John Simkin Posted December 2, 2004 Author Share Posted December 2, 2004 Hi John:There is none, and has not been any photo of Gibson posted at the J.F.K Research Forum... I was there earlier yesterday and read that post, no photo, late last evening, I checked it, no photo, and just now, no photo... and Rich has stated there has never been a photo of Gibson posted on the Forum, and he reads each and every post... There never was one. Perhaps you should check your source. Hope this clears up this matter. I can assure you there was a photograph yesterday morning. It showed a man of about 19 with an older man. Vernon claimed that the photograph was taken in some music session. He had got it from some website about a music tour of Australia that had been organized by a man called Ryan. The adding of the photograph might well have caused Vernon problems. Especially from Gibson's parents who Vernon was threatening him with legal action. As you know, it is very easy to remove a photograph after it has been posted. This is what Vernon has done. No big deal. I am just surprised that you are so easily fooled. Maybe you are one of those who still believe what Vernon tells you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted December 2, 2004 Author Share Posted December 2, 2004 Before my account is closed I will say that I'm not grown up enough to make my wife feel secure when she is required to be involved to get the harassment at home to stop. If the one who came into the COPA seminar in Dallas on 11/19 to take me out of the room to be given a "message" has a view to share, she is invited to do so, and explain the content of that message (or any of the gentlemen present where I was taken). Any person present at that conference that Friday night probably witnessed the intervention to which I refer. Mine is not a "free country." That's why my participation had so much meaning to me, and my association, give-and-take, and general fellowship with those who care held such meaning for me. I'm ashamed for my country that it needs John Simkin and Wim Dankbaar to pursue its history. Tim, I urge you not to leave the forum. You are one of our most valued members and have been very important in turning it into a more academic forum. The only person to be happy about your decision is Bob Vernon. As a member he has created havoc at JFK Lancer and JFK Research. Although not a member, he has been able to create problems for this forum. How he must be laughing as he reads this. Ever since JFK was assassinated researchers have been intimidated into silence. You are one of many who have suffered from this pressure. We do not have enough good researchers to allow you to leave the fight. It is true that you do not live in a democracy. Nor do I. That is why we have to continue to fight for what we believe in. The Bob Vernon’s of this world must not be allowed to win. To quote Edward Kennedy at Robert Kennedy’s funeral: As he said many times, in many parts of this nation, to those he touched and who sought to touch him: "Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Hi Denis: Fellow Canuck.... There is a proper way and this has been done... It is the copying of full posts, without permission of the poster to another Forum that is against the rules ,without permission.... John has already posted in his first post information taken from the Forum. But it was correct.... His information about the photo was not ,so there is no problem with trying to clarify information that is incorrect, and in this thread.... Thanks.....for your interest.....B QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Dec 2 2004, 12:14 AM)Hi John: There is none, and has not been any photo of Gibson posted at the J.F.K Research Forum... I was there earlier yesterday and read that post, no photo, late last evening, I checked it ,no photo, and just now, no photo... and Rich has stated there has never been a photo of Gibson posted on the Forum, and he reads each and every post... There never was one. Perhaps you should check your source. Hope this clears up this matter. B Bernice, did you know that Rich may kick you out of his forum for reporting what is posted, or not posted on his forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Carrier Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 A new e-mail has arrived from Bob Vernon which I see was forwarded to some of my compatriots in the research community as a result of my own error in forwarding what seemed to my wife, at least, to be threatening behavior. My desire was to have witnesses to what I was being subjected to. I respect John Simkin's efforts very much, as I understand this to be a history forum, with concern for the legacy we leave to our children's children. I'd hoped to be able to contribute to this. I'm very sorry that this has impacted some of those I respect most. I hereby withdraw from the forum and request that my membership be terminated. Respectfully, Tim Carroll <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry to hear you are leaving the Forum. But, I for one do understand. I want to thank you for what all you have contributed and the support you have given me and my story. I thank You. You are a good historian, something to be proud of. However, another matter has came to my attention which proves there are really sick people out there. And they, for whatever reasons, think they should intimidate and rule what others think and say. History has had them and their back again, on this forum trying to burn our books. The world is full of these idiots and zealots. If they can not get you to see things the way they want them seen or said, then they try to enact Fear and threats, talk loud, and use foul language and tell lies to boost their on self worth as seen by themselves. I was not going to post the following. I was just going to ignore it and pass it of as another nut case. But in view of the attacks on this forum and attacks on others in reference to their OWN research and to some parts my personal story, I now think I should send a signal to whomever: The following Email has been turned over to law enforcement. I have been told, this email was sent from a library on the west coast yesterday. I do not know if it has been posted on the internet. COPY (the original with all the tracing numbers is with Law enforcement. "...... Dear Mr. Plumbee, Novmber 30 2004 If you continue to post the things yo post after you have been warned then there is no hope for yhe safey of you are yours. We have tried to be your friend but you make it inpossible. Just because you have done the things you have done for the CIA does not give you the right to expose them to the world. You had a real problem years ago in Colorado, but if you keep on in the direction youare going then I can no longer be responsible for those who are the gatekeepers as you call them. You Texas friends can not help you now. your in our sandbox and you xxxx ass belongs to us now because you continue to spread your lies about me and others this goes for all your friends to. we no where they are and how to get next to them without them knowing about it. Singed YOU KNOW Now my reply to this ASXXOLE if he reads this forum. Kiss my Asx... take you best shot you coward. I have dealt with your kind for a damn long time. You have now cross the line with me. I too, know how to play these crazy games. I would be damn careful for now on if I were you. Keep reading my post you coward. You might learn something about freedom and democracy.., you puke. And the name is spelled PLUMLEE, TOSH. Lets get it on you coward. MY REPLY TO YOUR SURRENDER THREATS? NUTS <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim, Even though we got off to a shaky start on Lancer, I feel we have developed a mutual respect. I for one, have a great deal of respect for your work and opinions on this issue and strongly believe you are one of those who can make a difference here. I respect and understand your decision to leave, but regret that you are going. Tosh, Never received such a threat as you just did, but like I've said before, I have an insurance policy tucked away in the form of docs that they would prefer stays tucked away. I have had my computer invaded and an identity theft issue resulted in that on forums, but with the help of technology and an excellent computer tech, have a decent firewall where I am somewhat protected and can trace hits on my system. Love the reply from McAuliffe. It is fitting. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 (edited) Hi John: You were adding your posts as I was making out mine....as I stated when I went, there was none, and there is none now.....Rich has stated that there was none when he read the posts...I believe him. If something was posted earlier than he checked in and much earlier than I,and then deleted, as happens on here also, then of course no administrator can control such as,to what he has not seen...the same on this Forum if deletions are made when you are asleep in the middle of the night such as the thread the other evening, you did not have a chance to see such until you were awake, if deletions had been made or changes then of course you would never know, just common sense......... Of course no administrator has control at such times....nor members what they see or do not see..and even members that fool the adm. with their information, pertaining to their membership.... as has happened here.... it happens......and no fooling about that.....seeing that there are hours in time difference between countries....so as does happen on here, things can change without being seen, by those in control. I wish you had thought to have gotten the photo...for all....along with the information, that would have clarified the problem....but then perhaps you would not have wanted to post such.....but as you say it is from the link, then perhaps it is still available.. Thanks for your information.........B P.S...I don't believe anything anyone tells me, until I see the proof for myself, and or documentation...and that is what I am after ....was there or was there not a photo....As far as Rich not seeing it, yes I believe him....I did not either.. Edited December 2, 2004 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Tim, I would urge you to reconsider your decision. You have been an extremely valuable asset to this forum, your leaving would be a great loss to us all. I would like to better understand why you have made such a decision. Can you clarify what problems you have encountered, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Carrier Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Tim,I would urge you to reconsider your decision. You have been an extremely valuable asset to this forum, your leaving would be a great loss to us all. I would like to better understand why you have made such a decision. Can you clarify what problems you have encountered, please? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have been a serious researcher in the JFK Assassination for almost fifteen years now. I was an interested party some seven years prior to that. I chose to remain outside the research community until 2000. In all the forums and discussion groups that I have seen on this topic, I will stick my neck out and say that Mr. Simkins forum is the most well versed and monitored of all. He has successfully achieved (IMO) the best balance of open discussion and proper monitoring and policing of any forum that is out there. Tim, IMO, it doesn't get any better than this and you are a major part of what is presented here. I really do wish you would stay on. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carroll Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Tim,I would urge you to reconsider your decision. You have been an extremely valuable asset to this forum, your leaving would be a great loss to us all. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IMO, it doesn't get any better than this and you are a major part of what is presented here. I really do wish you would stay on. Al <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To quote Edward Kennedy at Robert Kennedy’s funeral: As he said many times, in many parts of this nation, to those he touched and who sought to touch him: "Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not." Ouch! Please don't cancel my membership. I've always considered myself a worldly person, but I could have never dreamed what I have been put through. I will try to be careful and thoughtful. I'm grateful for the fellowship of this forum. The way that Al and I worked our way to a mutual respect represents a model for my dream for the world. His encouragement moves me very much. Through tears, and with affection, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted December 2, 2004 Author Share Posted December 2, 2004 I have been a serious researcher in the JFK Assassination for almost fifteen years now. I was an interested party some seven years prior to that. I chose to remain outside the research community until 2000. In all the forums and discussion groups that I have seen on this topic, I will stick my neck out and say that Mr. Simkins forum is the most well versed and monitored of all. He has successfully achieved (IMO) the best balance of open discussion and proper monitoring and policing of any forum that is out there. Tim, IMO, it doesn't get any better than this and you are a major part of what is presented here. I really do wish you would stay on. Thank you for that. The forum is only as good as its members. Over the last few months we have managed to accumulate an excellent collection of researchers who are willing to work together in solving this case. This is something that other forums have had difficulty doing. Mainly because they have fragmented into sub-groups dedicated to one particular view of the case. Individuals within these groups then begin hammering individuals in other groups. This kind of behaviour upsets most serious researchers and they become disillusioned and leave. However good this forum is, it is a very fragile. One person can create a lot of damage. Bob Vernon and his supporters know that. For a variety of reasons they want this forum to fail. They have already had their first success, the resignation of Tim. Now they have tasted blood they will seek to get others to resign. I am already aware that some members have come under considerable pressure not to post on this forum. Denis says that “Nothing new has come up for a long time and it looks like nothing new of importance will ever come up either.” I could not disagree more. Have you been reading the online seminars? I think the problem could well be that this forum is coming up with important information on the case. This is why we have become a target. That is why we must stand together in this time of crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Tim, I am glad for the change of heart. Glad to hear this. Vernon has tried many people in the past. MacAdams Dave Perry Google and the University myself as well All with the threats of lawsuits. I still have mine from him, it didn't get very far. Just a note is all it was. Well, I just took it to my attorney and he looked it over the materals and said there was nothing that you stated that would or could be held libel for. Stating that back to Vernon it was never even started to even be dropped. Nothing ever happened. As far as I know, nothing happened in the others either. This is the ones that made the fact known, I have no idea as to how many never did make it known. Also, if Vernon is doing this. Then something he told me probably isn't going to happen either. Yes, Vernon is doing attacks. I told him I won't tell. So I will keep that. But, if it does ever happen all of us will suffer. I mean ALL. I have a feeling the FBI told Bob NO on his Monday motion to them. At least I hope they told Bob NO. They should, because it is down right crazy of what he was intending to do. Nothing can be proven by me ever telling it anyhow, especially if it never happens. Just like the rest. Mr. Simkin, I do hope you do monitor my posts. I don't have any problem with that at all. Just hope I don't send you up a wall trying to read them. So, do look in once in a while at them. Thanks. Just wonder on the thread that you deleted if you did in fact read all of it not just mine by also the others as well. If you did then you know the truth behind it all. What exactly was stated to me. I was threatened. I named it, "threaten me?" ect. So, if you read that then you know very much what went on. Yes, I was harsh. I had to be. I will be whatever it takes for me to have to be. It isn't just one side. I have been watching this for sometime now. Most of it so silently but sometimes I do say it. Also, ever hear the expression, "someone gets the name but another plays the game." Well, sometimes it looks one way but it really another way that it is being done. Vernon gets the name but someone else is playing this game. Oh, I do know where it wants to go. All I can say to it is good luck. I do think that was stated to me. Silently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted December 2, 2004 Author Share Posted December 2, 2004 Mr. Simkin, I do hope you do monitor my posts. I don't have any problem with that at all. Just hope I don't send you up a wall trying to read them. So, do look in once in a while at them. Thanks.Also, ever hear the expression, "someone gets the name but another plays the game." Well, sometimes it looks one way but it really another way that it is being done. Vernon gets the name but someone else is playing this game. Nancy, I did read this posting. I think you might well be right with your comment "someone gets the name but another plays the game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carroll Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I think you might well be right with your comment "someone gets the name but another plays the game." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I think you might well be right with your comment "someone gets the name but another plays the game." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes <{POST_SNAPBACK}> _________ I totally disagree with the post(s?) that say there is nothing new to research.....please, read the seminars. Very good news Tim, Your posts are so well written, so knowledge filled. Glad you are not deserting us, your imput is much valued. Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 (edited) Tim, "I'm ashamed for my country that it needs John Simkin and Wim Dankbaar to pursue its history." Now you proved my point that even you can make mistakes That's a great disservice to your fellow countrymen an women, including yourself. John and everyone else build there pursuit on information they have recieved from Americans, mostly concerned and/or brave Americans. Now, on another note, I have no desire to start what everybody calls a "Wim/Vernon mess" here, but although he is not a member he still manages to get his lies and threats posted here. I can ignore them or I can correct them for history and acurracy's sake. I am not sure if proving his lies in the initial message of this thread, is considered a "Wim/Vernon mess". They can be proven either by facts or with Vernon's own words, either recorded or in writing. Before I go ahead, I'd appreciate some input from fellow members and mostly John Simkin on what they prefer. ---------------------- For what it's worth, my view has not changed since I posted this on Lancer: His claim that I breached an agreement with him, a totally unsubstantiated claim that he is allowed to repeat over and over again. With the exception of Vernon and his lawyer, there is nobody that has reviewed the underlying agreements and subscribes to this claim. This includes lawyers. Tim Carroll is on vacation now, but he is one of many legal minds that could refute this claim. Few here have made comments about the fact that Vernon's attempts to discredit, are based on information that he had LONG before he sold his properties. And yet he even dares to claim these properties have "reverted back" to him. But nobody asks the question why it would still be worth anything to him, now that he has made it totally wortless from his point of view. The fact of the matter is that Vernon's sole reason for saying that Files, Tosh and others are liars now, is purely because he hates my guts and wants personal revenge. It consumes him. That is also why he goes after every witness I defend and everyone associated with me, like Judyth Baker, Tosh Plumlee, James Files, Zack Shelton, Don Ervin, Jim Marrs, Dan Marvin, Lois Gibson, etcetera. He has even tried with Chauncey Holt, but he was quickly whistled back by his lawyer, because his lawyer happens to be representing the Holt family too. The conduct described above has already alienated valuable forum members, causing some of them to leave. Judging from the comments from other members, I believe it's fair to say that hardly anyone here considers Vernon's contributions to be valuable. His conduct is also the reason why members like Tosh Plumlee refuse to deal and debate with him directly. Which by the way reflects in no way an unwillingness to answer questions, as he is doing on other forums. Wim Edited December 2, 2004 by Wim Dankbaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Martin Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I'm ashamed that the research community is repeatedly destroyed by the same people with the same ideas, and that Mr. Vernon can strike fear into people by threatening baseless lawsuits. I can't stand that the most amazing people are talking about leaving such a wonderful place, when giving in is precisely what Mr. Vernon wants you to do. I understand being a bit freaked out about this, but my elders always told me if you give in to bullies, they don't stop. If you stand up to them, they really don't have much to carry against you. The problem, of course, being that nobody's willing to stand up to Mr. Vernon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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