JFK Conspiracy for Younger Generations

[Cliff Varnell]

Lawrence Schnapf wrote on Feb 13:

You all should get involved with the Truth andReconciliation Committee [/q]

Lawrence,

I'm a student of the Vincent Salandria School of Research into the Obvious.

After 21 years of engagement in fake debate all over the internet I finally gave up bickering over bs a couple of months ago. 

You can't do fake debate and be of the School of the Obvious.

If you could forward this post to Mr. Salandria, E. Martin Schotz, Marie Fonzi and of course Alec Baldwin and any other signatories of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee I'd greatly appreciate it.

David Lifton wrote of the following:

Cliff:  Very nice summary.  Brief, cogent, etc...[T]hanks for your cogent summary, which makes clear why the official version cannot possibly be true. DSL [/q Ed Forum 01/31/19]

 

JFK Conspiracy for Younger Generations

 

Rachel Maddow

Our special guest tonight -- on the 56th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy—is one of our favorite friends of the show, Alec Baldwin.  Welcome, Alec.

 

 Alec Baldwin

Thanks for having me on tonight, Rachel.  I’d like to take the opportunity to take a fresh approach to the murder of John F. Kennedy – no theories, just facts.  Approach the case like any cop would approach any murder.

 

Maddow

Loved you as Captain Ellerby in The Departed!

 

Baldwin

Hold that thought – I may get brutally honest soon enough.

 

Maddow (laughing)

I can’t wait!

 

Baldwin

Fact #1:  There is a bullet hole in JFK’s shirt 4 inches below the bottom of the collar.

Fact #2:  Kennedy’s personal physician filled out the official, verified Death Certificate and listed a wound in his back at the level of the 3rd thoracic vertebra, consistent with the location of the hole in the shirt.

Fact #3: The x-ray of Kennedy’s neck reveals a hairline fracture of the right T1 transverse process, that wing thing on your vertebra.

Fact #4:  Two doctors who attended to Kennedy at Parkland Hospital wrote in their contemporaneous notes that JFK had a wound of entrance in his throat.

Fact #5:  A Secret Service agent who rode in the car right behind Kennedy’s wrote in his contemporaneous notes that he saw JFK hit in the back four inches down the shoulder.

Fact #6: Two FBI agents who were assigned to make a report on the autopsy cabled FBI HQ and said there was a shallow wound in Kennedy’s back, and no bullet was found in the autopsy.

Those 6 facts encompass the strongest evidence in the case – physical evidence, documentary evidence, and the contemporaneous written accounts of 5 men in position of authority.

We know from this fact pattern that JFK was shot in the back at T3, the round didn’t exit, and no round was found during the autopsy.

There was a wound of entrance in the throat, no exit, and no round found during the autopsy.

Draw what conclusions you may, those are the facts.

 

Maddow

Wound in the back, no exit, no bullet found.  Wound in the throat, no exit, no bullet found.  What could have happened to those bullets, Alec?

 

 Baldwin

 I dunno. I don’t do theories.  Maybe folks in your profession could look into it – after all 56 years isn’t too late to do your jobs.

 

Maddow

And so… the Captain Ellerby treatment after all!  Thanks for comin’ on, Alec.

 

Baldwin

Thanks for having me, Rachel.

[/q]

Cliff Varnell

San Francisco

02/24/19 2:36 am

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Micah Mileto]

Why an entrance wound in the throat as a fact? That area was covered in blood and only seen for a few seconds, not examined microscopically.

[Denny Zartman]

54 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Why an entrance wound in the throat as a fact? That area was covered in blood and only seen for a few seconds, not examined microscopically.

Quote

 

"Dr. Perry was up all night. He came into my office the next day and sat down and looked terrible, having not slept. I never saw anybody look so dejected! They called him from Bethesda two or three times in the middle of the night to try to get him to change the entrance wound in the throat to an exit wound," Audrey Bell told me.

"My whole credibility as a trauma surgeon was at stake," Perry told me. "I couldn't have made a mistake like that. It destroys my integrity if I don't know an entrance wound from an exit wound!" he said.

"They really grilled Perry about it," Bell said. "They hounded him for a long time," Arlen Specter in fact went to great lengths to change what Perry had originally been quoted as saying. Specter's problem was that the entire staff at Parkland who had seen the wound insist today that it was an entrance wound.

- Harrison Livingstone, High Treason 2, Pg 121

 

 

[Micah Mileto]

4 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

 

Didn't Bell make up a story about the doctor showing her Kennedy's head wound? and also changed her story about recovering large bullet fragments instead of small ones?

[Denny Zartman]

Just now, Micah Mileto said:

Didn't Bell make up a story about the doctor showing her Kennedy's head wound? and also changed her story about recovering large bullet fragments instead of small ones?

How does that change the quote from Dr. Perry? Livingstone quotes Perry as saying "My whole credibility as a trauma surgeon was at stake... I couldn't have made a mistake like that. It destroys my integrity if I don't know an entrance wound from an exit wound!"

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

Why an entrance wound in the throat as a fact? That area was covered in blood and only seen for a few seconds, not examined microscopically.

You saw the wound?

T3 is too low for the back shot to have caused the T1 level hairline fracture. 

Believe otherwise I don't bicker over this kind of VichyCT crap anymore.

[Cliff Varnell]

The neck x-ray showed a hairline fracture of the right T1 transverse process.  Two Parkland doctors wrote contemporaneous notes describing the wound in the throat as an entrance, consistent with the T1 fracture.

The back shot at T3 was too low to account for the T1 fracture.

There is no valid intellectual argument for challenging the efficacy of the doctors statements.

To claim otherwise as many do is nothing but gratuitous witness bashing, beneath further response.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Micah Mileto]

47 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

You saw the wound?

T3 is too low for the back shot to have caused the T1 level hairline fracture. 

Believe otherwise I don't bicker over this kind of VichyCT crap anymore.

Are we sure the x-rays show a t1 level hairline fracture? If so, why do you trust the x-rays?

[Cliff Varnell]

1 minute ago, Micah Mileto said:

Are we sure the x-rays show a t1 level hairline fracture? If so, why do you trust the x-rays?

Dr. David Mantik verified the authenticity of the neck x-ray.

[Cliff Varnell]

12:06 to 14:40 Mr. Salandria discusses his greatest achievement.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Denny Zartman]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

Why an entrance wound in the throat as a fact? That area was covered in blood and only seen for a few seconds, not examined microscopically.

Dr. Baxter is quoted in the WC as saying the wound "could well represent either exit or entry wound" but completely contradicts himself in an interview taped in 1979, where he reportedly said it was an entrance wound.

Other than Dr. Baxter, I haven't found any medical professional from Parkland on record as saying JFK's anterior neck wound was possibly one of exit.

I also have not yet found a medical professional at Parkland that opined JFK's anterior neck wound was definitely one of exit.

Using Vincent Palamara's 2015 book "JFK: From Parkland To Bethesda" as my master source, I find that, in addition to Dr. Malcolm Perry and Nurse Audrey Bell, the following persons at Parkland also characterized JFK's anterior neck wound as one of entrance.

1. Dr. William Clark: "Dr. Kemp Clark...said that there were two wounds, a traumatic wound in the back of the head and a small entrance wound below the Adam's apple..." Pg. 1
2. Dr. Robert McClelland.: "this [the neck wound] did appear to be an entrance wound." ... "Dr. Robert Mc Clelland ... told me afterward that they still believed it [the neck wound] to be an entry wound." Pgs. 7-8
3. Dr. Marion Jenkins: saw an entry wound on JFK's neck; would let their 1963 observations stand. Pg. 13
4. Dr. Charles Carrico: "small penetrating wound of ent. neck" Pg. 14
5. Dr. Ronald Jones: "The hole [in the throat] was very small and relatively clean cut, as you would see in a bullet that is entering rather than exiting from a patient." ... "compatible with an entrance wound ... I would stand by my original impression." Pgs. 15-16
6. Dr. Gene Akin: "this [the neck wound] must have been an entrance wound..." Pg. 17
7. Dr. Paul Peters: "...we saw the wound of entry in the throat..." Pg. 19
8. Dr. Charles Crenshaw: "There were two wounds to the President that we observed at parkland. The first was a small and neat entrance wound to the throat..." Pg. 22
9. Dr. Charles Baxter: The wound in the neck was "no more than a pinpoint. It was made by a small caliber weapon. And it was an entry wound." Pg. 24
10. Dr. Joe Goldstritch: "...I realized how impossible it would have been for the neck wound I saw to have been an exit wound..." Pg. 44
11. Nurse Diana Bowron: "...the entry wound in his throat...looked like an entry wound." Pg. 33
12. Nurse Margaret Hinchliffe: "...a little hole in the middle of his neck ... About as big as the end of my little finger...An entrance bullet hole---it looked to me like...I have never seen an exit bullet hole---I don't remember seeing one that looked like that."; "...it was just a small wound and wasn't jagged like most of the exit bullet wounds that I have seen." ... "She also insisted the President had an "entry" wound in his throat." ... "Throat wound---Definitely an entrance wound. Resented Arlen Specter trying to get her to say it might be an exit wound..." Pgs 35-36

In summary,

Adding Dr. Perry and Nurse Bell, that seems to total 11 Parkland doctors and 3 nurses characterizing JFK's anterior neck wound as an entrance wound, with only one (Dr. Baxter) once saying that it could have either been entrance or exit, and then later contradicting himself and claiming that he believed it was one of entrance.

On the opposite end of this, there seems to be not one medical professional at Parkland who saw JFK's neck wound and consistently said that they believed it could have been either one of entrance or exit, or that they believed it was one of exit.

[Paul Brancato]

Cliff - thanks for the Salandria interview. His words are so prescient, and so timely. 

I wonder if Newman’s revelations on Veciana have changed Salandria’s views on David Atlee Phillips. Gaeton Fonzi, who Salandria admires greatly and whose book The Last Investigation he refers to with great reverence, concluded that Veciana was hiding his Intelligence connection with Phillips. John Newman has, I think successfully, shown Veciana to be a xxxx whose primary relationship was to the Pentagon, not CIA. Of course Phillips would still be a prime suspect even if he was not ‘Bishop’ and had never met Oswald. I personally think if anyone ran Oswald from New Orleans on it was David Morales, the other suspect mentioned by Salandria in this interview. 

[James DiEugenio]

Paul:

Even if John is correct, there are other witnesses that say that Phillips used the name of Maurice Bishop.

Phillips was also suspected of being in Banister's office for the Cuban exile telethon in 1961.

He also ran the the anti FPCC campaign along with McCord.

He was also involved in the whole MC  imbroglio. About which he lied his head off.

And he was part of the active cover up about that issue. Which he was smoking 3 cigarettes about when questioned.

Morales was running Oswald in New Orleans, and after?  Where the heck does that come from, Tommy Graves?

Edited February 24, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Paul:

Even if John is correct, there are other witnesses that say that Phillips used the name of Maurice Bishop.

Phillips was also suspected of being in Banister's office for the Cuban exile telethon in 1961.

He also ran the the anti FPCC campaign along with McCord.

He was also involved in the whole MC  imbroglio. About which he lied his head off.

And he was part of the active cover up about that issue. Which he was smoking 3 cigarettes about when questioned.

Morales was running Oswald in New Orleans, and after?  Where the heck does that come from, Tommy Graves?

Jim - research I did and posted back when suggests that Morales was seen at the Carousel Club. And Graves certainly had his suspicions about Morales being in NO watching Oswald leafleting. I think several people including Simpich - hope I got that right - think Morales a likely suspect for Oswald phone impersonations in MC. Morales and Phillips were close. I didn’t dismiss Phillips, just the story of his being seen by Veciana in the company of Oswald. Just suggesting Morales did the work on the ground.

Thanks for reminding us all of the long list of Phillips’ actions. 

[Denny Zartman]

Sorry, Jim. I wasn't trying to disparage those books or use "outdated" as a pejorative. I just wanted to acknowledge that much has been learned since they were written, as you yourself said in the introduction of your latest book. I'd continue to recommend the first edition of "Crossfire" to beginners and "Accessories After The Fact" to anyone wanting a useful reference book on the JFK assassination. A few months ago, I was able to quickly and easily find an obscure fact in "Accessories..." that had defied my Google-Fu, so I definitely believe "Accessories..." still has tremendous value. I apologize if it seemed like I was belittling either book.