The Zfilm, The copies and The Geraldo

[Pat Speer]

I'm surprised no one brought this up already. This is the same dress. The images have not been colorized. Our perceptions of color can be affected by the level of exposure in an image. 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Pat Speer

[Sean Coleman]

No way is this woman……

……this woman

[John Butler]

5 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

At the risk of being called a "chaser" by John

What is a chaser?

[John Butler]

15 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

This is turning into one of the zaniest threads I've seen for a long time.

Finally, something to agree on here. The comments in this thread have become unbelievably bizarre.  I think I will drop out of this nonsense.  But, one last comment on the BB Lady.

[John Butler]

On the Trail of the Babushka Lady

The Babushka Lady or Women, as you sometimes see, is a complicated, mysterious person.  Mysterious in the sense that we don’t know who this woman was.  I believe I can track the BB Lady from the NE corner of Main and Houston Streets to the area between Elm Street and Main Street in front of the Grassy Knoll after the assassination.

The BB Lady’s journey is complicated by the Zapruder film.  She is not in the film.  Instead, we have a figure I have named the Lady in Blue.  Since the Zapruder film is the holy grail, or gold standard of the Official Story, the BB Lady was not in Dealey Plaza even though other films show her there.  Who are you going to believe?  Zapruder or other films.

We can find the BB Lady on the NE corner of Main and Houston streets before the presidential motorcade arrives.  Altgens 4 shows a woman wearing a head scarf standing on that corner.  She is wearing sun glasses.  I believe this nameless woman is the BB Lady.

Altgens 3 shows the larger area:

This woman can also be seen in the Marie Muchmore film standing on the NE corner of Main and Houston Streets as the first elements of the presidential motorcade arrives.

She can be seen in various films during the assassination, Muchmore and Bronson are examples:

However, there is evidence that says the BB Lady arrived in Dealey Plaza after the assassination.  First off, she is not in the Zapruder film.  A Hughes frame shows her moving towards Dealey Plaza. 

This may not be the BB Lady since the color of her rain coat is different.  Or this could simply be a color distortion.  I believe the head scarf could be the same color which has purplish designs.  The hair style also matches.  She has a pursed strapped to her shoulder that you can see better in other photos.

The BB Lady arrives in Dealey Plaza after the assassination as she was shown in a Cancellare photo.  If you look closely you can see her sun glasses.

And, here are other shots of her once she is in Dealey Plaza:

All of the photos of the BB Lady show her with her back to the camera except for three.  These are Algens 4, a Hughes frame, and the Cancellare photo.

She does have a camera in Dealey Plaza.  Her photos were never seen and her camera was not taken from her.

In this Muchmore frame the BB Lady doesn’t have her purse and seems a bit transparent.

The Babushka Lady as seen in various films is a fabrication, particularly shown in the Marie Muchmore film.

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by John Butler

[Sandy Larsen]

9 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

9 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

This is the same dress. The images have not been colorized. Our perceptions of color can be affected by the level of exposure in an image. 

 

Pat,

If you're saying that the two photos have been exposed at different levels, then it should be noted that:

1. It isn't our perception of color that is being affected, it is the "perception" of the film that is being affected. What we see are really photos of beige and blue dresses. It is the film that is wrong, not us.
2. I doubt there was/is a commercial film so cheap that it would record the same dress as the two images we see above under similar lighting conditions. I'll bet that the beige one was greatly underexposed or overexposed, and afterward corrected for brightness so that its brightness appeared to be about the same as the blue photo.
3. The bottom line is that this example has nothing to do with what we see in the film. What we see in the film is much more likely due to fading.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

9 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

3. The bottom line is that [Pat's] example has nothing to do with what we see in the film. What we see in the film is much more likely due to fading.

 

Pat's example made me realize that a cheap 1990's era digital scan of an old faded film might result in a blue color being changed to tan.

Did the film where Babushka Lady can be seen come from a VHS video? Anything in that format can have easily had it's color changed by tweaking a knob. Remember the hue and saturation knobs on old TVs?

I didn't do any digital scanning in the 1990s. Perhaps it was easy to have the color adjusted wrong back in those days.

Also, keep in mind that colors fade in color film. I've noticed that red seems to be the color that retains it's color the longest.

 

[Pat Speer]

39 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Pat,

If you're saying that the two photos have been exposed at different levels, then it should be noted that:

1. It isn't our perception of color that is being affected, it is the "perception" of the film that is being affected. What we see are really photos of beige and blue dresses. It is the film that is wrong, not us.
2. I doubt there was/is a commercial film so cheap that it would record the same dress as the two images we see above under similar lighting conditions. I'll bet that the beige one was greatly underexposed or overexposed, and afterward corrected for brightness so that its brightness appeared to be about the same as the blue photo.
3. The bottom line is that this example has nothing to do with what we see in the film. What we see in the film is much more likely due to fading.

 

You can tell by looking at the background. The black and blue dress as normally seen appeared to be gold and white when overexposed. This came as a surprise to millions, including myself, when this went viral. People knew that over-exposure caused differences in shades within a color, but few realized that it could also lead to something appearing to be a different color. This is why I thought this might be relevant. The gold/beige jacket on the babushka lady might appear blue in an underexposed image, that is, one in which the grass is far more green than its actual shade. I believe this was demonstrated in Ray's post.

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

John Butler writes:

Quote

The BB Lady’s journey is complicated by the Zapruder film.  She is not in the film.  Instead, we have a figure I have named the Lady in Blue.

I've explained, twice now, why the woman appears to have a purple or blue tinge. It wasn't because she suddenly changed from wearing a light brown coat to a blue dress, or because our lizard overlords suddenly beamed her up and replaced her with one of Jack Ruby's strippers. It was simply because, in the copy John was using, the colours are distorted.

Does John genuinely not understand this obvious fact? I suppose he doesn't, so I'll try to make it as simple as possible:

• Look at the version of frame 288 that John has posted towards the bottom of page 17.
• Look at the blue (actually, it looks more like purple to me, but I'll go with blue, since that's what John sees) tinge to her clothes.
• Where else can you see that colour?
• Just below the woman, you can see the same colour in young Master Brehm's coat.
• Just below the boy, you can see the same colour all along the presidential limousine.
• You can see the same colour on the motorcycle policeman next to the lower sprocket hole.
• You can see the same colour in the blurred area just below the upper sprocket hole.
• You can even see a hint of the same colour in some of the foliage at the top of the frame, and in Charles Brehm's trousers.
• What does that tell you?
• Does it tell you that all of these items (woman, boy, car, cop, foliage, trousers) were the same shade of blue in reality?
• Or does it tell you that the frame itself has a blue cast, and that we shouldn't assume that the colours are accurate?

The answer is so obvious that even John Butler should be able to work it out, I hope. In the frame John was using, the colours are distorted. The colour of the presidential limousine alone tells us that the colours in John's copy are distorted.

And that's all there it is to it. There is no good reason to suppose that the woman was dressed in blue. There was no need for John to invent a ridiculously far-fetched episode involving Jack Ruby's strippers and two teams of photo-alteration specialists who went around faking all the home movies and photographs from Dealey Plaza.

The woman in the Zapruder film is the same woman we see in the other films and photos.

[Sandy Larsen]

 

17 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Where else can you see that [dark bluish] colour?

• Just below the woman, you can see the same colour in young Master Brehm's coat.
• Just below the boy, you can see the same colour all along the presidential limousine.
• You can see the same colour on the motorcycle policeman next to the lower sprocket hole.
• You can see the same colour in the blurred area just below the upper sprocket hole.
• You can even see a hint of the same colour in some of the foliage at the top of the frame, and in Charles Brehm's trousers.

17 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

• What does that tell you?

 

It tells me that the image has dark-bluish colors in it, just like it has greens, reds, etc. It doesn't tell me that tan colors appear to be dark-blue.

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

There is no good reason to suppose that the woman was dressed in blue.

 

Show me another case of a beige colored item, of significant size, appearing to be dark blue and then I will believe you.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that a mystery exists and that you are waving it off as though the mystery were solved. It isn't.

 

[Joe Bauer]

16 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:

No way is this woman……

……this woman

You can say THAT again. 

[David G. Healy]

12 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

[...]

The answer is so obvious that even John Butler should be able to work it out, I hope. In the frame John was using, the colours are distorted. The colour of the presidential limousine alone tells us that the colours in John's copy are distorted.

And that's all there it is to it.

[...]

are you speaking from a position of authority, Mr Bojczuk? Explain to us how you divined the above conclusion -or- are you just breaking wind with your prognostications? Your demeaning responses are crafted tight, so tight in fact one becomes very curious as to whose your dog in this discussion?

What is the lineage of the image you made your color distorted determinations from? What distortion, what made the distortion and who made said distortion? However, I suppose you won't clarify because you can't... and simply don't know...

[John Butler]

57 minutes ago, David G. Healy said:

are you speaking from a position of authority, Mr Bojczuk? Explain to us how you divined the above conclusion -or- are you just breaking wind with your prognostications? Your demeaning responses are crafted tight, so tight in fact one becomes very curious as to whose your dog in this discussion?

What is the lineage of the image you made your color distorted determinations from? What distortion, what made the distortion and who made said distortion? However, I suppose you won't clarify because you can't... and simply don't know...

I'll say ditto even though I don't have the tech experience or knowledge.

The following uses John Costella's frames for Zapruder images.  And, Wilma Bond's photo of the BB Lady.

As you can see the colors do not change with overexposure.  Toni Foster's tan raincoat does not turn blue and Mary's dark blue raincoat does not turn tan.  The same goes for the Lady in Blue frame.  Her dress does not turn tan.  The colors retain some degree of the original color when overexposed.

 

In the Bond photo the BB Lady's raincoat does not turn blue.  Mary and the policemen's dark blue clothing does not turn tan.  In Z 288 the Lady in Blues short sleeve dress does not turn into a tan raincoat.  The p. limo's color does not become tan.

OBTW, how do you turn a short sleeve blue dress into a long sleeve tan raincoat?  One fellow some years back tackled that notion by saying the Lady in Blue wore a blue dress in front and a tan dress in back.  He said it was very fashionable in those times.  But, that explanation didn't explain the short sleeve blue dress/long sleeve tan raincoat problem.

It also didn't explain how you can turn a black head band into a head scarf, or as my dear old mother would say a babushka.

Surely, this will be my last comment in this highly brilliant, gaslighted thread.  Exempt Chris Davidson, David Healey, Sandy Larsen from this comment and others who are rational. 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by John Butler

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Sandy Larsen writes:

Quote

the image has dark-bluish colors in it ... I'm just saying that a mystery exists

There is no mystery. John was using a poor-quality copy, in which the colours are distorted. That's it.

The frame John was using is from the Costella version at https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/. During his manipulation of the images, Costella went overboard in saturating the colours, which produced the distortion we see throughout John's frame.

Costella may have had a legitimate reason for doing this. Increasing or decreasing the colour saturation (or other variables, such as contrast) of an image can help to bring out particular details. But manipulating an image in one way usually affects it in other ways, not all of them beneficial. When manipulating digital images, you always have to be prepared to sacrifice accuracy in one respect or another.

There is no such thing as a perfectly accurate range of colours and tones and contrast in any complex photographic image. Depressingly, this fact will come as news to many photo-alteration enthusiasts, for whom run-of-the-mill photographic artefacts are eagerly interpreted either as true representations of the world or as evidence of malicious alteration, depending on the enthusiast's needs at the time.

Whatever his reasons, Costella's manipulation has left some of the colours distorted. In particular, some of the very dark areas now show a distinctive purple-blue tinge. This includes areas that were naturally dark, such as the police motorcyclists and the presidential limousine; areas that were in shadow, such as the front of the woman; and areas that were both dark and in shadow, such as young Master Brehm's coat.

We know that this purple-blue colour is not necessarily an accurate depiction of reality because we are able to compare the purple-blue of the car in John's frame with the car's colour in many other images, such as the Muchmore film, the Bronson film, the Bond photos, and especially in other editions of the Zapruder film (e.g. the frame Ray posted at the bottom of page 17). In all of these images, the car is not purple-blue but either black or a very dark blue.

It's conceivable that the car wasn't actually black or very dark bue. Maybe it really had been painted with the groovy psychedelic purple-blue colour we see in the Costella frame, and all the other images are inaccurate. Personally, I think it's more likely that the car was actually black or dark blue, and it's the Costella frame that's inaccurate.

What applies to the car also applies to the other dark areas in that frame: the woman, the boy, the motorcycle policeman, and so on. There is no mystery.

[Joe Bauer]

On 4/1/2022 at 5:18 PM, John Butler said:

On the Trail of the Babushka Lady

The Babushka Lady or Women, as you sometimes see, is a complicated, mysterious person.  Mysterious in the sense that we don’t know who this woman was.  I believe I can track the BB Lady from the NE corner of Main and Houston Streets to the area between Elm Street and Main Street in front of the Grassy Knoll after the assassination.

The BB Lady’s journey is complicated by the Zapruder film.  She is not in the film.  Instead, we have a figure I have named the Lady in Blue.  Since the Zapruder film is the holy grail, or gold standard of the Official Story, the BB Lady was not in Dealey Plaza even though other films show her there.  Who are you going to believe?  Zapruder or other films.

We can find the BB Lady on the NE corner of Main and Houston streets before the presidential motorcade arrives.  Altgens 4 shows a woman wearing a head scarf standing on that corner.  She is wearing sun glasses.  I believe this nameless woman is the BB Lady.

Altgens 3 shows the larger area:

This woman can also be seen in the Marie Muchmore film standing on the NE corner of Main and Houston Streets as the first elements of the presidential motorcade arrives.

She can be seen in various films during the assassination, Muchmore and Bronson are examples:

However, there is evidence that says the BB Lady arrived in Dealey Plaza after the assassination.  First off, she is not in the Zapruder film.  A Hughes frame shows her moving towards Dealey Plaza. 

This may not be the BB Lady since the color of her rain coat is different.  Or this could simply be a color distortion.  I believe the head scarf could be the same color which has purplish designs.  The hair style also matches.  She has a pursed strapped to her shoulder that you can see better in other photos.

The BB Lady arrives in Dealey Plaza after the assassination as she was shown in a Cancellare photo.  If you look closely you can see her sun glasses.

And, here are other shots of her once she is in Dealey Plaza:

All of the photos of the BB Lady show her with her back to the camera except for three.  These are Algens 4, a Hughes frame, and the Cancellare photo.

She does have a camera in Dealey Plaza.  Her photos were never seen and her camera was not taken from her.

In this Muchmore frame the BB Lady doesn’t have her purse and seems a bit transparent.

The Babushka Lady as seen in various films is a fabrication, particularly shown in the Marie Muchmore film.

 

 

 

Whoever the tan coat / light scarf wearing women is, these consecutive photo shot sequences prove that she was right behind Brehm ( maybe 6 ft.? ) and had already settled into a stationary standing position long enough to lift and use her camera just as JFK's limo is passing bye right in front of her, Brehm, his son, Mary Moorman and Jean Hill.

To bad she was never identified or came forward.

She was one of only a handful of eyewitness just 20 foot away when JFK's head exploded right in front of them.