Ted Callaway & The 1:15 Shooting

[Tom Gram]

I noticed something that calls into question Bill's chronology of Callaway's movements that hasn't been mentioned in this thread. According to Bill, Callaway got on the radio in Tippit's patrol car immediately after arriving at the scene. This is based on Callaway's WC testimony, where he says exactly that. 

Callaway gave an affidavit to the DPD on 11/22/63. Callaway barely gives any detail, and only stated that he heard some shots at "about 1pm" and when he got to the scene he grabbed Tippit's gun and went after the suspect. He does not mention going on police radio:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337836/m1/1/

Callaway gave an affidavit to the SS on 12/3/63 that he heard the shots at "approximately 1:00 p.m." In this affidavit he mentions that he picked up Tippit's revolver after "two or three minutes" at the scene and went after the suspect. He does not mention going on police radio.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=552

Callaway spoke to the FBI on 2/26/64. In this report, Callaway correlates the shots with a radio report he heard on Kennedy's death that came in at "about 1:00 P.M." Callaway told the FBI that he got on the police radio after picking up the revolver and placing it on the hood of the car. Someone then put the gun in the car while he was on the radio, and he subsequently took off after the suspect with the gun. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11133#relPageId=271

By the time of Callaway's testimony on 3/26/64, he doesn't touch Tippit's gun at all until after calling in the shooting. His picking up the gun and someone placing it in the squad car both occur after he makes the call. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39#relPageId=362

Is it just me or does this smell of coached testimony by lawyers who wanted a "clean record"? At the very least it is certainly reason to question the timing of Callaway's dispatch call with his immediate arrival on the scene, IMO. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Bill Brown]

To recap, Callaway hears the shots.  Runs to the sidewalk.  Sees the gunman run south on Patton the entire block from Tenth to Jefferson.  Runs the two-thirds of a block up to the shooting scene.  Goes over to the police car and the first thing he does is grab the radio and report the shooting to the police dispatcher.

How much time do you believe passed from the time Callaway heard the shots to the time he reported the shooting on the police radio?

Let's say two minutes pass from the time Oswald shoots Tippit to the time Oswald turns the corner from Patton onto Jefferson.  This is a little over one block and Oswald was running.

Let's say it takes Callaway one minute when he made the "good hard run" the two-thirds of a block from his location to the patrol car.

If these two time estimates are anywhere close to being correct, then Callaway is at the patrol car roughly three minutes after the shots rang out.  Let's add another full minute for error.  So we have Callaway at the patrol car using the police radio about four minutes after the shots rang out.

Here's the thing... Callaway's report to the dispatcher while using the patrol car radio took place at 1:19/1:20.

Do the math and work it backwards.  At 1:19/1:20, Callaway makes the call.  If four minutes have passed (and that's being generous, in my opinion) since the shots rang out, then the shots rang out around 1:15.

[Sean Coleman]

 

Not sure “…around 1 o’clock or so…” can be read as 115pm. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Sean Coleman

[Bill Brown]

38 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

Not sure “…around 1 o’clock or so…” can be read as 115pm. 

 

But the police tapes tell you when Callaway made his report on the patrol car radio.  Callaway tells you his actions upon hearing the shots and before getting on the radio.  Work it backwards.

 

Are you seriously trying to say that 1:14 can't be considered "around 1 o'clock"?

 

 

[Sean Coleman]

Yep.

1255 - 105pm I’d say is around

 

[Bill Brown]

2 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:

Yep.

1255 - 105pm I’d say is around

 

 

Some of the witnesses said the shooting occurred around 1:30.  Now what?

 

[Michael Kalin]

On 7/22/2023 at 2:04 PM, Bill Brown said:

If these two time estimates are anywhere close to being correct, then Callaway is at the patrol car roughly three minutes after the shots rang out.  Let's add another full minute for error.  So we have Callaway at the patrol car using the police radio about four minutes after the shots rang out.

 

The two estimates aren't close to being correct, but congratulations are in order. You've just won the H.L. Mencken award ("For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.") for gross oversimplification.

The radio tapes show the sequence of events, but the time stamps lack accuracy. See CE1974 to start your research on this complex problem.

You also ignore Markham's evidence for a 1:06 shooting, Cimino's near solitary interlude, Benavides' fumbling with the radio, and Bowley's 1:10 arrival.

In an earlier thread you used the police tapes to gloss over actual evidence, without offering support for your speculations. Now's your chance. Hint: Callaway's claimed movements are useless unless you allow time for Bowley to make the actual call. The latter could not have been witnessed by Callaway as even an idiot observer would not repeat such a call.
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/28214-police-car-in-the-alley-nope/page/5/#comment-492259

Barrett's 3/17/64 report is attached (630h), hoping you have enough sense not to tamper with Markham's movements this time. The distance she walked to 10th was about 400 feet. All the way to East Jefferson would have been less than 900 feet. To put this in perspective a quarter mile equals 1320 feet. She would have easily reached 10th in under two minutes and Jefferson in four. Barrett must have been timing a turtle.

Edited June 12 by Michael Kalin
typo

[Tom Gram]

On 7/22/2023 at 1:04 PM, Bill Brown said:

To recap, Callaway hears the shots.  Runs to the sidewalk.  Sees the gunman run south on Patton the entire block from Tenth to Jefferson.  Runs the two-thirds of a block up to the shooting scene.  Goes over to the police car and the first thing he does is grab the radio and report the shooting to the police dispatcher.

Callaway’s actions at the scene, specifically the sequence of picking up the revolver, chasing the suspect, and going on the radio, are about as clear as mud:

On 8/1/2022 at 1:45 PM, Tom Gram said:

I noticed something that calls into question Bill's chronology of Callaway's movements that hasn't been mentioned in this thread. According to Bill, Callaway got on the radio in Tippit's patrol car immediately after arriving at the scene. This is based on Callaway's WC testimony, where he says exactly that. 

Callaway gave an affidavit to the DPD on 11/22/63. Callaway barely gives any detail, and only stated that he heard some shots at "about 1pm" and when he got to the scene he grabbed Tippit's gun and went after the suspect. He does not mention going on police radio:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337836/m1/1/

Callaway gave an affidavit to the SS on 12/3/63 that he heard the shots at "approximately 1:00 p.m." In this affidavit he mentions that he picked up Tippit's revolver after "two or three minutes" at the scene and went after the suspect. He does not mention going on police radio.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=552

Callaway spoke to the FBI on 2/26/64. In this report, Callaway correlates the shots with a radio report he heard on Kennedy's death that came in at "about 1:00 P.M." Callaway told the FBI that he got on the police radio after picking up the revolver and placing it on the hood of the car. Someone then put the gun in the car while he was on the radio, and he subsequently took off after the suspect with the gun. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11133#relPageId=271

By the time of Callaway's testimony on 3/26/64, he doesn't touch Tippit's gun at all until after calling in the shooting. His picking up the gun and someone placing it in the squad car both occur after he makes the call. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39#relPageId=362

Is it just me or does this smell of coached testimony by lawyers who wanted a "clean record"? At the very least it is certainly reason to question the timing of Callaway's dispatch call with his immediate arrival on the scene, IMO. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Bill Brown]

On 7/19/2022 at 7:14 AM, Gil Jesus said:

When the shooting occurred, Scoggins bailed out of his cab like a scared rabbit and was lying next to it in the street. He never saw the killer's face and that's why he picked the wrong picture.

 

@Gil Jesus posted false information when he made this comment (above) and to date, has not retracted the misinformation.

 

There is nothing to suggest that Scoggins was ever lying in the street.  This matters because it was used by Gil Jesus as a crutch in an attempt to prove that Scoggins never saw the killer's face, when in fact, Scoggins was crouching beside the cab peeking over the trunk in time to see Oswald flee; even noting that the killer looked to be about 25 or 26 years old and was not wearing glasses.

 

Gil Jesus was grossly incorrect when he stated (earlier in this thread) that J.C. Bowles (the dispatch room supervisor) said that "the clocks in the dispatch room were 2 or 3 minutes off".  When corrected, he admitted that he had (somehow) "misread" what it was exactly that Bowles actually did say.

 

Gil Jesus admitted one mistake.  Why not go all the way and admit both errors?

 

@Sandy Larsen recently placed Pat Speer on a several day mute for posting "false information".  Mr. Larsen stated that " it is against forum rules to post false information".

 

Mr. Larsen, I ask that you, as a Moderator of this forum, address this "false information" posted by Gil Jesus.

Thanks in advance.

 

"I did not threaten to suspend "several people." All I did was notify Pat Spear that he was violating a forum rule and that I would have to penalize him if he didn't correct it." -- Sandy Larsen

 

Edited June 11 by Bill Brown

[Jean Ceulemans]

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

 

@Sandy Larsen recently placed Pat Speer on a several day mute for posting "false information".  Mr. Larsen stated that " it is against forum rules to post false information".

 

Mr. Larsen, I ask that you, as a Moderator of this forum, address this "false information" posted by Gil Jesus.

Thanks in advance.

 

"I did not threaten to suspend "several people." All I did was notify Pat Spear that he was violating a forum rule and that I would have to penalize him if he didn't correct it." -- Sandy Larsen

 

Aaaah, those days... 

I think the forum rules are up for a revision, if all so called lies (some say they are, others say they are not) are to be sanctioned... nope won't work.   If someone is lying, proove he is in a civil debate. Take action when it gets personal, insulting, etc  That should be enough

Now, who is the current active moderator ????

 

 

Edited June 11 by Jean Ceulemans
Typo

[Jonathan Cohen]

2 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

@Sandy Larsen recently placed Pat Speer on a several day mute for posting "false information".  Mr. Larsen stated that " it is against forum rules to post false information".

Mr. Larsen, I ask that you, as a Moderator of this forum, address this "false information" posted by Gil Jesus.

Thanks in advance.

"I did not threaten to suspend "several people." All I did was notify Pat Spear that he was violating a forum rule and that I would have to penalize him if he didn't correct it." -- Sandy Larsen

Bill, by the wondrous grace of God or some other deity, Sandy Larsen is no longer a moderator of this forum.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 6/11/2024 at 4:45 AM, Bill Brown said:

@Gil Jesus posted false information when he made this comment (above) and to date, has not retracted the misinformation.

Mr. Larsen, I ask that you, as a Moderator of this forum, address this "false information" posted by Gil Jesus.

 

Bill,

Yes, it is indeed a violation of forum rules to post false information.

However, last week I learned the hard way that prominent researchers are exempt from the rule. At least Pat Speer is. He did post two lies and he wouldn't correct them, so I penalized him.

The site owner, Jame Gordon, relieved me of my moderator duties as a result. For which Pats bootlickers are pleased.

As I demonstrated with Pat, I don't play favorites. And so I would have done the same for you regardless of the fact that you are an LNer. Had you proven that Gil's information was wrong, and had he refused to correct it, I would have penalized him for the violation.

I don't know if the remaining moderator, Mark Knight, would do the same for you. But just be forewarned that Mark has a hard time distinguishing between "a difference of opinion" and "a difference in truth." Which is also something I found out the hard way.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 6/11/2024 at 4:45 AM, Bill Brown said:

Mr. Larsen, I ask that you, as a Moderator of this forum, address this "false information" posted by Gil Jesus.

 

Bill,

I see that Ron Bulman is now a moderator. (Though not admin like before.)

He might do this for you.

On the other hand, he might be afraid to, after seeing what happened to me.