The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Kirk Gallaway]

6 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Well...the American people have largely tolerated or even embraced and paid taxes for not one but four major wars that were far, far from US shores in the postwar period--Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

"We are fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here!"

In contrast, Ukraine is wedged right up against Russia, and has been Russian territory on and off for 1000 years.

And now foreigners are pouring weaponry into Ukraine. Russia has been militarily attacked from the east more than once. 

I would say Putin has a far easier case to make to the Russian people than the DC leadership class has had in those four wars aforementioned, all of which were prosecuted at length and none of which were even close to US borders. 

Indeed, ponder the major US political parties today---does anyone in the either party challenge the globalized US military posture? The neo-cons and the neo-libs run the show---the ghost of Allen Dulles would be proud. 

There is no intellectual diversity anymore on foreign-military-trade matters--HRC and LIz Cheney are the same woman. (Cheney is the one wearing glasses). 

Why would you expect a broad-based anti-war movement in Russia?  

You see how US non-interventionists are treated, even despised, marginalized, called "dangerous extremists." 

Russia? 

 

 

 

 

 

Ben:

I happen to be hawkish on Ukraine, and would prefer going to No Fly Zones.

I now advocate a No Fly Zone for Ukraine, and possibly even NATO boots on the ground. 

Times change and so yes, I have moved to a more-hawkish position on Ukraine.

 

We know  Ben, we heard it many , many times. Watch your escalation!

Biden is:

 

flat footed

a Moscow stooge and a Putin puppet!

Biden shown no resourcefulness, any imagination, any capacity for warding off what now appears inevitable? 

The Biden Administration seems lost. Feeble. Directionless. Clueless.  

Biden has been underwhelming on Ukraine. Confused.        You've certainly been overwhelming wrong, Ben

Biden/NATO need to do a lot more on Ukraine.

Biden has agreed to those terms of battle.  Seems a bit muddleheaded, no? 

No new plans, no initiatives, no means to deliver some real losses to Russians.

Biden and NATO have allowed Putin to dictate terms of battle.     that really hit the nail on the head 

The Russians can fly jets over Ukraine, but Biden/NATO cannot.    complete BS!

Biden has been on his back foot all along on Ukraine, and the result is a horrible diplomatic, military and humanitarian catastrophe.     certainly not as macho as you Ben.

 

It's pretty obvious, sleepy Joe kept Ben up for a few nights in March!  Is this the tortoise firebombing the hare?

Next you'll be giving up in helplessness and calling for civil war!

 

but the rest of us urged restraint, as did Biden and the U.S. government. For those who say you're an inpenetrable wall, we can say no!, there is some trickle some osmosis, we served as your better angels!.

So it has a happy ending, at least until the next time!

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

 

Ben:

I happen to be hawkish on Ukraine, and would prefer going to No Fly Zones.

I now advocate a No Fly Zone for Ukraine, and possibly even NATO boots on the ground. 

Times change and so yes, I have moved to a more-hawkish position on Ukraine.

 

We know  Ben, we heard it many , many times. Watch your escalation!

Biden is:

 

flat footed

a Moscow stooge and a Putin puppet!

Biden shown no resourcefulness, any imagination, any capacity for warding off what now appears inevitable? 

The Biden Administration seems lost. Feeble. Directionless. Clueless.  

Biden has been underwhelming on Ukraine. Confused.        You've certainly been overwhelming wrong, Ben

Biden/NATO need to do a lot more on Ukraine.

Biden has agreed to those terms of battle.  Seems a bit muddleheaded, no? 

No new plans, no initiatives, no means to deliver some real losses to Russians.

Biden and NATO have allowed Putin to dictate terms of battle.     that really hit the nail on the head 

The Russians can fly jets over Ukraine, but Biden/NATO cannot.    complete BS!

Biden has been on his back foot all along on Ukraine, and the result is a horrible diplomatic, military and humanitarian catastrophe.     certainly not as macho as you Ben.

 

It's pretty obvious, sleepy Joe kept Ben up for a few nights in March!  Is this the tortoise firebombing the hare?

Next you'll be giving up in helplessness and calling for civil war!

 

but the rest of us urged restraint, as did Biden and the U.S. government. For those who say you're an inpenetrable wall, we can say no!, there is some trickle some osmosis, we served as your better angels!.

So it has a happy ending, at least until the next time!

 

 

Kirk-

This post is pinned to the top of the JFKA EF.  We are seeking new members. 

Try for a friendly, conversational tone. 

Let's discuss current events, but hopefully with the background what seems to have happened in the JFKA, and the role of shadow government, or the Deep State in US policies, and the role of a craven media. 

I have always supported policies I thought had the greatest chance of immediate peace in Ukraine. If the Russians could have been driven out of Ukraine earl on through the use of heavy air power, that should have been considered. 

Some say the US and Western elites have actually bungled their way into war, or even worse, intentionally provoked a war in Ukraine to engage in regime change operations in Russia (and make a lot of money along the way). A long war is good, as it may acheive both objectives. 

What are your views on that?

Do you think Biden is a tool of uber-Dullesites and the military-defense complex in DC?

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

I am friendly, you posted all this. Why do you take offense at someone showing you what you posted? You can check our responses by simply going back.

38 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Do you think Biden is a tool of uber-Dullesites and the military-defense complex in DC?

Let's stick to facts. You were the lone voice of Uber Dullesite militarism here, the major Ukraine  hawk who was continually pummeling Biden for not being tough enough. As I've shown to you. You've outhawked Biden and probably John Mc Cain if he were living. Fact, nobody in Congress could outhawk you, no matter what you say your intentions are now. Nobody's picking on you Ben. We just hold you accountable for what you say.

Explain your statement here and how it could possibly support peace?

Ben:

I happen to be hawkish on Ukraine, and would prefer going to No Fly Zones.

I now advocate a No Fly Zone for Ukraine, and possibly even NATO boots on the ground. 

Times change and so yes, I have moved to a more-hawkish position on Ukraine.

 

Nato boots. Ben?, You're pretty courageous with the blood of younger generations, there Popps!

41 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Let's discuss current events, but hopefully with the background what seems to have happened in the JFKA, and the role of shadow government, or the Deep State in US policies, and the role of a craven media. 

You've said this before. I don't accept your dictatorial authority about what is to be discussed on this thread. Particularly when you violate your own rules and continually bring modern politics over to the JFKA side.  Sometimes that can't be helped, but it's ok here.

I've challenged your concept of the Deep State on a number of occasions and you've run away. If you want, i can give you examples that we can put up for discussion.

To new people here I'd say concerning the modern Deep State . This isn't Grandpa Ben's 60's Deep State.

heh heh

 

I tell them the truth, and they think it's Hell!

Harry Truman

[Benjamin Cole]

22 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I am friendly, you posted all this. Why do you take offense at someone showing you what you posted? You can check our responses by simply going back.

Let's stick to facts. You were the lone voice of Uber Dullesite militarism here, the major Ukraine  hawk who was continually pummeling Biden for not being tough enough. As I've shown to you. You've outhawked Biden and probably John Mc Cain if he were living. Fact, nobody in Congress could outhawk you, no matter what you say your intentions are now. Nobody's picking on you Ben. We just hold you accountable for what you say.

Explain your statement here and how it could possibly support peace?

Ben:

I happen to be hawkish on Ukraine, and would prefer going to No Fly Zones.

I now advocate a No Fly Zone for Ukraine, and possibly even NATO boots on the ground. 

Times change and so yes, I have moved to a more-hawkish position on Ukraine.

 

Nato boots. Ben?, You're pretty courageous with the blood of younger generations, there Popps!

You've said this before. I don't accept your dictatorial authority about what is to be discussed on this thread. Particularly when you violate your own rules and continually bring modern politics over to the JFKA side.  Sometimes that can't be helped, but it's ok here.

I've challenged your concept of the Deep State on a number of occasions and you've run away. If you want, i can give you examples that we can put up for discussion.

To new people here I'd say concerning the modern Deep State . This isn't Grandpa Ben's 60's Deep State.

heh heh

 

I tell them the truth, and they think it's Hell!

Harry Truman

Kirk-

As stated, you should probably tone down your commentary. 

Do you have a point of view forward on Ukraine?

Is the present stance of Western elites designed to end the war quickly, or prolong the war in hopes of regime change in Russia? 

If there a profit-incentive at work in the the US military-industrial complex? 

[Steve Thomas]

You want a Special Master?  I'll give you a Special Master.

Be careful of what you wish for.

 

https://docs-cdn-prod.news-engineering.aws.wapo.pub/publish_document/3f49cb29-9e0b-49d9-b035-2fd960135ea4/published/3f49cb29-9e0b-49d9-b035-2fd960135ea4.pdf

 

 

 

Steve Thomas

[Mark Knight]

5 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Kirk-

As stated, you should probably tone down your commentary. 

Do you have a point of view forward on Ukraine?

Is the present stance of Western elites designed to end the war quickly, or prolong the war in hopes of regime change in Russia? 

If there a profit-incentive at work in the the US military-industrial complex? 

Ben,

I agree with Kirk. I don't think he's being unfriendly in his approach.

He's simply pointing out the inconsistencies in your thinking, as revealed by your posts. It's not unfriendly to point out that your positions have changed as the circumstances in Ukraine have changed.

Your ONE point of consistency: whatever Biden does, in your mind, it's wrong.

Biden HAS changed his response to the Russian invasion. His position has evolved with the circumstances on the ground there. Now that he's more hawkish, as you advocated early on, you say that's the wrong response. BE HONEST with us AND YOURSELF, Ben: in your eyes, there is NO move that Biden can make regarding Ukraine that will EVER be right.

Just come out and admit that simple truth, and you won't feel as though you're being attacked in an uncivil fashion [even though you're not being attacked in an uncivil fashion]. Be honest with yourself. The truth WILL set you free.

[Now tell me in what way my comments on this post are uncivil and discourage potential new forum members. I can't wait to hear your justification for such a position, if you are able to justify it at all.]

[Douglas Caddy]

Karma is working: both Putin and Trump are self-destructing at the same time. In the past they were partners in things evil.

 

[Steve Thomas]

You want to know what the scariest part of this whole thing is?

Donald Trump said that he could declassify things just by thinking about them.

That means that if I want to file a Freedom of Information request to get access to our nuclear codes, I would have to get inside of Donald Trump's mind.

No thank you. I'll pass.

Steve Thomas

 

[Andrew Prutsok]

4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

You want to know what the scariest part of this whole thing is?

Donald Trump said that he could declassify things just by thinking about them.

That means that if I want to file a Freedom of Information request to get access to our nuclear codes, I would have to get inside of Donald Trump's mind.

No thank you. I'll pass.

Steve Thomas

 

So how does he know that at 12:01 p.m. on Jan. 20, 2021 that Joe Biden didn't telepathically reclassify everything?

[Douglas Caddy]

 

[Benjamin Cole]

9 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

Ben,

I agree with Kirk. I don't think he's being unfriendly in his approach.

He's simply pointing out the inconsistencies in your thinking, as revealed by your posts. It's not unfriendly to point out that your positions have changed as the circumstances in Ukraine have changed.

Your ONE point of consistency: whatever Biden does, in your mind, it's wrong.

Biden HAS changed his response to the Russian invasion. His position has evolved with the circumstances on the ground there. Now that he's more hawkish, as you advocated early on, you say that's the wrong response. BE HONEST with us AND YOURSELF, Ben: in your eyes, there is NO move that Biden can make regarding Ukraine that will EVER be right.

Just come out and admit that simple truth, and you won't feel as though you're being attacked in an uncivil fashion [even though you're not being attacked in an uncivil fashion]. Be honest with yourself. The truth WILL set you free.

[Now tell me in what way my comments on this post are uncivil and discourage potential new forum members. I can't wait to hear your justification for such a position, if you are able to justify it at all.]

MK-

Your comments are fine, although the use of all caps is considered a form of i-shrieking. You may wish to drop the all caps, at least when addressing a fellow commenter.   

I don't see how I have been inconsistent in my commentary, although the situation in Ukraine has evolved, and thus reasonable people might have evolving views on the topic. 

For example, I can understand how some people would be reluctant to get involved in Ukraine, but after Mariupol was reduced to rubble, then said, "Well, I guess for humanitarian reasons, Putin has to be stopped." 

Yes, I thought a robust response was necessary in Ukraine early on the war (preferably before), and still do. I thought  only a robust response could dissuade Putin from proceeding with this insane war. I think I was right on that, although counterfactual histories are...well, hypothetical. And too late now. 

Yes, IMHO, Biden telling the world he was offering Zelensky refuge was a mistake, and I still don't understand why the US honors a Russian no-fly zone over Ukraine. 

For the future, any reasonable offramp from war is always worth exploring, although a robust response must be maintained. Peace is nearly always preferable to war.

That may not be what the globalist neo-con-libs (who control Biden) in DC want.  There is loose talk now about regime change in Moscow, perhaps obtained by a lengthy war in Ukraine. 

I pose this question to you: Here in this EF there is a rough consensus there is a form of a shadow government, or Deep State, that is very strong especially in foreign-military-trade policies.

This intel state may have murdered JFK, and is still operative (in my view, stronger than ever with the rise of globalist enterprises in the US). 

So now, I view Biden as representing the globalist shadow government. 

I might pose the question to you: Are you such a partisan you cannot accept a D-President is a tool of globalist interests and neo-con-libs?

In my view, the Donks have merged with the Deep State and M$M.  

You think otherwise? 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

You don't have to like Matt Gaetz, or his politics. In fact, I don't.

But smearing people---left or right-wing---with dubious and leaked sex charges has become a norm of sorts. 

Never mind telling people, "You know, Gaetz was never even charged, let alone found guilty in a court of law, of sex-trafficking." 

No doubt, some here will chortle at this. Just remember, this excrement-covered sword can cut both ways. 

HEADS UP — “Career prosecutors have recommended against charging Rep. MATT GAETZ (R-Fla.) in a long-running sex-trafficking investigation — telling Justice Department superiors that a conviction is unlikely in part because of credibility questions with the two central witnesses,” WaPo’s Devlin Barrett reports. 

[Matt Allison]

14 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

No doubt, some here will chortle at this. Just remember, this excrement-covered sword can cut both ways. 

 

I don't believe a word of that article, because there's no way anyone with actual knowledge in the DOJ  would ever talk to Devlin Barrett again.

This story ain't over. To be continued...

[Benjamin Cole]

9 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I don't believe a word of that article, because there's no way anyone with actual knowledge in the DOJ  would ever talk to Devlin Barrett again.

This story ain't over. To be continued...

Speaking of excrement, I sometimes think there are no blue or red pols in DC, only brown....

[Mark Knight]

My opinion on the "Deep State" in the US is that it's the oligarchy. It was in JFK's day, and it still is.

Trump didn't upset the "Deep State;" he was one of them. But when he lost the 2020 election, he was of no further use to them. When he was in office, they overlooked Trump's erratic style and his own grifting because he wasn't interfering with THEIR grifting. Now that Trump is out of office, and can no longer help them grift, they're leaving him twisting slowly, slowly in the wind, to face the consequences of HIS grift alone.

And my view is that the MAGA Republicans would rather tear the whole damn country down than work in good faith to build America up. January 6th was just a small sample of what they truly wanted [and still want] to do to America. They want to become the American Taliban, forcing a particular religious point of view on the whole nation. They want to ban books. And if the manager of my local Senior Citizen Center is an example [and I believe he is], they want to jail or kill anyone who doesn't wear a MAGA hat and fly a TRUMP flag. Their bloodlust at wanting to "HANG MIKE PENCE!" and shoot Nancy Pelosi, AOC [they likely don't even know her name] and Schumer was just a preview of what they want for everyone who doesn't conform to their ideas.

And their justification? "Freedom, baby!" But just THEIRS; no one else's freedom matters.