Does the Cover-up Point to the Assassination Plotters?

[Steve Thomas]

47 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Steve - didn’t I read that the 316th had 30 men?

Do you dismiss Brandstetter’s statement that he and ACSI Colonel Rose agreed that he should join the 488th? Have you been able to document any membership lists to other such Detachments? You’ve dug long and hard into this and have indeed found previously unknown references to the 488th. Even Cagley says 90% were no larger than a rifle squad. That leaves 10% as being out of the usual size.

Paul,

 

Here's what little I know:

 

MEMORANDUM

(Updated version as of February 21, 1997)

To:

Jeremy Gunn

cc: David Marwell; Chris Barger; Doug Horne; Brian Rosen; Joan Zimmerman

From: Tim Wray

Subject: Army Intelligence in Dallas

“Here's some of what we've learned so far about Army intelligence in Dallas”

 

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/ARRB/JMASIH/WP-DOCS/TIM/112DALLA.WPD.PDF

"3. 316th INTC Detachment.

The 112th INTC Group's personnel total given above does not include members of the smaller 316th INTC Detachment, which had an authorized strength of 38 in 1963."

 

As far as Brandstetter goes, the question in my mind, is which 488th?

Given Brandstetter's high standing, and the upper-level kind of things he was involved with, I can believe that it was the real 488th.

Did you say that in Brandstetter's book, he never mentioned Crichton by name?

 

Steve Thomas

PS: The 316th was stationed in Thailand in the late 1960's.

 

[Paul Brancato]

26 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Paul,

 

Here's what little I know:

 

MEMORANDUM

(Updated version as of February 21, 1997)

To:

Jeremy Gunn

cc: David Marwell; Chris Barger; Doug Horne; Brian Rosen; Joan Zimmerman

From: Tim Wray

Subject: Army Intelligence in Dallas

“Here's some of what we've learned so far about Army intelligence in Dallas”

 

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/ARRB/JMASIH/WP-DOCS/TIM/112DALLA.WPD.PDF

"3. 316th INTC Detachment.

The 112th INTC Group's personnel total given above does not include members of the smaller 316th INTC Detachment, which had an authorized strength of 38 in 1963."

 

As far as Brandstetter goes, the question in my mind, is which 488th?

Given Brandstetter's high standing, and the upper-level kind of things he was involved with, I can believe that it was the real 488th.

Did you say that in Brandstetter's book, he never mentioned Crichton by name?

 

Steve Thomas

PS: The 316th was stationed in Thailand in the late 1960's.

 

I read Brandy’s book on Goodreads. I can try browsing through it again, but not having a hard copy makes that difficult. I’ll try to answer your question. Brandy’s book makes very good reading btw. My memory is that it was the same Detachment, located in Dallas. Appears we don’t know much about the 316th either, except it’s size - 38 - and it’s German born commander. Recall that we both agreed that Colonel Jones was stationed in Germany at the same time as he was in the 112th. We know he lied to the WC about his actual position there. 

[Jim Hargrove]

The “Study of Military Intelligence Detachments” by Thomas Cagley that Steve found seems to indicate that a 488th MID did indeed exist, even though there is not much mention of it publicly.  If we accept that it probably did exist, we can then concentrate on whether it was located in Dallas and whether Crichton was really associated with it. 

Is this a fair characterization of where we stand?  The "Army Intelligence in Dallas" memo Steve linked us to above makes no mention of the 488th MID, which, frankly, is exactly what I'd expect from a government document if some bureaucrat knew, or suspected, the 488th had something to do with JFK's murder.  Am I being too cynical?

[Steve Thomas]

19 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

The “Study of Military Intelligence Detachments” by Thomas Cagley that Steve found seems to indicate that a 488th MID did indeed exist, even though there is not much mention of it publicly.  If we accept that it probably did exist, we can then concentrate on whether it was located in Dallas and whether Crichton was really associated with it. 

Is this a fair characterization of where we stand?  The "Army Intelligence in Dallas" memo Steve linked us to above makes no mention of the 488th MID, which, frankly, is exactly what I'd expect from a government document if some bureaucrat knew, or suspected, the 488th had something to do with JFK's murder.  Am I being too cynical?

Jim,

 

Consider that Cagley's Study was done in 1991. If he has the 488th reporting to the DIA, the DIA wasn't established until 1961. Depending on when the 488th was activated, it could be that the chain of command for the 488th prior to 1961 went elsewhere. Crichton was supposed to have created his 488th in 1956.

To date, I have not found a history of the 488th - that would be nice to find - preferably from a government source; but many Army domestic intelligence files were destroyed in 1971 following the Army spy trials.

One possible location might be:

Records of the Army Staff
(Record Group 319)

https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/319.html#319.16

 

319.16 Records of the Office of Reserve Components
1956-63

 

Another possible location would be here:

319.18 Records of the Office of the Chief, Army Reserve
1922-64

https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/319.html#319.12

 

Steve Thomas

[Ron Bulman]

18 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

So essentially your saying that the gang that killed JFK turned to the mob to kill Oswald.

Yeah.  The plan didn't go fully according to plan and they had to resort to a unplanned backup "accommodation".

I think maybe Ozzie wasn't supposed to be out front with Shelly, maybe on the steps with Buel.  Maybe when he heard reports JFK had really been shot from passers by he knew he was screwed and ran and hid, to the only place he though he might have a way out, the Texas Theater.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Ron Bulman

[Jim Hargrove]

This has been discussed here before, but in a WikiSpooks article presenting a 2010 COPA speech by Peter Dale Scott, Dr. Scott seems to accept the existence of the 488th MID in Dallas without offering a whole lot of proof for it.  His description (please correct me if I'm wrong) seems to essentially follow Crichton’s.

The print edition of his speech includes the following:

Researcher Larry Haapanen has discovered the 488th seems to have had its own direct chain of command linking it to Washington. In an esoteric publication entitled The Military Order of World Wars (Turner Publishing Company, 1997, p. 120), he found that Crichton "commanded the 488th MID (Strategic), reporting directly to the Army Chief of Intelligence and the Defense Intelligence Agency." [56]. And in 1970 Haapanen was told by Crichton’s commander in the Texas Army Reserve, Lt. Col. Whitmeyer, that Crichton's unit did its summer training at the Pentagon.

Has anyone actually seen p. 120 of this obscure work?   I know from long experience that my rural library system has essentially no chance whatsoever of having the book.

[Steve Thomas]

On 8/25/2018 at 7:57 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

This has been discussed here before, but in a WikiSpooks article presenting a 2010 COPA speech by Peter Dale Scott, Dr. Scott seems to accept the existence of the 488th MID in Dallas without offering a whole lot of proof for it.  His description (please correct me if I'm wrong) seems to essentially follow Crichton’s.

The print edition of his speech includes the following:

Researcher Larry Haapanen has discovered the 488th seems to have had its own direct chain of command linking it to Washington. In an esoteric publication entitled The Military Order of World Wars (Turner Publishing Company, 1997, p. 120), he found that Crichton "commanded the 488th MID (Strategic), reporting directly to the Army Chief of Intelligence and the Defense Intelligence Agency." [56]. And in 1970 Haapanen was told by Crichton’s commander in the Texas Army Reserve, Lt. Col. Whitmeyer, that Crichton's unit did its summer training at the Pentagon.

Has anyone actually seen p. 120 of this obscure work?   I know from long experience that my rural library system has essentially no chance whatsoever of having the book.

Jim,

 

Paul Brancato and I have collaborated on this a little.

 

Here is Jack Crichton's entry that is on page 87 of the MOWW:

 

See: https://books.google.com/books?id=ibtADE8gMeoC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=%22Legion+of+Merit%22+Crichton&source=bl&ots=UsV17DJRk7&sig=sw-DLTVYZL9P6SKEfsWpeLEhvEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJruvqzcvRAhXKw1QKHbOTD2IQ6AEINzAF#v=onepage&q=%22Legion%20of%20Merit%22%20Crichton&f=false

 

Page 120 should have the entry for George Lumpkin, but it doesn't. At least in the 1995 edition. (The book is arranged alphabetically)

It's possible that the 1977 edition (the first edition I think) would have Lumpkin's entry.

Here's the Worldcat entry for the 1977 edition. You are right - it is a rare book. The Dallas chapter of the MOWW doesn't even have a copy.

There are a couple of Texas libraries that have a copy in their reference department, which means they won't lend it out on Interlibrary Loan, but perhaps the reference department will make a photocopy of page 120 for you.

The History of the Military Order of the World Wars: Its first fifty years Hardcover – 1977

 

https://www.amazon.com/History-Military-Order-World-Wars/dp/B0006X3KHQ

 

• Hardcover: 294 pages

• Publisher: Military Order of the World Wars; 1st edition (1977)

• Language: English

 

http://www.worldcat.org/title/history-of-the-military-order-of-the-world-wars-its-first-fifty-years/oclc/907839883&referer=brief_results

 

Steve Thomas

Edited September 14, 2020 by Steve Thomas

[Richard Price]

Is this the same book (or a different variation/version) that is on Amazon right now for $25.  It is listed as B0006X3KHQ, first edition, 1977 by George Carroll Dyer and has 294 pages.

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Richard Price said:

Is this the same book (or a different variation/version) that is on Amazon right now for $25.  It is listed as B0006X3KHQ, first edition, 1977 by George Carroll Dyer and has 294 pages.

Richard,

 

Looks like it could be - probably is.

I know that at the U. Texas El Paso, it's marked rare book collection, in-library use only.

 

Steve Thomas

[Jim Hargrove]

Steve and Paul have probably already discussed the following, but I'm still trying to catch up.  Anyway, the Find a Grave listing for George Whitmeyer has the following lurid write-up (emphasis added by me):

Lt Col Whitmeyer was riding in the Pilot Car, driven by DPD Dep. Chief George Laster Lumpkin - the first car in President Kennedy's motorcade in Dallas when he was assassinated. Whitmeyer was head of the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, Dallas, started by Maj. Jack Crichton, and gave the military protection stand-down order. Lumpkin was the Captain of the 488th. Whitmeyer died just days before he was to give testimony on the Kennedy assassination to the HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations) in 1978.

There is a "suggest edits" button on the Find a Grave listings, but I have no idea who finalizes these things.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Jim Hargrove

[Paul Brancato]

6 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Steve and Paul have probably already discussed the following, but I'm still trying to catch up.  Anyway, the Find a Grave listing for George Whitmeyer has the following lurid write-up (emphasis added by me):

Lt Col Whitmeyer was riding in the Pilot Car, driven by DPD Dep. Chief George Laster Lumpkin - the first car in President Kennedy's motorcade in Dallas when he was assassinated. Whitmeyer was head of the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, Dallas, started by Maj. Jack Crichton, and gave the military protection stand-down order. Lumpkin was the Captain of the 488th. Whitmeyer died just days before he was to give testimony on the Kennedy assassination to the HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations) in 1978.

There is a "suggest edits" button on the Find a Grave listings, but I have no idea who finalizes these things.

I’d love to know who wrote this Find a Grave entry. I really can’t understand why there is so little biographical info on Whitmeyer, Lumpkin, Westbrook, and others who were DPD or local MI or both.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Paul Brancato

[Paul Brancato]

11 hours ago, Richard Price said:

Is this the same book (or a different variation/version) that is on Amazon right now for $25.  It is listed as B0006X3KHQ, first edition, 1977 by George Carroll Dyer and has 294 pages.

I’ll be home until Tuesday night and check what edition of MOWW I purchased a few months ago. 

[Steve Thomas]

11 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Steve and Paul have probably already discussed the following, but I'm still trying to catch up.  Anyway, the Find a Grave listing for George Whitmeyer has the following lurid write-up (emphasis added by me):

There is a "suggest edits" button on the Find a Grave listings, but I have no idea who finalizes these things.

Jim,

 

About Find A Grave:

https://www.findagrave.com/about

 

Frequently asked Questions:

 

https://www.findagrave.com/list-faqs

 

Steve Thomas

[Michaleen Kilroy]

For me, the most compelling evidence pointing to the conspirators are those CIA officials who lied and covered up the agency's involvement with the DRE during the time of LHO.

Richard Helms, David Phillips and William Kent all knew each other, knew the CIA was involved with the DRE during the late summer and fall of 1963, and covered up that connection and their knowledge of it.  Helms personally put George Joannides in charge of handling the DRE.  And the circumstantial evidence is strong that all four officials knew or were personally involved in an anti-FPCC operation in NO and Mexico City, and that this likely included the use of LHO as a witting or unwitting asset.

Helms kept the WC in the dark about the agency's DRE control and committed perjury during his HSCA questioning when he said he knew of no further relevant information regarding the assassination.  Helms, Phillips and Kent all kept quiet as Joannides took over as the CIA's liaison to the HSCA.

Former HSCA investigator Dan Hardway does a great job summarizing the incriminating evidence against these guys here: https://aarclibrary.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Doc.-156-1.-Dan-L.-Hardway-Declaration.pdf

For me, the main problem with the JFK research community is that it goes in so many different directions rather than focusing on the most compelling evidence of wrongdoing or suspicious behavior.  That way the American media and public remain bewildered and confused rather than outraged and demanding answers.  

The tale of these four officers and their cover-up of the DRE-CIA connection and the anti-FPCC operations in NO and MC in the weeks before the assassination, as well as the decades-long refusal of the CIA to explain or release pertinent files regarding this issue, is the best evidence of conspiracy we have in this case, IMHO.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Mike Kilroy

[Michael Clark]

4 minutes ago, Mike Kilroy said:

For me, the most compelling evidence pointing to the conspirators are those CIA officials who lied and covered up the agency's involvement with the DRE during the time of LHO.

 Richard Helms, David Phillips and William Kent all knew each other, knew the CIA was involved with the DRE during the late summer and fall of 1963, and covered up that connection and their knowledge of it. 

I add James McCord Jr. to this group as well. McCord had the highest clearances attainable and was running, at the time, operations to infiltrate state-side Cuban groups. McCord was directing LHO, with little or no separation.