H&L - The Harvey Row

[Tony Krome]

Visitors to the Harvey & Lee website are invited to compare the facial features of HARVEY and LEE

The montage of HARVEY and LEE comparison photos is prominent on the Home page http://harveyandlee.net

Visitors can run their mouse over the top of each photo (without clicking) for a description

When they hover over "1954 top and bottom", they will see descriptions of two different Oswalds

1. If the Harvey Row is accurate, I don't see how this Harvey went to Stripling, because he appears in the 1955 Beauregard Yearbook which would be the 54/55 school year

2. If the Harvey Row is inaccurate, then the "1954 top and bottom" Oswalds are the same person, and visitors are being misled

 

 

https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/44569/beauregard-junior-high-school-1955-annual-yearbook

Edited July 29, 2020 by Tony Krome
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[Micah Mileto]

Also the mole under Marguerite's eye. I think Sandy suggested the old Marguerite "impersonator" painted a fake mole under her eye.

[Tony Krome]

Lee Harvey Oswald wore his "3 Amigos" shirt to Beauregard on the day his friend, Ed Voebel was taking photos for the 54/55 yearbook.

The "clown-like" photo was apparently not included in the yearbook.

It appears that Oswald wore the same shirt on the day the individual student photos were taken.

If the above is correct, AND Oswald wore that fancy shirt only ever once to school in anticipation of individual student photos, the Tooth Fairy never came for his front tooth, as can be seen in the individual student yearbook photo.

Lillian Murret stated that Marguerite told her that she picked up her son up at school and took him over to the dentist after Lee "ran his tooth through the lip". Lillian paid the bill. She did not mention a tooth knocked completely out, and certainly if there was major crown replacement dental work, or prosthesis, I doubt very much that Lillian would describe the incident as a tooth through the lip.

A punch that mashed his top lip and chipped or loosened a tooth seems befitting to Lillian's description.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Tony Krome

[Mark Stevens]

Tony, 

The "Harvey & Lee" story claims "Oswald" attended Stripling for only 6-8 weeks in September - November 1954. I can't recall from memory where they claim he went after that, but they could then fit other schools into his timeline since he was only at Stripling for this short time.

Regarding the photos/shirts. I believe you made an astute observation. I believe it's clear both photos were taken on the same day. So either both Oswald's wore the same shirt that day and one took the photo for the other (this whole thing just gets crazier) or there is only one Oswald boy and both photos are of him. Regardless of the photo with the tooth "anomaly," it's clear that in another photo taken the same day he is not missing a tooth. 

[John Butler]

Oswald here looks like he still has that pen top in his mouth and is not missing a tooth.  You know that pen top that is familiar from the other picture taken that day.

Harvey or Lee?  That is the question.

It struck me that the right hand photo of clowning Oswald isn't very clear.  So:

Edited July 29, 2020 by John Butler

[Mark Stevens]

Any explanation for why the missing "tooth" is a different shade than the black around it? Any explanation for why the "gap" of his "missing tooth" extends out over his bottom lip? 

Any explanation for the photos, and how both boys wore the same shirt that day? Any explanation for who sat in for who when taking pictures?

Personally, I think he has something in his mouth. This is evidenced by the fact the "missing tooth gap" is a different shade of black than the other black shadows in his mouth. Additionally, the "gap" is slightly overhanging his bottom lip, you can clearly see it in the last blown up photo.

[Jim Hargrove]

To Tony Krome,

Thanks for the post.  Honest scrutiny of HarveyandLee.net is really appreciated.

I always thought that photo looked more like American-born Lee than Russian-speaking Harvey, but I’m admittedly not good with faces. I’ve sent John A. a link here as well as the content of your post and look forward to his response. 

[Tony Krome]

On 7/30/2020 at 1:42 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

To Tony Krome,

Thanks for the post.  Honest scrutiny of HarveyandLee.net is really appreciated.

I always thought that photo looked more like American-born Lee than Russian-speaking Harvey, but I’m admittedly not good with faces. I’ve sent John A. a link here as well as the content of your post and look forward to his response. 

Since he's heading over, ask him to double check the official OPSB records of Myra DaRouse. I have her as serving three "school years" starting September 1953, which would take her through to the completion of the 55/56 session.

I believe she agreed in her video interview that she had her Home Room in the second year or middle year which would be 54/55

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Tony Krome
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[Sandy Larsen]

17 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Lillian Murret stated that Marguerite told her that she picked up her son up at school and took him over to the dentist after Lee "ran his tooth through the lip". Lillian paid the bill. She did not mention a tooth knocked completely out, and certainly if there was major crown replacement dental work, or prosthesis, I doubt very much that Lillian would describe the incident as a tooth through the lip.

 

Well, I don't know. Getting stitches for a cut through the lip is just as major as getting a crown. And Lillian may have paid only for the stitches and not the crown for all we know. The crown would have been fitted in subsequent visits.

 

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Well, I don't know. Getting stitches for a cut through the lip is just as major as getting a crown. And Lillian may have paid only for the stitches and not the crown for all we know. The crown would have been fitted in subsequent visits.

Before I respond to that, when did Voebel cease his association with Lee Oswald? or, if you don't know for sure, when do you believe Voebel ceased his association with Lee Oswald?

[Sandy Larsen]

6 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Before I respond to that, when did Voebel cease his association with Lee Oswald? or, if you don't know for sure, when do you believe Voebel ceased his association with Lee Oswald?

 

From Armstrong's book:  Lee Oswald and Ed Voebel became acquainted in October1954. They didn't become close friends until June of 1955. (Though at one place in the book it says that Ed began going to Lee's home in the spring of 1955.) It is implied that the two were friends until August 1955.

 

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

From Armstrong's book:  Lee Oswald and Ed Voebel became acquainted in October1954. They didn't become close friends until June of 1955. (Though at one place in the book it says that Ed began going to Lee's home in the spring of 1955.) It is implied that the two were friends until August 1955.

 

Voebel was interviewed on the 27th November 1963, by Sgt Austin & Det Frey. Voebel told them that he knew Oswald for about 1-1/2 years (18 months).

You state that they were friends until August 1955, so if we go back 18 months, Voebel first became acquainted with someone he believed was the same person sometime around February 1954.

Correct?

[Sandy Larsen]

3 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

From Armstrong's book:  Lee Oswald and Ed Voebel became acquainted in October1954. They didn't become close friends until June of 1955. (Though at one place in the book it says that Ed began going to Lee's home in the spring of 1955.) It is implied that the two were friends until August 1955.

Voebel was interviewed on the 27th November 1963, by Sgt Austin & Det Frey. Voebel told them that he knew Oswald for about 1-1/2 years (18 months).

You state that they were friends until August 1955, so if we go back 18 months, Voebel first became acquainted with someone he believed was the same person sometime around February 1954.

Correct?

 

IIRC, Lee Oswald attended Beauregard for three semesters: Spring 1954, Fall 1954, and Spring 1955. Assuming Ed Voebel was also attending those semesters, he could have been aware of Lee as early as January 1954. From then until August 1955 is 19 months. So Ed could have known Lee for up to 19 months.

 

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

IIRC, Lee Oswald attended Beauregard for three semesters: Spring 1954, Fall 1954, and Spring 1955. Assuming Ed Voebel was also attending those semesters, he could have been aware of Lee as early as January 1954. From then until August 1955 is 19 months. So Ed could have known Lee for up to 19 months.

 

Voebel is quite clear in his testimony. He says he did not know who Oswald was prior to him being aquainted;

Mr. VOEBEL. Yes, sir. I don't exactly remember when I first saw him because I might have seen him going to school and back without knowing who it was

He continues the same sentence;

Mr. VOEBEL. but I really became acquainted with him

So, when Voebel told police that he knew Oswald for 1-1/2 years, we take 18 months from August 55, back to somewhere in the early/middle of the 54 Spring Semester.

I believe in the early/middle 54 Spring Semester, Voebel became "acquainted" with Oswald

So between the start of the 54 Spring Semester and up to the point at which Voebel and Oswald became acquainted, Voebel "might have seen him going to school and back without knowing who it was"

Edited July 30, 2020 by Tony Krome

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Here are some instructions for working out which photos of the real-life, historical Lee Harvey Oswald are of the fictional character 'Harvey' and which are of the fictional character 'Lee':

1 - Take a coin; any denomination or currency will do.

2 - Toss the coin.

3 - If it's heads, it's 'Harvey'.

4 - If it's tails, it's 'Lee'.