State of the JFK Document Releases 2021

[Larry Hancock]

Rex Bradford has done an outstanding job of addressing the new releases via the Mary Ferrell Foundation site.  You may find the material, his reviews and

assessments here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_of_JFK_Releases_2021.html

Even if you don't intend to dig into the documents themselves, his commentary on the this releases as compared to the previous ones - as well as the state of the records at NARA is important reading.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Larry Hancock

[Matt Allison]

Great stuff, Larry, thanks. And thank you to Rex Bradford for his continuing work.

[Paul Brancato]

Thank you Larry. What a sorry state of affairs. The Manchester interviews withheld until 2067 - wow. Deed of Gift records, tax records of Ruby’s associates, many others. 

[Matt Allison]

After reading this, I re-read the Pena interview that was finally released in 2017; that really was a bit of a smoking gun, wasn't it? Damn. 

[Larry Hancock]

I've always felt that the Manchester interviews represented a really significant opportunity so that is definitely depressing.  On the other hand the Pena information represents a very real window into Oswald circa New Orleans that does not get nearly the attention it deserves - Weisberg's volume on Oswald in New Orleans is really a blockbuster on that.

[Lawrence Schnapf]

If we could get Congress do hold an oversight hearing, there may be a basis to release the IRS record in the wake of the recent case allowing IRS to release Trump tax returns to congress,

with respect to the Manchester tapes,   the Kennedy family can authorize the release of these tapes. such authorization would render the court order moot. The time has  come for the Kennedy family to step up and recognize its responsibility to history.  The RFK trustee stonewalled the ARRB when it sought the JFK office tape recordings involving Cuban matters from 1963 and other papers that RFK had removed from the oval office the afternoon of the assassination .   

[Kirk Gallaway]

Thanks for all your efforts Larry, It seems like the Kennedy family has always been a thorn in the side of the JFKA research community. This has always perplexed me. Incidentally, Anna Eshoo is my congresswoman.

Hey I'm not trying to be a heretic. If anybody's bored here, with no smoking gun, or a need to strike out in a different direction.

While I was driving I heard this radio interview with Lamar Waldron, a JFKA researcher who many of us are familiar with and I know Jim Di doesn't like because he in the camp that says RFK was part of the coverup as he asserts it was a Mafia hit  and that ultimately RFK felt responsible for his brother's death.. The first thing all of us think of is how could there be such a massive government coverup if the Mafia killed JFK?  Waldron's answer is that CIA feared Mafia would expose their ties to them, RFK and Operation Mongoose  and  that that was plenty. 

To summarize, He cites RFK aide Robert Nolan, whose also in Manchester's book,  as telling him that Bobby was part of the coverup and to those not familiar, there was to be an invasion of Cuba on Dec 1st, 1963 with the full knowledge of the Kennedys, Cyrus Vance, and Alexander Haig.  The third in command, and founder and head of Castro's Cuban army. Juan Almeida (sp?) had approached the U.S. about overthrowing Castro. The plan was thwarted by JFK'S death and much later Waldron said he got an admission of the plot to overthrow Castro by no less than Dean Rusk.

There's a lot here about hard core anti Castro Bay of Pigs hero, Harry Williams (starts at 30.00) befriended by Bobby in the negotiation for release of BOP prisoners, who told Bobby Hoffa wanted to kill him, and later who was initially approached by Almeida,, and the threatening of his life by a Mafia representative who wants the continued Mafia presence in Cuba after the overthrow of Castro  in no less than Bobby's apartment! Obviously it sounds way too fantastic, and Waldron's having a lot of fun telling it!

This whole thing is 2 hours long, but you can get a pretty good summary  in the last 25 minutes or so. This is from Thom Hartmann's nationally syndicated radio show,who I'm sure many are familiar with. Hartmann was Waldron's main assistant and co author in his numerous previous works on the JFKA. 

 

 

[Ty Carpenter]

3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Thanks for all your efforts Larry, It seems like the Kennedy family has always been a thorn in the side of the JFKA research community. This has always perplexed me. Incidentally, Anna Eshoo is my congresswoman.

Hey I'm not trying to be a heretic. If anybody's bored here, with no smoking gun, or a need to strike out in a different direction.

While I was driving I heard this radio interview with Lamar Waldron, a JFKA researcher who many of us are familiar with and I know Jim Di doesn't like because he in the camp that says RFK was part of the coverup as he asserts it was a Mafia hit  and that ultimately RFK felt responsible for his brother's death.. The first thing all of us think of is how could there be such a massive government coverup if the Mafia killed JFK?  Waldron's answer is that CIA feared Mafia would expose their ties to them, RFK and Operation Mongoose  and  that that was plenty. 

To summarize, He cites RFK aide Robert Nolan, whose also in Manchester's book,  as telling him that Bobby was part of the coverup and to those not familiar, there was to be an invasion of Cuba on Dec 1st, 1963 with the full knowledge of the Kennedys, Cyrus Vance, and Alexander Haig.  The third in command, and founder and head of Castro's Cuban army. Juan Almeida (sp?) had approached the U.S. about overthrowing Castro. The plan was thwarted by JFK'S death and much later Waldron said he got an admission of the plot to overthrow Castro by no less than Dean Rusk.

There's a lot here about hard core anti Castro Bay of Pigs hero, Harry Williams (starts at 30.00) befriended by Bobby in the negotiation for release of BOP prisoners, who told Bobby Hoffa wanted to kill him, and later who was initially approached by Almeida,, and the threatening of his life by a Mafia representative who wants the continued Mafia presence in Cuba after the overthrow of Castro  in no less than Bobby's apartment! Obviously it sounds way too fantastic, and Waldron's having a lot of fun telling it!

This whole thing is 2 hours long, but you can get a pretty good summary  in the last 25 minutes or so. This is from Thom Hartmann's nationally syndicated radio show,who I'm sure many are familiar with. Hartmann was Waldron's main assistant and co author in his numerous previous works on the JFKA. 

 

 

Kirk,

Great post here. It makes one think, had LHO been killed before being arrested would these possible invasion plans still have taken place? I believe if the Cuban invasion scenario posited above were true, it would fit some theories nicely. If Oswald was killed before being apprehended, the conspirators could easily link Oswald to Cuba or at least communist sympathizers as it appears they were laying the groundwork for leading up to the assassination. Voila, Cuban invasion complete and totally justified, no more Commie threat next door. The arrest of a live Oswald and the fallout from that forcing the conspirators to enact contingency plans certainly would have ruined the conspirators plans. 

If Oswald was killed before being apprehended, would we even be here talking about the JFKA today? I think we would be looking back on the JFKA as the event that ignited WW3 similarly to the way the Ferdinand assassination is looked at as the catalyst for WW1.

[Larry Hancock]

Kirk,  there are problem a number of people who have not followed the dialog about Lamar's theory over the years, his book and scenario was based on his understanding of AMWORLD.  Actually he and I were both working on AMWORLD before he released his book and talked a good bit before and after its release.  Unfortunately his early perspective of the material was simply incorrect and given additional records and a great bit more research I think its possible to unequivocally state that there was no such invasion in the works - in fact it would be counter to just about everything we know was going on at the time, including the start of JFK's negotiations with Castro (which both parties were very serious about) which would have gotten underway in December.

You would have to dig into AMTRUNK and AMWHIP and into AMWORLD in detail to see how I can support that statement, as well as the new Commandos Mambises effort that did get underway in the fall, to fully appreciate the story and the chaos of the period.  It is true that JFK had directed the military to take over covert operations against Cuba and to develop a worst case contingency plan for accelerated military pressure (we have lots of documentation on that JCS activity) but that effort was only in the planning stages with no effort at all to begin staging military assets for any large scale action in January.

Its one of those scenarios that just did not survive the research in later years,  but both Jim D and I have looked at it repeatedly and with our much deeper knowledge of what was going on in regard to Cuba it simply does not match the invasion scenario in Lamar's book.

[Ty Carpenter]

17 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Rex Bradford has done an outstanding job of addressing the new releases via the Mary Ferrell Foundation site.  You may find the material, his reviews and

assessments here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_of_JFK_Releases_2021.html

Even if you don't intend to dig into the documents themselves, his commentary on the this releases as compared to the previous ones - as well as the state of the records at NARA is important reading.

Larry,

The link you provided takes us to an update as of March 2021. The link below will take folks to the current December update:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/2021_Document_Releases.html

[Larry Hancock]

Thanks Ty,  I wanted to make sure everyone got the background on the comparison between the two sets of releases so I started further up the thread....as you say, that link takes you direct to the current release update.  I just wish there was more there to see.

[Kirk Gallaway]

4 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Kirk,  there are problem a number of people who have not followed the dialog about Lamar's theory over the years, his book and scenario was based on his understanding of AMWORLD.  Actually he and I were both working on AMWORLD before he released his book and talked a good bit before and after its release.  Unfortunately his early perspective of the material was simply incorrect and given additional records and a great bit more research I think its possible to unequivocally state that there was no such invasion in the works - in fact it would be counter to just about everything we know was going on at the time, including the start of JFK's negotiations with Castro (which both parties were very serious about) which would have gotten underway in December.

You would have to dig into AMTRUNK and AMWHIP and into AMWORLD in detail to see how I can support that statement, as well as the new Commandos Mambises effort that did get underway in the fall, to fully appreciate the story and the chaos of the period.  It is true that JFK had directed the military to take over covert operations against Cuba and to develop a worst case contingency plan for accelerated military pressure (we have lots of documentation on that JCS activity) but that effort was only in the planning stages with no effort at all to begin staging military assets for any large scale action in January.

Its one of those scenarios that just did not survive the research in later years,  but both Jim D and I have looked at it repeatedly and with our much deeper knowledge of what was going on in regard to Cuba it simply does not match the invasion scenario in Lamar's book.

Yes Larry , I tend to think that. But re Mongoose: It is interesting in that I do believe Waldron says he initially believed that Operation Mongoose was found out and discarded by JFK in June 62, like most researchers here. But his eventual contacts with Nolan ,Williams and Rusk(though with him that's not clear) dissuaded him from that notion.

Obviously since the same sources are used, we are led to conclude that either Williams and Nolan collaborated on a deception or Waldron isn't being truthful. Waldron says the reason for Nolan eventually spilling the beans was probably that he found out in the Assassination hearings that he was potential collateral damage in a Castro assassination plot that was to be carried out when Nolan and Castro were skin diving together.

Yet more fantastic stuff!

Edited December 28, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Larry Hancock]

I think its pretty clear now that JFK did not know that an assassination program had been reactivated under Mongoose and certainly not that Helms allowed it to proceed well into 1963.   On the other hand certainly some of the programs such as AMWORLD and AMTRUNK did allow talk and planning to continue in regard to Cuban only assassination efforts and its hard to think RFK was not aware of that - but it was not the same type of CIA driven/asset based approach as in the earlier projects and not directly funded as the first poison efforts were.

It really easy to come up with a number of different plots, much talk and many proposals about assassinating Castro - but as far as the administration was concerned by the summer of 1963 that was something the Cubans were going to have to do with a coup or some sort of internal effort - hence AMTRUNK and AMLASH.  Its probably most relevant that by November Castro was warning JFK directly and publicly about assassination efforts against himself but more specifically that the anti-Castro exiles might turn on JFK himself.

 

[Greg Doudna]

Larry, Waldron has the idea that the Mob piggybacked on a plan to overthrow Castro and essentially blackmailed RFK and the US government into not punishing them (Mob) for the Mob's free-lance decision on their own to kill a president. (And none of the CIA, Hoover, LBJ, entire US government etc. victimized by the Mob ever told that they were being blackmailed.) That does not seem to make sense. The fact is JFK was killed and nobody was held responsible for it or punished who actually did it. Would an inversion of Waldron's construction not make better sense that the Mob was signaled approval by some within the government to go ahead with an assassination, and then CIA piggybacked on that Mob action to attempt to blame Castro, proceed with regime change in Cuba, etc.? It is just obvious neither Hoover (FBI) nor the Warren Commission were touching anything investigative in the JFK assassination that pointed to the Mob, even in the most blatantly obvious case of Jack Ruby. The reason would not be because the Mob was blackmailing the US government but because it went higher than the Mob, and all it would take would be for the wrong person to flip. HSCA under Blakey did try to go after Mob leads, with the sensational deaths of Roselli and Giancana in the context of those HSCA inquiries suggesting something might be there, but Blakey was such a trusting team player with the CIA that he did not go after who was behind the Mob (Blakey later said he had been rolled by the CIA).

I believe the continuing core coverup of the truth of the JFK assassination is not because any living person today is being seriously protected, but because it is just too horrible on an existential level to open up this recent of a major skeleton in America's closet--that there was a high-level approved violent regime change in America that was an inside job. The craziness plaguing conspiracy theorizing and the ongoing recurring attempts to blame Castro, or introduce new foreign scapegoats, can be seen in a context of a national security mindset that believes it is a matter of national security, and necessary for the effective conduct of international relations, that the US not allow some dirty laundry in its history to be aired. The most simple and open historical truth that the US's economic greatness was founded and built on slavery is passionately denounced and condemned from being voiced or taught in schools though that is partisan coming from conservatives, whereas the formal mainstream denial that the JFK assassination looks like an inside job is bipartisan, despite significant numbers of the educated and elite in America individually suspecting exactly that to have been the case. (Though the two examples differ also in the facts of slavery being largely known and uncontroversial to historians whereas the solution and facts of the JFK assassination remain unclear.)  

Edited December 29, 2021 by Greg Doudna

[Larry Hancock]

Greg, I wouldn't want to get involved in a more detailed discussion of Lamar's work and scenario other than in respect to what I can comment on directly in our shared AMWOLD research; I was reasonably close to him when he was completing his book, when he was launching it, and when he had hopes of it becoming a major movie - but as I've said before, I don't review or critique others research. Others have exploredl key elements of his work, which beyond AMWORLD and a particular Castro regime figure, is fundamentally based in a series of Marcello tape recordings made while Marcello was in prison and that those reviews can easily be found in online searches.

As for myself, my view of the conspiracy in terms of motives, personnel, timing and operations evolved though more than one book and ultimately appeared in Tipping Point.  My view of the damage control and cover up and its motivations is covered in detail in SWHT 2010.

But my impression is that my conspiracy scenario, and view of what I see as actually multiple levels of cover up, are basically too simple and straight forward to meet the expectations of many who suspect a far deeper, and grander conspiracy - which is fine, each to his own.  I'm always happy to discuss the details in Tipping Point or SWHT but I will have to cheerfully leave the dialog on deeper, much farther reaching conspiracies to others.