JFK's Shirt

[Robin Unger]

3 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

Not that my opinion/voice is needed on this, but that's exactly what I noticed.  Maybe this is where a sample was taken to try to find metallic traces that could be tied to the bullet or to match fabric found on the bullet (CE 399).

You may be right Richard, that sounds like plausable theory

[Robin Unger]

4 minutes ago, James R Gordon said:

Robin,

I was not doubting the authenticity of your image. I believe it was a later image - 1980's - 1990s. The reason I point out the differences is that a while ago Gary Murr was kind enough to share his Connally clothing images from the 1990's. Though I found his images important and interesting  through time the fabric damage had changed.

I be;ieve that is what we see in your image.

James

 

Thanks James

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

That's not blood stain spatter. That's a blood stain created as Kennedy sat leaning to his left and then on his back in the limo. It can be presumed that much of that blood came from his head wound. It tells us nothing about the direction of the shot. 

I used the word splatter since it fits with the TV character Horace Rumpole.  Perhaps it is not the right word, but the direction of the blood flow is indicative of the direction of the shot.

[David Von Pein]

13 hours ago, James R Gordon said:

I see DVP has scuttled off the site. I showed him a high quality and rotated image of the back wound and asked him to point out where below the back wound the throat wound was. Below the back entrance wound is the Scapular. Little wonder he fled the scene.

I haven't fled the scene at all. I was just sleeping. (People have to do that every now and then, you know. Give a sleeping person a break, will ya? I was posting here until 5:17 AM EDT this morning.) 🙂

But thanks for that rare Getty image of the shirt, James. It appears to me (based on the photo supplied by James Gordon) that the hole in the back of the shirt is not very far below the level of the cuts (holes) in the front of the shirt (once the front of the shirt is buttoned-up, that is). Which means that if JFK's shirt was elevated just slightly on his back in Dealey Plaza (and we know his jacket WAS elevated via the Croft photo and other photos*), it would mean that the back of the shirt would be RAISED UP slightly during the shooting and, hence, the back wound (and the bullet hole in the shirt too) would be ABOVE the throat wound anatomically.

All it takes is a SLIGHT elevation of the back of the shirt to have the bullet holes line up in a DOWNWARD (back-to-front) orientation.

And even if you want to argue that the "cuts" on the front of the shirt are not really "bullet holes" at all, but instead they are scalpel cuts, well, OK, that's fine too. Because we know that the TRACH wound does double-duty (in a sense), because we know the trach wound is at the exact level of where the bullet hole was located before the Parkland doctors obliterated it. It amounts to the throat wound being located at the level of the "tie knot".

* Awaiting the arrival of Cliff Varnell to inform us all about how impossible it would have been for JFK's tailor-made custom shirt to have become elevated on his back even a fraction of an inch. But the combination of the two photos below most definitely prove Mr. Varnell to be 100% wrong when he makes such a repeated....and repeated....and repeated claim about Kennedy's shirt:

Related Discussion:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2017/04/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1244.html#JFK's-Necktie

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Ron Bulman]

This has all been argued before on other threads.  But what the heck, a new generation should understand the Truth.

A tailored shirt, held in place first by trousers and a belt from the bottom, buttoned snuggly at the neck (ya know how you have to kind of tilt the head back, suck in the throat and twist the button into the buttonhole?), then further secured by a somewhat tightly, crisply knotted tie, does not creep up 3-4-5-6 inches in the back from simply sitting down.  Former president/WC member Gerald Ford admitted he moved the back wound up.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[David Von Pein]

10 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Gerald Ford admitted he moved the back wound up.

~~sigh~~

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/gerald-ford-and-sbt.html

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

~~sigh~~

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/gerald-ford-and-sbt.html

Been a long time crossing the bridge of sighs.

robin trower bridge of sighs lyrics - Search (bing.com)

 

[Cory Santos]

On 7/26/2022 at 4:31 PM, David Von Pein said:

I haven't fled the scene at all. I was just sleeping. (People have to do that every now and then, you know. Give a sleeping person a break, will ya? I was posting here until 5:17 AM EDT this morning.) 🙂

But thanks for that rare Getty image of the shirt, James. It appears to me (based on the photo supplied by James Gordon) that the hole in the back of the shirt is not very far below the level of the cuts (holes) in the front of the shirt (once the front of the shirt is buttoned-up, that is). Which means that if JFK's shirt was elevated just slightly on his back in Dealey Plaza (and we know his jacket WAS elevated via the Croft photo and other photos*), it would mean that the back of the shirt would be RAISED UP slightly during the shooting and, hence, the back wound (and the bullet hole in the shirt too) would be ABOVE the throat wound anatomically.

All it takes is a SLIGHT elevation of the back of the shirt to have the bullet holes line up in a DOWNWARD (back-to-front) orientation.

And even if you want to argue that the "cuts" on the front of the shirt are not really "bullet holes" at all, but instead they are scalpel cuts, well, OK, that's fine too. Because we know that the TRACH wound does double-duty (in a sense), because we know the trach wound is at the exact level of where the bullet hole was located before the Parkland doctors obliterated it. It amounts to the throat wound being located at the level of the "tie knot".

* Awaiting the arrival of Cliff Varnell to inform us all about how impossible it would have been for JFK's tailor-made custom shirt to have become elevated on his back even a fraction of an inch. But the combination of the two photos below most definitely prove Mr. Varnell to be 100% wrong when he makes such a repeated....and repeated....and repeated claim about Kennedy's shirt:

Related Discussion:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2017/04/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1244.html#JFK's-Necktie

 

So I read this and went out to my casita where, under lock and key, Mr Varnell is kept safe.  In between his afternoon and early evening cocktail served by Higgins-my butler- he asked me to post this as his response responding to W. Tracy Parnell:

Impeccable!  Here's Myers, emphasis added:
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl2.htm
The President's clothing confirmed the path of the bullet: a small hole in the back of his suit coat (threads pushed inward) approximately 5.3 inches below the top of the collar and 1.96 inches to the right of the middle seam (7HSCA83), a corresponding hole in the President's shirt located 5.75 inches below the collar and 1.3 inches to the right of the midline (CD205, p.153-54) (photographs taken seconds before the shooting show the suit coat had shifted upward on the President's back, accounting for the discrepancy between the wounds in the body and the holes in the clothing), a slit-like bullet hole in the front of the shirt (threads pushed outward), and a tear on the left side of the tie knot where the exiting bullet grazed the tie knot. (ARRB MD28)

The bullet hole in the shirt is 4" below the bottom of the collar; the defect in the jacket 4 &1/8" below the bottom of the collar. 
The jacket was elevated 1/8".
Elm St photos show JFK with a normal amount of shirt collar visible at the back of his neck, indicating the bottom of the jacket collar was in a normal position just above the base of his neck.
Can Myers or any of the other LN cultists replicate 2+" of shirt and 2+" of jacket elevated entirely above the top of the back without pushing up on the jacket collar right above the base of the neck?
Isn't such a claim utterly, obviously idiotic? 
Anyone afflicted with that degree of confirmation bias is a danger only to themselves.
 
Edited May 7, 2021 by Cliff Varnell

[Cory Santos]

And this:  

He is now asleep.   I gave him his Trump bottle and let him fall asleep to Fox News.   

Edited July 28, 2022 by Cory Santos

[Benjamin Cole]

On 7/26/2022 at 11:13 PM, Richard Price said:

Not that my opinion/voice is needed on this, but that's exactly what I noticed.  Maybe this is where a sample was taken to try to find metallic traces that could be tied to the bullet or to match fabric found on the bullet (CE 399).

I looked in depth at Connally's shirt for some articles I wrote on that...and yes, snippets of cloth were taken from around the JBC rear bullet hole, for testing. 

Side note: The bullet hole in the rear of JFK's shirt, adjusting for cloth removal, is almost exactly the same size at the hole in the rear of JBC's shirt, at 3/8th by 3/8ths inch.

No one even suggests the shot that entered JFK's back "tumbled." 

The small bullet hole in the rear of JBC's shirt strongly suggests a straight shot.

Beyond reasonable doubt, the bullet that struck JBC in his back did not strike him "sideways" as a tumbling bullet might.  We know that from the small roundish hole in his shirt.