General Walker, Lee Harvey Oswald and Dallas Officials

[Paul Trejo]

On 5/11/2018 at 4:10 PM, Jason Ward said:

The FBI also had connected Loran Hall and Gerry Patrick Hemming to General Walker well before the assassination - see (1) below.

Can you clarify the obvious reasons you mention for those of us who are not so attuned to the obvious?

1. Loran and Hall with General Walker as known to the FBI in early 1963

2. The CIA was also aware of the Hemming - Walker friendliness

SOURCES

1 FBI, HSCA Subject File: Interpen.  NARA 124-10294-10354

2 CIA, Russ Holmes Work File, NARA 104-10435-10025

Jason,

There are many other recorded contacts between Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall and General Walker in 1963.    Here are just a few more:

A.  Gerry Patrick Hemming said on this Forum (IIRC) that he and various Interpen comrades, including Loran Hall, visited General Walker only a few days after the April 10, 1963 shooting.   They sat out on Walker's back porch at 4011 Turtle Creek Boulevard in Dallas, smoking cigarettes and drinking beer.    Hemming said that he was amazed that General Walker looked so calm, cool and collected on his back porch -- when he should have been more timid, since somebody had tried to kill him just a few days earlier on that very spot -- and no shooter had yet been arrested.

B.   In August, 1963, after Walker had won millions of dollars of judgments against the Associated Press for its articles reporting Walker's role at the Ole Miss race riots, Gerry Patrick Hemming sent General Walker a written request for money for Interpen, to continue paramilitary raids on Cuba.  That letter is in various archives.  

C.   Loran Hall told Jim Garrison that in late September 1963, Loran Hall and William Seymour were stopped for a traffic violation in Dallas while pulling a trailer of paramilitary supplies.  Then, the Dallas cops found some bennies in the glove compartment, and Loran Hall was taken to jail.  Minutes later,  Robert Morris (General Walker's lawyer) came to bail Loran Hall out of jail.  Then, Robert Morris drove to General Walker's house, and Loran Hall and William Seymour followed in their car and trailer.   They visited with General Walker for a while.   Loran Hall told Jim Garrison that Warren Reynolds was also at General Walker's house at the time, and in his opinion, Reynolds and Walker were having an affair.

OK, so when I said that "Loran Hall was not subpoenaed by the WC (for obvious reasons) but he was subpoenaed by Jim Garrison for the same reasons," what I meant by "obvious reasons," was that Loran Hall was plausibly linked to Lee Harvey Oswald as a possible accomplice in the JFK Assassination -- in multiple ways.

One way was in the Silvia Odio story.    Although Silvia Odio refused to identify Loran Hall to the FBI (because, IMHO, Loran Hall terrified Silvia, and Silvia did not trust the FBI to protect her), the record is clear that the FBI quickly nailed Loran Hall for the Silvia Odio visit, and Loran Hall initially confessed that he had indeed visited Silvia Odio's apartment with Larry Howard and an LHO look-alike. 

A few days later, Loran Hall retracted his confession.   (Still the WC reported Hall's confession as a historical fact.)

Another way was with a direct connection between Loran Hall and Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans through Guy Banister, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Interpen and the paramilitary camp at Lake Pontchartrain managed by David Ferrie.    The Warren Commission did not want to go there.   Jim Garrison wanted to go there.   (So did Jeff Caufield.)

All best,
--Paul

Edited May 14, 2018 by Paul Trejo
Typos

[Michael Clark]

On 3/16/2018 at 1:51 PM, Lawrence Schnapf said:

Paul- you have it backwards in many ways

Physically seizing the POTUS body is one thing. Changing the laws of the state of Texas would have been quite another feat. Even if a trial judge allowed inadmissible evidence and instructed the jury that it could consider that evidence, there would have been multiple appeals. very different process.  

Regarding Marina,  she told the government what it wanted her to say to AVOID being deported. Since she gave sworn testimony, she could be subject to perjury which is probably why she has been very careful since then in what she says. he was interrogated  46  without benefit of counsel before her first appearance before the WC. Indeed. Rankin stated this on the record in her first testimony on 2/3/64. she made it clear in this session that she was "cooperating".  

Marina is the only person who could tie LHO to possessing the rifle, to the note that was allegedly written before the Walker shooting, to what he told her when he came back, to the presence of the rifle in the blanket. How do you know she was not lying about these facts?

The WC called her four times because of its frustration with her evolving testimony. this is documented in Shennon's book and staff memos of Willens. As Casey Stengel used to say "You can look it up"    

I have to agree with Lawrence here.

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Michael Clark

[Mervyn Hagger]

10 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

This an excellent explanation for Oswald's trip to the USSR.

It may be an excellent explanation. In the course of my investigations I have also interviewed (by phone) Victor Marchetti after his heavily redacted (more like blanked-out!) book was published. But one thing Marchetti had no direct knowledge of was CIA activity in the UK, which means that he had no knowledge about what happened to LHO in England (if LHO was being "influenced" by CIA.) That is the starting point. It is LHO's 'Road to Damascus' "vision" (or gun in the back, or other form of coercive threat to "do as you are told and no one will get hurt"...) Of course that "gun" could have been in the hands of someone representing a faction within MI6 (British Crown).

Mervyn

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger

[Michael Clark]

4 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

It may be an excellent explanation. In the course of my investigations I have also interviewed (by phone) Victor Marchetti after his heavily redacted (more like blanked-out!) book was published. But one thing Marchetti had no direct knowledge of was CIA activity in the UK, which means that he had no knowledge about what happened to LHO in England (if LHO was being "influenced" by CIA.) That is the starting point. It is LHO's 'Road to Damascus' "vision" (or gun in the back, or other form of coercive threat to "do as you are told and no one will get hurt"...) Of course that "gun" could have been in the hands of someone representing a faction within MI6 (British Crown).

Mervyn

 

Hi Mervyn,

I haven't given it a lot of thought or study, but at first consideration I don't see how coercion could get a young man to head home from the  marines, pack-up and head to Russia, playing the part of a defector on dee threat of death. It seems like the kind of job that has to be done right, with skill and with some personal and ideological  mind set. Being a spy and, more dangerous yet, a counter intelligence operator In Russia would be dangerous work, and it would also dangerous for the CIA or whatever agency sent him there. Being under threat of death would, I would think, lead such an actor to seek safety in the hands of the enemy.

So I have to look into it , but, in the meantime, I have to question whether the CIA really works that way, in a strategic manner. I can understand Central Intelligence, or military intelligence doing such a thing in a more tactical manner.

 

[Mervyn Hagger]

30 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Hi Mervyn,

I haven't given it a lot of thought or study, but at first consideration I don't see how coercion could get a young man to head home from the  marines, pack-up and head to Russia, playing the part of a defector on dee threat of death. It seems like the kind of job that has to be done right, with skill and with some personal and ideological  mind set. Being a spy and, more dangerous yet, a counter intelligence operator In Russia would be dangerous work, and it would also dangerous for the CIA or whatever agency sent him there. Being under threat of death would, I would think, lead such an actor to seek safety in the hands of the enemy.

So I have to look into it , but, in the meantime, I have to question whether the CIA really works that way, in a strategic manner. I can understand Central Intelligence, or military intelligence doing such a thing in a more tactical manner.

 

Hi Michael. What I am saying, in agreement with Jason (who states that it is a possible explanation), is that until the moment LHO stepped out of UK Immigration at Southampton, England, he thought he would be in the UK for a week, and then he would go to school in Switzerland.

I have a friend who worked for Marconi and he was joined in a pub by someone who sat down next to him and in the course of conversation offered him a job on a ship. It was obvious that the person who sat down next to him knew exactly who he was before he began the conversation. Later, this same friend was tapped with two others, one a senior retired BBC engineering man and the other another Marconi employee, and they were asked to go and set up the British propaganda radio station aimed at Ian Smith's self-proclaimed Rhodesia. It was also clear that this UK Foreign Office / MI6 job was offered after all three had been previously vetted.

I am sure you are familiar with the expression "making an offer that you cannot refuse". The US Mafia is not alone in making such propositions, the undercover agencies of government who do not answer to the public, also make such "offers".

I have no idea how such an "offer" was made to LHO, but it does seem to suggest that it was made in England, because all of a sudden, LHO's announced plans disappeared and then, by some mysterious route after leaving Heathrow, he cropped up at an expensive hotel in Helsinki.

Mervyn

 

[Michael Clark]

5 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

Hi Michael. What I am saying, in agreement with Jason (who states that it is a possible explanation), is that until the moment LHO stepped out of UK Immigration at Southampton, England, he thought he would be in the UK for a week, and then he would go to school in Switzerland.

I have a friend who worked for Marconi and he was joined in a pub by someone who sat down next to him and in the course of conversation offered him a job on a ship. It was obvious that the person who sat down next to him knew exactly who he was before he began the conversation. Later, this same friend was tapped with two others, one a senior retired BBC engineering man and the other another Marconi employee, and they were asked to go and set up the British propaganda radio station aimed at Ian Smith's self-proclaimed Rhodesia. It was also clear that this UK Foreign Office / MI6 job was offered after all three had been previously vetted.

I am sure you are familiar with the expression "making an offer that you cannot refuse". The US Mafia is not alone in making such propositions, the undercover agencies of government who do not answer to the public, also make such "offers".

I have no idea how such an "offer" was made to LHO, but it does seem to suggest that it was made in England, because all of a sudden, LHO's announced plans disappeared and then, by some mysterious route after leaving Heathrow, he cropped up at an expensive hotel in Helsinki.

Mervyn

 

Thanks Mervyn, To be sure, I am not convinced that The CIA or ONI could or would create an effective false defector operation by compelling their agent under threat. I appreciate your position thank you for the clarification; I will keep an open mind regarding that scenario.

Yet, it should be remembered that LHO left the Marines, under a family hardship discharge, went home and almost immediately left for Europe. If he believed, prior to his discharge, that he was going to school in Switzerland, or even knew that he was going on some other operation, for which college coursework was a cover, then I believe that this whole operation started while he was in the Marines. I think that this early initiation of this operation, commencing with an early marine discharge, just does not jibe with a coerced operative.

But in the end, I am wondering what the importance of this element of the Europe trip really amounts to. Is this just an idle side conversation of is it important part of the picture you are developing.

For me it is of interest because I have my ears open for ONI involvement in the JFK assassination operation and Paul Trejo's theory, that the CIA and ONI were working LHO this early, piqued my interest.

Thanks again Mervyn

[Mervyn Hagger]

3 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Thanks Mervyn, To be sure, I am not convinced that The CIA or ONI could or would create an effective false defector operation by compelling their agent under threat. I appreciate your position thank you for the clarification; I will keep an open mind regarding that scenario.

Yet, it should be remembered that LHO left the Marines, under a family hardship discharge, went home and almost immediately left for Europe. If he believed, prior to his discharge, that he was going to school in Switzerland, or even knew that he was going on some other operation, for which college coursework was a cover, then I believe that this whole operation started while he was in the Marines. I think that this early initiation of this operation, commencing with an early marine discharge, just does not jibe with a coerced operative.

But in the end, I am wondering what the importance of this element of the Europe trip really amounts to. Is this just an idle side conversation of is it important part of the picture you are developing.

For me it is of interest because I have my ears open for ONI involvement in the JFK assassination operation and Paul Trejo's theory, that the CIA and ONI were working LHO this early, piqued my interest.

Thanks again Mervyn

Hi Michael. Actually, what I am suggesting is that LHO was going to school in Switzerland.

End of.

But LHO was a very young man, and like many young men he had vulnerabilities which the US government agencies and military would be well aware of.

So consider that LHO left New Orleans for Switzerland where he was going to college, just as he told his mother.

When his ship arrived in France he decided to cross the English Channel and spend a week in England.

At UK Immigration he told UK officials the same story - he was going to college in Switzerland, but first he was going to spend a week in England.

There is a very short period of time between leaving the Immigration building in Southampton and arriving at London's Heathrow Airport where his US Passport was given an exit stamp.

Then LHO vanished.

He next cropped up at a very expensive hotel in Helsinki, Finland.

I am asking what happened to LHO between Southampton and Heathrow?

Forget all of the speculation theories, just look at the facts.

Assume that LHO was telling the truth, and who can prove that he was not?

He had after all sent the college a deposit and told them that he was coming.

His mother thought that he was in Switzerland at college and did what most parents would do when their son failed to respond to her letters.

She started to worry and then contacted the college and US authorities.

Something very dramatic took place between Southampton and Heathrow.

What was it?

Mervyn

[Paul Brancato]

Whatever Oswald was doing, and whenever those decisions were made, one thing has proven to be undeniably true. For 4 years, beginning in October 1959 and ending October 1963, the Oswald ‘file’ at CIA was segregated , and internal routing of Oswald info did not follow normal protocol. The Russia desk, incredibly, was kept out of the loop, and a small part of Angleton’s counterintelligence wing took control. I don’t think this indicates in any way that Oswald was being groomed as an assassin, or even necessarily that he as on a CIA mission.

[Mervyn Hagger]

I guess this just adds to more speculation to the 50 years of speculation that went before. It is such a easy question that I ask: What happened to LHO after leaving UK Immigration at Southampton, England and his sudden, unexpected and contradictory departure at London's Heathrow Airport on a mystery flight? I forgot, you are ignoring me but answering me at the same time. LOL.

[Michael Clark]

5 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

I guess this just adds to more speculation to the 50 years of speculation that went before. It is such a easy question that I ask: What happened to LHO after leaving UK Immigration at Southampton, England and his sudden, unexpected and contradictory departure at London's Heathrow Airport on a mystery flight? I forgot, you are ignoring me but answering me at the same time. LOL.

Well, thanks for entertaining my question. We are kind of off topic now.

But to be sure, Mervyn, Paul is not ignoring you. Paul's style can, unfortunately, be difficult upon first introductions. It took me months to realize that he is a fair, intelligent, knowledgeable straight-shooter. He just happens to be blunt. And , Mervyn, you are fairly blunt as well. Also, keep in mind that it Is Paul Trejo who maintains a growing list of people on his ignore list, and he publicly announces each addition when he does-so. Jason does the same thing, that is how they come to have a personal discussion instead of a debate, in a debate forum. You and Paul Brancato had a misunderstanding and it is unnecessarily affecting ongoing debate between the two of you. Paul Brancato does not stick his fingers in his hears and stick out his tongue, like Jason and Trejo.

Thanks again,

 

Michael

[Mervyn Hagger]

9 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Well, thanks for entertaining my question. We are kind of off topic now.

But to be sure, Mervyn, Paul is not ignoring you. Paul's style can, unfortunately, be difficult upon first introductions. It took me months to realize that he is a fair, intelligent, knowledgeable straight-shooter. He just happens to be blunt. And , Mervyn, you are fairly blunt as well. Also, keep in mind that it Is Paul Trejo who maintains a growing list of people on his ignore list, and he publicly announces each addition when he does-so. Jason does the same thing, that is how they come to have a personal discussion instead of a debate, in a debate forum. You and Paul Brancato had a misunderstanding and it is unnecessarily affecting ongoing debate between the two of you. Paul Brancato does not stick his fingers in his hears and stick out his tongue, like Jason and Trejo.

Thanks again,

 

Michael

Yes, you are correct Michael. I guess I get them confused. Sorry Paul (again!) However, I find Jason's views to be very refreshing because he is fed up with the speculation and so am I, and not just on the subject of JFK/LHO, but on another subject that collided with this one. I appreciate Jason's candor in sticking to what is known and provable. However, what I am discovering is that the term "right-winger" is being tossed around as though it is meaningful. On a sport's pitch, it is. In politics, it is not. What is missing in this "discussion" about Walker is any sort of concept or knowledge of Pre-millennia-ism. That is the key to understanding the John Birch Society, and it is the key to understanding Edwin Walker. It is certainly the key to understanding the political climate in Dallas during 1963. Yet aside from me, who else has raised this issue? Maybe someone else has and I have not seen their comments. If they did (on another thread perhaps), I would appreciate someone pointing it out to me. Mervyn

[Michael Clark]

12 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

However, I find Jason's views to be very refreshing

I felt the same way when he first showed-up. However, his acceptance of Paul Trejo' s postings, which are diametrically opposed to his (Jason's) stated aims of embracing truth and evidence were a huge disappointment.

 

 However, what I am discovering is that the term "right-winger" is being tossed around as though it is meaningful.

Firmly agreed. Further, even commonly accepted understandings of a "right-wing" are dinifinitevely truncated, in Jason and Trejo' dialogue, to precisely what they want it to mean. They don't see a right wing beyond Dallas, Birchers and the like. They don't see a "Radical Right" that can be traced up through the upper eschlons of the American power structure.

 

What is missing in this "discussion" about Walker is any sort of concept or knowledge of Pre-millennia-ism.

This is new to me. I am listening. I would like to see a dedicated thread on this.

 

 Mervyn

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Michael Clark

[Mervyn Hagger]

8 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

What is missing in this "discussion" about Walker is any sort of concept or knowledge of Pre-millennia-ism.

This is new to me. I am listening. I would like to see a dedicated thread on this.

Have a listen to this version of Pre-Millennial-ism as applied to the politics of 1966, it was heard daily in Dallas on KRLD-AM and daily throughout the UK on all of the major offshore commercial radio stations:

https://soundcloud.com/garner-ted-armstrong-ea/1966_twt-from-west

[Michael Clark]

9 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

Have a listen to this version of Pre-Millennial-ism as applied to the politics of 1966, it was heard daily in Dallas on KRLD-AM and daily throughout the UK on all of the major offshore commercial radio stations:

https://soundcloud.com/garner-ted-armstrong-ea/1966_twt-from-west

That link did not work for me. I found this...

 

[Paul Brancato]

Mervyn and anyone else reading - I don’t have blinders on, not one whit, when it comes to 1963 politics, in Dallas and in the South generally. It’s not news to me, and I doubt it’s news to many readers. And believe or not, I appreciate what Jason brings here, though both he and Trejo unfortunately dismiss those of us who see the possibility that Dallas 1963 is not the whole story. One thing that Jason does which I don’t appreciate is dismiss authors who have done due diligence, and current researchers like John Newman for instance, who are deep in the weeds trying to figure out the chain of command and the routing of documents within the CIA/US Military structures. That’s not a worn out story but an ever evolving one. 

Mervyn - You can download on Smashwords for $2.99 the book Brandy - Portrait of an Intelligence Officer. It is worth the read, especially in regards to McLendon’s life long friendships with Colonel Brandstetter and also with David Atlee Phillips. And if you are interested in Oswald, try reading John Newman’s Oswald and the CIA, and also Bill Simpich’s work which Trejo often refers to. There is a world of real research out there by talented and deeply caring thinkers who would never refer to themselves as CIA-did-it conspiracy theorists.