Was Bill Shelley Oswald's CIA minder in the TSBD? Was he also at the New Orleans Trade Mart?

[Paul Jolliffe]

Alan,

I've watched the Tina Towner film (at least the spliced, edited version available online - in other words, the version of it after the FBI was done screwing around with it . . . ) and I just don't see anything odd about Lovelady in it. After all, Towner's film only shows the front steps of the TSBD for a moment or two, and Lovelady is so blurry that he's almost impossible to make out. 

What do you find suspicious about him at that very moment? 

(Note that I am NOT asking about the separate issue of Lovelady's precise movements after the shots were fired.)

 

 

[Alan Ford]

33 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Alan,

I've watched the Tina Towner film (at least the spliced, edited version available online - in other words, the version of it after the FBI was done screwing around with it . . . ) and I just don't see anything odd about Lovelady in it. After all, Towner's film only shows the front steps of the TSBD for a moment or two, and Lovelady is so blurry that he's almost impossible to make out. 

What do you find suspicious about him at that very moment? 

(Note that I am NOT asking about the separate issue of Lovelady's precise movements after the shots were fired.)

 

 

Forgive me, Mr. Jolliffe, I was writing in shorthand (partly so as not to hijack the current thread). But I'm happy to answer your question using the relevant images.

Yes, Towner shows the doorway for a very brief time----------------

Hughes (taken a mere couple of seconds before this) shows Mr. Lovelady standing well over on the west side of the doorway, behind and up a bit from the black man at the white west column---------------

Now let's look more closely at what's happening in Towner in the Lovelady location. It's quite startling---------------

Mr. Lovelady appears to be rather frantically waving a flag or somesuch at Pres. Kennedy.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Alan Ford

[Paul Jolliffe]

5 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

Forgive me, Mr. Jolliffe, I was writing in shorthand (partly so as not to hijack the current thread). But I'm happy to answer your question using the relevant images.

Yes, Towner shows the doorway for a very brief time----------------

Hughes (taken a mere couple of seconds before this) shows Mr. Lovelady standing well over on the west side of the doorway, behind and up a bit from the black man at the white west column---------------

Now let's look more closely at what's happening in Towner in the Lovelady location. It's quite startling---------------

Mr. Lovelady appears to be rather frantically waving a flag or somesuch at Pres. Kennedy.

Hmm.

Could be.

I wouldn't want to make a case against Lovelady on that alone, but still, it does appear he might be waving something. Why? Who knows?

But who could possibly have seen that motion at that moment? Almost no one except for (fortuitously) someone at Tina Towner's exact position. 

I am afraid that I am going to plead agnosticism on this one: I just can't decide what is going on there. 

[Joe Bauer]

Who's the tall blue shirted man standing next to the short Billy Lovelady?

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

20 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Who's the tall blue shirted man standing next to the short Billy Lovelady?

 

Good question.

And:

1. Which way is he facing in the Hughes film? (Toward the motorcade or away from it? Are we looking at his back as he lifts his arms above his head?)

2. Why is he not clearly visible in the Towner film? (How could he have disappeared in the one second between the two films? Even if we assume he stepped (back? forward?) into the shadows at that exact moment, the "why?" becomes even more provocative. The president's limo was literally right in front of him yet he retreated at that split second!)

Why?

[Alan Ford]

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Hmm.

Could be.

I wouldn't want to make a case against Lovelady on that alone, but still, it does appear he might be waving something. Why? Who knows?

But who could possibly have seen that motion at that moment?

Pres. Kennedy.

I believe

-----------Mr. Lovelady is giving him a pre-agreed signal that all is ready for go on the sixth floor and awaits final green light.

-----------And Mr. Greer, the driver, is watching (n the bespoke upper side-mirror) Pres. Kennedy for his response to the signal. (Mr. Greer's taking his eye off the road will cause him to nearly drive into the kerb.) The response to the signal comes: a brush of the hand through the hair. Its meaning being: yes, let's do this. Whoever is up on six sees this and prepares to take their missed shots.

Just before this, there is a splice in Towner. Several frames are inexplicably missing. I believe they showed Pres. Kennedy straining a little too obviously to check out the doorway for the pre-agreed signal he had been told to expect.

I also believe that the same telltale movement from Pres. Kennedy that was cut from Towner would explain why the extant Zapruder film does not show the turn onto Elm. TMI.

Just after the assassination, Officer Marrion L. Baker is shown in Darnell running towards something VERY curious over by the two mailboxes--------------

I believe the flag-waving and the above were part of the same operation, and that Mr. Oswald's planned pro-Castro political stunt near the mailboxes had to be aborted by Officer Baker's arrival and/or news reaching Mr. Oswald that Pres. Kennedy had actually been hit.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Alan Ford

[Alan Ford]

51 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Who's the tall blue shirted man standing next to the short Billy Lovelady?

You mean in front of him? Everyone thinks he's Mr. Carl Edward Jones, but I have serious doubts about that

[Paul Bacon]

20 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Who's the tall blue shirted man standing next to the short Billy Lovelady?

 

 

20 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Good question.

And:

1. Which way is he facing in the Hughes film? (Toward the motorcade or away from it? Are we looking at his back as he lifts his arms above his head?)

2. Why is he not clearly visible in the Towner film? (How could he have disappeared in the one second between the two films? Even if we assume he stepped (back? forward?) into the shadows at that exact moment, the "why?" becomes even more provocative. The president's limo was literally right in front of him yet he retreated at that split second!)

Why?

You guys aren't referring to Toni Glover in the Hughs film, are you?  She's standing on top of the pedestal across the street from the doorway.

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 11/23/2023 at 5:48 AM, Paul Bacon said:

 

You guys aren't referring to Toni Glover in the Hughs film, are you?  She's standing on top of the pedestal across the street from the doorway.

Thanks. Of course.

I should have picked that up earlier.

[Joe Bauer]

If any video filmed in Dealey Plaza that day would be deemed most alteration important it would have been those that showed the front steps of the TXSBD just before, during and right after the shooting.

Imagine even one that happened to show Lee Harvey Oswald back in the shaded area of the top steps?

Edited November 25, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:53 PM, Andrej Stancak said:

There is actually a thread on this Forum discussing the similarity between Bill Shelley and the man standing in the leafletting group in New Orleans, 1963: 

real evidence (for a change) – what is it with these pictures of Oswald leafletting? by Martin Bank, November 7, 2015.

 

Larry Hancock in that thread suggested that the man resembling Shelley was actually one Thomas Beckham.

 

Andrej, could you provide a link to the early forum Bill Shelley thread you mention?

I would really appreciate it.

Also, when looking at that photo of Thomas Beckham that L. Hancock thinks is the Oswald Trade Mart background man I see some discrepancies that seem so obvious to me.

1. The Beckham fellow is much younger looking than Shelley at that time.

2. His hair is much darker than the Trade Mart background photo man. And the Shelley look-a-like man has a paler skin tone.

3. The Trade Mart photo man's face is much, much more boney and cheek sunken in and brow bone protruding than Beckham.

4. Beckham' nose is more pointy on the end than Shelleys. The Trademart man's nose seems more flattened on the end like Shelleys.

5.  I don't know what this Beckham fellow did for a living but it looks to me that he is not a "suit and tie" type person.

He looks like a carney more than a suit and tie wearing professional person.

Beckham has a similar hugely high Everly Brothers/Elvis pompadour type hair style true. But I do not see the very prominent "widows peak" top of the forehead hair line Shelley had and the Trade Mart persons hair line seems to also depict. However Beckham's hair does drop down to cover his forehead to obscure any widows peak I admit.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

Has there ever been any other ID of the Trade Mart background man proposed besides Larry Hancock's Thomas Beckham?

This photo has been in circulation for what ... 50+ years?

And been widely seen by tens of thousands.

You'd think that someone ( family, friends, co-workers, law enforcement ) would have known this man and eventually came forward to reveal his name.

The fact that this man took the time to stop and look at Oswald's flyer and even stand and linger among Oswald's crew rather than just grab one and keep walking is a red flag imo.

Was the background man a security person employed by the International Trade Mart?

Was he an undercover agent for some government agency?

Were any other flyer passers employed by Oswald that day ever IDd and questioned?

If they were questioned, were they asked how much Oswald paid them?

How could Oswald afford to pay 3 extra men when he was on the lowest "unemployment income" level himself at that time?

 

[Andrej Stancak]

13 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Andrej, could you provide a link to the early forum Bill Shelley thread you mention?

I would really appreciate it.

Also, when looking at that photo of Thomas Beckham that L. Hancock thinks is the Oswald Trade Mart background man I see some discrepancies that seem so obvious to me.

1. The Beckham fellow is much younger looking than Shelley at that time.

2. His hair is much darker than the Trade Mart background photo man. And the Shelley look-a-like man has a paler skin tone.

3. The Trade Mart photo man's face is much, much more boney and cheek sunken in and brow bone protruding than Beckham.

4. Beckham' nose is more pointy on the end than Shelleys. The Trademart man's nose seems more flattened on the end like Shelleys.

5.  I don't know what this Beckham fellow did for a living but it looks to me that he is not a "suit and tie" type person.

He looks like a carney more than a suit and tie wearing professional person.

Beckham has a similar hugely high Everly Brothers/Elvis pompadour type hair style true. But I do not see the very prominent "widows peak" top of the forehead hair line Shelley had and the Trade Mart persons hair line seems to also depict. However Beckham's hair does drop down to cover his forehead to obscure any widows peak I admit.

 

Joe:

I was referring to this thread and Larry's posts within:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22417-real-evidence-for-a-change-–-what-is-it-with-these-pictures-of-oswald-leafletting/page/3/

 

[Joe Bauer]