Sylvia Odio, Lee Harvey Oswald and Harry Dean

[Ernie Lazar]

1 minute ago, Paul Trejo said:

Ernie,

The children of Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Guy Gabaldon are still alive. 

Just in case they know anything from their parents, they would be interesting witnesses to US History.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

They are not "witnesses".  At best, whatever they might tell you is unprovable hearsay.  I seriously doubt that any of the principals in your "JBS plot" theory told their children (or any other family members) that they were participating in a conspiracy to murder the President of the United States.

[Paul Trejo]

2 minutes ago, Ernie Lazar said:

They are not "witnesses".  At best, whatever they might tell you is unprovable hearsay.  I seriously doubt that any of the principals in your "JBS plot" theory told their children (or any other family members) that they were participating in a conspiracy to murder the President of the United States.

Ernie,

You keep jumping to conclusions based on your bias.  There is still a chance that among their "family heirlooms," these children of Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Guy Gabaldon may have their parents' memoirs, diaries, lockboxes or other artifacts to 1963.  There is always that chance.

For example, the children of Roscoe White did find such artifacts.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 31, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

1 minute ago, Paul Trejo said:

Ernie,

You keep jumping to conclusions based on your bias.  There is still a chance that among their "family heirlooms," these children of Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Guy Gabaldon may have their parents' memoirs, diaries, lockboxes or other artifacts to 1963.  There is always that chance.

For example, the children of Roscoe White did find such artifacts.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

"Bias" is not the basis of my conclusion.  What you never are willing to acknowledge (because you are only a shill for Harry) is that there are standard research procedures and protocols and standard rules of evidence and logic which apply to ALL arguments being presented.

"FAMILY HEIRLOOMS":   You think that children of these folks kept "memoirs, diaries, lockboxes or other artifacts" for decades after the death of their parents without once looking at them? OR---alternatively, they DID review all those items and they discovered earth-shattering info about plans for the murder of JFK but decided to ignore everything they found and not share it with anybody?  Give me a break.

As a point of personal privilege:  Every time you open your mouth (in writing) you malign me and accuse me of "bias".  However, the ONLY proven disinformation and disingenuous statements/assertions/insinuations ever revealed in ALL of the threads which discuss Harry Dean here on EF have been those attributable to YOU and to Harry.

It is entirely acceptable and normal for someone to state that they have arrived at a different interpretation of available factual evidence -- BUT it is despicable and nothing more than intellectual dishonesty and cowardice on YOUR part to ALWAYS accuse your critics and skeptics of "bias" -- particularly when some people have gone to extraordinary lengths and expense (unlike yourself or Harry) to acquire the only primary source documentary evidence that exists concerning Harry and his story.

Even worse, there is a very long record of your messages on EF where YOU have made totally false statements and conclusions.  

All of us were ultimately able to recognize your gross distortions and your profound errors in analysis, judgment, and conclusions (as well as your pervasive and delusional malice) AFTER we were able to review the ORIGINAL documentary evidence which YOU had NOTHING to do with acquiring.  So--for you to always use "bias" as your default description of EVERYBODY who arrives at conclusions different from yours -- is the ultimate insult to ordinary decency and normal human intelligence.

 

[Paul Trejo]

The witness of Harry Dean to the plot of General Walker to assassinate JFK and blame LHO will be remembered for all time in US History, I predict.

It will start on Thursday 26 October 2017 when the JFK Records Act comes to maturity.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 1, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

1 minute ago, Paul Trejo said:

The witness of Harry Dean to the plot of General Walker to assassinate JFK and blame LHO will be remembered for all time in US History, I predict.

It will start on Thursday 26 October 2017 when the JFK Records Act comes to maturity.

--Paul Trejo 

In order to be "remembered" doesn't something first have to exist somewhere?

[Paul Trejo]

3 hours ago, Ernie Lazar said:

In order to be "remembered" doesn't something first have to exist somewhere?

Ernie,

I'm glad you raised the question.   Now we can finally get back to the theme of this thread, which is Dr. Jeffrey Caufield's new book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).  Caufield dedicated a full section in his 900 page milestone to Harry Dean.   Here is part of what Jeff Caufield said:

Dean had supported Castro before anyone knew Castro was a Communist, be he had a change of heart when Castro's Communist ideology was revealed, at which point Dean became a volunteer FBI informant working against the pro-Castro forces.  Dean called the Chicago office of the FBI, and told them he had been elected to be the recording secretary of the Chicago chapter of the FPCC.  He also gave them information about Cuban nationals in the "26th of July Movement" (Castro's movement).  [Caufield, p. 591]

This is only the start of what US History will remember about Harry Dean.  Dean's unsuspected role in US Cold War politics from 1959-1963 will become famous because they will be shown, I predict, when it is further revealed that this will lead Harry to the doorstep of the JFK assassination. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Steve Thomas]

On 11/28/2016 at 4:03 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Harry Dean's memoirs say that one day in mid-September, Gabby Gabaldon received a large cash donation from California Congressman John Rousselot, and he gave part of this to Loran and Larry.  After their trailer was loaded, Gabaldon gave Loran and Larry instructions to park the trailer somewhere, and pick up LHO in New Orleans, and drive LHO to Mexico City by going through Dallas, by September 26, 1963.  
--Paul Trejo 

If you look at a map, geographically speaking, this makes no sense.

 

Dallas, TX is 521 miles northwest of New Orleans. That would be a round trip of 1,000 miles out of your way.

You don't go from New Orleans to Mexico City by way of Dallas. You'd go through Houston.

Someone, (whoever that might be) would not undertake that trip just to get a letter translated.

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Thomas Graves]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

If you look at a map, geographically speaking, this makes no sense.

 

Dallas, TX is 521 miles northwest of New Orleans. That would be a round trip of 1,000 miles out of your way.

You don't go from New Orleans to Mexico City by way of Dallas. You'd go through Houston.

Someone, (whoever that might be) would not undertake that trip just to get a letter translated.

 

Steve Thomas

 

I'm probably wrong on this, but wasn't that trailer destined for Florida?  Or am I thinking of a different one?

--  Tommy

[Ernie Lazar]

12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Ernie,

I'm glad you raised the question.   Now we can finally get back to the theme of this thread, which is Dr. Jeffrey Caufield's new book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).  Caufield dedicated a full section in his 900 page milestone to Harry Dean.   Here is part of what Jeff Caufield said:

Dean had supported Castro before anyone knew Castro was a Communist, be he had a change of heart when Castro's Communist ideology was revealed, at which point Dean became a volunteer FBI informant working against the pro-Castro forces.  Dean called the Chicago office of the FBI, and told them he had been elected to be the recording secretary of the Chicago chapter of the FPCC.  He also gave them information about Cuban nationals in the "26th of July Movement" (Castro's movement).  [Caufield, p. 591]

This is only the start of what US History will remember about Harry Dean.  Dean's unsuspected role in US Cold War politics from 1959-1963 will become famous because they will be shown, I predict, when it is further revealed that this will lead Harry to the doorstep of the JFK assassination. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

There are several different levels of discussion which your comment could trigger.

1.  RECORDING SECRETARY OF FPCC

We have absolutely no evidence of any kind concerning what Harry actually did as "Recording Secretary" of the FPCC chapter in Chicago.  

Apparently, it was virtually nothing.  Why do I say that?  Because it is extremely unusual for the FBI to have an actual official inside a highly suspect organization, and, particularly, an official who normally has access to membership and leader names/addresses, planned activities, and other pertinent data, and perhaps even financial information but, nevertheless, the FBI almost immediately discards that person when they offer to provide information on an ongoing basis.  

In fact, about 3 years after Harry joined FPCC, the FBI accepted the assistance of one individual (about the same age as Harry) who volunteered his help.  He was a well-known segregationist who had started a whites-only church in his small community and he was a member of several white supremacist organizations. Of particular significance, this person joined the most violent Klan in our nation's history.  The FBI accepted this person's offer of assistance and they groomed him as an informant precisely because of his position within that Klan organization --- he was essentially the "Recording Secretary" and Administrative Asst to the Grand Dragon.  

Perhaps even more relevant, as another example, is George Edward DeMerle.  

1.1  Like Harry, DeMerle had a criminal history and a record of mental instability.  In Demerle's case, he had psychiatric therapy for 2 years.   Harry was born in December 1927.  DeMerle was born in  August 1930.

1.2  Like Harry, DeMerle had, during wartime service, been AWOL -- but unlike Harry (or at least what Harry claims), George was given a dishonorable discharge after being court-martialed for being AWOL.

1.3  Like Harry, George was not a well-educated person. He did not complete high school but later obtained a high-school-equivalency certificate.

1.4  Like Harry, George was married with a young child.  Like Harry, George worked with his hands (George was a welder).

1.5  Like Harry, DeMerle became infatuated with a radical left organization (Progressive Labor Party) which the FBI characterized as "where our informant coverage is thin".

1.6  Like Harry, DeMerle became a JBS member (1964-1965) and a Minutemen member.  

1.7  Like Harry, AFTER a full background investigation was done, FBI HQ denied the field office's initial request to use George as a "PSI" (potential security informant).  

1.8  Like Harry, HQ advised the field office SAC to "tactfully" tell George "that his services were not required".  Then HQ added:  "Of course, there is no objection to your continuing to accept any information he might voluntarily offer just as in the case of any other citizen.  However, he should not be given any encouragement to furnish such information to your office."

1.9  Like Harry, DeMerle started voluntarily providing his local FBI office with information which HE thought the FBI might like to know about -- including literature he obtained at meetings of various radical left organizations.

2.0  Interestingly, two months AFTER FBI HQ denied its field office permission to use DeMerle as an informant, the field repeated their request because they wanted DeMerle to attend a meeting in Canada of the Revolutionary Contingent -- described by FBI as "a militantly radical group dedicated to support struggles for national liberation throughout the world by whatever means possible."  The RC planned to meet with Cuban representatives in Canada.   But HQ again refused permission - citing DeMerle's criminal background and mental history.

3.  However, a couple years later, FBI HQ approved development of DeMerle as an informant (but closely supervised) because he was in a unique position to provide information which the FBI wanted.

4.  UNLIKE Harry, all of DeMerle's information was recorded on the standard FBI form used for its informant reports (FD-302)

5.  UNLIKE Harry, DeMerle's information was routinely channeled into numerous different subject files because of the value of information which DeMerle provided.

6.  When Harry voluntarily continued to provide information to the FBI (after he moved to Los Angeles), most of the time, Harry's information was just filed away, i.e. no further action was taken (with one exception).

WHAT SHOULD WE CONCLUDE FROM THIS EVIDENCE?

1.  Although there are many similarities between Harry and George (i.e.  with respect to age, marital status, employment history, family history, organizations joined, derogatory background info, and with respect to contacts with the FBI) -- there is a profound difference with respect to how the FBI evaluated their respective potential as information sources.

2.  In DeMerle's case, there is a huge amount of information which George provided over several years on a regular schedule which is recorded in great detail on the FBI's standard form for recording what their confidential sources and informants provided (FD-302).  Those documents reflect the name of the case agent assigned to handle DeMerle (and one backup)  In addition, there are many specific documents concerning what amounts of money which the FBI paid DeMerle (such as when he was paid $37 for lost pay for attending a meeting of Revolutionary Contingent plus his travel expense to/from that meeting).

3.  By contrast, there is absolutely NOTHING in Harry Dean's FBI files which reflects anything except irregular (mostly phone) contacts by Harry.  Those contacts were recorded on the FBI standard form (FD-71) used by whatever Agent was on duty that day to accept general intake calls or contacts from the public.  Several of those Agents expressed derogatory evaluations of Harry's demeanor or lack of ability to speak coherently.  The information provided by Harry was of no particular value and was rarely channeled into any FBI case file.  In some cases, Agents wrote "no acknowledgement needed" on Harry's messages.

4.  Because of the way in which Paul Trejo's mind works -- he thinks Harry's narrative is not only credible but historically significant and important--despite the fact that FBI files reflect a totally different reality -- especially when compared to someone like George DeMerle.  Even when Harry was "Recording Secretary" of FPCC (and it should be noted that Harry was in that position for a relatively brief period of time) -- he did not have any particularly useful information -- which is why FBI-Chicago told Harry that his assistance was not needed---particularly since the FBI already had at least 4 informants inside the FPCC-Chicago chapter at that time.  Then, when Harry sought to resurrect his "information-sharing" role with the FBI office in Los Angeles, he was disparaged as a "mental case" and his information was just filed away.

5.  Everybody (except Paul Trejo) can see the obvious here.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Ernie Lazar

[Ernie Lazar]

9 minutes ago, Ernie Lazar said:

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Ernie Lazar

[Paul Trejo]

5 hours ago, Ernie Lazar said:

<snip>

4.  Because of the way in which Paul Trejo's mind works -- he thinks Harry's narrative is not only credible but historically significant and important--despite the fact that FBI files reflect a totally different reality -- especially when compared to someone like George DeMerle.  Even when Harry was "Recording Secretary" of FPCC (and it should be noted that Harry was in that position for a relatively brief period of time) -- he did not have any particularly useful information -- which is why FBI-Chicago told Harry that his assistance was not needed---particularly since the FBI already had at least 4 informants inside the FPCC-Chicago chapter at that time.  Then, when Harry sought to resurrect his "information-sharing" role with the FBI office in Los Angeles, he was disparaged as a "mental case" and his information was just filed away.

5.  Everybody (except Paul Trejo) can see the obvious here.

Ernie,

I am well aware of the FBI reports that suggested (not as medical testimony, but as personal opinion) that Harry Dean was "nuts."

However, that is a common epithet thrown around in the JFK conspiracy community.   For example, the FBI also said that Sylvia Odio was "nuts" and actually Mrs. Odio was and remains a brilliant person -- highly educated and supremely articulate.

It was simply that Mrs. Odio presented eye-witness testimony that the FBI dogma of a "Lone Nut" Oswald was full of baloney.

So the FBI said that Sylvia Odio was "nuts."

Only the biased will jump to conclusions based on hostile remarks of non-medical FBI agents about any given information source.

The truth is that Sylvia Odio was brilliant, and also a truth-teller.

To extend from this, I maintain that Harry Dean -- who claimed that General Walker in September 1963 named Lee Harvey Oswald as his patsy in his plot to assassinate JFK in Dallas -- was also a truth-teller.

So, the FBI said that Harry Dean was "nuts".   

That is to say simply that Harry Dean presented eye-witness testimony that the FBI dogma of a "Lone Nut" Oswald was full of baloney.

Harry Dean, IMHO, is actually brilliant.  Although he is uneducated by academic standards (i.e. Harry Dean did not finish school, but had to go to work young to help his father), nevertheless, Harry Dean remained fairly well-read for his time, and traveled far and wide in support of FIdel Castro in the early days -- and then in opposition to Fidel Castro in the latter days.

Yes -- I said that Harry Dean is brilliant.  His biography will one day become important to US History, I predict.  That ought to start after the final week of October, this year, if my estimations are correct.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 1, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

12 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

If you look at a map, geographically speaking, this makes no sense.

Dallas, TX is 521 miles northwest of New Orleans. That would be a round trip of 1,000 miles out of your way.

You don't go from New Orleans to Mexico City by way of Dallas. You'd go through Houston.

Someone, (whoever that might be) would not undertake that trip just to get a letter translated.

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Great question.   Please allow me to offer my opinion about this with regard to Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO):

1.  LHO -- as well-known by Loran Hall and Larry Howard, who were driving LHO to Mexico City from New Orleans -- was assigned by Guy Banister and Clay Shaw to try like the dickens to get an instant visa into Havana, Cuba.

2.  LHO was probably offered a huge cash reward if he was successful in his Cuba mission.   LHO wanted to complete this.

3.  LHO, however, was justifiably nervous about his prospects.  He had never done this in Mexico City before.  

4.  LHO had only a Fake resumé of his Fake FPCC in New Orleans, with a Fake membership, and himself as the Fake officer of it.

5.  That Fake resumé consisted of newspaper clippings from New Orleans showing LHO was in a street fight with Carlos Bringuier, and on a radio program and a TV program with Ed Butler and Carlos Bringuier.

6.  The theory was that the naïve consuls at the Cuban Consulate in Mexico City would be impressed, and give LHO an instant visa into Cuba.

7.  But what if it didn't work?   What could LHO do as a Plan B, so that he could still collect his large reward in the near future?

8.  IMHO, it was this worry that LHO shared with Loran Hall and Larry Howard, as they traveled from New Orleans to Texas.

9.  IMHO, it was Loran Hall who came up with Plan B.

10.  Loran Hall, at the next gas station, called his mercenary friend in Dallas, Rolando Masferrer, with this problem.  Rolando told Loran Hall all about Sylvia Odio, who lived next door to Rolando.  

11.  Rolando knew a lot.  Sylvia's father was in a Cuban jail cell (as Loran Hall was once).  Her father was a leader of JURE (as Sylvia was).  JURE had people in Cuba -- and could possibly help LHO get into Cuba.

12.  The key to getting an instant passage into Cuba wasn't in newspaper clippings -- but in KNOWING SOMEBODY inside Cuba -- especially double agents who had influence in Fidel Castro's government.

13.  So, Plan B was all about convincing Sylvia Odio -- by playing on her love of her father -- to get people in JURE to vouch for "Leon" Oswald.

14.  Brief note here -- there is no Spanish name, "Lee."   That is a Chinese surname for the Spanish-speaker.  To communicate in Spanish quickly, that name had to be changed to the common Spanish equivalent, "Leon."

15.  So, starting out in the morning of September 24, 1963, instead of traveling directly to Mexico City (which would have taken only one day, if they didn't sleep), Loran Hall decided to take a detour to Dallas.

16.  They did so.  They arrived there dirty and tired, but Loran Hall made his pitch.  Sadly for them, Sylvia Odio wasn't buying.   So, they got back on the road to rush to Mexico City.

17.  They arrived in Mexico City in their car on September 26, 1963, according to Mexican Immigration records.

18.  Therefore, IMHO, everything that Harry Dean suggests about Loran Hall, Larry Howard, LHO and Sylvia Odio, has the ring of historical fact.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 1, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

22 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Ernie,

I am well aware of the FBI reports that suggested (not as medical testimony, but as personal opinion) that Harry Dean was "nuts."

However, that is a common epithet thrown around in the JFK conspiracy community.   For example, the FBI also said that Sylvia Odio was "nuts" and actually Mrs. Odio was and remains a brilliant person -- highly educated and supremely articulate.

It was simply that Mrs. Odio presented eye-witness testimony that the FBI dogma of a "Lone Nut" Oswald was full of baloney.

So the FBI said that Sylvia Odio was "nuts."

Only the biased will jump to conclusions based on random remarks of non-medical FBI agents about any given information source.

The truth is that Sylvia Odio was brilliant, and also a truth-teller.

To extend from this, I maintain that Harry Dean -- who claimed that General Walker in September 1963 named Lee Harvey Oswald as his patsy in his plot to assassinate JFK in Dallas -- was also a truth-teller.

So, the FBI said that Harry Dean was "nuts".   

That is to say simply that Harry Dean presented eye-witness testimony that the FBI dogma of a "Lone Nut" Oswald was full of baloney.

Harry Dean, IMHO, is actually brilliant.  Although he is uneducated by academic standards (i.e. Harry Dean did not finish school, but had to go to work young to help his father), nevertheless, Harry Dean remained fairly well-read for his time, and traveled far and wide in support of FIdel Castro in the early days -- and then in opposition to Fidel Castro in the latter days.

Yes -- I said that Harry Dean is brilliant.  His biography will one day become important to US History, I predict.  That ought to start after the final week of October, this year, if my estimations are correct.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

1.  As usual, Paul, you cannot ACCURATELY summarize or paraphrase what evidence actually shows.

2.  As is the case with all law enforcement officers, FBI Agents were trained to ask probing questions and to notice personality quirks, body language, eye contact, and other physical traits which could be used to determine whether or not someone was credible, rational. and logical OR perhaps emotionally unstable or highly suspect in terms of their grip upon reality.

3.  Based upon their in-person contacts with Harry (visits to his home as well as phone conversations), several FBI Special Agents concluded exactly what Harry's own wife concluded (based upon her conversations with a neighbor who drove her to and from work every day), i.e. that Harry had definite emotional/psychological issues.  In other words -- the FBI merely used their personal observations and contacts with Harry to validate what other people had already told the FBI because of their own personal contacts with Harry.

4.  EDWIN WALKER:  

4.1  It should be explicitly recognized (for intellectual honesty purposes) that NOBODY has ever even been able to establish (through independent confirmation) that Edwin Walker was ever in southern California at the time of his alleged "meeting" in September 1963.

4.2  Furthermore, it should be explicitly recognized, that we also have no independent confirmation that Walker met in September 1963 with the persons whom you (and Harry) always mention in your messages (i.e. Galbadon, Hall, Howard, Rousselot)

4.3  Lastly; it should be explicitly recognized that we do not even have confirming factual evidence that Walker knew Harry Dean existed.  There is nothing in Walker's personal papers.  There is also nothing about any JBS plot to murder JFK.  I don't recall you even mentioning that you have evidence showing that Walker ever corresponded with or had any awareness about who Galbadon was.

Given all of the above --- it strains credulity to the MAX to pretend that Harry's story has ANY credible components.

5.  NORMALLY -- when there is NO verifiable factual evidence in existence AND (more importantly) nobody can even suggest some realistic avenues for research -- that settles whatever matter is under scrutiny.

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Ernie Lazar

[Michael Clark]

6 minutes ago, Ernie Lazar said:

 

4.  EDWIN WALKER:  

4..3  Lastly; it should be explicitly recognized that we do not even have confirming factual evidence that Walker knew Harry Dean existed.  There is nothing in Walker's personal papers.  There is also nothing about any JBS plot to murder JFK.  

 

Ernie, Thanks for keeping on top of all of this. I have been following this with interest.

I am sure that you are aware tha Paul has claimed that he has gone through a large portion of General Walkers papers. I believe he has also claimed that his access was exclusive, and that much of it remains to be sorted-through.

Can you say anything about the collection of papers to which Paul refers? Does he know things that researchers do not know?

Thanks in advance,

Cheers,

Michael

[Steve Thomas]

6 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

I'm probably wrong on this, but wasn't that trailer destined for Florida?  Or am I thinking of a different one?

--  Tommy

Thomas,

 

From: G. Robert Blakey and Richard Billings. The Plot to Kill the President (1981) on the Spartacus web site:

http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKhallL.htm

 

 

"In September 1963 Hall and Howard drove from Los Angeles, heading for Miami with a trailer-load of arms, but they were forced to leave the trailer in Dallas for lack of a hiding place in Florida. In October Hall and Seymour, back in Dallas to retrieve the trailer, were arrested for possession of drugs; but with the help of an influential financial supporter, they were released. They took the arms back to Miami, but the mission for which they were intended, Hall told us, was aborted in late October when he, Howard, Seymour, and some Cubans were arrested by customs officials as they were driving to their embarkation point south of Miami. No charges were filed, but their arms and equipment were confiscated, so they returned to Miami, frustrated, and in early November, headed west. All three swore they were at their respective homes - Hall and Howard in California, Seymour in Arizona - on November 22, 1963."

If my memory serves me right, the "influential financial backer" was Lester Logue, another one of those pesky Army Reserve Colonels.

 

Steve Thomas