Was Bill Shelley Oswald's CIA minder in the TSBD? Was he also at the New Orleans Trade Mart?

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, Marcus Fuller said:

Yeah 100%. In one of the images it shows another guy with a similar hairstyle but his face is a different shape and his hairline doesn't match either. From the images I'd describe Shelly as slightly gaunt.  If the photos were taken in Texas I suppose you could argue that Shelly bumped into Oswald on his way somewhere. But if it's in New Orleans that theory isn't going to fly. 

Exactly.

 

[Nick Bartetzko]

4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Exactly.

 

I’ve always thought it was Shelley. No question in my mind.

[Joe Bauer]

Imagine with new facial recognition technology if we could "prove" the person behind Oswald in the photo of Oswald during his New Orleans leaflet passing was truly Bill Shelley?

It is now possible to prove such a match.

What then? !!!

Could Shelley be the missing Oswald minder link?

Imagine how the entire Oswald as the lone gunman story would unravel.

Talk about a history changing bomb shell!

If that is provenly Shelley with Oswald in New Orleans just 4 months before 11,22,1963, hang on to your JFKA truth reality seeking hats folks.

A monster category 5 hurricane force storm of revision investigation and reporting will hit us all with 150 to 200 miles per hour wind gusts.

Reading Shelley's short interview testimony by the Warren Commission, Shelley recounts a story of a fellow TXSBD employee bringing in two rifles to show off to him and other office staff. Roy Truly included.

This gun "show and tell" event occurred just days before 11.22,1963.

Shelley recounted that in all of his 18 years employed at the Depository he never once recalled such an action.

Shelley said one of the rifles was of 22 caliber.

The second one was a modified "German Mauser!"

A Mauser? 

Isn't that what Dallas Sheriff constable gun buff Seymour Weitzman first identified as the gun found on the 6th floor on the TXSBD one half hour after the shooting?

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Joe Bauer
word spelling

[Joe Bauer]

Just doing some cursory searching of said William Shelley. 

Hardly anything pops up.

Can a forum member or two here enlighten me to some more substantial info on him?

Mary Ferrell perhaps? 

[Joe Bauer]

In ideal conditions, facial recognition systems can have near-perfect accuracy. Verification algorithms used to match subjects to clear reference images (like a passport photo or mugshot) can achieve accuracy scores as high as 99.97% on standard assessments like NIST’s Facial Recognition Vendor Test (FRVT).

How Accurate are Facial Re…

csis.org

 

[Joe Bauer]

There are at least ten reputable "Facial Recognition" tech companies who will perform test scans for a fee.

Looks like the fees start at around $1,000 for one?

If I get lucky and come across extra funds like that ( donations to our forum come first ) I will try to get one of these companies to compare the known and available pictures of William Shelley to the background man in the Lee Harvey Oswald flyer photo taken in New Orleans in August of 1963.

Heck, if I get lucky enough with funds, I'd also like them to compare these other look-alike photos of men in Dealey Plaza on 11,22,1963.

These would include Rip Robertson, Joseph Milteer, Gerry Patrick Hemming, David Morales, E. Howard Hunt, etal.

Hard to believe some wealthier people who are avid JFKA truth seekers haven't done this already.

I would also ask them if they know whether there is anatomical "body" scan Identification technology to check the suspected General Lansdale 3 tramp photo.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Marcus Fuller]

I'm sure one of the AI apps could do it, like Chat GPT, Waze etc. Free to use but might take a few hours or an afternoon to get 'Registered' on the website or whatever you have to do

[Gene Kelly]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:07 AM, Jean Ceulemans said:

Do we know how long he kept working for the TSBD post 11/22 ?

 

Jean

See the article in Kennedys and King in April 2020 by William Weston "The CIA and the TSBD".   Shelley started work at the Book depository in 1945 ... and he was still there 30 years later (at a relocated building site) when he was interviewed in 1975 by a young journalist named Elzie Dean Glaze.  The so-called "Glaze letters" (one of which was sent to the HSCA) are intriguing.  William Hoyt Shelley passed away in 1996, at age 70.

Gene

[Ian Lloyd]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:00 AM, Joe Bauer said:

Imagine with new facial recognition technology if we could "prove" the person behind Oswald in the photo of Oswald during his New Orleans leaflet passing was truly Bill Shelley?

It is now possible to prove such a match.

What then? !!!

Could Shelley be the missing Oswald minder link?

Imagine how the entire Oswald as the lone gunman story would unravel.

Talk about a history changing bomb shell!

If that is provenly Shelley with Oswald in New Orleans just 4 months before 11,22,1963, hang on to your JFKA truth reality hats folks. A monster category 5 hurricane force storm of revision investigation and reporting will hit us all with 150 to 200 miles per hour wind gusts.

Reading Shelley's short interview testimony by the Warren Commision Shelley recounts a story of a fellow TXSBD employee bringing in two rifles to show off to him and other office staff. Roy Truly included.

Warren Caster...

On 11/18/2023 at 1:00 AM, Joe Bauer said:

Shelley recounted that in all of his 18 years employed at the Depository he never once recalled such an action.

This was just days before 11,22,1963.

Shelley said one of the rifles was of 22 caliber.

The second one was a modified "German Mauser!"

A Mauser? 

Isn't that what Dallas Sheriff constable gun buff Seymour Weitzman first identified as the gun found on the 6th floor on the TXSBD one half hour after the shooting?

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Ian Lloyd
Name corrected.

[Jean Ceulemans]

1 hour ago, Gene Kelly said:

Jean

See the article in Kennedys and King in April 2020 by William Weston "The CIA and the TSBD".   Shelley started work at the Book depository in 1945 ... and he was still there 30 years later (at a relocated building site) when he was interviewed in 1975 by a young journalist named Elzie Dean Glaze.  The so-called "Glaze letters" (one of which was sent to the HSCA) are intriguing.  William Hoyt Shelley passed away in 1996, at age 70.

Gene

Thanks, I remember now reading it, I had forgotten some parts of it 

[Gene Kelly]

3 hours ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

Thanks, I remember now reading it, I had forgotten some parts of it 

According to William Weston, about four or five years after the assassination, Scott Foresman and another publisher called Southwestern decided to sever ties with the Texas School Book Depository. They constructed a new building in the northwest part of Dallas, which both companies shared. Dorothy Ann Garner, a former office supervisor at Scott Foresman, was interviewed by Weston. Ms. Garner told him that around 1969, Shelley quit the Book Depository and began working for Scott Foresman ... he was still there when Garner retired in 1986.

Weston later contacted William Shelley on March 20, 1995, and asked him if he would be willing to answer questions; his response was an abrupt no, and then added, "Everything that I have to say on that subject is in the public record. You'll have to go with that."

Shelley is an interesting character ... he was in charge of a work crew that spent the entire morning on the same floor where the sniper's nest, rifle, and empty cartridges were found. Plus, Oswald (in his early DPD interviews) had named Shelley as the one who told him he could leave the building.  If Oswald had been talking to Shelley prior to his departure, then he must've seen him getting away. Not long after, Shelley told Roy Truly that Oswald was missing (but how he came to this conclusion was never publicly disclosed).

Robert MacNeil was an NBC reporter on the White House staff, accompanying the President on his five-city tour of Texas. MacNeil ended up in the TSBD (looking for a pay phone) and saw a man using the phone who was likely Shelley, who claimed "I went back into the building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened." About a minute or two after MacNeil saw what he described as "three calm men" in the lobby of the TSBD, Oswald was told to leave by Shelley.

Gene

[Alan Ford]

24 minutes ago, Gene Kelly said:

Shelley is an interesting character ... he was in charge of a work crew that spent the entire morning on the same floor where the sniper's nest, rifle, and empty cartridges were found. Plus, Oswald (in his early DPD interviews) had named Shelley as the one who told him he could leave the building.  If Oswald had been talking to Shelley prior to his departure, then he must've seen him getting away. Not long after, Shelley told Roy Truly that Oswald was missing (but how he came to this conclusion was never publicly disclosed).

Mr. Truly cleared Mr. Oswald with a cop at the front door several minutes after the assassination. Mr. Billy Lovelady saw this happen and described the event to Mr. James Jarman.

[Gene Kelly]

Alan

I beleive that William Weston's thesis about Shelley is taken from reports filed by  FBI agents James Hosty and James Bookhout, who attended Captain Fritz’s first interview with Oswald. They wrote a joint report on 23 November, from notes taken on the 22nd. Hosty’s and Bookhout’s joint account of the first–day interview is the earliest surviving account of Oswald’s alibi. It implies this sequence of actions:

• At “approximately noon” Oswald ate his lunch in the domino room on the first floor.
• He then went up to the second floor, where he bought a Coke from the vending machine in the lunchroom.
• Finally, he went downstairs and was on the first floor when JFK came past.

A second FBI account of the first–day interview (after Oswald was dead) by Bookhout included an encounter with a policeman and being outside the building with Shelley. The earliest report contains no mention of Oswald being stopped by a police officer, as Fritz would later report:

OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca–cola from the soft–drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. MR. TRULY was present and verified that he was an employee, and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. OSWALD stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees’ lunchroom. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman BILL SHELLEY, and thereafter went home. (WR, p.619) 

The testimony of James Jarman and Harold Norman proved that Lee Oswald was on the first floor of the TSBD just a few minutes before the assassination. There also exists a cryptic version of Captain Fritz’s handwritten notes of Oswald’s interrogations of a claim by Oswald that he encountered a police officer while he was “out with Bill Shelley in front” of the TSBD.  At least is how I understand the extant record. 

Gene

[Joe Bauer]

I'm sure many other researchers have done comprehensive studies of the combined timelines stated by almost all the witnesses who saw Oswald directly from just before 12:pm that day until after the shooting.

I have just read about 6 of those accounts via the JFK Witness Page internet site which shows their Warren Commission testimony and affidavits taken by others like the Dallas Police, the FBI, etc.

There are several timeline contradictions in the Oswald sighting accounts.

However, there are more timelines that match.

When Shelley and Arce took the elevator down from the 6th floor down to the second floor to have lunch, they gave a general timeline of 5 minutes before 12:pm.

Danny Arce said they encountered Oswald who told them to go on. Oswald was on the 6th or 5th floor. Arce wasn't sure about the exact floor.

Shelley said he went to his office to eat his lunch and spent 10 minutes there.

He then went down to the first floor to the lobby and then eventually went out the front door to the outside steps to watch JFK drive by.

Shelley said he saw Oswald using the first floor lobby wall mounted telephone when he ( Shelley) was there.

So, this was around 10 to 15 minutes after 12:pm?

Before I state all the other sightings of Oswald from 11:55 am to 12:10 or 12:15 in the lobby, let me just propose what a remarkable feat it must have been for Oswald to be running back and forth from the 6th floor to the first floor lobby while setting up his perch to do JFK at 12:30 pm.

And don't forget famous news journalist Robert MacNeil who stated Oswald ( possibly Oswald ) directed him to a first floor phone just minutes after the shooting.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Paul Cummings]

I discussed this with Larry Hancock at JFK Lancer and he indicated it was Thomas Beckham