New Theory: Cuban Double Agent Led Plot Against JFK

[Douglas Caddy]

 

http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/new-jfk-assassination-theory-cuban-double-agent-led-plot/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow&sr_share=twitter

[Chris Newton]

These are the references I can find for Bazata:

A memo from Conien:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=14517

Security Briefing Process Sheet: Conien routed to Helms:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=23083

FBI Report on Victor Emanuel (Art Bazata - unknown if this is same individual):

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=125511

No references to Dussaq (at MF) except an Elena Dussaq that was a member of DRE

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=18926#relPageId=4&tab=page

[Michael Walton]

Here's the clincher for me (from the article):

Dallas was selected as the location for the assassination “as far back as 1961,” according to Bazata, since it was an anti-Kennedy “hothouse for murder” with one of the most corrupt police departments in the country.

The clincher that this is all hokum.  Really?  Dallas selected as the kill site during the same year JFK was sworn in?  Wow, I mean...just wow.

Lucien?  Isn't this the same corny plot story that they used for TMWKK series? And I remember years ago reading an article about some goofy BS that Oswald was supposed to have fired warning shots while the real assassins would do the killing. So it sounds like this book is repurposing a decades-old tale?

OMG - people would do *anything* to make a buck off of this thing.  Disgusting.

[Chris Newton]

16 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Lucien?  Isn't this the same corny plot story that they used for TMWKK series? And I remember years ago reading an article about some goofy BS that Oswald was supposed to have fired warning shots while the real assassins would do the killing. So it sounds like this book is repurposing a decades-old tale?

Michael,

I don't know if Lucien Conien was involved or not, but a determination based on a "feeling", (i.e. corny), on a theory presented by someone else decades ago should neither qualify or disqualify a potential investigative thread. There are tons of references to Lucien Conien in the extant JFK references. What do you know about him?

[Larry Hancock]

Chris, what I do know after looking into all the earlier Conein scenarios is that he was in Vietnam in October and November and there is a solid string of documentation on that including all his own communications in the weeks beforehand dealing with the coup and his efforts to get the targets of the coup out of the country. Afterwards he was called back to the US and put on the carpet to explain exactly how everything had gone wrong and to explain the murders and his own failure. As point man in the coup, in contact with the coup plotters he was on the radar constantly in DC and communications were ongoing.  His trip back to DC is also documented.  Now given all that, I could not find anything specifically stating where he was on Nov. 22 but I certainly find plenty of evidence that he had his hands full before and immediately after the coup. I also found that even with his position, he was unable to do something as simple as get access to an aircraft to fly the brothers out of the country as the coup was coming down - and if he couldn't do that, which was officially sanctioned with DC behind him it speaks poorly to his span of control,

Edited November 14, 2016 by Larry Hancock

[Michael Walton]

Lucien is mentioned in the NY Post article. Wasn't the whole French/Lucien/Corsican plot debunked in TMWKK?

How could they have selected in '61 that Dallas would be the kill city? It doesn't seem logical or plausible.

[Ron Ecker]

15 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

How could they have selected in '61 that Dallas would be the kill city? It doesn't seem logical or plausible.

It did have Dealey Plaza, a very good ambush site. I wouldn't be surprised if someone compiled a top ten list of such sites in 1961, if a list didn't already exist.

 

 

[Paul Trejo]

17 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Here's the clincher for me (from the article):

Dallas was selected as the location for the assassination “as far back as 1961,” according to Bazata, since it was an anti-Kennedy “hothouse for murder” with one of the most corrupt police departments in the country.

The clincher that this is all hokum.  Really?  Dallas selected as the kill site during the same year JFK was sworn in?  Wow, I mean...just wow.

Lucien?  Isn't this the same corny plot story that they used for TMWKK series? And I remember years ago reading an article about some goofy BS that Oswald was supposed to have fired warning shots while the real assassins would do the killing. So it sounds like this book is repurposing a decades-old tale?

OMG - people would do *anything* to make a buck off of this thing.  Disgusting.

Michael,

I agree with this 100%

After half a century of suspecting the CIA, the Mafia and the so-called "military industrial complex" however, many people struggle to consider more logical alternatives.

A plot that involved local Dallas people is most likely of all.  So the 1995 book, Treachery in Dallas, by Walt Brown, was the dawn of new thinking in JFK Research.

Also, the recent book by Joseph McBride, Into the Nightmare: My Search for the Killers of President John F. Kennedy and Officer J.D. Tippit  (2013) pushes in the same direction.

A more recent book with more promise, by Jeff Caufield, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015) is a 900 page tome that also pushes in the right direction.  Caufield begins brilliantly with new FOIA released FBI documents.

Sadly, after the first 450 pages, Caufield runs out of steam, and then he falls back into that old Gary Wean theory about a "false flag" JFK assassination plot, with Oswald firing "warning shots."  It was an unfortunate ending to a brilliant beginning.

Whoever the actual shooters turn out to be -- they will belong to a local Dallas plot, IMHO, and not to any US Government or Mafia plot.  That's the biggest change in JFK Research in the 21st century, IMHO.

Finally -- as for this thread -- LHO was himself a wannabe double-agent, working to assassinate Fidel Castro.  So, there is some grain of truth in the scenario.  Jim Garrison's work was not all in vain.  But even Jim Garrison failed to see how the Cuban Anticommunists were drawn into General Walker's plot.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 14, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Ron Ecker]

Paul,

Why did Johnson, Hoover, the CIA, the military, the whole shebang, go to such lengths to cover up "a local Dallas plot"? What power did the local Dallas plotters have, for example, to control the autopsy? And why does the cover-up of a local Dallas plot continue for over 50 years?

 

 

 

 

 

[Douglas Caddy]

22 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Here's the clincher for me (from the article):

Dallas was selected as the location for the assassination “as far back as 1961,” according to Bazata, since it was an anti-Kennedy “hothouse for murder” with one of the most corrupt police departments in the country.

The clincher that this is all hokum.  Really?  Dallas selected as the kill site during the same year JFK was sworn in?  Wow, I mean...just wow.

Lucien?  Isn't this the same corny plot story that they used for TMWKK series? And I remember years ago reading an article about some goofy BS that Oswald was supposed to have fired warning shots while the real assassins would do the killing. So it sounds like this book is repurposing a decades-old tale?

OMG - people would do *anything* to make a buck off of this thing.  Disgusting.

Dallas probably was selected in 1961 as the site to kill Kennedy.

Joan Mellen in her new book, Faustian Bargains: Lyndon Johnson and Mac Wallace in the Robber Baron Culture of Texas, writes (p. 162):

"Early in 1964, the Senate voted not to extend the [Bobby] Baker inquiry by a vote of forty-two to thirty-three. All forty-two votes came from the Democrats. Among tidbits coming to the attention of the Warren Commission as it investigated the Kennedy assassination was that Don Reynolds had been heard to say 'the FBI knew that Johnson was behind the assassination.' Reynolds denied that he ever said such a thing. He did reveal that during the swearing in of John F. Kennedy, Bobby Baker had said, "The S.O.B. will never live out his term and will die a violent death.'"

 

[Michael Walton]

A newspaper article wrote that Tampa and Chicago had also been possible murder sites, these places leading up to 11/22.  Are we supposed to just completely ignore that and accept that Dallas was picked in '61?  This really seems too far-fetched for me.  Yes, there were people back then who hated all of the Kennedys with a passion like people felt when Obama was sworn in.  The Bay of Pigs fiasco certainly created a lot more enemies for JFK.

The real tipping point came after the Cuban Missile Crisis when he refused to invade Cuba and start WWIII.  I think that was the real catalyst that began the planning for his eventual murder.  I hardly think that there was a group of Bad Guys in '61 standing around a map of the U.S., one points to Dallas, the other nods, and smiles, and they determine it's Dallas.

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 10:53 AM, Ron Ecker said:

Paul,

Why did Johnson, Hoover, the CIA, the military, the whole shebang, go to such lengths to cover up "a local Dallas plot"? What power did the local Dallas plotters have, for example, to control the autopsy? And why does the cover-up of a local Dallas plot continue for over 50 years?

Ron,

This was more than 50 years ago, and times have changed radically.  We don't remember how different America was, I suspect.  JFK could be a womanizer in the White House, and the press would just ignore it.  J. Edgar Hoover and General Walker could be gay, and the press would just ignore it.

The main issue in 1963 was not Vietnam, it was Cuba and Fidel Castro, and of course the USSR supporting Castro.  That was the terror of the day.  J. Edgar Hoover said in his WC testimony that the Radical Right was as dangerous in the USA as the Radical Left.  Hoover saw them as equal.

In the USA in 1963 we had a group called the Minutemen.  They were a heavily armed militia, coast to coast, and they were paranoid that the Communists in Cuba were going to invade America and take over.  (There was a movie script made about this period, released in 1984, starring Patrick Swayze, named Red Dawn.)  It was a real fear.  

IMHO, the whole US Government was terrified that if the Radical Right in the USA were identified as the JFK killers, that this would have started a backlash against the Radical Right.   Professor David Wrone said that in his neighborhood, on that day, men went out with axes that afternoon to chop down all the John Birch Society billboards.  People were outraged.

Yet, if there was violence against the Radical Right, the FBI had to consider that the Minutemen were very heavily armed, and they were coast to coast, and the FBI did not have an accurate estimate of how many there were.  So, if the FBI needed help, they would have to call out the National Guard.

Now -- if you call out the National Guard during the Cold War -- with the USSR and the whole world watching -- it was a potentially explosive situation.  What if the USSR dared to become involved in our armed civil dispute?   It was a problem of National Security.

So, Ron, IMHO, that's why Hoover, and LBJ and Dulles and Warren all agreed that the Truth about the JFK assassination must be kept a secret for 75 years.  It really was a question of National Security in 1964.  Exactly like they said.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 15, 2016 by Paul Trejo
grammar

[Ron Ecker]

Paul,

That's interesting, but I find it hard to believe that the government somehow knew that the Radical Right did it before the body was even cold. Remember that the Secret Service stole the body from Parkland. Did they do that to protect the Radical Right? If you want to believe that they stole the body simply because Jackie  wouldn't leave without it, then I still find it hard to believe that by the time a sham military autopsy got away a few hours later the government already knew that the Radical Right (and not, for example, some rogue CIA or military intelligence agents) did it and that it had to be covered up.

I think there's a very good reason why the government knew who did it with such amazing quickness, or I daresay even before it happened.

 

 

 

[Paul Trejo]

12 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

Paul,

That's interesting, but I find it hard to believe that the government somehow knew that the Radical Right did it before the body was even cold. Remember that the Secret Service stole the body from Parkland. Did they do that to protect the Radical Right? If you want to believe that they stole the body simply because Jackie  wouldn't leave without it, then I still find it hard to believe that by the time a sham military autopsy got away a few hours later the government already knew that the Radical Right (and not, for example, some rogue CIA or military intelligence agents) did it and that it had to be covered up.

I think there's a very good reason why the government knew who did it with such amazing quickness, or I daresay even before it happened.

Ron,

That's a reasonable point.  Yet I believe that J. Edgar Hoover figured out everything by 3pm CST on 11/22/1963.  Again, my source on this is Professor David Wrone.  There are FBI documents showing that Hoover telephoned RFK by 3pm in order to tell RFK that Lee Harvey Oswald was never a member of the Communist Party, and never an official of the FPCC.

Hoover knew this because he had contacts all over the USA who knew every Communist and every FPCC officer.  Hoover also had a fat file on LHO ever since LHO returned to the USA from the USSR.

All of the news out of Dallas -- from 12:30pm to 3pm CST -- was that LHO was a Communist and an FPCC officer, first and foremost.  So the heat was on the FBI for failing to identify LHO as dangerous in Dallas.  (Before that day was over, DPD Lieutenant Jack Revill accused James Hosty of boasting that the FBI knew that LHO was a dangerous Communist in Dallas.)   

Immediately after the JFK murder, J. Edgar Hoover began to ransack his files on LHO, and by 3pm he knew the basic facts.  The FPCC that LHO had exploited in New Orleans was a Fake FPCC -- and Hoover knew that -- and no doubt Hoover knew that it was as 544 Camp Street, and no doubt he knew that Guy Banister, a former FBI agent, was in charge of that Fake FPCC in New Orleans.

This allowed Hoover to put everything together by 3pm.   Hoover realized it was a plot involving Guy Banister, who was an outspoken racist, in the same political camp as General Walker.  It was really easy to figure this out in 1963.

According to Professor David Wrone, the "Lone Nut" theory of LHO was born at 3pm on 11/22/1963.  It was in response to the "Communist LHO" conspiracy theory that was coming out of Dallas.  I say, along with Dr. Jeff Caufield, that General Walker was the foremost spokesman of the "Communist LHO" CT. 

I used to believe that Hoover was part of the JFK Kill Team, since Hoover's response of a "Lone Nut" Oswald was so darn quick.   Now I believe that the JFK Cover-up Team and the JFK Kill Team were opposed to each other. 

The JFK Kill Team mainly wanted to invade Cuba.  The JFK Cover-up Team mainly wanted to foil the JFK Kill Team from making further progress.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 15, 2016 by Paul Trejo
grammar