Message From David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:37 PM, John Deignan said:

The Connally hat flip happens the same time JFK hands are at his neck. JFK is Reacting to a bullet that has struck him. While J.C’s hat flip would be the actual moment the bullet is striking him, moving his wrist and hat. JFK move his own hands while the actual bullet moves J.C’s wrist. Just doesn’t seem like one bullet to me. 

Good gosh, you're splitting a lot of hairs here. You seem to want to fine-tune it down to about a millionth of a second regarding each victim's reaction time. Fact is, of course, that reaction times to people getting struck by bullets will vary from person to person. But in this Z-Film instance, we can SEE the two people who were being hit by a rifle bullet jerking their arms upward at precisely the same instant.

Now, CTers can argue (and they will) that the REASON for the simultaneous reactions we see in JFK & JBC is not that they were actually reacting to the BULLET that was hitting them at just about this exact same time (and even CTers will have to agree with my "just about" statement here), but CTers will likely say that Connally was merely reacting to the SOUND of a bullet he heard whiz past his ear.

I'd then ask: What's causing this sudden jerking up of Connally's right arm---the very same arm/wrist that (per CTers) has not yet been hit (but WILL be hit) by a bullet in another fraction of a second?

Just hearing the SOUND of a bullet is causing this hat dance? That's a mighty convenient excuse for CTers, IMO.

Edited July 29, 2022 by David Von Pein

[John Deignan]

11 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Good gosh, you're splitting a lot of hairs here. You seem to want to fine-tune it down to about a millionth of a second regarding each victim's reaction time. Fact is, of course, that reaction times to people getting struck by bullets will vary from person to person. But in this Z-Film instance, we can SEE the two people who were being hit by a rifle bullet jerking their arms upward at precisely the same instant.

Now, CTers can argue (and they will) that the REASON for the simultaneous reactions we see in JFK & JBC is not that were actually reacting to the BULLET that was hitting them at just about this exact same time (and even CTers will have to agree with my "just about" statement here), but CTers will likely say that Connally was merely reacting to the SOUND of a bullet he heard whiz past his ear.

I'd then ask: What's causing this sudden jerking up of Connally's right arm---the very same arm/wrist that (per CTers) has not yet been hit (but WILL be hit) by a bullet in another fraction of a second?

Just hearing the SOUND of a bullet is causing this hat dance? That's a mighty convenient excuse for CTers, IMO.

I don’t think you understand the difference between someone moving their hand in reaction( to a strike elsewhere on their body) and a bullet doing the moving of a hand by actually striking it. 

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, John Deignan said:

I don’t think you understand the difference between someone moving their hand in reaction (to a strike elsewhere on their body) and a bullet doing the moving of a hand by actually striking it. 

You think ALL of this large amount of movement of Connally's right hand was being caused ONLY by the bullet itself, vs. some (if not most) of this movement being the result of Connally exhibiting an involuntary reflex reaction? You think the bullet itself moved the hand this much? I kind of doubt that, John.

But at least you're willing to acknowledge that John Connally's wrist WAS hit by a bullet prior to Z227. Most members of this forum don't agree with you on that point at all.

Edited July 3, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, John Deignan said:

I don’t think you understand the difference between someone moving their hand in reaction( to a strike elsewhere on their body) and a bullet doing the moving of a hand by actually striking it. 

Well said over your last three posts John.  You should do so more often imho.  Of course, you will never convince DVP of Truth with Facts. 

[David Von Pein]

22 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Well said over your last three posts John.  You should do so more often imho.  Of course, you will never convince DVP of Truth with Facts. 

Good. Now Ron Bulman also seems to be admitting that John Connally's wrist was, indeed, struck by a bullet as early as Z226.

Excellent.

Progress is being made.

Edited July 3, 2022 by David Von Pein

[John Deignan]

24 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Good. Now Ron Bulman also seems to be admitting that John Connally's wrist was, indeed, struck by a bullet as early as Z226.

Excellent.

Progress is being made.

And JFK earlier!

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Lest we forget, the throat wound was one of entry per Dr. Perry that afternoon stated three times, a couple of hours after he cut it slightly more open to insert a tracheotomy tube.  I.E., it was a frontal shot.  So, at least two shots from the front.

       Yes, and the exit wound for the FBI cadaver test shot fired from the TSBD with a Mannlicher Carcano blew off the right half of the cadaver's face.

      Conversely the fatal JFK head shot blasted his occipital skull fragment backward behind the limo, striking one of the motorcycle cops, as I recall.

     The exit wound was posterior-- occipital parietal.

[Pat Speer]

On 7/1/2022 at 5:37 PM, Jonathan Cohen said:

Tell that to Marina, whom Oswald beat repeatedly ...

To my understanding, they had a volatile relationship that at times turned violent. IOW, it wasn't just mean ole Lee taking his frustration out on his hapless wife. She hit him too. 

[Tom Gram]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

      Conversely the fatal JFK head shot blasted his occipital skull fragment backward behind the limo, striking one of the motorcycle cops, as I recall.

     The exit wound was posterior-- occipital parietal.

Maybe, but as Pat Speer describes in excruciating detail in his online book, all of the autopsy evidence, taken completely at face value, strongly suggests that there were two headshots: one in the EOP, and one that impacted at the supposed exit on the top/side of JFK’s head. 

Kemp Clark is one Parkland witness I have a hard time with though. Could his memory have been wrong? In theory yes absolutely - but the guy was the chief neurosurgeon at Parkland, directly observed the wound, and described an occipital-parietal wound with leaking cerebellum. I have just trouble writing off the top brain surgeon in Dallas, whose observations were corroborated, based on the fact that experts sometimes screw up.

I still think that Pat is right on this, and that advocating for a reexamination of the medical evidence as-is is a lot more palatable for the types of people who’d be able to eventually reopen the case than allegations of forgery, etc., but Clark in particular still gives me doubts. 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 7/1/2022 at 8:05 PM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

On 7/1/2022 at 7:36 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

The $6500 up-front money he received from the red-haired black guy?

What happened to the money?

 

Most likely IMO there was never any money and never any red-haired black guy. The CIA plotters merely instructed the supposed witness to report this fabricated story. (Though it's certainly possible that this fabricated story was actually played out, just like Oswald's being in the Cuban embassy was played out using the Oswald imposter.)

The reported story was that Oswald was given this up-front money to pay for their killing of Kennedy.

When you put all the reported stories together, it makes it look like Russia and Cuba were in a conspiracy with Oswald's group to kill Kennedy.

But it was nothing but a false flag operation to blame the assassination on Russia and Cuba. That way, the US government would have popular support from the American people to attack Cuba. (Maybe even Russia? Remember, there were some generals who thought that we should attack Russia at that time, while we had superior nuclear capability. Or so I've read.)

 

On 7/1/2022 at 8:05 PM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

On 7/1/2022 at 7:36 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

What about his phone calls that were really made by imposters?

If a phone call was made it was by the CIA to gather information. This was a technique they had used.

 

I believe that the purpose of the strange "Oswald" phone calls was to ultimately alert the FBI, right after the assassination, that they needed to investigate the Mexico City affair. By listening to Oswald's surveilled voice recordings they would realize that it wasn't really Oswald talking (because one was in Spanish, and another was in very poor Russian) and they would realize there had been a conspiratorial thing going on in September.

This explains why the Mexico City affair was at first completely classified and covered up. Later, parts of it were revealed and used against Oswald by the WC. In the WC version, every hint of conspiracy was remove (the $6500 payoff, Kostikov being a KGB assassination chief, etc.) and even those who rode down to MC in a car with Oswald was removed. (Which is why the FBI had to work with Mexican officials to make up the story of Oswald traveling alone by bus, and presenting this fake evidence to the WC.)

Remember Tracy, I'm not making up any of the stuff that was reported by the CIA and FBI. That stuff paints a picture of Oswald conspiring with the Cubans and Russians to kill Kennedy. The only things I've done is to theorized that it was really a false flag operation... that the whole thing was faked in order to get popular support for a Cuban invasion.

The Johnson Administration freaked out over this information and covered it up, for fear of WW3. It was eventually declassified and conspiracy theorists have since tried to explain it. Lone nutters ignore it, as have some conspiracy theorists. I believe that those who ignore this  information will never understand correctly the JFK assassination plot.

 

[Mark Ulrik]

6 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Yes, and the exit wound for the FBI cadaver test shot fired from the TSBD with a Mannlicher Carcano blew off the right half of the cadaver's face.

I must be getting old, but I don't remember anything about FBI shooting up cadavers in DP.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Maybe, but as Pat Speer describes in excruciating detail in his online book, all of the autopsy evidence, taken completely at face value, strongly suggests that there were two headshots: one in the EOP, and one that impacted at the supposed exit on the top/side of JFK’s head. 

Kemp Clark is one Parkland witness I have a hard time with though. Could his memory have been wrong? In theory yes absolutely - but the guy was the chief neurosurgeon at Parkland, directly observed the wound, and described an occipital-parietal wound with leaking cerebellum. I have just trouble writing off the top brain surgeon in Dallas, whose observations were corroborated, based on the fact that experts sometimes screw up.

I still think that Pat is right on this, and that advocating for a reexamination of the medical evidence as-is is a lot more palatable for the types of people who’d be able to eventually reopen the case than allegations of forgery, etc., but Clark in particular still gives me doubts. 

Tom--

Amen. 

Then we have directly conflicting accounts, by seemingly sensible people, of how JFK's body arrived at Bethesda. In the bronze casket, or a GI-issue utilitarian steel-colored casket. 

In a body bag, not in a body bag. 

You would think such a horrific event would burn in indelible memories. 

---30---

Here is one from David Osborne. 

"In November, 1963, Admiral Osborne was a Captain in the

Navy and Chief of Surgery at Bethesda Naval Hospital."

So Osborne was promoted to an Admiral in his career after the JFKA.  Getting an admiralty is usually a record that is a solid accomplishment---a guy with his head screwed on straight. 

Osborne told the HSCA: 

...

"Osborne said that the President was fully dressed

when the coffin was opened.

Upon raising his shoulders to remove the coat, Osborne said that a slug rolled out of his clothing and onto the table.
The slug was copper-clad and that the Secret Service or

FBI took possession of this. Upon further inquiry, Osborne emphasized that the slug was a fully intact missile and
not a fragment."

---30---

But then Osborne might have quavered on this observation, and backtracked, later telling the HSCA he was not sure about the missile. 

Thus, JFK is described by credible witnesses as having arrived at Bethesda in his street clothes, or in white sheets, or in a body bag.

My conclusion is that even credible eyewitnesses are not credible. 

Hearsay evidence is even weaker---one person's spin on eyewitnesses said, who are possibly not credible. 

---30---

I trust what I see in the Z flim. JBC is pushed forward at Z-295 and JFK is shot at Z-313. That is about one second apart. 

Before being shot, JBC does a 180-degree turn in his seat---after JFK raises his hands to his throat.

So, the SBT'ers believe JBC did a 180-degree turn in his seat after being shot through the chest. This is not credible. 

Not only that, SBT'ers, although they might not know it, are positing that the bullet did not tumble after leaving JFK's throat. We know that from the small bullet hole in the rear of JBC's shirt, indicative of a straight or non-tumbling shot. 

The reasonable deduction is that there were at least two gunman in DP on 11/22. I suspect there diversionary gunfire, with a snub-nose pistol at the Grassy Knoll too--hence the smell of gunsmoke. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Sandy Larsen]

On 7/1/2022 at 8:22 PM, David Von Pein said:

[Oswald] never said a word to anybody during his interrogation about being on the steps during the shooting. Why not, Sandy?

 

What you say is not true, David. Oswald said in his interrogation that he was outside watching the Presidential Parade. The FBI covered it up.

Lucky for us, researcher Malcolm Blunt kept a copy of James Hosty's handwritten interrogation notes. Also lucky for us, three years ago researcher Bart Kamp discovered Oswald's alibi while he was digitizing the notes. Here it is:

Here's a transcript of the highlighted part:

O stated he was present for work at TBD on the morning of 11/22 and at noon went to lunch. He went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch P. [Presidential] Parade

 

While the discovery of Oswald's alibi came as a complete surprise to me, the fact that it placed him outside didn't surprise me at all.

Inspired by Prayer Man and what I could see in the Darnell film, I spent a year or two investigating the 2nd floor encounter about five years ago That encounter is contradicted by numerous things, and ultimately I concluded it was fabricated in order to place Oswald away from the first floor entrance during the shooting, which is where most the evidence places him.

One thing led to another and eventually I had to conclude that Oswald must have been outside. It was at that time that I  got off the fence and accepted Prayer Man as being Oswald.

And so that's the reason why I wasn't surprised to learn that Oswald's alibi was that he was outside watching the presidential parade.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

14 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

To clarify this, do you actually believe that Oswald was a LONE Assassin in Dealey Plaza?  🤥

 

W.,

There are apparently some people who can accept as fact something at face value and then spend the rest of their lives defending what they believe regardless of how strong the evidence against it is.

I am very much the opposite of that kind of person.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are people who seem to be that way, but are really being paid to behave that way.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

13 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

(And Luis Alvarez's cellophane-wrapped melon "simulation" was simply ludicrous.)

 

It was a parlor trick that took Alvarez's a great deal of effort to make work. And in the end the melon merely rolled back.