Photographic identification of Stella Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons.

[Ray Mitcham]

They are the photos posted above by Robin.

[Thomas Graves]

4 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

They are the photos posted above by Robin.

Ray,

Do you mean these 'uns?

 

--  Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

Dear Ray, 

If so, you do realize don't you that the top photo (Z-frame, actually) was taken just before the assassination while (from left to right) Jacob, Holt, and Simmons were standing on the Elm Street sidewalk, whereas the bottom photo (frame from a short Darnell clip, actually) was taken after the assassination while (from left to right) Jacob, Holt, and Simmons were walking back up said sidewalk, towards their workplace and "sanctuary," the TSBD?

--  Tommy

Edited April 15, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Michael Walton]

Tom - PS  Why do you have to keep butting in on threads you "aren't interested in"?  Do you crave attention or something?  Go rain on your own parade, not mine.

Oh, OK I see the point of the thread now.  The timing. My only question is if the baldish guy up on the steps is Lovelady with those two women coming up the steps, one seems to have the other by the arm, and if the cop is just now on his way as he gets closer to the entrance, then I don't think those two guys walking down on the Annex are Lovelady and Frazier.  So therefore, I don't think that the running woman - whoever she is - is talking to Lovelady. Sorry but I can't find that GIF showing this so I'm going by memory.

One thing too is Truly's statement says he was all jacked up and "this way sir" in his testimony like he was shedding a tear and ready to tear the assassin's head apart.  But in that clip he sure doesn't look jacked up. Again, I think this goes back to these people's memory of what happened. No one expected this to happen so it wasn't like they were standing around with a notebook ready to record their every step and movement. But I do think they elaborated on their story for the simple fact that LHO had to be seen somewhere near the way to the 6th floor. As he himself said he was "out front with Shelley," and like everything else he said that weekend ("they arrested me because I lived in Russia...I'm a patsy") he certainly didn't come across as the deranged Commie killer they made him out to be after he was dead.

I never said I wasn't interested in this thread.  I'm very interested in PM. Bart has done a lot of good work and I think the only way we'll ever really know is if that TV station releases the raw footage to be analyzed. I find it very interesting that if there's nothing to see in it, they'd release it.  But they won't which raises if not a red flag, at least a pink one.

[Ray Mitcham]

2 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Ray, 

If so, you do realize don't you that the top photo (Z-frame, actually) was taken just before the assassination while (from left to right) Jacob, Holt, and Simmons were standing on the Elm Street sidewalk, whereas the bottom photo (frame from a short Darnell clip, actually) was taken after the assassination while (from left to right) Jacob, Holt, and Simmons were walking back up said sidewalk, towards their workplace and "sanctuary," the TSBD?

--  Tommy

Yes, I do, Tommy. Just that I wondered when and why they changed positions. 

[Thomas Graves]

8 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Yes, I do, Tommy. Just that I wondered when and why they changed positions. 

Dear Ray,

Well, do you understand now?

If so, then you're very welcome indeed.

If not, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

Cheers,

--  Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

On 4/15/2017 at 3:54 AM, Michael Walton said:

Tom - PS  Why do you have to keep butting in on threads you "aren't interested in"?  Do you crave attention or something?  Go rain on your own parade, not mine.

Oh, OK I see the point of the thread now.  The timing. My only question is if the baldish guy up on the steps is Lovelady with those two women coming up the steps, one seems to have the other by the arm, and if the cop is just now on his way as he gets closer to the entrance, then I don't think those two guys walking down on the Annex are Lovelady and Frazier Shelley.  So therefore, I don't think that the running woman - whoever she is - is talking to Lovelady. Sorry but I can't find that GIF showing this so I'm going by memory.

One thing too is Truly's statement says he was all jacked up and "this way sir" in his testimony like he was shedding a tear and ready to tear the assassin's head apart.  But in that clip he sure doesn't look jacked up. Again, I think this goes back to these people's memory of what happened. No one expected this to happen so it wasn't like they were standing around with a notebook ready to record their every step and movement. But I do think they elaborated on their story for the simple fact that LHO had to be seen somewhere near the way to the 6th floor. As he himself said he was "out front with Shelley," and like everything else he said that weekend ("they arrested me because I lived in Russia...I'm a patsy") he certainly didn't come across as the deranged Commie killer they made him out to be after he was dead.

I never said I wasn't interested in this thread.  I'm very interested in PM. Bart has done a lot of good work and I think the only way we'll ever really know is if that TV station releases the raw footage to be analyzed. I find it very interesting that if there's nothing to see in it, they'd release it.  But they won't which raises if not a red flag, at least a pink one.

Mike,

Lithe and athletic "Running Woman On Elm Street Extension," whoever she was, could have been yelling out, "See you at 5 o'clock, Lover Boy!" to those two used car salesmen, for all I know.

Regardless, it has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that Sandy Larsen's (and my) Real-Deal Lovelady is talking with Real-Deal Gloria "Big-Girl-Dressed-In-Black" Calvery on the steps in James Darnell's clip.

Seein' as how I haven't even read your second paragraph yet, there are probably more of my comments to come on your post. Just thought I'd warn you.

--  Tommy

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

Additional corroboration for the Gloria Holt identification can be found in the first post of the following thread:

 

 

[John Butler]

I rarely get to agree with Robin Unger.  But, when you are right you are right.

Robin Unger   

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Posted April 14, 2017

Thomas

you have a bad habit of bumping threads to resurrect them from the dead.

threads drop of the board due to lack of interest, you should let sleeping dogs lie.

Let sleeping dogs lie.  Great comment.  Trying to identify the people in the Zapruder film standing on Elm Street between the lamppost / R L Thornton sign and the Stemmons sign is a useless endeavor.  There is visual proof that this group does not exist as shown in the Zapruder film.  The Betzner photo shows the faces of some of the alleged people standing there.  And, this apparently confirms that the people shown in Zapruder are actually there.  It is the only evidence that shows the faces of the people allegedly there that I know of available. However, there is Bronson, Moorman, Couch, Bothun, and Nix that offer different views indicating this group of people are a product of the imagination of the photo editors in the Zapruder film.  Obviously, they obtained this visual material from somewhere.  The other films and photos do not show this group standing there.

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by John Butler