The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[W. Niederhut]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I ask forum members to treat each other courteously.

We are all trying to understand the world through the fog of the M$M and government misinformation. 

We have different perspectives.  I hope to try to understand other perspectives. 

Ben,

     I apologize for joking about your testicles today.  In terms of perspectives, it was, admittedly, a low blow.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 minute ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

     I apologize for joking about your testicles today.  In terms of perspectives, it was, admittedly, a low blow.

Aside from my anatomy, which at my age is unfortunately of no interest to anybody, there are some interesting topics out there to address.

1. Ukraine

2. Taylor Lorenz' "doxxing" of a right-wing twitter account

3. Jen Psaki's rotations between government and the private-sector---the new norm? 

4. The GOP: A death knell? A huge schism between the Populists and the Old Guard. Are there sensible populists who can seize the populist mantle and keep the party from suicide? The populist wing has more promise, but appears, well, populated by loonies. 

5. A U.S. Civil War? This was a hot topic for a while---but during funding season only? 

6. The Whitmer kidnapping case---abuse of covert federal powers? 

7. The Donks, and ID politics. Why the switch to ID politics from class-based politics, in the last 50 years? 

8. The runaway DoD and VA budgets. 

9. Trump seems to losing traction. He lacks a second act, appears to be doubling down on his first act. A one-trick pony? 

 

 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

39 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Trump seems to losing traction. He lacks a second act, appears to be doubling down on his first act. A one-trick pony? 

 

Ben- You are correct. He will not be the nominee in 2024 because he will not be able to outrun his legal problems.

The televised J6 hearings this summer will make him a pariah with all but the most mentally ill of his cult.

[Benjamin Cole]

15 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben- You are correct. He will not be the nominee in 2024 because he will not be able to outrun his legal problems.

The televised J6 hearings this summer will make him a pariah with all but the most mentally ill of his cult.

Matt-

For the party faithful, I wonder if the 1/6 hearings will have much impact. It looks like 'Phants dismiss the 1/6, and the Donks subscribe to every word. 

From my perspective, what is more important is Trump has nothing to say, just bombast. He won in 2016 on being the outsider, and some true, brash commentary amid a lot of clutter, some of it offensive.  

His position on China tariffs and border security were good (and opposed by the Donks and Old Guard 'Phants), but much of that has been adopted by the 'Phants. 

I think 'Phant voters will be looking for a fresh populist, and not Trump. The Old Guard 'Phants will be desperate to find someone to run, a Liz Cheney or someone. The party could self-immolate. 

The Donks are equally in the quagmire, hitched as they are to the rapidly fading Biden, and then if not him, Kamala Harris. 

Perhaps the decline of the two parties reflects the decline of the nation itself.  The globalists ran America down. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

For comic relief. The Capitol Police, in action again!

Washington (CNN)

A military parachute event featuring the Army Golden Knights at Washington's Nationals Park Wednesday night inadvertently triggered a "probable threat" warning at the US Capitol and prompted an evacuation order, sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

The exhibition was apparently part of a military appreciation night event hosted by MLB's Washington Nationals. Shortly after 6:25 p.m. ET, after dropping streamers to gauge the wind, a Golden Knights pilot gave an air traffic control tower at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport their plan to drop the parachutists, including the specific direction they were planning to fly.

US Capitol Police, apparently, had not been notified.

"Evacuate Now: Aircraft Intrusion" read the email subject line of a Capitol Police alert issued shortly after 6:30 p.m.

"The USCP is tracking an aircraft that poses a probable threat to the Capitol Complex," the email began, listing instructions for people at various locations at the complex.

A member of the Golden Knights descends into National Park before a baseball game between the Washington Nationals and the Arizona Diamondbacks on Wednesday, April 20, 2022.

Capitol Police moved swiftly to evacuate the campus, sounding a piercing alarm throughout the Capitol and its surrounding office buildings. Officers were going door to door in the building to make sure those inside were leaving as quickly as possible.

---30---

I wonder if AOC, or Matt Gaetz, was offended at the way Capital Police talked to them. 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

This is how confusion exists. Chris why I see you're upset about Matt's pro west, and anti Putin rhetoric. The truth is, it is just sincerely felt rhetoric. Matt hasn't been an aggressive proponent of Nato or American direct  involvement in Ukraine. If you really have a beef, you should go after Ben. Not that I'm trying to pair you guys off.

Ben listed as a topic to address:. The runaway DoD and VA budgets. 

Ben, You know a consensus we've had here for years and you've come here and added to, is the vileness of the U.S. Defense budget and war machine. And yet you don't see that your lofty aims of intervention are just going to stoke a locomotive of Defense spending for many years to come?

*****

Ben: And also my apologies with W. I guess i thought we were all over our pride about our anatomies. I known I don't want to be seen in public without my shirt off.. Though I might dive out into the ocean occasionally, and I'd be more accepted in Europe!

Matt; I like Snowden, I was merely commenting on the oppressiveness of his personal reality.

 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

This is how confusion exists. Chris why I see you're upset about Matt's pro west, and anti Putin rhetoric. The truth is, it is just sincerely felt rhetoric. Matt hasn't been an aggressive proponent of Nato or American direct  involvement in Ukraine. If you really have a beef, you should go after Ben. Not that I'm trying to pair you guys off.

Beef? With Matt? Hehe 

Not really, he’s very harmless, Kirk. He is just ruled by emotion on the matter and can only see one perspective and his position is very much “better dead than red.” Or, “if you’re not in my side then you’re my enemy.” It’s just a bit more complicated than that IMHO. I have shared a few links which present another facet to it from scholarly, informed people who are immersed in geopolitics. Neutral voices with peace in mind are what will deescalate this disaster, not tribal minds spouting Monroe Doctrine rhetoric or fantasies of a new Soviet Union. 
 

Ben and I agree and disagree on stuff, including this. But, we’re somehow able to do it civilly and respectfully. Perhaps its a personalities thing. 

🤷‍♂️ 
 

Intervention or supplying Ukraine with arms does keep the war machine and profits ticking over. Tax payers money being passed into private corporations hands. The usual thing ... A new cold war also keeps that going too. I’ll sound cynical again but, its another issue that consumes the news readers and takes the attention off our failing politicians. The public are much more malleable or manipulable when under the pressure of things like threats of nuclear war, pandemics etc. it makes me glad that I live somewhere that’s relatively free of that. 
 

Snowden is certainly paying a harsh price for whistleblowing. Did any of you like the Oliver Stone film titled after him? 
 

 

 
 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

13 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Beef? With Matt? Hehe 

Not really, he’s very harmless, Kirk. He is just ruled by emotion on the matter and can only see one perspective and his position is very much “better dead than red.” Or, “if you’re not in my side then you’re my enemy.” It’s just a bit more complicated than that IMHO. I have shared a few links which present another facet to it from scholarly, informed people who are immersed in geopolitics. Neutral voices with peace in mind are what will deescalate this disaster, not tribal minds spouting Monroe Doctrine rhetoric or fantasies of a new Soviet Union. 
 

Ben and I agree and disagree on stuff, including this. But, we’re somehow able to do it civilly and respectfully. Perhaps its a personalities thing. 

🤷‍♂️ 
 

Intervention or supplying Ukraine with arms does keep the war machine and profits ticking over. Tax payers money being passed into private corporations hands. The usual thing ... A new cold war also keeps that going too. I’ll sound cynical again but, its another issue that consumes the news readers and takes the attention off our failing politicians. The public are much more malleable or manipulable when under the pressure of things like threats of nuclear war, pandemics etc. it makes me glad that I live somewhere that’s relatively free of that. 
 

Snowden is certainly paying a harsh price for whistleblowing. Did any of you like the Oliver Stone film titled after him? 
 

 

 
 

 

 

I think Snowden should be forgiven and brought home.

IMHO what has happened to Julian Assange is indefensible. 

The guy is not a US citizen. He received documents, which he published, although initially he published through newspapers (at  which nobody has been charged).  For a while, there appeared to be a smear charge against Assange that he raped a woman.

Assange is being charged with espionage---he is a spy? 

Imagine this scenario: You receive documents on the Russian government. You publish such documents through Wikipedia. Russia says you violated their espionage security laws.  

Somehow they convince a friendly government (maybe you are traveling through Transnistria to cover the war) to extradite you to Moscow, and you go behind bars. 

You are not a citizen of Russia, but they say you violated their espionage security laws, and you go to jail. 

I was hoping with the Biden Administration maybe some common sense would prevail. 

The Donks want Assange behind bars more than the 'Phants? 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

This is how confusion exists. Chris why I see you're upset about Matt's pro west, and anti Putin rhetoric. The truth is, it is just sincerely felt rhetoric. Matt hasn't been an aggressive proponent of Nato or American direct  involvement in Ukraine. If you really have a beef, you should go after Ben. Not that I'm trying to pair you guys off.

Ben listed as a topic to address:. The runaway DoD and VA budgets. 

Ben, You know a consensus we've had here for years and you've come here and added to, is the vileness of the U.S. Defense budget and war machine. And yet you don't see that your lofty aims of intervention are just going to stoke a locomotive of Defense spending for many years to come?

*****

Ben: And also my apologies with W. I guess i thought we were all over our pride about our anatomies. I known I don't want to be seen in public without my shirt off.. Though I might dive out into the ocean occasionally, and I'd be more accepted in Europe!

Matt; I like Snowden, I was merely commenting on the oppressiveness of his personal reality.

 

Kirk-

It is regrettable that the Ukraine episode will, like 9/11 and the Cold War, goose huge military outlays even more. 

I wish Europe would take the lead to a multi-state humanitarian interdiction in Ukraine. 

Leave it to the globalists to spend unlimited money and lives on counter-productive wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan...and  then tip-toe around Ukraine. 

 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I think Snowden should be forgiven and brought home.

IMHO what has happened to Julian Assange is indefensible. 

The guy is not a US citizen. He received documents, which he published, although initially he published through newspapers (at  which nobody has been charged).  For a while, there appeared to be a smear charge against Assange that he raped a woman.

Assange is being charged with espionage---he is a spy? 

Imagine this scenario: You receive documents on the Russian government. You publish such documents through Wikipedia. Russia says you violated their espionage security laws.  

Somehow they convince a friendly government (maybe you are traveling through Transnistria to cover the war) to extradite you to Moscow, and you go behind bars. 

You are not a citizen of Russia, but they say you violated their espionage security laws, and you go to jail. 

I was hoping with the Biden Administration maybe some common sense would prevail. 

The Donks want Assange behind bars more than the 'Phants? 

 

I think Snowden was well meaning, there was stuff going on as illustrated in the Oliver Stone film that was illegal, and kept from the voter. He should be pardoned. 

You may know a lot more about this than me, were there any parallels between the Chelsea Manning case and Hilary Clinton’s emails in terms of law breaks? Should H have faced any prosecution like others who have broken confidentiality protocols? 

As for Assange, I think America is behaving like a bully or despotic regime on that front, it is a disgrace. My home country is complicit. He is/was a journalist, he published docs that he was handed. He was not in the USA, nor is a US citizen, yet they want to try him under US legislation for betraying laws that apply to US citizens and people in a US jurisdiction. After all of the years and confinement that this has been going on, he’s probably wishing he’d had the polonium 210 or a poisoned tipped umbrella. Its such bad order.
He’s an example; it says “don’t mess with the US security apparatus.” 

[Kirk Gallaway]

36 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Kirk-

It is regrettable that the Ukraine episode will, like 9/11 and the Cold War, goose huge military outlays even more. 

I wish Europe would take the lead to a multi-state humanitarian interdiction in Ukraine. 

Leave it to the globalists to spend unlimited money and lives on counter-productive wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan...and  then tip-toe around Ukraine. 

 

 

Ben: Leave it to the globalists to spend unlimited money and lives on counter-productive wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan...and  then tip-toe around Ukraine. 

That's really a cop out. What you're advocating enables them! I'm not just trying to engage in rhetorical jousting here. You've aggressively staked out the most hawkish position of anyone here, immediately assuming we should perpetuate a no fly zone.

This is for real. This is the biggest crisis in 60 years. It's not unfair to say you're firmly to the right of both Hilary Clinton and Liz Cheney, who have made no such aggressive statements.So from a anti U.S.war machine perspective, you're hardly in a position to criticize Clinton or  Cheney on defense issues.  In fact you're swiftness in advocating that puts you to the right of the entire U.S. Congress! Similarly no one in congress, D or R  is criticizing Biden everyday as being flat footed and ineffectual. About the only ones who would be would be politicians running for President against Biden in an election year. Of course this is a forum and you're not running for Congress. .But you can't have it both ways.

Ben: I wish Europe would take the lead to a multi-state humanitarian interdiction in Ukraine.

But that's another cop out.That's not going to happen.  I wish they had done that years ago, but right now, as you've pointed they've been sort been whistling by the graveyard.

I understand in your cheer leading for escalation, you're keeping us abreast of politicians turning toward your position. Interesting to hear about Dennis Coons joining little Marco about escalation. Maybe you'll eventually get your wish.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Steve Thomas]

By their smell shall ye know them.

Hucksters Profit Off Nutty ‘Venom Theory"

 http://https://www.thedailybeast.com/hucksters-profit-off-nutty-venom-in-the-water-theory?ref=home "

"Last week, far-right conspiracy theory communities went wild for a quasi-documentary produced by fringe online talk show host and former bounty hunter Stew Peters. The video, entitled “Watch the Water” after a QAnon catchphrase, features Peters interviewing retired chiropractor Bryan Ardis about his theory that the CDC planted king cobra venom in Covid-19 vaccines and the water supply in order to transfer Satanic DNA to unsuspecting people."

Some of the more strident among the true believers have taken this to the next level.

They have stopped taking showers.

Steve Tho as

[Kirk Gallaway]

2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

This is how confusion exists. Chris why I see you're upset about Matt's pro west, and anti Putin rhetoric. The truth is, it is just sincerely felt rhetoric. Matt hasn't been an aggressive proponent of Nato or American direct  involvement in Ukraine. If you really have a beef, you should go after Ben. Not that I'm trying to pair you guys off.

This is all I said specifically to you Chris. And i wasn't the least interested in hearing you further explore your petty hostilities with Matt. .If you're really not the least upset, then why is 1/2 of of your response talking about your interaction with Matt? Outside of that. I would say most of your last half was a little closer to relevant, but generally your Smedley Butler thing, which I didn't ask for either.   I was trying to make a point to you, but I sense 90% of your being is just invested in your interaction with other members here.

[Benjamin Cole]

29 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ben: Leave it to the globalists to spend unlimited money and lives on counter-productive wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan...and  then tip-toe around Ukraine. 

That's really a cop out. What you're advocating enables them! I'm not just trying to engage in rhetorical jousting here. You've aggressively staked out the most hawkish position of anyone here, immediately assuming we should perpetuate a no fly zone.

This is for real. This is the biggest crisis in 60 years. It's not unfair to say you're firmly to the right of both Hilary Clinton and Liz Cheney, who have made no such aggressive statements.So from a anti U.S.war machine perspective, you're hardly in a position to criticize Clinton or  Cheney on defense issues.  In fact you're swiftness in advocating that puts you to the right of the entire U.S. Congress! Similarly no one in congress, D or R  is criticizing Biden everyday as being flat footed and ineffectual. About the only ones who would be would be politicians running for President against Biden in an election year. Of course this is a forum and you're not running for Congress. .But you can't have it both ways.

Ben: I wish Europe would take the lead to a multi-state humanitarian interdiction in Ukraine.

But that's another cop out.That's not going to happen.  I wish they had done that years ago, but right now, as you've pointed they've been sort been whistling by the graveyard.

I understand in your cheer leading for escalation, you're keeping us abreast of politicians turning toward your position. Interesting to hear about Dennis Coons joining little Marco about escalation. Maybe you'll eventually get your wish.

Kirk-

IMHO, the old left-wing, right-wing days are dead and gone. Or even the Donk-'Phant days in many regards. Elites are inventing schisms to fog issues. The parties purvey red and blue kool-aid. 

This is for real. This is the biggest crisis in 60 years. It's not unfair to say you're firmly to the right of both Hilary Clinton and Liz Cheney, who have made no such aggressive statements.--Kirk

Yes, I am calling for humanitarian interdiction.

That is not a right-wing position. It would be if I was advocating the imposition of a puppet government and "free markets" on a country that might prefer a hybrid economy or socialism. I do not want to engage in nation building (in this case in terms of infrastructure, yes, but not in terms of nation building). 

The globalist position was to partition Ukraine to Russia. Invite  Putin in and invite Zelensky out. That was the de facto position of both the left- and right-wings of DC, or the Donks and 'Phants. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

This is all I said specifically to you Chris. And i wasn't the least interested in hearing you further explore your petty hostilities with Matt. .If you're really not the least upset, then why is 1/2 of of your response talking about your interaction with Matt? Outside of that. I would say most of your last half was a little closer to relevant, but generally your Smedley Butler thing, which I didn't ask for either.   I was trying to make a point to you, but I sense 90% of your being is just invested in your interaction with other members here.

Just to explain things in the most basic terms. You inferred in your original dialectic that I was “upset” about Matt’s position, which was incorrect. It then required me to correct the false assertion. Pretty simple. 🙂 
 

As for the latter part. It seems like you are taking offence, or that I am grinding your gears. It’s easy enough to hit that ignore button or just not to address me. That’s entirely up to you, but, don’t whine like a little girl or moan like a grumpy old man when you hear things that don’t suit your POV or wishes. Nobody appointed you to decide what is relevant. What makes you think you’d be a good judge? 
 

Perhaps you’re describing yourself when you refer to 90% of your interaction here. It may escape others but, its apparent that you are manipulative, mischievous, and generally like to stir the pot. is there any of that which you’d care to deny? I think it’s fair.
You like the sparring, as do others. In this particular thread, there is a lot of that.