Was Oswald a right winger LARPing as a lefty?

[Phillip Pratt]

Oswald was a 4th cousin of Robert E Lee, and him and his brother were named after him. He grew up in the deep south and went in the military. All this sounds very conservative.

I’ve seen a lot of speculation that Oswald was LARPing as a radical lefty in a rolling ‘dangle op’ to root out lefties, perhaps because he was a self appointed Cold War undercover detective, and/or FBI informant.

There is a pattern in America where all high crimes get blamed on the left, including crimes committed against the left (see Jan 6 and Highland Park shooting).

This strategy reminds me of the Russian delegate in the UN recently who said “Ukraine are shelling themselves”. 🥱

My point is, Oswald self-owned by pretending to be marxist, and became the ideal patsy in a country where everybody is conditioned to (falsely) accuse the left.

[Benjamin Cole]

50 minutes ago, Phillip Pratt said:

Oswald was a 4th cousin of Robert E Lee, and him and his brother were named after him. He grew up in the deep south and went in the military. All this sounds very conservative.

I’ve seen a lot of speculation that Oswald was LARPing as a radical lefty in a rolling ‘dangle op’ to root out lefties, perhaps because he was a self appointed Cold War undercover detective, and/or FBI informant.

There is a pattern in America where all high crimes get blamed on the left, including crimes committed against the left (see Jan 6 and Highland Park shooting).

This strategy reminds me of the Russian delegate in the UN recently who said “Ukraine are shelling themselves”. 🥱

My point is, Oswald self-owned by pretending to be marxist, and became the ideal patsy in a country where everybody is conditioned to (falsely) accuse the left.

Well, lots has been written on this very topic and by some serious researchers. 

I would look up the work of Dan Hardway and John Newman, both who posit LHO was an intel-state asset.  Jim Di Eugenio's books are excellent also, for broader perspectives. 

My guess is, yes, LHO was an intel-state asset. 

LHO also grew up in New York City, and in New Orleans, which is sort of in the Deep South and sort of its own gig.  LHO evidently was not a racist, certainly not overtly, and had lived in Japan, Russia and other locations before arriving in Dallas. Obviously, LHO had a foreign wife. 

LHO was as cosmopolitan in his way as any academic in his age group. 

[Denny Zartman]

From what I understand, his father and both brothers in the military as well. And LHO couldn't wait to join the military, trying to sign up before he was old enough, and then immediately signing up within days after he was eligible. But then he starts reading Communist literature in boot camp to the point where others called him 'Oswaldkovich'? To me, that would be kind of like if a Marine walking around boot camp praising Al Quida today: more than a little suspicious.

And then Oswald suddenly disliked America and wanted to defect to the USSR, then suddenly disliked Russia and wanted to move back to America, then disliked America again and was seeking to move back to Russia?

It seems that's the official story, but to me it's more akin to the fast shuffling of a three card Monty dealer, keeping everyone confused as to the real strategy. 

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

It seems that's the official story, but to me it's more akin to the fast shuffling of a three card Monty dealer, keeping everyone confused as to the real strategy. 

Denny,

It's called "sheep-dipping".

https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-culture/sheep-dipping/

“While “sheep dipping” isn’t the official term for moving a troop from military service to the clandestine service, it’s the term the Agency uses to describe the process of taking a career soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine out of their branch of service on the surface. Instead of really removing the subject, the intelligence agency will just pull their official records, leaving behind their official record, the one which says the troop is retired, separated, or otherwise not in the military anymore.

The agency will take care of your real official record from there but there’s still work to be done on the service member’s part. They will be establishing an entirely new identity for themselves, after all. Their job is to make the move plausible, writing to friends and family telling them why they got out, what they’re going to do after leaving the military, and whatnot.”

Sound familiar?

Steve Thomas

 

[James DiEugenio]

I think that the work of Betsy Wolf, as collected by Malcolm Blunt, kind of seals the deal on this.

It was so potent, the HSCA would not print it.  Heck, they would not even type it up.

But it strongly indicates that someone rigged Oswald's CIA file even as he was going to Russia.

I cannot imagine any  above board reason to do that. 

[Guest]

People who know tonnes more than me can reel off countless contradictions in the legend of a disgruntled, Communist loner. But just sharing an office with Guy Banister in the summer of '63 is a bit of a giveaway. Still, Blakey was still sticking to the nutty, red Oswald portrait in the debate with Howard Willens at the Sixth Floor in 2018.

[Benjamin Cole]

56 minutes ago, Mike Kiely said:

People who know tonnes more than me can reel off countless contradictions in the legend of a disgruntled, Communist loner. But just sharing an office with Guy Banister in the summer of '63 is a bit of a giveaway. Still, Blakey was still sticking to the nutty, red Oswald portrait in the debate with Howard Willens at the Sixth Floor in 2018.

Blakey was a late, late, late, late, late bloomer. He eventually shucked off the CIA stuff. 

A deeply conventional man, and also a long-time mob hunter.  Almost exactly the wrong man for the job. 

 

[Guest]

Dan Hardway laid out the CIA's tactics during the HSCA with Len Osanic in the early 2000s. Joannides is obviously familiar to everyone here. Again, this level of scrutiny didn't happen because Oswald watched 'I Led Three Lives' as a kid, read a couple of Ian Fleming's novels, and decided to carve himself out a career as a one-man intelligence agency.

[Pete Mellor]

1 hour ago, Mike Kiely said:

People who know tonnes more than me can reel off countless contradictions in the legend of a disgruntled, Communist loner. But just sharing an office with Guy Banister in the summer of '63 is a bit of a giveaway.

Mike, Few offices in the Newman building had entrances on both 531 Lafayette Street and 544 Camp Street.  Guy Bannister and Associates office was shared on the ground floor (U.K. term.)- 1st floor (U.S. term) by Mancuso's Restaurant, both entrances being on Lafayette Street.  Just round the corner on Camp Street was the other entrance into the Newman building which was just a small enclosed area with stairs leading up to a few offices on the 1st floor (U.K. term)-2nd floor (U.S. term).  In 1962 Sergio Arcacha Smith had his CRC H.Q. in one of these offices, but by '63 he had moved out.  During Oswald's time in New Orleans only a couple of the Camp Street offices were occupied and these were Trade Unions offices.  The use of a Camp Street office (IF actually used) by Oswald certainly does not point to any close relationship with Bannister.  The building was arranged in such a way that there was no access from Camp to Bannister's office on Lafayette, unless you exited the Camp Street door and walked around the corner, past the restaurant to Bannister's office entrance door.

Bannister thought that Oswald's stamping of some of his leaflets with the Camp Street address was done to embarrass him.

[Guest]

Pete, have you a ref for Banister's claim that the leaflets, initially stamped with the Camp Street address, were created to embarrass him? According to vol 10 of the HSCA, the FBI did question him about Smith and the revolutionary council but "there is no indication from the report of that interview" that he was asked about Oswald.

Thanks

[Pete Mellor]

2 hours ago, Mike Kiely said:

Pete, have you a ref for Banister's claim that the leaflets, initially stamped with the Camp Street address, were created to embarrass him? According to vol 10 of the HSCA, the FBI did question him about Smith and the revolutionary council but "there is no indication from the report of that interview" that he was asked about Oswald.

Thanks

Yeah Mike, "Oswald did it to embarrass me" is a supposed statement that the Guy told his brother Ross Banister before his death in 1964.  Quote from Russo's 'Live By The Sword'.

OK I'm sure that many Forum members may jump in here to pour cold water on Russo's work.....with Oswald being the lone-nut assassin working for Fidel, but I'm just the messenger. 

[Guest]

Appreciate the ref, Pete. So Oswald pulls the leaflet stunt to embarrass someone he has no association with. Methinks, Guy protested too much. Some people aren't big fans of Anthony Summers, either, but I'll go with his interview with Delphine Roberts (The Kennedy Conspiracy, 1980) concerning Oswald and her boss. Unless, of course, she only related her story to embarrass Guy's surviving relatives. 

[James DiEugenio]

Its an open question about the CRC and I deal with his in the footnotes to JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass.  See page 60.  The HSCA did not do a good job on this.

As per Russo, who can trust a guy who was involved in the making of three of the worst specials ever on the JFK case?  Both Turner and Garrison disagree with what Russo conveyed. And they were both there when the building was up.

As per Oswald and Bannister, it is really kind of beyond question today that Oswald was working for the man.  In the second edition of Destiny Betrayed I noted ten witnesses who said this surely appeared to be the case.  (pgs. 110-13)

But this is only one aspect of the Oswald file today.  With the work that people like Malcolm Blunt, Jeff Morley and John Newman have done anyone who does not think Oswald was intel related is in denial.

Edited July 14, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Tom Gram]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Its an open question about the CRC and I deal with his in the footnotes to JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass.  See page 60.  The HSCA did not do a good job on this.

As per Russo, who can trust a guy who was involved in the making of three of the worst specials ever on the JFK case?  Both Turner and Garrison disagree with what Russo conveyed. And they were both there when the building was up.

As per Oswald and Bannister, it is really kind of beyond question today that Oswald was working for the man.  In the second edition of Destiny Betrayed I noted ten witnesses who said this surely appeared to be the case.  (pgs. 110-13)

But this is only one aspect of the Oswald file today.  With the work that people like Malcolm Blunt, Jeff Morley and John Newman have done anyone who does not think Oswald was intel related is in denial.

This connects to the Pena thread, but where do you think Bannister fits in to the whole Customs/INS/DeBrueys angle? If Oswald was being run as an agent by the US Govt. in New Orleans, let's say by David Smith as the case officer, Bannister seems to me like he'd have been contracted by Smith to conduct the ground-level propaganda operation and provide an additional layer of plausible deniability, or something.  

The the stuff about embarrassing Bannister is just not credible, IMO. Oswald is supposedly a commie loner that has only been in New Orleans for a couple months. Was Oswald so skilled at intelligence gathering on his own that he'd have figured out who Bannister was and what he was up to; and concoct a master plan to embarrass him by using the adjacent block address to Bannister's building on his FPCC flyers? Give me a break.  

[James DiEugenio]

I personally think that whole idea about Oswald being a commie loner is pretty much ridiculous.  I think Posner started it. As much of what he did was an act of desperation, I think this was also.  He just did not want to confront the plentiful evidence of Oswald working out of that building. As I said, I list ten witnesses who attest to either that or some kind of friendly relationship with Oswald.

And I did not include Jesse Core.  Core worked for Shaw, was his right hand man.  When Oswald was leafleting on Canal Street, he just happened to be there.  He brought a leaflet back that had 544 Camp Street on it.  Out of the ITM building, he sent it to the FBI office, with an arrow pointing to that address.  Core knew what was going on, in advance of the ITM leafleting incident.

As per what was going on with DeBrueys and Customs, with Banister, both these guys, Regis Kennedy and DeBrueys knew what Oswald was doing there that summer.  If there was such a meeting at the Customs Office, Banister was there, or he was briefed on it.  It might be that Banister was running the FBI part of the operation with Oswald discrediting the FPCC, and Smith standing in for the CIA.

I will say this, I really wish I had this stuff when I questioned DeBrueys in Metaire.