Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[John J. McCarthy]

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/where_the_h...ur_9_11_pr.html

[Ron Ecker]

With a trillion dollars or so of stolen taxpayer loot to play around with, which would certainly buy you any kind of world-class expertise you may need, I think any problems related to successfully wiring those buildings under cover for demolition could be overcome. I know nothing of the details, of course. I would leave that to the experts assigned to the task. They certainly appear to have done the job well.

[Len Colby]

How many reports of workers tampering with the

aluminium cladding (only acessable from the outside, the windows didn't open, the outside of the towers were only accessable from the foofs and lobbies. The outsides of the windows were washed by machine.)

the ceilings or

the walls in the core,

have you turned up?

How many of people cutting the steel? It does matter what technology that used the explosives would had to have been placed against the steel in places where it would not be seen. In normal CD the steel is pre cut (this is different from having to cut holes in walls of the columns in order to hide the explosives) which would leave the building unstable and no building anywhere as big as the towers was ever demolished. Thus to demo the towers a much greater than normal amout of explosives would had to have been used.

Len

[Len Colby]

Ron,

Sorry for not replying sooner, there are only so many hours in a day and I spend too many on forums as it is.

No I have no plans on writing a book, despite your kind words I don’t think I have the requisite knowledge base nor the time to acquire it. I’m just an English teacher/translator/interpreter – art dealer.

The 9/11 Myths site isn’t mine I don’t know if you got that impression, the webmaster there probably could write a book.

Are you any less sure of your interpretation of what happened that day than before?

Len

[Terry Adams]

This is refreshing!!!

Sentence of Reid

Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his

shoe and tried to light it?

Did you know his trial is over?

Did you know he was sentenced?

Did you see/hear any of the judge's comments on TV or Radio?

Didn't think so.

Everyone should hear what the judge had to say.

Ruling by Judge William Young, US District Court.

Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had

anything to say. His response: After admitting his guilt to the court

for the record, Reid also admitted his "allegiance to Osama bin Laden,

to Islam, and to the religion of Allah," defiantly stating, "I think I

will not apologize for my actions," and told the court "I am at war with

your country."

Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below:

January 30, 2003, United States vs. Reid. Judge Young:

"Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court

imposes upon you.

On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in

the custody of the United States Attorney General. On counts 2, 3, 4

and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the

sentence on each count to run consecutively. (That's 80 years.)

On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years

again, to be served consecutively to the 80 years just imposed. The

Court imposes upon you for each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000

that's an aggregate fine of $2 million. The Court accepts the

government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders

restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to

American Airlines .

The Court imposes upon you an $800 special assessment. The Court

imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law

requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need

go no further.

This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is

a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence.

Now, let me explain this to you. We are not afraid of you or any

of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have

been through the fire before. There is too much war talk here and I say

that to every-one with the utmost respect. Here in this court, we deal

with individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals.

As human beings, we reach out for justice.

You are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not

a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference,

to cal l you a soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether the

officers of government do it or your attorney does it, or if you think

you are a soldier. You are not----- you are a terrorist. And we do not

negotiate with terrorists. We do not meet with terrorists. We do not

sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring

them to justice.

So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are a big

fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I've known

warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal that is guilty of

multiple attempted murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper

Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into

custody and you wondered where the press and the TV crews were, and he

said: "You're no big deal."

You are no big deal.

What your able counsel and what the equally able United States

attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how

tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was

it that led you here to this courtroom today?

I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask

you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate

led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing?

And, I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you, but as I search

this entire record, it comes as close to understanding as I know.

It seems to me you hate the one thing that to us is most precious.

You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom

to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not

believe as we individually choose. Here, in this society, the very wind

carries freedom. It carries it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It

is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this

beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see, truly see, that justice

is administered fairly, individually, and discretely. It is for

freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your

behalf, have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you

before other judges.

We Americans are all about freedom. Because we all know that the

way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make

no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bare any burden; pay any

price, to preserve our freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it

well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here.

The day after tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will

long endure.

Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the

American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice,

justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done. The very

President of the United States through his officers will have to come

into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be

judged and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence

democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.

See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of

America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten.

That flag stands for freedom. And it always will.

Mr. Custody Officer. Stand him down.

So, how much of this Judge's comments did we hear on our TV sets? I personally heard almost nothing. I would appreciate any and all comments. This just made me feel that there is still hope.

Terry

[Ron Ecker]

To quote Harry Truman after listening to General McArthur's farewell speech, "I’ve never heard so much bullxxxx in my life."

"We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid."

Then what are things like the Patriot Act, suspension of habeas corpus, and abducting suspects, proven guilty of nothing, to secret U.S. prisons in Europe all about? One would get the impression that America is plenty scared, though of course it’s really just the Bush regime exploiting fear for all its worth.

"And we do not negotiate with terrorists."

That would be news to all the Bush regime criminals left over from the Reagan Iran/Contra era.

"You hate our freedom."

I’m going to puke. I didn’t know that the moronic George W. Bush was moonlighting as a judge.

Please understand, I have no sympathy at all for Mr. Reid. And I'm willing to give the judge some credit. It was a pretty good speech as far as lies and propaganda go.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Ron Ecker

[John Simkin]

To quote Harry Truman after listening to General McArthur's farewell speech, "I’ve never heard so much bullxxxx in my life."

"We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid."

Then what are things like the Patriot Act, suspension of habeas corpus, and abducting suspects, proven guilty of nothing, to secret U.S. prisons in Europe all about? One would get the impression that America is plenty scared, though of course it’s really just the Bush regime exploiting fear for all its worth.

"And we do not negotiate with terrorists."

That would be news to all the Bush regime criminals left over from the Reagan Iran/Contra era.

"You hate our freedom."

I’m going to puke. I didn’t know that the moronic George W. Bush was moonlighting as a judge.

Please understand, I have no sympathy at all for Mr. Reid. And I'm willing to give the judge some credit. It was a pretty good speech as far as lies and propaganda go.

I agree.

(1) It is worth remembering that Reid attempted to make a liquid bomb. Yet it was only this year that we had this clamp down in the UK with not taking liquid in our hand language. As a result of this action, the government became popular in the polls as they were seen as doing something about terrorism. Why did the government not take these precautions when Reid was arrested? Because the scientists told the government it was impossible to make a liquid bomb on a plane.

(2) Latest polls show that 58% of the American public believe Bush misled them about the reasons why Iraq was invaded. This man has blood on his hands and I hope the Republicans will be heavily defeated next month.

[Len Colby]

To quote Harry Truman after listening to General McArthur's farewell speech, "I've never heard so much bullxxxx in my life."

"We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid."

Then what are things like the Patriot Act, suspension of habeas corpus, and abducting suspects, proven guilty of nothing, to secret U.S. prisons in Europe all about? One would get the impression that America is plenty scared, though of course it's really just the Bush regime exploiting fear for all its worth.

"And we do not negotiate with terrorists."

That would be news to all the Bush regime criminals left over from the Reagan Iran/Contra era.

"You hate our freedom."

I'm going to puke. I didn't know that the moronic George W. Bush was moonlighting as a judge.

Please understand, I have no sympathy at all for Mr. Reid. And I'm willing to give the judge some credit. It was a pretty good speech as far as lies and propaganda go.

I agree.

I (mostly) agree too

(1) It is worth remembering that Reid attempted to make a liquid bomb. Yet it was only this year that we had this clamp down in the UK with not taking liquid in our hand language. As a result of this action, the government became popular in the polls as they were seen as doing something about terrorism. Why did the government not take these precautions when Reid was arrested? Because the scientists told the government it was impossible to make a liquid bomb on a plane.

No Reid was accused of trying to detonate plastic (i,e, soild) explosives in his shoe ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/4081741.stm )

(2) Latest polls show that 58% of the American public believe Bush misled them about the reasons why Iraq was invaded. This man has blood on his hands ...

Couldn't agree more

...and I hope the Republicans will be heavily defeated next month.

Unfortunately most reports I've read show that the Democrats will be lucky to win a majority in the House and getting control of the Senate would be a miracle. Nationwide polls look good for the Dems. but when looking on a race by race basis things are so rosy

One interesting development is that the US's only self proclaimed Socialist member of the House is likely to become America's first Socialist senator. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/...D8KMJH7G1.shtml

[John Simkin]

See the following article:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...;articleId=3378

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

gee if it appears in Popular Mechanics it must be true.

[Len Colby]

gee if it appears in Popular Mechanics it must be true.

Who cited Popoular Mechanics?

If you're going to be sarcastic try and make sure you got you facts straight.

PM's 9/11 article and bloig enteries are however more reliable sources of information than any 9/11 revisionist site many of which rival Holocaust revisionist sites as sources of disinformation.

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

You lump all the 9/11

"revisionist sites" together. I have no doubt at all that many of thes sites are full of ridiculous claims. They are deliberately created in order to scramble arguments, and muddy the watter. Len do you agree or disagree with this generalization: Intelligence agencies have deliberately propagated false "conspiracy theories" targeted at a readership already sceptical of an official government narrative--e.g. The Warren Commission-- with the distinct intention of fragmenting an alternative narrative so that said alternative is rendered unable to compeet with Official government Narrative.

[Ron Ecker]

Are you any less sure of your interpretation of what happened that day than before?

No. There's a long list of questions that remain unanswered and will remain so until there is a real investigation, if we live long enough to see one.

Some questions might be answered (but then new ones may also be raised) if and when all the 9/11 Commission documents (on which that fabulous report was based) are released. Those docs are locked away in the national archives for at least 5 years, exempt from FOIA. I'll bet that Sandy Berger couldn't even get in and steal one.

[Len Colby]

You lump all the 9/11 "revisionist sites" together. I have no doubt at all that many of thes sites are full of ridiculous claims. They are deliberately created in order to scramble arguments, and muddy the watter. Len do you agree or disagree with this generalization: Intelligence agencies have deliberately propagated false "conspiracy theories" targeted at a readership already sceptical of an official government narrative--e.g. The Warren Commission-- with the distinct intention of fragmenting an alternative narrative so that said alternative is rendered unable to compeet with Official government Narrative.

No I didn't lump all the revisionist sites together other than to say they were less reliable than PM. AFAIK there was only one error in their article. The only 9/11 sites that aren't total crap are cooperativeresearch, oilempire, fromthewilderness and 911reseach.wtc7 (and Jim Hoffman's other sites), they at least have their facts mostly straight it just their analysis that's off.

No I don't think there is any on going effort by the government to promote ludicrous CTs "with the distinct intention of fragmenting an alternative narrative so that said alternative is rendered unable to compete with Official government Narrative". There is no need because a) in 90% of the cases the CT are nonsense and some of the most ludicrous theories are promoted by members of this forum and though it's tempting to imagine Fetzer and Jack White are agents or unwitting dupes of the CIA or some other intelligence outfit I doubt that's the case. Similarly I doubt Holmgren, vonKliest et. al. are agents either. Provide evidence to support you theory.

I do believe that this nonsense does play into the hands of the neo-cons though because it: 1) distracts from their real misdeeds such as launching a war under false pretenses, awarding no bid contracts to cronies, covering up the effects of global warming, covering up the toxicity of the area around Ground Zero etc. 2)allows slimeballs like Coulter, O'Rielly and Limbaugh to convince middle of the road voters that critics of Bush and the Republicans are lunatics making them less likely to vote Democrat and more likely to vote Republican, and 3) probably alienates some 'leftists' etc. into not voting or voting for 3rd party candidates.

This is a myth. Arab bodies were recovered.

The authorities would like us to believe that either:

1] no family members of the hijackers provided DNA samples

Provide evidence they did. I imagine that their relatives would be less than willing to provide evidence that would implicate them in a heinous crime.

"2] the govt in their infinite wisdom and respect for our sensibilities wouldn't dignify the list with the names of such monsters."

Learn how to read Peter the lists were compiled by CNN and other media outlets. The lists were specifically of VICTIMS thus the terrorists were intentionally not listed. Show me a link to what purports to be an official list of all people on board the flights from a reputable source that doed not include the names of the hijackers. You are confusing two different issues the autopsy reports and the VICTIMS lists compiled and published by various news sources

"The first is strange as some of the 'hijackers' had known associations with intelligence connected persons or were themselves connected to 'friendly' intelligence agencies who would have DNA samples or other identifying information."

Provide evidence to support these claims. Do intelligence operatives, let alone people merely have contact with them, normally give DNA samples? Doubt it. The only way to identify the bodies from the various crash sites was DNA.

"Hitler said, 'the bigger the lie, the more easily the public will accept it.'"

The actual quote was "the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it." And it was Goebbels not Hitler. It unfortunately is quite true, perhaps this explains 16% of the population believing that it is "somewhat likely" or "very likely" that CD was used to bring down the WTC.

[Len Colby]

See the following article:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...;articleId=3378

Interesting article though it didn't back many of it's claims and didn't provide much in the way of evidence that terrorist incidents are intentionally exagerated for political reasons. It could well be true but the author came way short of offering any proof. 9/11, 7/7 the Bali, Bombay, Moroco and Turkish bombings DID take place so I it would be hard to believe that authorities would over react in some cases.

No mention of Reid