The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Matt Allison]

6 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Fox’s Coverage of Violent Crime Plummets

Fox is not a news channel. It is the propaganda outlet of the foreign-born Rupert Murdoch and is used to push fascist rhetoric.

People that watch/use it are not interested in truth, but in working against the democratic republic of the United States.

[W. Niederhut]

14 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

W-

 

A special counsel has been appointed. So maybe, or maybe not, the facts will come out. 

So far, the federal government has presented no evidence at all that the 1/6 scrum was caused by White House actors. 

 

Ben,

     Don't you ever get tired of posting patent nonsense on this board?

     What did Steve Bannon announce in his January 5th podcast about the impending attack on the Congress?

     Did Rudy Giuliani have foreknowledge of the J6 attack on Congress, based on any conversations that he had with Cassidy Hutchinson?

     Did Trump and Eastman say anything to Mike Pence about the J6 attack?

     Did Roger Stone have any foreknowledge about the J6 attack?

     Why did Tony Ornato, Murray, and Chad Wolf delete their agencies' (SS and DHS) texts and Emails from J5-J6?

     Finally, why did Mike Flynn repeatedly plead the 5th when questioned about J6?

     Any thoughts?

Edited November 19, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

6 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

     Don't you ever get tired of posting patent nonsense on this board?

     What did Steve Bannon announce in his January 5th podcast about the impending attack on the Congress?

     Did Rudy Giuliani have foreknowledge of the J6 attack on Congress, based on any conversations that he had with Cassidy Hutchinson?

     Did Trump and Eastman say anything to Mike Pence about the J6 attack?

     Did Roger Stone have any foreknowledge about the J6 attack?

     Why did Tony Ornato, Murray, and Chad Wolf delete their agencies' (SS and DHS) texts and Emails from J5-J6?

     Finally, why did Mike Flynn repeatedly plead the 5th when questioned about J6?

     Any thoughts?

1. The Secret Service agents (or, more properly, authorities working for the Secret Service itself) deleting texts and e-mails is curious, but we do not know the reason why.

We know that James Murray was the head of the SS when the texts were deleted under his authority, and he was a 24-year veteran. Murray was feted by the Bidens when he left office recently. The SS has been an arm of the Deep State since before 1963. 

It strikes me as unlikely the SS would become beholden to Trump, who was almost universally regarded as unlikeable and impossible to work for.  Trump as Svengali? 

2. Michael Flynn strikes me as a bit nutty. I do not know why he took the fifth. 

3. Roger Stone is a private-sector blowhard. But if he had a role in the 1/6 scrum, I have not seen concrete evidence of it. 

4. Eastman is a private-sector lawyer without any authority over anyone. He had (to my layman's mind) invalid Constitutional theories on how to peacefully and legally gain new elections in certain states, that he promoted.  He is entitled to his views. 

5. I doubt that Giuliani had foreknowledge of the 1/6 scrum. He may have thought there would be robust and legal protests. Even the dozens of FBI plants inside the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys had no foreknowledge of the 1/6 scrum---sheesh, even the Capitol Police had no inkling at all what was to happen. Only Giuliani knew? 

5a. There have been no intercepts of texts, tweets, e-mails, phone-calls geo-locations indicating anyone with foreknowledge of the 1/6 scrum. This despite the federal government retroactively seizing hundreds and possibly thousands of smartphone records (ably assisted by telecom giants). 

6. Bannon is a private-sector blowhard (the very picture of an alcoholic, btw). Was he predicting robust protests? Bannon was not a government employee, had no authority over anybody. Did Bannon privately "egg on" Oath Keepers and Proud Boys? Possibly, I have seen no evidence of that. 

The 1/6 committee investigation is like cotton candy---a gossamer of fantasy, pretty, but when consumed seems to all but disappear.  

So..should we toss Trump in jail now, or should we wait for a public court trial, in which Trump has adequate defense counsel? 

I prefer the presumption of innocence. For all of us.

 

[John Cotter]

23 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

He also had mechanical cockroaches moving about the stage.  Which you can see at about 5:34 in this video.  Kind of cool for 1986, though the video is quite blurry at times.  Which is well worth watching.  Neil kills, shreds, nails it in this.  One of the most intense performances I've ever seen.

 

Neil looks out of his head there, Ron. It reminds me of Van Morrison’s terrific performance of his song Caravan during The Band’s valedictory The Last Waltz concert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44wDwMQVqCc

[Matthew Koch]

10 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

1. The Secret Service agents (or, more properly, authorities working for the Secret Service itself) deleting texts and e-mails is curious, but we do not know the reason why.

We know that James Murray was the head of the SS when the texts were deleted under his authority, and he was a 24-year veteran. Murray was feted by the Bidens when he left office recently. The SS has been an arm of the Deep State since before 1963. 

It strikes me as unlikely the SS would become beholden to Trump, who was almost universally regarded as unlikeable and impossible to work for.  Trump as Svengali? 

2. Michael Flynn strikes me as a bit nutty. I do not know why he took the fifth. 

3. Roger Stone is a private-sector blowhard. But if he had a role in the 1/6 scrum, I have not seen concrete evidence of it. 

4. Eastman is a private-sector lawyer without any authority over anyone. He had (to my layman's mind) invalid Constitutional theories on how to peacefully and legally gain new elections in certain states, that he promoted.  He is entitled to his views. 

5. I doubt that Giuliani had foreknowledge of the 1/6 scrum. He may have thought there would be robust and legal protests. Even the dozens of FBI plants inside the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys had no foreknowledge of the 1/6 scrum---sheesh, even the Capitol Police had no inkling at all what was to happen. Only Giuliani knew? 

5a. There have been no intercepts of texts, tweets, e-mails, phone-calls geo-locations indicating anyone with foreknowledge of the 1/6 scrum. This despite the federal government retroactively seizing hundreds and possibly thousands of smartphone records (ably assisted by telecom giants). 

6. Bannon is a private-sector blowhard (the very picture of an alcoholic, btw). Was he predicting robust protests? Bannon was not a government employee, had no authority over anybody. Did Bannon privately "egg on" Oath Keepers and Proud Boys? Possibly, I have seen no evidence of that. 

The 1/6 committee investigation is like cotton candy---a gossamer of fantasy, pretty, but when consumed seems to all but disappear.  

So..should we toss Trump in jail now, or should we wait for a public court trial, in which Trump has adequate defense counsel? 

I prefer the presumption of innocence. For all of us.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/newsliverpool/tapper-and-bolton-debate-trumps-ability-to-plan-a-coup/vi-AAZvuqJ?category=foryou

 

This is humorous to me as a Researcher of the John F Kennedy Assassination, that after reading how many books on the subject and similar coups and I've never heard of a coup with a pillow man. Like how was anything other than what happened was going to be the result?! Like they just delayed the session and pissed people off enough that they were no longer unsympathetic toward the weirdness in the election and went against what Trump and MAGA supporters were hoping for.. that the electors would be thrown out and alternate electors would vote. 

It seems rather obvious that what the Trump administration and the people advising him were going for:

Congress having the capital surrounded by jeering demonstrators that would look really bad if they didn't throw out the weird F curve electors. Instead of that Iconic moment, we got Mr Buffalo horns and Ray Epps/his glow op QANON federal provatuars leading the charge and  the building and disrupting that from happening... 

 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

6 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Neil looks out of his head there, Ron. It reminds me of Van Morrison’s terrific performance of his song Caravan during The Band’s valedictory The Last Waltz concert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44wDwMQVqCc

Speaking of Van the Man, John, I noticed that the great Irish actor/director, Kenneth Branagh, used Van Morrison's songs for the soundtrack in his recent, autobiographical film, Belfast.  Van's father was an avid collector of R&B records, which is how Van developed such a keen R&B sensibility during his childhood in Ireland.

(Incidentally, my wife and I saw Kenneth Branagh on the stage in London back in 1990, in his own production of Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream, with Emma Thompson.  Unfortunately, I didn't know who Branagh was at the time, but, fortunately, I saved my theatrical brochure.)

[Mark Knight]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

MK

Thanks for the correx.  

But try it yourself. Try googling Willard Hotel meeting cabal Trump Jan 5 Jan 6 Riot Capitol etc.

Ponder this: 

Yes, there was a meeting of some Trump advisers, mostly non-government types, on Jan. 5 at the Willard. 

The NYT story I cite from a year ago has about as much information as any following stories. This story just hits a substantial dead-end. 

No texts, e-mails, intercepted phone calls, transcripts, photo-recon from the meeting. Nothing.

Then, despite literally hundreds and maybe even thousands of rioters or protestors having their smartphone records seized (texts, tweets, conversations, geo-locations) not one was found taking orders from anyone connected to the White House. 

Then, despite having dozens of FBI plants inside the two most organized groups that day (the word "organized" is being used liberally)---the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys---not one FBI plant said, "I received or intercepted a message from the White House or cut-out thereof, directing us to storm the Capitol." 

We live in a panopticon state.

And there is not a scintilla of evidence linking the White House to the Jan. 6 riot. 

A meeting at the Willard Hotel?

And? 

Ponder the considerable amount of evidence mounted against LHO, and the findings of the WC. Even the HSCA. 

You think those versions of events are correct? 

You do realize that the NYT is part of the MSM...right?

I purposely avoided MSM stories in my search, because that seemed to be part of your criteria.

[Benjamin Cole]

Informant Likely to Testify as Defense Witness in Oath Keepers Sedition Trial--NYT

A man who served as No. 2 to Stewart Rhodes, the group’s leader, is said to have secretly reported to the F.B.I. in the months leading up to the Jan. 6 attack.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/08/us/politics/oath-keepers-trial-january-6.html

If there were plans to invade or occupy the Capitol on 1/6...why did the FBI not know? 

They had the No. 2 guy in the Oath Keepers as a plant, or informant, among dozens of others. 

Possibilities: 

1. There were no plans. The 1/6 scrum was more or less spontaneous, although possibly triggered by aggressive Proud Boys and Oath Keepers on that day (and instigators like the copiously video'ed Oath Keeper Ray Epps).

2. The FBI knew about the plans to invade the Capitol, but bureaucratic incompetence got in the way. The old "one hand not knowing the other problem."

3. Elements within FBI had foreknowledge of the pending 1/6 scrum, and wanted the scrum-occupation to happen, to darken the Trump-populist banner. 

Any other options? 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

3 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

You do realize that the NYT is part of the MSM...right?

I purposely avoided MSM stories in my search, because that seemed to be part of your criteria.

Search high and low, by any and all means.

My best guess is there are honest reporters within the NYT trying to tell the truth, but there are layers of wokeness and establishment thickets to get through, and you may find yourself unemployed. 

You can get fired from the NYT for running an op-ed written by a US Senator.

The NYT defined the Wuhan lab leak as a "debunked conspiracy theory." 

I don't what to believe about the NYT on any particular story. I am just an old man with an internet connection. 

[Benjamin Cole]

 

Worth reading, even if you disagree. 

---30---

"Election Denial" for Me, But Not for Thee: YouTube Censors TK-Produced Videos, Again, Despite Factual Accuracy

Matt Orfalea didn't lie, alter clips, or remove key context. He made edits faithful to reality and just got a strike for it. Welcome to post-Trump America, where truth is a censorable offense

Matt Taibbi

 

12 hr ago

539

349

 

 

 

 

In late September videographer Matt Orfalea made a pair of videos for TK. One, Memory Holed: “The Election Was Hacked,” seen above, was a simple montage of Democratic politicians, media officials, and enforcement officials saying the 2016 election was, among other things, “illegitimate,” “rigged,” “hacked,” and a “cyber 9/11.”

The second, Memory Holed, Part II: The “Rigged” Election, was a similar exercise, with one exception: it compared the post-2020 statements of Donald Trump to the post-2016 statements of Democratic partisans. When Trump tells Chris Wallace, “I have to see,” when asked if he’d concede an election, Orfalea shows Hillary Clinton saying, “No, I would not,” when asked in 2017 — after her loss — if she’d contest the results. He shows Trump later saying he’ll of course respect the results, “if I win,” and Hillary Clinton saying Joe Biden should not concede “under any circumstances,” essentially exact analogs.

Matt Orfalea @0rf

BREAKING: I made a vid showing election fraud claims from both Dems & Repubs. In no way did I advance or endorse any of the claims. For documenting this history, YouTube just deleted it, blocked me, & gave me a strike—a step toward deleting my entire channel. @TeamYouTube 🧵/1

 

1:05 AM ∙ Nov 18, 2022

---

401Likes138Retweets

YouTube initially tried to demonetize both videos. After a fuss they reversed the decision about the first. Now they’ve taken a more drastic step, not only deleting the second video but two earlier rough-cut versions that were never even shown to the public but lived on his site. (This is another mad feature of the content moderation era: you can be censored and punished for pre-publication thinking). They also gave Orfalea a strike, leaving him two away from being removed from the site, which would essentially put him out of business.

YouTube’s decision claims the second video “contains claims that past US presidential elections were rigged or stolen, and our election integrity policy prohibits content that advances false claims that widespread fraud, errors, or glitches occurred in US presidential elections.” Moreover, “countervailing views, which we refer to as EDSA context, on those remarks are not provided in the video, audio, title, or description.”

 

 

YouTube’s letter complaining about lack of “EDSA”

We’ll go through this outrageous explanation point-by-point, but first: these videos are factual. There are no statements taken out of context. No editing games were played to make it appear someone is saying something he or she did not. This was the point of the exercise, to show what was actually said, when, and by whom.

As to YouTube’s letter, if indeed their “election integrity policy” prohibits content that advances false claims that “past US presidential elections were rigged or stolen,” then YouTube really should be taking down the first video as well:

This video after all is packed with clips of people like Karine Jean-Pierre saying the 2016 election was “stolen,” Joe Biden saying “I absolutely agree” Trump is an “illegitimate president,” Kamala Harris saying “you’re absolutely right” Trump didn’t really win in 2016, and even Jimmy Carter saying “Trump didn’t actually win the election in 2016.” Old pal Keith Olbermann proclaimed the public wouldn’t stand for this “bloodless coup” called voting, Chris Hayes said Trump “cheated,” and a conga line of officials from Adam Schiff to Elizabeth Warren insisted foreigners had “hacked our elections.”

These videos made what we believe to be a powerful and legitimate point about the framing of the last two presidential elections. The first is that despite Hillary Clinton’s reluctant capitulation on Election Night in 2016, the Democratic Party as a whole as well as key officials in the government never recognized Donald Trump as a legitimate president. Clinton in fact spent four years leading a public relations campaign insisting that a) she actually won in 2016 b) Trump only won because of fraud and actual vote tampering and c) Democrats going forward should not recognize his victory should he win a second time.

Our view is that whether it’s Stop the Steal or Russiagate, denying a president’s legitimacy because you believe a conspiracy theory is the same behavior, and should be treated the same way. YouTube by administering a strike to Orfalea is sending a message that you may leave videos of Hillary Clinton saying “we know that they were into voting rolls” (they being the Russians), or Olbermann warning “It will not be a peaceful change of power!” or the current president and vice-president agreeing their predecessor “didn’t really win,” all without YouTube’s required Surgeon General-type warning called “EDSA” (YouTube’s clunky acronym for “Educational, Documentary, Scientific, or Artistic” context). In other words, you may leave up such statements without pointing out they’re unproven, incorrect, or irresponsible.

This is a de facto endorsement of such behavior when committed by certain people. When others do exactly the same thing, it’s conspiracy theory, incitement, even insurrection.

Donald Trump of course is running for president again. His behavior after the 2020 vote will become exhibit A in the case against his re-election, perhaps even rightly so. But YouTube is signaling early on that it will not permit press outlets to compare his behavior and his statements to those of his political opponents.

This isn’t just about statements from individual has-beens like Hillary Clinton, but official bodies like the DHS and the FBI. Just like Trump, those official organizations have repeatedly engaged in a form of “election denial,” warning that upcoming elections will be packed full of efforts by foreign countries to “amplify doubts about the integrity of U.S. elections” and to “hinder candidates perceived to be particularly adversarial” to countries like China and Russia, by “spreading disinformation.”

These official statements are more or less exactly what Donald Trump is up to when he announces before an election that it’s “rigged.” It’s what he was doing weeks before the vote in 2016, when he said “Of course there’s large-scale voting fraud happening on and before election day,” and it’s what he was doing on Election Day, when he said “The machines, you put down a Republican and it registers as a Democrat, and they’ve had a lot of complaints about that today,” before things turned his way. The idea is to prepare audiences to refuse to accept results of a vote should they go the wrong way.

If you win, it’s “the cleanest election in history.” If you lose, the electorate is already primed to throw a fit. It’s dirty, unpatriotic behavior and it’s now a routine element of all elections, coming from the Trump side and from officialdom.

Worse, it’s the dirtiest kind of pool to have agencies like the FBI or DHS repeatedly leak that “Russia” or “China” prefers Bernie Sanders or Trump, and is either trying to sabotage or already succeeded in sabotaging elections on their behalf. Ask yourself what purpose public leaks of such “assessments” serve. These have a patina of legitimacy because of the organizations involved, but they’re as bereft of evidence as Trump’s Stop the Steal claims and perhaps more corrupt, because they’re so flagrant a misuse of tax dollars.

The press has to be allowed to make these points. If it isn’t, Silicon Valley is encouraging one form of unethical behavior while condemning another. Moreover, it’s punishing the media for factually accurate reporting. There is no explicit or implicit message in Orfalea’s videos that either the 2020 or 2016 vote was compromised. His videos are the opposite of election denial. He’s clearly making the point that no matter who does it, denying election results is irresponsible. If YouTube punishes him for that message, it just sends a message that all of these bad actors are right, and the system really is rigged. We’ve asked politely for a reversal of their decision. YouTube must do the right thing here.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Matt Allison]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Informant Likely to Testify as Defense Witness in Oath Keepers Sedition Trial--NYT

Defense witness. As in, Elmer Rhodes is calling him to the stand as he expects him to be helpful in proving Rhodes' innocence.

It's often difficult to read tea leaves while a trial is ongoing, but I feel confident in saying that if DOJ is unable to convict the defendants in this case, there is almost zero chance Trump will be indicted for anything in relation to 1/6.

I don't know how much intent they're going to be able to prove if it turns out the MAGA "real plan" failed. By "real plan" I'm referring to two things that failed to happen on 1/6:

1. Mike Pence agreeing to stop the count.

2. "Antifa" protesters showing up to rumble with MAGAs, on the assumption that "Antifa" would be angry that the vote count was stopped.

IMO, if that was the "real plan" for 1/6,  then proving premeditation with regard to MAGAs entering the Capitol and going after Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi will be next to impossible, as it would instead seem to have been an audible called the morning/afternoon of 1/6.

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Defense witness. As in, Elmer Rhodes is calling him to the stand as he expects him to be helpful in proving Rhodes' innocence.

It's often difficult to read tea leaves while a trial is ongoing, but I feel confident in saying that if DOJ is unable to convict the defendants in this case, there is almost zero chance Trump will be indicted for anything in relation to 1/6.

I don't know how much intent they're going to be able to prove if it turns out the MAGA "real plan" failed. By "real plan" I'm referring to two things that failed to happen on 1/6:

1. Mike Pence agreeing to stop the count.

2. "Antifa" protesters showing up to rumble with MAGAs, on the assumption that "Antifa" would be angry that the vote count was stopped.

IMO, if that was the "real plan" for 1/6,  then proving premeditation with regard to MAGAs entering the Capitol and going after Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi will be next to impossible, as it would instead seem to have been an audible called the morning/afternoon of 1/6.

Matt-

Your speculation may in fact be true. 

My speculation, that the Capitol Police was so inexplicably heroically incompetent that something seems fishy, may also be true. 

As a layman, I think the DoJ will get convictions on Path Keepers and Proud Boys , from juries selected in the District of Columbia. 

So far, no evidence has been presented anywhere connecting Trump or his inner circle to the 1/6 scrum.

I gather the rump-group of Trumpers was trying implement Eastman's hare-brained constitutional theories, but legally and constitutionally. They failed, as Pence did not go along. They would have failed anyway, likely. 

In the meantime, ponder the imponderables: Oath Keeper Ray Epps, copiously video'ed instigating the invasion of the Capitol, of sound mind and body...has never even been prosecuted. 

The homeless mentally challenged Phoenix gadfly Mr. Buffalo Horns, unaffiliated with anyone, is in prison for four years. 

I am keeping an open mind. But maybe we are getting snowed on this one. 

[John Cotter]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Speaking of Van the Man, John, I noticed that the great Irish actor/director, Kenneth Branagh, used Van Morrison's songs for the soundtrack in his recent, autobiographical film, Belfast.  Van's father was an avid collector of R&B records, which is how Van developed such a keen R&B sensibility during his childhood in Ireland.

(Incidentally, my wife and I saw Kenneth Branagh on the stage in London back in 1990, in his own production of Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream, with Emma Thompson.  Unfortunately, I didn't know who Branagh was at the time, but, fortunately, I saved my theatrical brochure.)

I’m looking forward to seeing that film, William. Strangely enough, I’ve never been to Belfast, the second city of this small island. It must be partition, the “Troubles”, sectarian bigotry and all that exerting an unconscious centrifugal force. I love Van the Man’s early stuff. The sixties and early seventies were such a golden age in music and film, or maybe it’s just my age. Napoleon said, “Tell me what the world was like when the man was twenty and I’ll tell you what the man is like.

[Steve Thomas]

Fans paid to attend World Cup by Qatar have daily allowance cancelled

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/18/fans-paid-to-attend-world-cup-by-qatar-have-daily-allowance-cancelled

“Fans who have travelled to Qatar as part of a controversial paid-for supporters programme have been told by Qatari authorities that their cash has been cut.

The Fan Leader Network is a scheme run by the Supreme Committee for Delivery and Legacy, the Qatari agency responsible for the World Cup. It has recruited supporters from around the globe, offering travel and accommodation and a place at the World Cup opening ceremony in return for enthusiasm and positive social media content. But the Guardian can reveal that a per diem payment for food and drink, upon which some supporters were depending, was cancelled just as fans were packing to travel to the Gulf.

Members of the Fan Leader Network from two European countries said their payments had been cancelled three days ago and that authorities had blamed the decision on the bad press which followed the revelation that fans were being paid.

Fans were told in a message, seen by the Guardian: “Due to the recent developments in the media, we are keen to protect our visiting fans from the erroneous misinformed statements regarding ‘fans receiving payment for the trip’. Accordingly, the daily allowance will unfortunately no longer be issued. The allowance was intended as a small uplift on your own personal funds to assist with refreshments during your stay.”

The news comes two days before the opening ceremony and follows an announcement by Fifa that it would no longer be possible to buy alcohol at World Cup stadiums”

- UNDERSTATEMENT ON -

I don’t think things are going well at the World Cup.

- UNDERSTATEMENT OFF -

Steve Thomas

 

[Steve Thomas]

A lot of people are leaving Twitter and joining Mastadon.

Mastodon is not a single website. To use it, you need to make an account with a provider—we call them servers—that lets you connect with other people across Mastodon.Servers

Mastadon Servers

https://joinmastodon.org/servers

One such server:

home.social

home.social provides a fediverse home to all people who are committed to being excellent to each other.

Steve Thomas