J Norwood: "Lee Harvey Oswald: The Legend and the Truth"

[Thomas Graves]

12 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

George,

Can you cite me one time in US history when an individual who is dead has been tried for murder in a court of law? Once LHO was dead why in the world would Dallas PD continue to investigate the case? The President certainly did have the authority to form a presidential commission to investigate the circumstances of the assassination. The Texas people were going to have their own commission but yielded to the WC-that was their choice as I remember although they were probably encouraged to do so.

Tracy,

Seein' as how Oswald was charged with murdering JFK, I guess you're right -- the Dallas Police Department was not obligated to continue gathering evidence against Oswald after he was killed.

Unless, of course, they or the DA suspected he might have had an accomplice or two.

--  Tommy

Edited March 31, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[W. Tracy Parnell]

1 minute ago, Thomas Graves said:

Tracy,

Seein' as how Oswald was charged with murdering JFK, I guess you're right -- the Dallas Police Department was not obligated to continue gathering evidence against Oswald after he was killed.

--  Tommy

I'm not a lawyer, but the only instance that I can think of would be in the case of a serial killer. Authorities might continue investigating in some form to help the families. But they don't put the man on trial after he's dead that I ever heard of. Too bad Lance P. isn't here right now.

[Thomas Graves]

10 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I'm not a lawyer, but the only instance that I can think of would be in the case of a serial killer. Authorities might continue investigating in some form to help the families. But they don't put the man on trial after he's dead that I ever heard of. Too bad Lance P. isn't here right now.

I'm saying maybe they should have been interested in finding out whether or not the assassination had been a collaborative effort.

[George Sawtelle]

Tracy P

Oswald was a suspect not the killer. Oswald had not been convicted of anything. 

The investigation was the task of the DPD and if a grand jury indicated that a trial was necessary it should have been convened in Texas.

[Thomas Graves]

13 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Tracy P

Oswald was a suspect not the killer. Oswald had not been convicted of anything. 

The investigation was the task of the DPD and if a grand jury indicated that a trial was necessary it should have been convened in Texas.

Dear George,

Was a grand jury convened before the Warren Commission began?

Regardless, Oswald, having been charged with the murder of JFK, was no longer a suspect, he was the defendant.

--  Tommy

Edited April 1, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[George Sawtelle]

Dearest Tommy

It´s sad that no one has ever been tried for the murder of JFK or Officer Tippit? The Warren Commission wasn´t a trial. And it really wasn´t a grand jury. As far as I know a grand jury has never been convened. I guess the closest we´ve been to a grand jury is the HSCA and the AARB. But we all know that those committees were more political theatrics than a legal proceeding. And how could anyone trust the FBI and the CIA to provide honest, real evidence when those two agencies are the ones who covered up the assassination in the first place. If anyone here believes the FBI and the CIA are to be trusted then you must have been living in fantasyland for the last 50 years.

The US government had no jurisdiction. Only the state of Texas could investigate and take their evidence to a grand jury. If the grand jury felt that no charges can be brought because of lack of evidence, then no trial until there is enough evidence. 

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

1 hour ago, George Sawtelle said:

Tracy P

Oswald was a suspect not the killer. Oswald had not been convicted of anything. 

The investigation was the task of the DPD and if a grand jury indicated that a trial was necessary it should have been convened in Texas.

George,

This is from legal zoom website:

Criminal cases are brought by the state or government and, as such, present a different and more clear-cut resolution [than civil cases]. In criminal cases, if the person charged with the crime dies, there is no defendant to prosecute and any charges pending against him will be automatically dismissed.

Sorry George, you can't put a dead person on trial. If LHO had lived, he would have indeed been tried in Texas.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

20 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

The US government had no jurisdiction.

The US government did not put him on trial-the WC was NOT a trial, it was a fact finding Presidential commission that had very right to do what they did. You may disagree with their findings and that is fine. You can say it was a de facto trial and that is fine. But LHO was dead and could not be tried by anyone and was not tried.

[Michael Clark]

They knew that Lee didn't do it. They had, and still have, an obligation to investigate, gather facts, and prosecute perps.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Michael Clark

[W. Tracy Parnell]

4 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

They knew that Lee didn't do it. They had an obligation to investigate, gather facts, and persecute perps.

I think you and George are missing the point. he is saying they should have tried Oswald even though he was dead and I am saying that is not possible. This has nothing to do with your opinion of the WC and their findings. Suppose for the sake of argument that they had found evidence that someone other than LHO did it. They still could not have "prosecuted" those individuals. They would have referred evidence to the Justice Department or whoever had jurisdiction because they themselves were not a judicial body but simply a fact finding commission.

[Michael Clark]

6 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I think you and George are missing the point. he is saying they should have tried Oswald even though he was dead and I am saying that is not possible. This has nothing to do with your opinion of the WC and their findings. Suppose for the sake of argument that they had found evidence that someone other than LHO did it. They still could not have "prosecuted" those individuals. They would have referred evidence to the Justice Department or whoever had jurisdiction because they themselves were not a judicial body but simply a fact finding commission.

I may be missing the point of the thread as well as this tangent, it is true. I agree that The WC had no jurisdiction. I was referring to the DPD. I wonder if the US DOJ had jurisdiction given certain facts, such as mob involvement in the form of Jack Ruby?

I don't mean to derail the thread. I just chimed in based on recent posts.

Cheers,

Michael

Edited April 1, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, George Sawtelle said:

Dearest Tommy

It´s sad that no one has ever been tried for the murder of JFK or Officer Tippit? The Warren Commission wasn´t a trial. And it really wasn´t a grand jury. As far as I know a grand jury has never been convened. I guess the closest we´ve been to a grand jury is the HSCA and the AARB. But we all know that those committees were more political theatrics than a legal proceeding. And how could anyone trust the FBI and the CIA to provide honest, real evidence when those two agencies are the ones who covered up the assassination in the first place. If anyone here believes the FBI and the CIA are to be trusted then you must have been living in fantasyland for the last 50 years.

The US government had no jurisdiction. Only the state of Texas could investigate and take their evidence to a grand jury. If the grand jury felt that no charges can be brought because of lack of evidence, then no trial until there is enough evidence. 

 

Sweet George,

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't disagree with you.

I was just pointing out the legalistic reality of the situation.  Once Oswald was charged with murdering JFK, he became what is known as a "Defendant." From about 15 minutes after the assassination until Jack Ruby snuffed him out on 11.24.63, the DPD collected evidence to be used in the suspect's, and then defendant Oswald's, upcoming case, but then he up and died, and, unfortunately, at that point the DPD was no longer required to collect said evidence, some of which might even have been used, through the "discovery" process, to help defend Oswald!  When Oswald was shot by Ruby, he was neither a suspect nor a "perp,"  He was a DEFENDANT.

Love and kisses,

--  Tommy

Edited April 1, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[James DiEugenio]

4 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

BTW, I checked this and they do not confirm Kudlaty's story, they simply think LHO went to Stripling.

Tracy, I don't know what kind of tricks you are trying to play, but like with DiMaio and with your Church Committee Report mislabeled as an HSCA report, it won't fly.

The WCR says that Oswald attended Beauregard JHS.  (See pages 679-80)  There is no mention of Stripling in either annex where LHO's biography is discussed.  Anyone can check that and correct me if I am wrong.

Therefore, if someone named LHO actually did go to Stripling, then that would be the reason for the FBI to go there.   I mean, Tracy, the story was the number one story in America at the time and would stay there for months, right? The FBI took over the inquiry within 24 hours.  Can you name any other investigations the FBI had that were bigger at the time?  Where the eyes of the entire world were watching?  Which the FBI issued literally thousand of reports on?

Is that really difficult for you to understand?  Or is it the McAdams Syndrome kicking in?  

If LHO was the accused assassin, as he was, then the Bureau would immediately begin an immense investigation into his life, which they did.  You are aware of that correct?  Where do you think the WC got all that info on him?  You think David Belin was out pounding the pavement in NYC, New Orleans, Fort Worth etc? I can assure you he was not. Eighty per cent of the WC reports came from Hoover.  That is right in the WR intro. 

Now there are four family statements that LHO attended Stripling in Fort Worth, 3 by Robert and one by Marguerite.  In fact if you go to Volume 1 of the WC, p 299, you will see one of them for yourself. Now, the FBI did end up with the Beauregard school records, as they should have.  But yet, for some inexplicable reason they ended up at Monnig JHS in Fort Worth also.  The principal, attested to that, a guy named Mr. Bostick.

The next day, the FBI went to Stripling.  And that is why they called the then principal Mr. Lucas and then he called Kudlaty to inform him of their intent to go to the school and search the records.  When the FBI secures records in a criminal case, that is not a confiscation.  Especially when your boss, Lucas, approves it and tells you to open the doors for them.

Now, in addition to those witnesses, John also adduced Galindo, the principal at the time of his inquiry who told him that it was common knowledge that LHO had been there, and John tracked down a teacher, Mr. Summers who recalled him.  There were also three students John tracked down who recalled him at Stripling: Francetta Schubert, Doug Gann and Roy Parkin.  Now unless all of these people are lying, or unless John created them out of whole cloth, then someone named LHO or similar to that name was at Stripling.  Hoover and/or Tolson  knew about this within 24 hours of Kennedy's death.   That is what those agents were there for.  In a case of this magnitude, they don't act simply on their own.

Or do I have to explain that one also?

 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[George Sawtelle]

Thomas G

Happy to know you don´t disagree with me. Now if only you could coax Tracy to do the same I would be happier.

 

[Thomas Graves]

4 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Thomas G

Happy to know you don´t disagree with me. Now if only you could coax Tracy to do the same I would be happier.

 

Dear George,

Tracy is a so-called LNer, whereas I'm a CTer.  The only thing we have in common is that we both think the theory involving a long-term doppelganger project popularly called called Harvey and Lee is ridiculous.

--  Tommy