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[John Butler]

Does this sound like a FBI informant code:  IS-R?

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

Does this sound like a FBI informant code:  IS-R?

John,

I'm pretty sure that IS-R stands for Internal Security - Russia.

It's more like a category than an Informant Code.

I once spent some time trying to figure out why some memos relating to Oswald were labeled IS and some were labeled IS-R.

I wondered if it had something to do with the date the report was written, but that assumption really didn't pan out.

I never really did learn the difference.. I think it had more to do with the person making out the report and whatever quirks they were writing under at the time than anything else.

 

Steve Thomas

[John Butler]

Steve,

Thanks for the reply.  That sounds convincing.  So, IS-R is about intelligence activity involving Oswald.  Next question, is this an FBI code or could it also be a CIA code?

It involves the Mrs. Jack Tippit phone call with this beginning to the report:

URGENT 11-30-63 7-37 PM EST MB

TO DIRECTOR, AND SACS DALLAS AND NEW YORK
FROM SAC, NEW HAVEN /100-18158/
NEW YORK VIA WASHINGTON
LEE HARVEY OSWALD, IS – R

This heading seems to say that this is an important matter which in a period of hours on Nov. 30, from 11:30 AM to 7:37 PM, 1963 travels to Washington and then on to New York and Dallas. The IS-R could then refer to Oswald's time in Russia.  This would mean that someone in Washington is alerting the various offices of the FBI on this matter in order to keep it secret.

At the same time it is being marked Top Secret and not to be declassified.  And, remains so until the days of the ARRB.

[Steve Thomas]

3 hours ago, John Butler said:

Steve,

Thanks for the reply.  That sounds convincing.  So, IS-R is about intelligence activity involving Oswald.  Next question, is this an FBI code or could it also be a CIA code?

It involves the Mrs. Jack Tippit phone call with this beginning to the report:

URGENT 11-30-63 7-37 PM EST MB

TO DIRECTOR, AND SACS DALLAS AND NEW YORK
FROM SAC, NEW HAVEN /100-18158/
NEW YORK VIA WASHINGTON
LEE HARVEY OSWALD, IS – R

This heading seems to say that this is an important matter which in a period of hours on Nov. 30, from 11:30 AM to 7:37 PM, 1963 travels to Washington and then on to New York and Dallas. The IS-R could then refer to Oswald's time in Russia.  This would mean that someone in Washington is alerting the various offices of the FBI on this matter in order to keep it secret.

At the same time it is being marked Top Secret and not to be declassified.  And, remains so until the days of the ARRB.

John,

I wouldn't say that the IS-R category is specific to Oswald. That's just the category, or subheading that this particular memo about Oswald was filed in. That category was probably used with a lot of other people as well.

With the particular memo you cited; the 11-30-63 number is the date of the memo --- November 30, 1963.

It's a memo from the Special Agent in Charge in New Haven to the Director with copies to the SAC in New York, and probably also to the Washington Field Office. I have no idea what the memo was about.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Steve Thomas

[John Butler]

10 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

John,

I wouldn't say that the IS-R category is specific to Oswald. That's just the category, or subheading that this particular memo about Oswald was filed in. That category was probably used with a lot of other people as well.

With the particular memo you cited; the 11-30-63 number is the date of the memo --- November 30, 1963.

It's a memo from the Special Agent in Charge in New Haven to the Director with copies to the SAC in New York, and probably also to the Washington Field Office. I have no idea what the memo was about.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Steve,

Thanks.  It's the Mrs. Tippit call FBI document.  It's what we have been discussing for the last several pages in Jim Hargrove's thread.  I thought the message was sent from the New Haven FBI office to the Director and then from Washington was sent Dallas and New York.  I wasn't sure of that.  It's the via Washington part that was confusing.

I agree on the IS-R comment.  It makes sense that it wouldn't be specific.  Thanks again.

[Larry Hancock]

If Ernie Lazar is not participating in this thread he should certainly be invited - I suspect he could offer major insights into the FBI office and group designations as well as to its routing codes.

 

[Michael Clark]

34 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

If Ernie Lazar is not participating in this thread he should certainly be invited - I suspect he could offer major insights into the FBI office and group designations as well as to its routing codes.

 

@Ernie Lazar

[John Butler]

Does anyone know what these informant names refer to:

SI 131-S

CG 5824-S or

CG 5324-S

[Steve Thomas]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:49 PM, John Butler said:

Does anyone know what these informant names refer to:

SI 131-S

CG 5824-S or

CG 5324-S

John,

While I can't help you with your specific request, I have done a little bit of research in how to find out about specific classes of informants. In several cases, I have run across references to the the FBI's, "Manual of Instructions". Needless to say, this "Manual" is very big. I'm pretty sure that an SI is a Security Informant.

Here's one instance:

https://archive.org/stream/SecurityInformantProgram/Security%20Informant%20Program/
1201915-0%20-%2066-HQ-2542-3%20-%20Section%2025%20Serial%20%201%20COVER%20SHEETMediaPag_djvu.txt
Memoramum 
to: Mr. Jenkin 
from: T. J. Brownfield^ 

SUGGESTION: When converting an informant from one classification to another^ suggests the FD form (pink sheet) be block stamped 
and made serial 1 of the new informant file. For instance, if a 170 (Extremist Informant) was being converted 
to a 137 (Criminal Informant) and had ten serials, the pink sheet would be serial 1 of the new 137 file and all prior 
serials would not be changed. These would retain the original file and serial numbers. The new 137 file number would be 
added to the 170 index, card in indices. A charge out would be placed in the 170 file indicating the transfer had been made.; 

There's a reference to this "Manual of Instructions" in the Warren Hearings themselves

CE 836 page 819
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=845&tab=page

 

I'll keep looking to see if I can find this Manual online.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

20 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

John,

 In several cases, I have run across references to the the FBI's, "Manual of Instructions". Needless to say, this "Manual" is very big.

I'll keep looking to see if I can find this Manual online.

 

I did just run across a reference that this Manual is four volumes big.

Steve Thomas

[John Butler]

Steve,

I typed in FBI cryptonyms and found information on CG 5824-S*.  This was an FBI informant name Morris Childs.  He and his brother, Jack, were communists.  They were the top double agent spies for the FBI for a long period of time.

Morris Childs was such a good communist the communists gave him awards.  He also a good double agent for the FBI they gave him awards.

 

[Bill Simpich]

It's useful to keep in mind that many people are witting or unwitting "assets", and others are "sources" - neither description is the same as an informant, who is paid for their work.  

The "T-1" type of cryptonyms only give you information about that specific case - when you see a crypt with a city prefix and a C or an S suffix, you have a more substantial "symboled informant" at hand.

[Larry Hancock]

Ernie Lazar gave us some very good definitions of the official levels of sources and informants, including "provisional criminal informant" which Jack Ruby was in 1959.  The highest level of informants, those potentially of use in an actual criminal case where charges had been brought and prosecution was going to occur got serious protection since they were likely to be used in court.  I'm not sure what the equivalent was in subversive/security cases?  I recently noted that Heitman describes both himself and Hosty as being on the "security beat" in Dallas, which is a lot different from doing criminal work.  It also adds a lot of weight to Hosty's remark about Oswald being observed with "subversives".....  

[Paul Brancato]

15 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Ernie Lazar gave us some very good definitions of the official levels of sources and informants, including "provisional criminal informant" which Jack Ruby was in 1959.  The highest level of informants, those potentially of use in an actual criminal case where charges had been brought and prosecution was going to occur got serious protection since they were likely to be used in court.  I'm not sure what the equivalent was in subversive/security cases?  I recently noted that Heitman describes both himself and Hosty as being on the "security beat" in Dallas, which is a lot different from doing criminal work.  It also adds a lot of weight to Hosty's remark about Oswald being observed with "subversives".....  

Should we not keep in mind, when looking at Hosty as a source, his connections with Walker and his Nazi pals? 

[Larry Hancock]

Would you run though that here again Paul,  are you suggesting Hosty was himself part of the conspiracy and that we need to toss all his remarks about Oswald?