What is the Deep State?

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

I live in a very blue area of California.

Ah! While you are very fortunate, it does mean you're not likely seeing the severity of the crisis on the ground, as folks like Pat and myself do. RW media, Russian propaganda, and Fox "News" have radicalized these people. To the extreme. It's very real.

[Paul Brancato]

52 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Ah! While you are very fortunate, it does mean you're not likely seeing the severity of the crisis on the ground, as folks like Pat and myself do. RW media, Russian propaganda, and Fox "News" have radicalized these people. To the extreme. It's very real.

The rest my post states that I do in fact sympathize with Pat and would feel likewise in his shoes. 

[Guest]

This is one of the most enlightened conversations I have heard regarding mass formation psychosis. Dr Mattias Desmet (psychology professor) explains what happens to the mind when certain conditions are put in place by totalitarians. They can also occur naturally. Mass psychosis has occurred through the ages and it’s almost identical to hypnotism. Essentially the MSM are able to put a society in this psychosis and even many of the most educated people can’t see it happening to them. The talk is fascinating and they touch upon the Milgrim and Asche conformity experiments. They also discuss how we are being walked into totalitarian technocracy & trans humanism agenda by an elite who view it as the best way forward. The subtle differences between communist or fascist totalitarianism are mentioned. 
 

https://ift.tt/khKJ6SF 

 

After watching you can decide if your CNN and Fox are doing this to their audiences. Why wouldn’t they? 

It’s about an hour long but, there is no way you could get bored. 

[Matt Allison]

22 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

The rest my post states that I do in fact sympathize with Pat and would feel likewise in his shoes. 

Interesting. Because it seems you've allowed yourself to be propagandized just as much as Trump's acolytes have.

Nor realizing that Trump was a far worse President than any in history (including W) is the first red flag that the RW propaganda machine has succeeded with someone.

Like I said, because of where you reside, I don't think you're experiencing some things.

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Perhaps this highlights what is going on in your amygdala, Pat. I wasn't intending to insult you, as I am sure your comment about Ben and I wasn't meant that way. I wasn't offended. 

Addressing the middle paragraph; Trump is a used car salesman who has served a purpose. We couldn't differ more on your perception of Trump in terms of the threat. The only explanation for you being unable to see 'divide and rule' strategy being used by your party, as well as the other, is that you're in a fear psychosis. I am sorry if that's unwelcome. 

Haven't we already addressed the Roger Stone / Bannon / Trump campaign narrative about the deep state? The conglomerates that dominate the ownership of MSM controlled the media, as they do now, not Trump. IMHO Trump served a purpose, like Biden is now. You think it's a battle of virtue, good vs evil and the blue team carry the torch of freedom and democracy. I think you're in Plato's cave watching torch lit projections on a wall. That's essentially the crux of my argument in the whole thread. It's so simple to see the theatre being a neutral. I can switch between Fox and CNN, they're doing the same thing, attacking your senses with sensation. The population is consumed by it. 


 

Yikes.

1. I am not now nor ever have been a Democrat. I was raised Republican. My dad was friends with Barry Goldwater, Jr. Upon turning 18, I registered as an independent. I cast my first vote in a presidential election for a moderate Republican, John Anderson.

2. The "divide and rule" strategy has not been one pushed primarily by Democrats, but by Republicans. Dems like Carter, Clinton, Obama, and Biden, have been elected by leaning towards the middle. This worked as well for Bush I. But Reagan, Bush II, and Trump have all courted the religious and racist right. 

3. All this "fear psychosis" mumbo jumbo is garbage-ola--to use a clinical term--designed to let the self-satisfied off the hook for not seeing that Trump was and is a serious threat to humanity. There are elites of all stripes that try to shape history for their own benefit. And then there are monsters so desirous of power and attention that they are willing to sacrifice the lives and well-being of others, and even the security of their country, under the illusion it will make them an inch taller while laying flat on their back.

Putin is one of those. And so is Trump. 

And no, I wasn't brain-washed by the MSM into thinking this way. If anything, I brain-washed them. Within days of the election I performed a deep dive into what had happened, and came to realize the mainstream media spin that Hillary had messed up and let a clown sneak into office by not addressing the economy was a myth, and that what had actually happened was that Trump had declared himself a generalissimo in a culture war designed to keep a white minority in power. Now I wasn't alone in this. Others such as Bill Maher saw it too and began predicting, as I, that Trump would not willingly concede the next election. 

And we were right. Years ago I read that the FBI had once flagged those opposing Hitler before WWII as PAF (Premature Anti-Fascists). To Hoover this was a sign not that these people were smart, and could see the writing on the wall, but that they were susceptible to Communist propaganda. 

I'm a modern-day PAF, and wear it as a badge of honor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

1. I am not now nor ever have been a Democrat. I was raised Republican. My dad was friends with Barry Goldwater, Jr. Upon turning 18, I registered as an independent. I cast my first vote in a presidential election for a moderate Republican, John Anderson.

Pat, I apologise for mischaracterising you as a democrat. It’s just you appear to be triggered by MR T whenever his name is thrown about. 
 

7 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

2. The "divide and rule" strategy has not been one pushed primarily by Democrats, but by Republicans. Dems like Carter, Clinton, Obama, and Biden, have been elected by leaning towards the middle. This worked as well for Bush I. But Reagan, Bush II, and Trump have all courted the religious and racist right. 

You’re doing this thing thats common here where you give one party a pass for something because the other does it more. The big picture is that by having a nation divided as many ways as possible, they are easier to rule and distract. The British did a very effective job of this in India. My contention is that your elites are doing exactly that. Both parties are necessary in the equation, as are news networks that appear as polar opposites. We’re not talking about getting elected, we’re talking about ruling the US population. 
 

15 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

3. All this "fear psychosis" mumbo jumbo is garbage-ola--to use a clinical term--designed to let the self-satisfied off the hook for not seeing that Trump was and is a serious threat to humanity. There are elites of all stripes that try to shape history for their own benefit. And then there are monsters so desirous of power and attention that they are willing to sacrifice the lives and well-being of others, and even the security of their country, under the illusion it will make them an inch taller while laying flat on their back

It’s been written about by some of the most educated psychologists in history. You saying it’s mumbo jumbo is ignorant or at best intellectually lazy. I’m implying that both the Republicans and Democrats are both in a mass psychosis, its separate. If you take the time to watch Desmet’s interview that I posted above, it’ll shed some light. Are still in self development or set in your ways? 
 

Is there something precious to you about how Trump got into power? Something you want to debate? 

32 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

'm a modern-day PAF, and wear it as a badge of honor.

I can at least commend you on that. 

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I’m not sure I fit into the mold of Donks as you refer to it. I’m certainly not propagandized by their media outlets. I’m not in a red blue pissing contest. I can hold shades of meaning simultaneously. Liz Cheney did a courageous thing, at least judging by the rarity of anyone bucking Trump. That’s as far as it goes. I’m as annoyed by overstating that as you are, and still I admire what she did, period. Robert Mueller is a tool. My then girlfriend kept licking her chops waiting for the Russia Mueller report. I refrained from bursting her bubble once I saw how wedded she was to her soon to be hero. As for Trump, as Chris says there is a class of Democrats who slather at the mention of his name. I’m not one of them, don’t fall for the ‘anyone but Trump’ spin. He’s not even our worst modern president in my opinion - that would be Bush Jr. But he is disgusting. So I’m partisan. At the same time I hold the view that his openness to talking one on one with autocrats and dictators is admirable. I don’t see him as a Putin puppet. But I do think he is extremely dangerous, because if he were to succeed in overthrowing the current political system he would install something far worse. I fear some of his constituencies. I don’t want a race war, vigilante justice. But I crave dialogue with those same constituencies, know that there is far more common ground than our divide and rule elites want us to discover. 

Paul--

Thank you for your thoughtful and civil response, free of  contentiousness.

I was not including you in the the large run of Donks or populist 'Phants who are obsessed with either defending every fart from Trump, or condemning Trump as worse than Hitler.  

As for Trump being a threat to a democracy---this is what gets me: isn't one of the points of this forum that our democracy is continuously undermined by the Deep State?

The Deep State replaced JFK, engineered the Iraqistan wars, runs the media, runs a global guard service for multinationals, and intentionally divides us by race, sex, and other attributes. 

I think a credible point of view (which I will post here someday, hold your noses TDS'ers) is that yes, the Deep State wanted Trump out, as a loose cannon on deck, so to speak. 

I repeat the question: OK, Trump is out. Now what? The Deep State got rid of its first irritant since JFK. 

This is democracy? A democracy would address the problems that lead to populism. Instead, the M$M defines populists as the problem.  

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh boy, Ben and Chris are so off on this it's almost comical. The MSM was incredibly slow in realizing the threat Trump posed to America. They initially found him embarrassing and ridiculous, and only later (long after I had written my series of articles discussing what had really happened in 2016, in which I concluded Trump was essentially a fascist) realized there was more to it than some poor whites who'd been left behind voting for a TV personality who'd said he would help them. It was an attack on the left, and middle, and even center-right--way beyond any "attack" on the right by Obama or Hillary, etc. 

Dudes, understand. I live in a relatively quiet purple suburb. And yet under Trump's influence, and calling, hordes of camouflage-wearing white people began parading up and down our streets, blasting out Lee Greenwood, in caravans of white pick-up trucks designed to frighten and intimidate everyone other than them. 10-20% of the houses went from putting up flags on Memorial Day and the 4th of July to hoisting American, U.S. Military and Trump flags 24/7. Empty stores were converted into "Republican value" stores where Trump's devotees could gather and get their pictures taken with cardboard stand-ups of the whole Trump family. Not Lincoln. Or Reagan. Trump, and his family. Exclusively. 

It was deeply disturbing. So if you think people over-react when Trump talks of regaining office, etc. think about it this way: How would you feel if some goons took a dump on your front lawn, and then stood out on your front porch with a baseball bat threatening you if you came out to complain? Because that's what life was like here in suburbia under Trump. 

"So if you think people over-react when Trump talks of regaining office, etc. think about it this way: How would you feel if some goons took a dump on your front lawn, and then stood out on your front porch with a baseball bat threatening you if you came out to complain? Because that's what life was like here in suburbia under Trump. "---PS

I grew up in SoCal, Altadena, Pasadena, then lived in Frogtown (Elysian Valley), Fairfax District, downtown art district, east Los Angeles, and widely visited everywhere for 50 years. Apathy and anomie define L.A. 

In what sylvan SoCal suburban setting did a man defecate on your front lawn and then threaten you with a baseball bat? Did you record this event with a smartphone (evidence for police?).

Well, I have been out of the country for 10 years. A lot has changed.  

 

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Interesting. Because it seems you've allowed yourself to be propagandized just as much as Trump's acolytes have.

Nor realizing that Trump was a far worse President than any in history (including W) is the first red flag that the RW propaganda machine has succeeded with someone.

Like I said, because of where you reside, I don't think you're experiencing some things.

Matt. -  methinks your yardstick for ‘worst president’ differs from mine. Worse individual Trump wins hands down. But Bush - not only did his international wars kill many hundreds of thousands and displace millions, it started a chain reaction that is ongoing. I once asked a former world bank member who was also a benefactor at a music festival I participated in whether he thought it possible that the right wing backlash to the political destabilization in Europe and the Uk bought on by massive influx of refugees from war torn Middle East was not only foreseen by the MIC but welcomed. I thought I was pushing bankster buttons but surprisingly he nodded and said quite possibly. Trump was a largely ineffectual president. I’ve said many times on this forum that I think he is extremely dangerous because of his part in releasing the animus of his mostly white followers towards brown people and ‘liberal elites’ like me. I’ll go with Jung on this - it’s not what you say it’s what you do that counts. And I don’t have to have lived in Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria or Lebanon to empathize and feel their terror and hopelessness. 

[Paul Brancato]

13 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

"So if you think people over-react when Trump talks of regaining office, etc. think about it this way: How would you feel if some goons took a dump on your front lawn, and then stood out on your front porch with a baseball bat threatening you if you came out to complain? Because that's what life was like here in suburbia under Trump. "---PS

I grew up in SoCal, Altadena, Pasadena, then lived in Frogtown (Elysian Valley), Fairfax District, downtown art district, east Los Angeles, and widely visited everywhere for 50 years. Apathy and anomie define L.A. 

In what sylvan SoCal suburban setting did a man defecate on your front lawn and then threaten you with a baseball bat? Did you record this event with a smartphone (evidence for police?).

Well, I have been out of the country for 10 years. A lot has changed.  

 

Metaphors Ben. Jeez. And Matt has a problem with my ability to see where Pat is coming from. We can and should fight for decency towards fellow humans and animals, for a more respectful way of life, and most importantly for something closer to equality of opportunity. When Pat calls out the Trumpsters in his midst, at least here, we might do well to realize that none of us are caught in the maelstrom that many can see coming at least intellectually. My way, and it’s only mine but still I believe it’s instructive, is to realize first that when people are denied equal access, adequate finances, affordable healthcare and decent free education they are going to get royally pissed off. That makes them fodder for autocrats. 
I’m not sure why we can’t hold two ideas simultaneously. One is that there is and has always been throughout human history a desire for more fairness by the vast majority of humans, who find themselves unable to make that happen because of sociopathic leaders that serve themselves and not the rest of us. The other is that the best tool the sociopaths know is divide and conquer. Hatred of the ‘other’ is deplorable. We have to break through and find common ground. That’s why I haven’t watched TV news for nearly two years. It’s not that I don’t espouse liberal views, it’s that the echo chamber isn’t news it’s propaganda. 
 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Metaphors Ben. Jeez. And Matt has a problem with my ability to see where Pat is coming from. We can and should fight for decency towards fellow humans and animals, for a more respectful way of life, and most importantly for something closer to equality of opportunity. When Pat calls out the Trumpsters in his midst, at least here, we might do well to realize that none of us are caught in the maelstrom that many can see coming at least intellectually. My way, and it’s only mine but still I believe it’s instructive, is to realize first that when people are denied equal access, adequate finances, affordable healthcare and decent free education they are going to get royally pissed off. That makes them fodder for autocrats. 
I’m not sure why we can’t hold two ideas simultaneously. One is that there is and has always been throughout human history a desire for more fairness by the vast majority of humans, who find themselves unable to make that happen because of sociopathic leaders that serve themselves and not the rest of us. The other is that the best tool the sociopaths know is divide and conquer. Hatred of the ‘other’ is deplorable. We have to break through and find common ground. That’s why I haven’t watched TV news for nearly two years. It’s not that I don’t espouse liberal views, it’s that the echo chamber isn’t news it’s propaganda. 
 

Paul-

I can tell from your writing style and content you have been kind and gentle towards neighbors and friends, which is all any of us can do.  I wish I had had your experience of playing in jazz bands. I took piano for a few years, but never made it to the performance level. 

Well, good luck out there, and I hope you do not have neighbors like Pat S. 

 

 

 

[Pat Speer]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

"So if you think people over-react when Trump talks of regaining office, etc. think about it this way: How would you feel if some goons took a dump on your front lawn, and then stood out on your front porch with a baseball bat threatening you if you came out to complain? Because that's what life was like here in suburbia under Trump. "---PS

I grew up in SoCal, Altadena, Pasadena, then lived in Frogtown (Elysian Valley), Fairfax District, downtown art district, east Los Angeles, and widely visited everywhere for 50 years. Apathy and anomie define L.A. 

In what sylvan SoCal suburban setting did a man defecate on your front lawn and then threaten you with a baseball bat? Did you record this event with a smartphone (evidence for police?).

Well, I have been out of the country for 10 years. A lot has changed.  

 

The story about the man with the baseball bat was a metaphor for the cumulative level of fear bestowed on those opposed to Trump. It wasn't overt violence, but it was an ongoing threat via T-shirts worn by moms at Target proposing the murder of Hillary, signs in storefronts saying f Gavin Newsom (with the f spelled out), banners for Trump on lawns and atop houses, and the insistence God and the military were backing Trump. Many of the houses flying Trump flags also flew (and still fly) Semper Fi flags. A large percentage of Trump's supporters wore camouflage 7 days a week, every week. Sometimes they would gather in a parking lot with a megaphone proclaiming God had sent Trump to save America from its sins. I was warned numerous times by numerous friends that I was taking my life in my hands if I wore an Obama or Black Lives Matter t-shirt, etc. And it wasn't because Rachel Maddow had poisoned our minds. It wasn't part of some left-wing mass psychosis. It was the threatening and brutish behavior of Trump supporters, which went far behind the behavior of Reagan, Bush, McCain, or Romney supporters. Trump made it okay to be a bully, to be a monster, and to terrorize your neighbors. And terrorize they did. There's a house a few blocks away that flies the American flag upside down. I'm not sure why. It could be someone protesting the Trump crazies but odds are it's someone who thinks we stopped being America when Biden was elected, and a black woman became VP. 

My family still goes out to eat sometimes. We have to sit outside because I am immuno-suppressed. In any event, I eavesdrop on 3 or 4 political conversations a week. And they are almost always about how our country is dying and how only Trump can bring it back, and how we have to do everything we can to destroy Newsom's governorship and Biden's presidency, so Trump can re-take the throne and we can be America again.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Kirk Gallaway]

I'm out of the states, so I just woke up. And before this sidetracking of whose worse Trump or Bush, and Ben's newest "Deep state" injection. Paul, I think for the last few pages  you've been on  a bit of a roll trying to appeal out of a sense on invoking genuineness and a common understanding of a greater aim, which isn't getting anywhere because it's not shared.I would ask you why now? Where have you been? You've observed Chris and Ben for a year and you've watched other interaction. Do you really see any meaningful capacity for growth?    

Now from Chris, not only are you not getting anything back from it, you  and Pat are being insulted about your awareness over and over again, heh heh! by a kid who could be in his 20's. ( I have more hope for him , if he is) with obviously a lot less life experience than you,whose just quoting you the newest ideas he's read from his latest article or book.(Now he's a neuroscientist) Whatever ambition he claims he's never crossed the pond, and has no life experience in the U.S.and presumes to tell you your life. I understand you guys are big enough to not take offense, but he obviously hasn't learned anything from you, and he's had plenty of opportunity, from others as well.

 

I love the general tack you're taking Paul. But again, at this point. I don't think  you have to continually defend yourself, that you're not "being played". Anybody whose read you should have understood that by now.  I don't think you need to explain yourself further. If haven't really been listened to by now, you never will be.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

The story about the man with the baseball bat was a metaphor for the cumulative level of fear bestowed on those opposed to Trump. It wasn't overt violence, but it was an ongoing threat via T-shirts worn by moms at Target proposing the murder of Hillary, signs in storefronts saying f Gavin Newsom (with the f spelled out), banners for Trump on lawns and atop houses, and the insistence God and the military were backing Trump. Many of the houses flying Trump flags also flew (and still fly) Semper Fi flags. A large percentage of Trump's supporters wore camouflage 7 days a week, every week. Sometimes they would gather in a parking lot with a megaphone proclaiming God had sent Trump to save America from its sins. I was warned numerous times by numerous friends that I was taking my life in my hands if I wore an Obama or Black Lives Matter t-shirt, etc. And it wasn't because Rachel Maddow had poisoned our minds. It wasn't part of some left-wing mass psychosis. It was the threatening and brutish behavior of Trump supporters, which went far behind the behavior of Reagan, Bush, McCain, or Romney supporters. Trump made it okay to be a bully, to be a monster, and to terrorize your neighbors. And terrorize they did. There's a house a few blocks away that flies the American flag upside down. I'm not sure why. It could be someone protesting the Trump crazies but odds are it's someone who thinks we stopped being America when Biden was elected, and a black woman became VP. 

My family still goes out to eat sometimes. We have to sit outside because I am immuno-suppressed. In any event, I eavesdrop on 3 or 4 political conversations a week. And they are almost always about how our country is dying and how only Trump can bring it back, and how we have to do everything we can to destroy Newsom's governorship and Biden's presidency, so Trump can re-take the throne and we can be America again.

 

Pat S-

Again, what neighborhood or city are you discussing?  Down in Orange County? Lakewood? San Diego military communities? 

The parts of L.A. I lived in for 50 years...were mostly liberal or apolitical. 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I'm out of the states, so I just woke up. And before this sidetracking of whose worse Trump or Bush, and Ben's newest "Deep state" injection. Paul, I think for the last few pages  you've been on  a bit of a roll trying to appeal out of a sense on invoking genuineness and a common understanding of a greater aim, which isn't getting anywhere because it's not shared.I would ask you why now? Where have you been? You've observed Chris and Ben for a year and you've watched other interaction. Do you really see any meaningful capacity for growth?    

Now from Chris, not only are you not getting anything back from it, you  and Pat are being insulted about your awareness over and over again, heh heh! by a kid who could be in his 20's. ( I have more hope for him , if he is) with obviously a lot less life experience than you,whose just quoting you the newest ideas he's read from his latest article or book.(Now he's a neuroscientist) Whatever ambition he claims he's never crossed the pond, and has no life experience in the U.S.and presumes to tell you your life. I understand you guys are big enough to not take offense, but he obviously hasn't learned anything from you, and he's had plenty of opportunity, from others as well.

 

I love the general tack you're taking Paul. But again, at this point. I don't think  you have to continually defend yourself, that you're not "being played". Anybody whose read you should have understood that by now.  I don't think you need to explain yourself further. If haven't really been listened to by now, you never will be.

 

Good to see you haven’t become any less deceitful since leaving the country. While you raise the idea of meaningful contribution, I can’t remember the last time you actually posted a thread. Has it been a year? What is your contribution here besides snidey remarks? 🙂 

Thank you for the age compliment. I do feel pretty good at 40. 

I think the way Paul debates and conducts himself is pretty exemplary. He also has an inquisitive mind that is able to think outside of convention and groupthink. You could learn something there. Enjoy your hols.