Honest Ken?

We all know the answer to that, Jim. Why are you asking it?

Would a lawyer on this forum please explain the consequences of police officers withholding a vital piece of evidence and then destroying that evidence (the second wallet that was allegedly "found" at the scene of Tippit's murder)? Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why Honest Ken and Capt. Westbrook's possession of a second wallet AT 10th & Patton does not scream "PLANTED EVIDENCE" AND "COVERUP" ??

You're singing to the choir, Jim. We all believe the wallet was planted and then covered up. That it was planted is a part of my hypothesis. My hypothesis states that the wallet was planted by the shooter, not Westbrook. But it's just a hypothesis. Westbrook may very well have planted the wallet.

[Jim Hargrove]

So, we are supposed to believe that Honest Ken Croy arrived in time to see Tippit loaded into the ambulance, talk to a lady witness for 10 minutes, find a second Oswald wallet (Ted Callaway said, "I'll tell you one thing, there was no wallet at the scene. If there were too many people would have seen it."), and then wait around for 1/2 hour (until approximately 1:40 PM) for Capt. Westbrook to arrive and give him the second wallet?

I don't know what you are having trouble with Jim. According to Croy's testimony, he had to have arrived at the scene at about 1:20, which is when the ambulance was about to leave. And he had to have left the scene after 1:40 or so, given that he saw the squad cars at the theater as he passed by. If Westbrook arrived at 1:40 as you say, then that was just 20 minutes after Croy arrived. Croy said he talked to a witness for about 15 minutes and that he turned over other witnesses to other officers. Then he left. If he did recover the wallet (my hypothesis), then he must have handed it over to Westbrook after speaking to his witness.

WELL, SANDY, CROY, ACCORDING TO VIRGINIA DAVIS, WAS ON THE SCENE MINUTES AFTER TIPPIT WAS SHOT (CIRCA 1:06 PM). OR WOULD YOU CARE TO IDENTIFY THE POLICE OFFICER TO WHOM SHE WAS REFERRING WHEN SHE TOLD THE WC "THEY WERE ALREADY THERE."

CROY, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, WATCHED TIPPIT BEING LOADED INTO THE AMBULANCE. THIS OCCURRED ABOUT 1:10 PM, AS TIPPIT WAS PRONOUNCED DEAD WHEN HE ARRIVED AT THE HOSPITAL AT 1:15 PM. MY POINT IS THAT CROY WAS ON ALLEGEDLY THE SCENE FOR AT LEAST 1/2 HOUR (FROM 1:06 TO 1:10 PM UNTIL ABOUT 1:45 PM), YET NEITHER HE NOR ANY POLICE OFFICER NOR WITNESS REPORTED HIS PRESENCE.

(Ted Callaway said, "I'll tell you one thing, there was no wallet at the scene. If there were too many people would have seen it.")

An early witness may have picked up the wallet, like some were picking up bullet shells. It's not necessary that everybody saw it. (What time did Ted Callaway arrive at the murder scene?) CALLAWAY WATCHED OSWALD AS HE WAS HURRYING SOUTH ON PATTON (1/2 BLOCK FROM THE SCENE). CALLAWAY THEN HURRIED TO THE SCENE, ARRIVING ABOUT 1-2 MINUTES LATER (ABOUT 1:08). IF ANY WINTESS PICKED UP THE WALLET, THEN THE DAVIS SISTERS, STANDING NEAR TIPPIT'S BODY, WOULD HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN.

Minutes later, when all police officers hurried to the Texas Theater we are supposed to believe that Croy had more important things to do, such as meet his wife for lunch (now late by 1 hour).

Croy was off duty. He went home. Not everybody is dedicated to their jobs. NO, HONEST KEN DID NOT GO HOME. HONEST KEN APPARENTLY REMAINED AT THE SCENE FOR 1/2 HOUR AND, ACCORDING TO HIM, GAVE THE SECOND WALLET TO WESTBROOK. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE CROY WENT AFTER HE LEFT 10TH & PATTON, UNLESS YOU CAN OFFER DOCUMENTED PROOF (OTHER THAN HIS HIGHLY-SUSPECT WC TESTIMONY).

And not everything that is different than what we would expect has a sinister explanation behind it.

Would anyone care to explain why neither Croy nor Westbrook nor any police officer at 10th & Patton wrote a report concerning the second wallet "found" at the scene of the Tippit shooting.

According to my hypothesis, Croy did write a report (and/or made a statement) wherein he reported finding the Oswald Wallet. (Other officers may have as well.) WONDERFUL. PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE FOR THAT. The report(s) had to be eliminated because the official story was that Oswald's wallet was found on him at the theater.

ACCORDING TO YOUR HYPOTHESIS, NUMEROUS DALLAS POLICE OFFICERS, FBI AGENTS, AND A TV CREW WOULD HAVE TO BE ACCOMPLICES IN COVERING UP A SECOND WALLET. DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS WAS POSSIBLE? CAN YOU IDENTIFY THE DPD OFFICIAL WHO ISSUED SUCH AN ORDER? DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER FOR YOUR HYPOTHESIS?

That said, you're not suggesting that the second wallet wasn't at the scene are you? The video proves it was, doesn't it? So the second wallet was there, and certain police officers saw it, and yet there is no (surviving) report mentioning it. Doesn't this prove that either reports mentioning the wallet were destroyed, or the officers who saw the wallet were told not to report or talk about it?

CROY SAID THAT HE HAD POSSESSION OF THE WALLET AND GAVE IT TO WESTBROOK. THE VIDEO PROVES THE WALLET WAS AT 10TH & PATTON. FBI AGENT HOSTY SAID WESTBROOK HAD POSSESSION OF THE WALLET AND THAT WESTBROOK WAS THE LAST PERSON KNOWN TO HAVE THE WALLET. THERE IS NO PROOF THAT A SINGLE REPORT OR TESTIMONY WAS GIVEN CONCERNING A 2ND WALLET. IT APPEARS THAT A HIGH-RANKING OFFICIAL TOLD POLICE OFFICERS WHO SAW THE WALLET NOT TO REPORT IT. COULD POLICE OFFICERS, OR FBI AGENTS, HAVE WRITTEN REPORTS ABOUT THE SECOND WALLET AND THOSE REPORTS DISAPPEARED? OF COURSE, BUT THERE IS NO PROOF THAT REPORTS WERE WRITTEN. THE ONLY "PROOF" WE HAVE IS THAT THERE ARE NO REPORTS OR TESTIMONY TO BE FOUND. THE ABSENCE OF REPORTS AND TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE SECOND WALLET, NO MATTER HOW YOU EXPLAIN IT, HAD TO OCCUR IN ORDER TO HIDE THE PLANTING OF EVIDENCE AND THE SUBSEQUENT COVERUP. BOTH HONEST KEN AND WESTBROOK WERE INVOLVED.

Would anyone care to explain why neither Honest Ken nor Westbrook mentioned the second wallet during their WC testimony, or to Chief Curry, or to the HSCA, or to news reporters? Would anyone care to explain why this vital piece of evidence was not entered into evidence by either Westbrook or Honest Ken?

We all know the answer to that, Jim. Why are you asking it?

I'M ASKING BECAUSE THE SECOND WALLET, HANDLED BY HONEST KEN AND WESTBROOK, WAS NEVER MENTIONED IN A POLICE REPORT, WC TESTIMONY, HSCA TESTIMONY, ETC. THE PLANTING AND COVERUP OF THE SECOND WALLET INVOLVED BOTH HONEST KEN AND WESTBROOK. WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT BOTH MEN WERE INVOLVED IN A COVERUP THAT INVOLVED THE MURDER OF A DALLAS POLICEMAN, THEN THE ALL TESTIMONY AND WRITTEN REPORTS OF BOTH MEN BECOME SUSPECT.

Would a lawyer on this forum please explain the consequences of police officers withholding a vital piece of evidence and then destroying that evidence (the second wallet that was allegedly "found" at the scene of Tippit's murder)? Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why Honest Ken and Capt. Westbrook's possession of a second wallet AT 10th & Patton does not scream "PLANTED EVIDENCE" AND "COVERUP" ??

You're singing to the choir, Jim. We all believe the wallet was planted and then covered up. That it was planted is a part of my hypothesis. My hypothesis states that the wallet was planted by the shooter, not Westbrook. But it's just a hypothesis. Westbrook may very well have planted the wallet.

IF THE WALLET WAS PLANTED BY THE SHOOTER, THEN WHY DID NOT ONE SINGLE WITNESS SEE IT? IF THE WALLET WAS FOUND AT THE SCENE, REGARDLESS OF WHO FOUND IT, THEN WHY WAS IT NOT INITIALED BY THE OFFICER WHO FOUND IT, TURNED OVER BY THAT OFFICER TO HOMICIDE AND ROBBERY, PHOTOGRAHED, AND A REPORT WRITTEN BY THE OFFICER WHO FOUND THE ITEM. IF HONEST KEN "INNOCENTLY FOUND" THE WALLET, WHICH HE CLAIMED TO HAVE DONE 30 YEARS LATER, THEN WHY DID HE DO OR SAY NOTHING? IT APPEARS TO ME, A NON-LAWYER, THAT HONEST KEN IS JUST AS GUILTY AS WESTBROOK IN THE WITHHOLDING OF EVIDENCE AND THE DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE.

THE FACT THAT NOBODY SAW A WALLET AT THE TIPPIT MURDER SCENE, AND HONEST KEN SAID NOTHING ABOUT THE WALLET FOR 30 YEARS, IS THE BEST "PROOF" THAT THE SECOND WALLET WAS BROUGHT TO THE SCENE BY THE MAN WHO FIRST PRODUCED THE WALLET--CAPT. W.R. WESTBROOK. THE FACT THAT HONEST KEN SAID THAT HE GAVE THE WALLET TO WESTBROOK MAKES HIM AN ACCOMPLICE TO THE PLANTING OF EVIDENCE AND THE COVERUP.

NOW, IF YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT DPD OFFICIALS (OTHER THAN WESTBROOK) HAD KNOWLEDGE OF THE SECOND WALLET, AND ORDERED POLICE OFFICERS TO IGNORE THE SECOND WALLET, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE PROVIDE SUCH DOCUMENTATION.

BY THE WAY, AFTER CAPT WESTBROOK ALLEGEDLY FOUND THE WHITE JACKET ALLEGEDLY DISCARDED BY OSWALD, THE JACKET WAS INITIALED BY DPD OFFICERS, A REPORT WRITTEN BY WESTBROOK, PHOTOGRAPHED, AND TURNED OVER TO HOMICIDE AND ROBBERY. THAT'S STANDARD POLICE PROCEEDURE.

[Tom Neal]

According to the WC testimony of Barbara Jeannette Davis, she and her 16 year-old sister-in-law Virginia Davis heard two gunshots. They put on their shoes and ran to the front door to see what was happening. They heard their neighbor Mrs. Markham scream "He's dead - call the police!" At this time they saw a man walking at a normal pace, cutting across their front yard while emptying the shells from his gun into his left hand.

BJD: "He looked at her (Mrs. Markham) first, he looked at me, and then smiled and went around the corner."

BJD: "He was walking at his normal pace."

They did NOT see him discard the shells he had emptied into his hand. Barbara and Virginia then went back into the house, called the police and reported the shooting. They then went outside and walked to the policeman's car. They saw him on the ground, but did not get very close.

Mr. Ball: "How long did you stay there?"

BJD: "Not 5 minutes, because the police cars started coming, and I went back to my yard."

Later, Barbara found a shell in her yard which she gave to the police who were still at the scene. Several hours later Virginia found a second shell. That the night when the police came to take them to the lineup, they turned the shell over to the police. The both were certain that LHO was the 'man with the gun' that they had seen in their yard.

Based upon her testimony, I'd say police cars arrived about 10 minutes after the shots were fired.

Tom

[Jim Hargrove]

Sure sounds like that smiling cop killer wanted to be seen, doesn't it? It's almost as if he knew that someone who looked quite a bit like himself was already at the Texas Theater ready to be busted--and the killer was headed that way.

Virginia Davis said the police were already at the Tippit murder scene when she and her sister stepped out their front door:

Mrs. DAVIS. We saw a boy walking, cutting across our yard.

Mr. BELIN. Where was he when you first saw him?

Mrs. DAVIS. He was about 3 feet from the sidewalk. Not the one that comes up to our front door, but the other sidewalk.

Mr. BELIN. He was about 3 feet from the front sidewalk on East l0th?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Had he come up to your sidewalk yet that comes up from East 10th to your front door?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, he had already. He was about half on the concrete, I think.

Mr. BELIN. He was half on that concrete?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you watch this man do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We watched him unload the shells out of his gun.

Mr. BELIN. What hand was he holding this gun in?

Mrs. Davis. In the right.

Mr. BELIN. He was holding the gun in his right hand. if you remember?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What was he doing with his left hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. He was emptying the shells in his left hand.

Mr. BELIN. Was the gun broken open. so to speak? In other words. I don’t know if you have ever seen a capgun. When you want to load the capgun, you have to kind of break it apart on a hinge. Was the gun broken apart like that, or was the barrel straight?

Mrs. DAVIS. It was like the real gun, little one.

Mr. BELIN. What do you mean it was just like?

Mrs. DAVIS. It was just as best as I can remember, it was a little pistol, and he was emptying the shells. Where the shell was coming nut, he was emptying the shells into his left hand.

Mr. BELIS. Did you see what he did with the shells when he emptied them into his left hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. After we, well, he was dropping them on the ground because we found two.

Mr. BELIN. You said that you found two? Did you see him drop them on the ground or not?

Mrs. DAVIS. So; we didn’t see him.

Mr. BELIN. You just saw him emptying shells in his hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. You didn’t actually see what he did with them when he got them in his hand, did you?

Mrs. DAVIS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You are nodding your head no?

Mrs. DAVIS. No.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you see the man do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, he just cut across. He disappeared from behind the corner of the house.

Mr. BELIN. Going toward what street?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, going toward Jefferson Street.

Mr. BELIN. He was headed on Patton in the direction toward Jefferson?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see him actually get to Patton Street?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes ; he was already around the corner.

Mr. BELIN. You saw him go around the corner of your home?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes. Mr. BELIN. What did you do or see then?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just went out, because we had already called the police, notified them, and we went out in the yard.

Mr. BELIN. You notified the police. Let me ask you this. Did you notify the police before or after you saw the boy with the gun?

Mrs. DAVIS. Let’s see, I think it was before.

Mr. BELIN. When you say before, what do you mean?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, before we saw the boy.

Mr. BELIN. Before you saw the boy you notified the police?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Well, let me try and reconstruct your actions then. You heard the shots?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You ran to the door?

Mr. BELIN. What did you see when you got to the door?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just saw, you know, the police car parked down there and we wondered what was going on, so we heard Mrs. Markham across the street calling.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, she told us to call the police, well, so we went to the house. We was already in the house, and we went to the phone and called the police.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Then we went back to the front door.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We saw the boy cutting across the street.

Mr. BEI.IN. Then what did do or see?

Mrs. DAVIS. After he disappeared around the corner we ran out in the front yard and down to see what had happened.

Mr. BELIN. Then is that when you saw the policeman?

Mrs. DAVIS. I saw the policeman lying on the street.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Did you see or do anything else? Did you see anyone else that you know come up to the policeman?

Mrs. DAVIS. No sir; there was a lot of people around there.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of day this was?

Mrs. DAVIS. I wouldn’t say for sure. But it was about 1:30. between 1:30 and 2.

Mr. BELIN. All right, after this, did police come out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes; they was already there.

Mr. BELIN. By the time you got out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just stood out there and watched. You know, tried to see how it all happened. But we saw part of it.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We stood out there until after the ambulance had come and picked him up.

(Boldface emphasis added by me)

[Michael Walton]

I just read the Croy statement of when he witnessed the Oswald assassination. He first says he saw Ruby "run into the crowd," but this is incorrect because if you watch the pre-shooting video, Ruby was already milling about in the crowd of reporters waiting for Oswald to come out.

He said he tried to grab Ruby before he shot Oswald. I find this dubious because again, in the video playback, no one attempts to grab Ruby as he approaches Oswald to gun him down. This is why I'm always a little skeptical about witness statements. And this is coming from a trained law enforcement officer.

I do support the murder of Tippit by others, thus, framing Oswald. The single fact that it was virtually impossible for him to have gotten back to his rooming house and then over to the Tippit scene in time to kill him proves he was set up for the murder.

I never knew about the half dollar found in Oswald's possession. This is great info and what are the odds of someone who was innocent and yet running around town after the president is murdered and then a policeman too, and then they find a half torn dollar bill in his possession?

I've always admired Armstrong's research, including the part about Jack Rubenstein being associated with Nixon back in the 1940's. But I've always been a little skeptical about his theory of Harvey and Lee. I do think there was someone going around doing things to make Oswald look crazy - like the guy who shot someone else's target at a range and that kind of thing - but the whole Harvey and Lee thing has always sounded a little bit too out there for me.

[Sandy Larsen]

According to the WC testimony of Barbara Jeannette Davis, she and her 16 year-old sister-in-law Virginia Davis heard two gunshots. They put on their shoes and ran to the front door to see what was happening. They heard their neighbor Mrs. Markham scream "He's dead - call the police!" At this time they saw a man walking at a normal pace, cutting across their front yard while emptying the shells from his gun into his left hand.

BJD: "He looked at her (Mrs. Markham) first, he looked at me, and then smiled and went around the corner."

BJD: "He was walking at his normal pace."

They did NOT see him discard the shells he had emptied into his hand. Barbara and Virginia then went back into the house, called the police and reported the shooting. They then went outside and walked to the policeman's car. They saw him on the ground, but did not get very close.

Mr. Ball: "How long did you stay there?"

BJD: "Not 5 minutes, because the police cars started coming, and I went back to my yard."

Later, Barbara found a shell in her yard which she gave to the police who were still at the scene. Several hours later Virginia found a second shell. That the night when the police came to take them to the lineup, they turned the shell over to the police. The both were certain that LHO was the 'man with the gun' that they had seen in their yard.

Based upon her testimony, I'd say police cars arrived about 10 minutes after the shots were fired.

Tom

Sure sounds like that smiling cop killer wanted to be seen, doesn't it? It's almost as if he knew that someone who looked quite a bit like himself was already at the Texas Theater ready to be busted--and the killer was headed that way.

Virginia Davis said the police were already at the Tippit murder scene when she and her sister stepped out their front door:

Mrs. DAVIS. We saw a boy walking, cutting across our yard.

Mr. BELIN. Where was he when you first saw him?

Mrs. DAVIS. He was about 3 feet from the sidewalk. Not the one that comes up to our front door, but the other sidewalk.

Mr. BELIN. He was about 3 feet from the front sidewalk on East l0th?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Had he come up to your sidewalk yet that comes up from East 10th to your front door?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, he had already. He was about half on the concrete, I think.

Mr. BELIN. He was half on that concrete?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you watch this man do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We watched him unload the shells out of his gun.

Mr. BELIN. What hand was he holding this gun in?

Mrs. Davis. In the right.

Mr. BELIN. He was holding the gun in his right hand. if you remember?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What was he doing with his left hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. He was emptying the shells in his left hand.

Mr. BELIN. Was the gun broken open. so to speak? In other words. I don’t know if you have ever seen a capgun. When you want to load the capgun, you have to kind of break it apart on a hinge. Was the gun broken apart like that, or was the barrel straight?

Mrs. DAVIS. It was like the real gun, little one.

Mr. BELIN. What do you mean it was just like?

Mrs. DAVIS. It was just as best as I can remember, it was a little pistol, and he was emptying the shells. Where the shell was coming nut, he was emptying the shells into his left hand.

Mr. BELIS. Did you see what he did with the shells when he emptied them into his left hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. After we, well, he was dropping them on the ground because we found two.

Mr. BELIN. You said that you found two? Did you see him drop them on the ground or not?

Mrs. DAVIS. So; we didn’t see him.

Mr. BELIN. You just saw him emptying shells in his hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. You didn’t actually see what he did with them when he got them in his hand, did you?

Mrs. DAVIS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You are nodding your head no?

Mrs. DAVIS. No.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you see the man do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, he just cut across. He disappeared from behind the corner of the house.

Mr. BELIN. Going toward what street?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, going toward Jefferson Street.

Mr. BELIN. He was headed on Patton in the direction toward Jefferson?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see him actually get to Patton Street?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes ; he was already around the corner.

Mr. BELIN. You saw him go around the corner of your home?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes. Mr. BELIN. What did you do or see then?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just went out, because we had already called the police, notified them, and we went out in the yard.

Mr. BELIN. You notified the police. Let me ask you this. Did you notify the police before or after you saw the boy with the gun?

Mrs. DAVIS. Let’s see, I think it was before.

Mr. BELIN. When you say before, what do you mean?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, before we saw the boy.

Mr. BELIN. Before you saw the boy you notified the police?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Well, let me try and reconstruct your actions then. You heard the shots?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You ran to the door?

Mr. BELIN. What did you see when you got to the door?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just saw, you know, the police car parked down there and we wondered what was going on, so we heard Mrs. Markham across the street calling.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, she told us to call the police, well, so we went to the house. We was already in the house, and we went to the phone and called the police.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Then we went back to the front door.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We saw the boy cutting across the street.

Mr. BEI.IN. Then what did do or see?

Mrs. DAVIS. After he disappeared around the corner we ran out in the front yard and down to see what had happened.

Mr. BELIN. Then is that when you saw the policeman?

Mrs. DAVIS. I saw the policeman lying on the street.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Did you see or do anything else? Did you see anyone else that you know come up to the policeman?

Mrs. DAVIS. No sir; there was a lot of people around there.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of day this was?

Mrs. DAVIS. I wouldn’t say for sure. But it was about 1:30. between 1:30 and 2.

Mr. BELIN. All right, after this, did police come out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes; they was already there.

Mr. BELIN. By the time you got out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just stood out there and watched. You know, tried to see how it all happened. But we saw part of it.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We stood out there until after the ambulance had come and picked him up.

(Boldface emphasis added by me)

Based upon Virginia Davis's WC testimony as quoted by Jim, and the testimony of her sister in law, Barbara Davis, as reported by Tom, it looks like the chain of events went as follows:

1. They heard gunshots.

2. Wondering what happened, they ran to their front door.

3. They saw Tippit's car and Helen Markham screamed to them, "He's dead, call the police.

4. They saw the shooter cutting across their front yard and disappear around the corner of their house.

5. They called the police. (According to Virginia, #5 occurred before #4.)

6. They went out in their front yard.

7. Some time thereafter they went over to Tippit's car. The police were arriving by then.

8. They stood out there till the ambulance left.

There is nothing in their testimonies indicating that they saw Officer Croy specifically. When Virginia Davis said the police were "already there," she wasn't talking about when she first went to the front door. It was later. (Jim says the police had arrived by the time the Davises walked out their front door. But there is nothing indicating that.) And Virginia Davis didn't say a policeman (singular) was "already there"... she said "the police," which means multiple policemen. Obviously not referring specifically to an Officer Croy who had arrived very early, on foot.

[Sandy Larsen]

[Croy] said he tried to grab Ruby before he shot Oswald. I find this dubious because again, in the video playback, no one attempts to grab Ruby as he approaches Oswald to gun him down. This is why I'm always a little skeptical about witness statements. And this is coming from a trained law enforcement officer.

I haven't watched the video of Ruby shooting Oswald lately, but I did read Croy's WC testimony regarding the shooting. From reading it I got the impression that there were a line of people (reporters?) standing in front of him and Ruby. And that Ruby rushed though that line, like a football player would. If so, that could explain why you don't see Croy trying to grab Ruby. Because he was presumably hidden behind that line

On the other hand, I also got the impression that Croy ran after Ruby, and tried to grab him, right after the shooting. But, according to Croy there were too many others trying to grab Ruby. And so he didn't have a chance to.

[Jim Hargrove]

There is nothing in their testimonies indicating that they saw Officer Croy specifically. When Virginia Davis said the police were "already there," she wasn't talking about when she first went to the front door. It was later. (Jim says the police had arrived by the time the Davises walked out their front door. But there is nothing indicating that.) And Virginia Davis didn't say a policeman (singular) was "already there"... she said "the police," which means multiple policemen. Obviously not referring specifically to an Officer Croy who had arrived very early, on foot.

Mr. BELIN. All right, after this, did police come out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes; they was already there.

Mr. BELIN. By the time you got out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Who else could she have been referring to other than Ken Croy? Croy has said he was the first policeman on the scene. A consensus of assassination researchers, looking at all the evidence, believes Croy was the first cop there. Who else could it be? How did he just happen to be there seconds after the shooter passed the Davises?

Edited July 3, 2016 by Jim Hargrove

[Michael Walton]

On the other hand, I also got the impression that Croy ran after Ruby...

Sandy,

All good points. I've always found it fascinating how witnesses describe things vs. what really happened based on photo or film evidence.

There is a clip of Oswald briefly glancing over toward Ruby's direction just before he's shot. It seems to me that Ruby didn't really have to barge through anyone, that he pretty much was standing sideways up in the front row of reporters waiting to do the deed. Sorry I can't find that clip but I've seen it.

And here is a good photo:

Again, not saying Croy didn't try to stop him as he said in his statement. Croy makes it sound like he got to Ruby before he actually shot him but the above photo shows he pretty much went in unimpeded.

And I've always LOVED the pained look on Fritz's face. I've always thought of it as the "Oh, boy, here we go!" expression.