The Zfilm, The copies and The Geraldo

[John Butler]

3 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Oh really? Where did he plan on viewing this "record of it" ? On the in-house movie projector while craning his neck from his cell in a Texas prison?

My best guess is Jack Ruby didn't know he was going to murder Oswald.  That came after the assassination on orders from others.

[Chris Davidson]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:45 PM, Chris Davidson said:

First show the impossible actions of human beings in the following link.

Next, show how two films reveal the timing/syncing problem associated with those actions below.

 

Yes, the odd film out is Z.

Jackie backwards using Bell and Jackie forward using Z.

Stabilizing Clint allows a look at the upper sprocket hole stationary "bounce" past the light pole.

Looking at the way Clint's right knee crosses over the spare tire housing and he falls on his ass, are you sure Jackie wasn't the one pulling Clint into the limo?

All this in less than a second.

Simply amazing!!!

[John Butler]

3 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Yes, the odd film out is Z.

Jackie backwards using Bell and Jackie forward using Z.

Stabilizing Clint allows a look at the upper sprocket hole stationary "bounce" past the light pole.

Looking at the way Clint's right knee crosses over the spare tire housing and he falls on his ass, are you sure Jackie wasn't the one pulling Clint into the limo?

All this in less than a second.

Simply amazing!!!

Bravo!

And, for those who don't understand such things:

EXCLAMATION

1. used to express approval when a performer or other person has done something well.

   "people kept on clapping and shouting “bravo!”"

   synonyms:

   well done · good for you · congratulations · take a bow · encore

[John Butler]

Chris mentions time in his presentation with the comment "All this in less than a second.  Simply amazing."

Here's another bit of action that consists of 10 frames set at .25 seconds per frame for easier viewing.  In Zapruder this same action takes about 1/2 of a second at 18 frames per second.  Amazing speed.

Rosemary seems to be running about 5 or 6 steps in a 1/2 second or so time period.  Can a person do that?

I slowed this down so that one can see the action of the Z film in 1/2 second.

Simply Amazing.

OBTW, if this is Jean Hill as she described where she was at in Hill Exhibit No. 5 then she is the lady with grey hair and a hat.  

She attracted the President's attention by waving and shouting "Hey, Mr. President".  She shouted so loud that Vickie Adams on the 4th floor of the TSBD heard her.  Mary is the short, red head near Jean and she was in the street.

This is a better representation of Jean and Mary's testimony than what is shown in Zapruder beginning at Z 287 and running on until about Z 317.  In that part of the film Mary and Jean are as nearly lifeless as the Mannikin Row folks.

 

 

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

John Butler writes:

Quote

Betty Oliver said she was the "Babushka Lady" in Dealey Plaza photographing the Kennedy assassination.

Who was Betty Oliver?

Quote

I don't believe there was a "Babushka Lady" in Dealey Plaza until after the assassination and the p. limo had left the area.

Why? There are several home movies and photographs that show a woman in a headscarf standing near the Brehm family during the assassination. What reason does John have for believing that the woman wasn't there?

Quote

At this point, let me say that I have looked at the media of Dealey Plaza and found 13 or so Babushka Ladies.  That is women wearing a head scarf.  Some were on Elm Street such as the women in the Mannikin Row area.  None were in the grassy field south of Elm Street according to the Zapruder Film, the Holy Grail of the assassination.  If the Babushka Lady was in the grassy field south of Elm then the Zapruder film lied.  However, there are films and photos that show the Babushka Lady was indeed in the grassy area south of Elm Street.  I believe they are false. 

Can anyone make sense of that paragraph? 

John seems to be saying that he has found images of 13 women in Dealey Plaza wearing headscarves (OK so far!), and that none of them were in the grassy area south of Elm Street (oh dear!), but several films and photos show one of them standing in the grassy area south of Elm Street (yup!), which means that all of those films and photos have been faked (oh dear!).

Is that really what he means? If so, it's preposterous. If not, what does he actually mean?

The Beverly Oliver* question is very simple, and has nothing to do with faked photos or faked home movies or whatever else John thinks the lizard people got up to.

Beverly Oliver claimed to have been the woman in the headscarf who appears to be holding a camera, standing near the Brehm family. Most people don't believe her, because in 1963 she was 17 years old and slim, whereas the woman in the headscarf is clearly not slim and looks to be a good deal older than 17.

What happened to John's notion that the white car in Zapruder frames 157 and 160 is back to front and that the same car in Altgens 6 is "badly distorted"? I asked John to clarify this, but instead he has moved onto a new, even more ridiculous claim.

Could John please explain why he thinks that the car is "badly distorted" and back to front? If he's correct, this would be very strong evidence that the Zapruder film and the Altgens 6 photo have been altered. If he's mistaken, it would of course be very strong evidence that he is living in a fantasy world.

Why is the car "badly distorted" and back to front?

--

* Maybe Betty Oliver was Beverly's more sturdily built doppelganger. Why didn't John think of that?

[Pat Speer]

14 hours ago, John Butler said:

Chris mentions time in his presentation with the comment "All this in less than a second.  Simply amazing."

Here's another bit of action that consists of 10 frames set at .25 seconds per frame for easier viewing.  In Zapruder this same action takes about 1/2 of a second at 18 frames per second.  Amazing speed.

Rosemary seems to be running about 5 or 6 steps in a 1/2 second or so time period.  Can a person do that?

I slowed this down so that one can see the action of the Z film in 1/2 second.

Simply Amazing.

OBTW, if this is Jean Hill as she described where she was at in Hill Exhibit No. 5 then she is the lady with grey hair and a hat.  

She attracted the President's attention by waving and shouting "Hey, Mr. President".  She shouted so loud that Vickie Adams on the 4th floor of the TSBD heard her.  Mary is the short, red head near Jean and she was in the street.

This is a better representation of Jean and Mary's testimony than what is shown in Zapruder beginning at Z 287 and running on until about Z 317.  In that part of the film Mary and Jean are as nearly lifeless as the Mannikin Row folks.

 

 

This is wrong on all counts. A girl Rosemary's age could run 8 mph or more for a short sprint. That's roughly 12 ft per second. That is what is shown in the film. And no, Mary Moorman and Jean Hill are not in this footage. As demonstrated repeatedly, the Hill exhibit has Moorman and Hill roughly halfway to the underpass across from some steps, very close to where they are shown in the films, and nowhere near where you continue to pretend they were standing.  

[John Butler]

9 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

John Butler writes:

Who was Betty Oliver?

Why? There are several home movies and photographs that show a woman in a headscarf standing near the Brehm family during the assassination. What reason does John have for believing that the woman wasn't there?

 

 

The Beverly Oliver* question is very simple, and has nothing to do with faked photos or faked home movies or whatever else John thinks the lizard people got up to.

Beverly Oliver claimed to have been the woman in the headscarf who appears to be holding a camera, standing near the Brehm family. Most people don't believe her, because in 1963 she was 17 years old and slim, whereas the woman in the headscarf is clearly not slim and looks to be a good deal older than 17.

What happened to John's notion that the white car in Zapruder frames 157 and 160 is back to front and that the same car in Altgens 6 is "badly distorted"? I asked John to clarify this, but instead he has moved onto a new, even more ridiculous claim.

Could John please explain why he thinks that the car is "badly distorted" and back to front? If he's correct, this would be very strong evidence that the Zapruder film and the Altgens 6 photo have been altered. If he's mistaken, it would of course be very strong evidence that he is living in a fantasy world.

Why is the car "badly distorted" and back to front?

--

* Maybe Betty Oliver was Beverly's more sturdily built doppelganger. Why didn't John think of that?

Jeremy,

You need to go back and re-read what I said.  You got most of it wrong.  For instance as an example:

My pick for the "Babushka Lady" is not Betty Oliver, but the lady known as Tammi True.  I can look up her real name if you want.  She is the person I think is the Lady in Blue in the Zapruder Film.  If I was a rich guy I would offer you lots of money if you can find the "Babushka Lady" in the Zapruder Film standing next to Charles Brehm and son.

Man, this is just plain bad:

"Can anyone make sense of that paragraph? 

John seems to be saying that he has found images of 13 women in Dealey Plaza wearing headscarves (OK so far!), and that none of them were in the grassy area south of Elm Street (oh dear!), but several films and photos show one of them standing in the grassy area south of Elm Street (yup!), which means that all of those films and photos have been faked (oh dear!).

Is that really what he means? If so, it's preposterous. If not, what does he actually mean?"

What I mean is the Zapruder Film, which I believe is your gold standard on what happened in Dealey Plaza, does not show the BB Lady while other films do show her.  Do you have an explanation for that?

There are 13 or so women with head scarfs in Dealey Plaza.  I would have to go back and check my work if 14.  None are in Dealey Plaza in the grassy area between Elm and Main except one shown in various films except the Zapruder film.  The Lady who many people identify as the BB Lady does not show up in Dealey Plaza until after the assassination is over.  I can show you who this woman is if you are interested.  I can track her movement through various films and photos from the NE corner of Main and Houston to the grassy field between Elm and Main after the assassination.

I said that Betty Oliver has problems with her story. 

"but several films and photos show one of them standing in the grassy area south of Elm Street (yup!), which means that all of those films and photos have been faked (oh dear!)."

Take your pick.  Either the Zapruder Film is wrong or the other films are wrong.  Which will you pick? 

  

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by John Butler

[John Butler]

25 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

A girl Rosemary's age could run 8 mph or more for a short sprint. That's roughly 12 ft per second.

I didn't say anything about how far she could run in a 1/2 second.  I said she took 5 or 6 steps in that time, 1/2 second.  If her stride was say 30 inches then she could have covered 180 inches in her 5 or 6 steps.  That would be about 15 feet in 1/2 second.

I am still asking the question could she have made that many steps in 1/2 second?

25 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

And no, Mary Moorman and Jean Hill are not in this footage. As demonstrated repeatedly

That's what everyone says except Jean Hill.  I am not saying that, Jean Hill is.  And, no folks have not proven she was wrong in her location that Arlen Specter took down in Hill Exhibit No. 5.  He was so serious about the matter that he made the Hill Exhibit Top Secret.  Obviously, he thought the matter was quite important.  Do you understand what the classification Top Secret is and what it is used for?  It is use to keep something secret and hidden from the general public.

Vickie Adams said she heard someone call out to the President.  She was on the fourth floor of the TSBD.  Would she have been able to hear that if Jean Hill was down in front of the Grassy Knoll rather than across the street on the SW corner of Elm and Houston. Part of Vickie Adams testimony was also declared Top Secret.  I think that part was about Shelley and his henchman.

I would recommend re-reading Jean Hill's testimonies with an unprejudiced mind set.  The first statements are the most important.  Overlook, what she recanted and said in later years.  She underwent a hatchet job for the things she said directly after the assassination.  Her character was blackened.  She felt she was going to be killed for the things she said.  SAC Gordon Shanklin of the FBI assigned agents to monitor and guard her.  It's in her book.     

This was testimony that was fresh in her mind at the time of the meeting with Arlen Specter.  Their relationship during the interview was adversarial and she fought to get her information out in the manner she thought correct.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by John Butler

[Pat Speer]

7 minutes ago, John Butler said:

I didn't say anything about how far she could run in a 1/2 second.  I said she took 5 or 6 steps in that time, 1/2 second.  If her stride was say 30 inches then she could have covered 180 inches in her 5 or 6 steps.  That would be about 15 feet in 1/2 second.

I am still asking the question could she have made that many steps in 1/2 second?

That's what everyone says except Jean Hill.  I am not saying that, Jean Hill is.  And, no folks have not proven she was wrong in her location that Arlen Specter took down in Hill Exhibit No. 5.  He was so serious about the matter that he made the Hill Exhibit Top Secret.  Obviously, he thought the matter was quite important.  Do you understand what the classification Top Secret is and what it is used for?  It is use to keep something secret and hidden from the general public.

Vickie Adams said she heard someone call out to the President.  She was on the fourth floor of the TSBD.  Would she have been able to hear that if Jean Hill was down in front of the Grassy Knoll rather than across the street on the SW corner of Elm and Houston. Part of Vickie Adams testimony was also declared Top Secret.  I think that part was about Shelley and his henchman.

I would recommend re-reading Jean Hill's testimonies with an unprejudiced mind set.  The first statements are the most important.  Overlook, what she recanted and said in later years.  She underwent a hatchet job for the things she said directly after the assassination.  Her character was blackened.  She felt she was going to be killed for the things she said.  SAC Gordon Shanklin of the FBI assigned agents to monitor and guard her.  It's in her book.     

This was testimony that was fresh in her mind at the time of the meeting with Arlen Specter.  Their relationship during the interview was adversarial and she fought to get her information out in the manner she thought correct.

 

 

You have it all scrambled, of course.

1. 5 or 6 steps per half second would be two steps for every three frames. Does Willis do that? Of course not. You make ridiculous claims based on nonsense. 

2. Jean Hill never said what you keep pretending she said. She marked her location on a hastily-drawn map. This location was almost halfway to the underpass and across from some steps--pretty much where she is shown in the films but nowhere near where you keep pretending she said she was standing.

3. It was Mary Woodward and her crowd who yelled out to Kennedy. If you actually read the statements and testimony you would know this.

4. Jean Hill's statements got less reliable over time, not because she recanted anything, but because she added in a bunch of crap to please the conspiracy crowd.

5. The same goes for Beverly Oliver. It's Beverly Oliver, not Betty. Beverly.  

[Chris Davidson]

20 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Yes, the odd film out is Z.

Jackie backwards using Bell and Jackie forward using Z.

Stabilizing Clint allows a look at the upper sprocket hole stationary "bounce" past the light pole.

Looking at the way Clint's right knee crosses over the spare tire housing and he falls on his ass, are you sure Jackie wasn't the one pulling Clint into the limo?

All this in less than a second.

Simply amazing!!!

It would be a good reason why Meyers didn't include this part of the Bell section in his multi-sync project and why Nix was cut at that point in time.

The red "X" representing approx where the Bell early frames would sync on the timeline, counting backwards from the underpass shadow sync point between Bell/Z.

 

 

 

 

[John Butler]

50 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

The same goes for Beverly Oliver. It's Beverly Oliver, not Betty. Beverly.

Sorry,

About Beverly Oliver being Betty Oliver.  I seem to make that mistake all the time when I don't review her material.  And, even when I do as in this case. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. JEAN LOLLIS HILL

 

The testimony of Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill was taken at 2:30 p.m., on March 24,

1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and

Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the

President’s Commission.

….

“Mrs. Hill. Well, as they came toward us, we had been taking pictures with

this Polaroid camera and since it was a Polaroid we knew we had only one

chance to get a picture, and at the time she had taken a picture just a few

minutes before and I had grabbed it out of the camera and wrapped it and put

it in my pocket. Just about that time he drew even with us.

 

Mr. Specter. And when you say “he” you mean?

 

Mrs. Hill. The President’s car. We were standing on the curb and I jumped

to the edge of the street and yelled, “Hey, we want to take your picture,” to

him and he was looking down in the seat — he and Mrs. Kennedy and their heads

were turned toward the middle of the car looking down at something in the

seat, which later turned out to be the roses, and I was so afraid he was going

to look the other way because there were a lot of people across the street and

 

 

206

 

 

we were, as far as I know, we were the only people down there in that area,

and just as I yelled, “Hey,” to him, he started to brim? his head up to look at

me and just as he did the shot rang out. Mary took the picture and fell on the

ground and of course there were more shots.”

JB: I wasn’t aware of Mary Woodward and her group shouting at the President for his attention.  I believe they said they were clapping and cheering.  As best as I can make out these folks were part of Mannikin Row near the second street light and Stemmons sign.  The motorcade made a lot of noise and there was crowd noise.  I don't believe Vickie Adams could have heard Woodward and group if they called out "Hey Mr. President",    And, she surely would not have heard Jean Hill call out to the president near the Grassy Knoll.  Also, your gold standard, the Zapruder Film does not show this.  Jean in the film justs turns her head with no shouting or arm waving.

Jean also said she was across the street with a lot of people there.  This in no way describes the Grassy Knoll area.  She said we were the only people down in that area on the grass.  What she meant was she was off the cement of the SW corner of Houston and Elm.  They had asked a policemen if they could do that.

In the Zapruder film there are only about 3 people across the street on the steps leading down from the parking lot of the railroad yards.  There is no large crowd there.  There was no large crowd in front of Mary and Jean as shown in the Zapruder Film, if you believe that film.

Call her a xxxx  or simply confused if you want, but that is her testimony. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

19 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

It would be a good reason why Meyers didn't include this part of the Bell section in his multi-sync project and why Nix was cut at that point in time.

The red "X" representing approx where the Bell early frames would sync on the timeline, counting backwards from the underpass shadow sync point between Bell/Z.

 

 

 

 

In fact, if you look at Myer's start time for Wiegman at extant Z246 compared to Mark Tyler's at extant Z280, which is an approx 34 frame difference, then add that frame difference starting where Nix gets cut at extant Z411, you would wind up near extant Z447(Wiegman/Z sync) where it appears Jackie is still laid out in Wiegman(John Butler frame) which follows suit with what we see in early Bell at extant Z435, using the underpass shadow sync point(counting backwards gif) between Bell/Z.

If you are so inclined to count backwards from the underpass shadow sync point, take note of how many frames that span is.

Or, you can bypass all that by realizing that Myer's camera frame rate for Towner's film at 22.8 was pure BS and using a more credible 18.3fps rate for Towners camera and an extant Z sync, the difference for the Towner filming span would equate to 1.8 seconds = 33 zframes at 18.3fps

It's like following bouncing frames.

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

Jean Hill's statements got less reliable over time, not because she recanted anything, but because she added in a bunch of crap to please the conspiracy crowd.

This is the one thing I can agree with you on and I would add the official story crowd.

[John Butler]

7 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

In fact, if you look at Myer's start time for Wiegman at extant Z246 compared to Mark Tyler's at extant Z280, which is an approx 34 frame difference, then add that frame difference starting where Nix gets cut at extant Z411, you would wind up near extant Z447(Wiegman/Z sync) where it appears Jackie is still laid out in Wiegman(John Butler frame) which follows suit with what we see in early Bell at extant Z435, using the underpass shadow sync point(counting backwards gif) between Bell/Z.

My question is how long was Jackie on the trunk?  I just checked the Z frames and it seems she was there to about z 466-67.  

Your eyes are the best.  So, can you take a look at that Weigman frame and see if you see any railroad men and Officer Foster on the railroad bridge above Elm Street.  I can't see any.  This has profound consequences for the railroad men's testimony with Mark Lane. There are other frames and photos that I think show the absence of the railroad men in that area contrary to Altgens 7.  I believe the railroad men were there.  At least some of them were there.  I believe they were just off the bridge to the north.  They would have been able to see what they testified too.

But, maybe after the fact and seeing Altgens 7 they thought they were there as shown in Altgens 7. 

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

John Butler writes:

Quote

If I was a rich guy I would offer you lots of money if you can find the "Babushka Lady" in the Zapruder Film standing next to Charles Brehm and son.

The 'Babushka Lady' is clearly visible in the Zapruder film. Here she is in frame 287:

https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z287.jpg

No fewer than 21 frames show her standing just behind Charles Brehm and his 5-year-old son Joe, exactly where several other films and photos show her standing. She comes into view on the right-hand edge of frame 275:

https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z275.jpg

She remains visible for just over one second, and is finally seen in the sprocket area on the left-hand edge of frame 296:

https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z296.jpg

Did John not actually look at the Zapruder film before he claimed that she wasn't in it?

Quote

What I mean is the Zapruder Film, which I believe is your gold standard on what happened in Dealey Plaza, does not show the BB Lady while other films do show her.  Do you have an explanation for that?

What needs explaining is why John thought she isn't shown in the Zapruder film, when she obviously is.

Quote

Take your pick.  Either the Zapruder Film is wrong or the other films are wrong.  Which will you pick?

All the films are correct, and John is wrong. He is spectactularly wrong, and not for the first time.

Sometimes we just have to admit that we don't have the necessary skills for a particular line of work. John is the Florence Foster Jenkins of JFK assassination research.