If Oswald Was "Prayer Man" ...

[Thomas Graves]

3 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

Once again you are ASSUMING facts not in evidence. You are constantly begging for speculation on this thread. How about sticking to the FACTS and leaving the speculation-is-now-accepted-as-fact posts to Mr Trejo.

Or how about refraining from asking for speculation from other members, simply because you believe you can out-speculate everyone else? 

I'm through responding to the inane line of questioning you continue to put forth in this post. If you seek facts, ask for facts. If you want clairvoyance, I suggest you contact a medium and see what his/her crystal ball reveals.

I don't know a polite way to tell you that if you have nothing to add, it would behoove you to stop adding that nothing on top of your existing level of nothing.

 

Mark,

 

What in the world do you mean above by "facts not in evidence"?

 

Do you consider Thierry Speth's, Don Roberdeau's, and Robin Unger's mislabeling of Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Jeanne Holt, and Sharon Simmons as "Gloria Calvery, Karan Hicks, and Carol Reed" for so many years to have been "facts in evidence" for all those years?

 

(Laughing Out Loud)

 

(Don't even get me started on Karen Westbrook's recent mislabeling of the aforementioned Jacob, Holt, and Simmons as "Maybe Carol Reed, definitely Gloria Calvery, and definitely me, Karen Westbrook".)

 

Do you not believe that Sandy and I correctly identified Gloria Calvery in the Z-Film and in Couch-Darnell?

 

Do you not believe that "Prayer Woman" pivoted in the direction of Buell Wesley Frazier at some point during the 30-second unfilmed interval between the end of Weigman and the beginning of Couch-Darnell? 

 

Do you not believe Chris Davidson's estimate that the Couch-Darnell clip started around 25 seconds after the assassination, and that, fwiw, Marrion Baker reached the curb in front of the TSBD about 29 seconds after the assassination?

 

Corollary Question:  Do you not realize that Gloria Calvery and her colleague-in-white had plenty of time to walk from the two lower yellow spots in this graphic by Michael Walton to get to the steps before Couch and Darnell started filming the front of the TSBD?

 

Have you compared "Prayer Man's" orientation in Weigman with "Prayer Man's" orientation in Couch-Darnell, Mark?

 

Can you see where Sandy and I have spotted Calvery and her colleague-in-white on the steps in Couch-Darnell, and can you see that Calvery is talking with the person in front of her on the steps?  Can you see that "Prayer Man" and Frazier are turned in each other's direction in Couch-Darnell?

 

Do you not believe your ears when Frazier says in his 2013 Sixth Floor Museum interview that (paraphrased) "a crying girl came by the steps, before Shelley and Lovelady left to go down towards the Triple Underpass, and this crying girl said that JFK had been shot, and when Sarah and I heard that, we turned towards each other to ask each other if we'd heard correctly what the girl had said"? 

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

Damn, Mr. Graves.

Did you not read the part I quoted?

"Facts not in evidence" refers to your ASSUMPTION that Frazier and Prayer person turned and faced one another to speak to each other. 

You know...THE PART OF YOUR PREVIOUS POST I QUOTED. The part RELEVANT to my comments that followed. 

The part NOT SHOWN IN ANY FILM AVAILABLE TO DATE.

THOSE "facts not in evidence."

Cheez... just when I thought you couldn't get any more obtuse. 

This ain't rocket surgery. There's no need to go all "prehistoric" on me, when I quoted your comment to highlight SPECIFICALLY what my comments were referencing.

It shouldn't be THAT difficult to understand. Unless you CHOOSE to make it difficult to understand.

[Thomas Graves]

2 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

  .....

 

Mark,

I'm obtuse, huh?  Is that a synonym for stupid?  Are you a moderator?  Is that permitted?  Shouldn't you have called me "a barnacle," instead, like the oh-so-intellectual Robert Charles-Whatshisname did on my Mitrokhin thread?

 

Regardless,  why else would "Prayer Man" and Frazier have turned in each other's direction in that situation, Mark, if not to say something to each other?

Especially since Frazier said in his 2013 interview that he turned to a "Sarah" when he heard a crying girl (who had "come by" the steps) tell someone else that JFK had been shot.  Do you really think Frazier did a 180 to ask Andrej's tiny "Sarah 'Blob' Stanton" behind him what she had heard?

 

The Situation:  A crying girl has come up to the steps and is telling the people there in a loud voice that she's just seen JFK's head get blown off.

(Warning: There's a bit of sarcasm coming up.)

 

So that "Prayer Man" could check out what the other people on the steps were wearing, and so that Frazier could stare off into space and wonder if his battery is okay?

 

What kind of evidence would it take to convince you that "Prayer Man" talking (or had just finished talking), Mark?

 

A witness?

 

A tape recording?

 

--  TG

 

PS  You don't dispute the other "obtuse" points I made in my earlier post, Mark?

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

A witness.

A tape recording.

Any sort of PROOF above mere speculation. 

Speculation is NOT PROOF.

Again, anyone with access to a dictionary can discover that "speculation" is not the same as "proof."

It's really not a leap of faith. If you don't understand the difference, you can use the dictionary to discover the difference. If you DO understand the difference, but refuse to accept it as such...

...that's on you.

And I called the use of that type of questions as evidence of being obtuse. Perhaps I should have said that I recognize you to be much more intelligent than to continue the line of questioning you have pursued, which makes me believe your questions are simply for the purpose of lengthening this thread, and that increasing the level of knowledge about the JFK assassination is the  furthest thing from the true point of this thread.

[Thomas Graves]

8 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

A witness.

A tape recording.

Any sort of PROOF above mere speculation. 

Speculation is NOT PROOF.

Again, anyone with access to a dictionary can discover that "speculation" is not the same as "proof."

It's really not a leap of faith. If you don't understand the difference, you can use the dictionary to discover the difference. If you DO understand the difference, but refuse to accept it as such...

...that's on you.

 

Mark,

 

Would a reasonable person expect there to BE an eavesdropping witness to "Prayer Man's" and Frazier's short conversation?

A tape recording?

Really?

 

I take it that you prefer to believe that "Prayer Man" was Oswald?

What "facts in evidence" do you have for believing that, Mark?

"Because Oswald was innocent, damn it, and this proves it!" ?

"Because 'Prayer Man' kinda looks like Oswald (except for the buttons and the girth)"?

"Andrej's graphics, Tommy!"

In which Andrej managed to force a 5' 9" man into an uncomfortable but inaccurate-according-to-the-shadows position so that (5' 9.5" Oswald) "Prayer Man" wouldn't look too tall or too short (or something like that) compared to Frazier in Couch-Darnell?

 

Question:  How in the world did "PM" pivot, between Weigman and Couch-Darnell, towards Frazier on just one foot on a step like that, for cryin' out loud? 

 

 

(Sorry; Laughing Out Loud)

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

YOU are the one inventing these scenarios, not I.  YOU are the one claiming to know things NOT IN EVIDENCE. 

I'm fairly certain that I haven't mentioned exactly what my position is on Prayer Man. 

If you want to "solve" the assassination based upon speculation, have at it. Then you and Mr. Trejo can start your own fact-free Miseducation Forum, and run it any way you choose.

As for me, I'll stick with the evidence we can see.

[Ray Mitcham]

2 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

YOU are the one inventing these scenarios, not I.  YOU are the one claiming to know things NOT IN EVIDENCE. 

I'm fairly certain that I haven't mentioned exactly what my position is on Prayer Man. 

If you want to "solve" the assassination based upon speculation, have at it. Then you and Mr. Trejo can start your own fact-free Miseducation Forum, and run it any way you choose.

As for me, I'll stick with the evidence we can see.

[Thomas Graves]

9 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

 

Atta boy, Ray!

 

Well spoken!

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

14 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

YOU are the one inventing these scenarios, not I.  YOU are the one claiming to know things NOT IN EVIDENCE. 

I'm fairly certain that I haven't mentioned exactly what my position is on Prayer Man. 

If you want to "solve" the assassination based upon speculation, have at it. Then you and Mr. Trejo can start your own fact-free Miseducation Forum, and run it any way you choose.

As for me, I'll stick with the evidence we can see.

 

Mark,

 

The evidence we can SEE?

 

That's exactly what I've been talking about!

 

--  TG

 

[Mark Knight]

To elaborate... David Von Pein and I aren't that far apart, when it comes to the evidence. Where we differ is to the weight given to certain evidence, and to our conclusions about what the evidence tells us.

Damn the speculation. Give me evidence, and let me decide whether I believe it to be important or unimportant.

[Mark Knight]

Just now, Thomas Graves said:

 

Mark,

 

The evidence we can SEE?

 

That's exactly what I've been talking about!

 

--  TG

 

So we SEE THEM carrying on this conversation? We KNOW verbatim what was said?

Gee, Mr. Graves; it seems you've been holding out on us.

[Thomas Graves]

10 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

So we SEE THEM carrying on this conversation? We KNOW verbatim what was said?

Gee, Mr. Graves; it seems you've been holding out on us.

 

Mark,

 

Should there have been a stenographer there to take notes?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

Absent a record...

...we're left with...

SPECULATION.

S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N.

Now. Take those letters, in that order, and write the word "FACT."

In case you didn't notice, it's an impossible task.

And yet...you persist.

[Paz Marverde]

56 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

YOU are the one inventing these scenarios, not I.  YOU are the one claiming to know things NOT IN EVIDENCE. 

I'm fairly certain that I haven't mentioned exactly what my position is on Prayer Man. 

If you want to "solve" the assassination based upon speculation, have at it. Then you and Mr. Trejo can start your own fact-free Miseducation Forum, and run it any way you choose.

As for me, I'll stick with the evidence we can see.

I fully subscribe. Word by word

[Paz Marverde]

23 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

Absent a record...

...we're left with...

SPECULATION.

S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N.

Now. Take those letters, in that order, and write the word "FACT."

In case you didn't notice, it's an impossible task.

And yet...you persist.

Ditto