Oswald's alibi

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / Oswald's Changing Alibi

Edited October 5, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

Some years ago I believe Gerry Hemming mentioned the TSBD was entered around 3:00 am and the individuals..two likely….remained on the 7th floor and then descended to the 6th floor. After the shooting, they went back up to the 7th and did indeed use ropes and go down the elevator shaft. This ties in with no one hearing an individual descend the stairs and a brief electrical outage in the building. This is from memory. I just don’t have the time or the inclination to verify where/when it was originally posted. 

Nick B.--

Well, could be. 

I have also wondered about the publisher's offices, on the fourth floor of the TSBD, that were evidently never searched after the JFKA. 

On the ropes: After descending the shaft using ropes...what happened to the ropes? That's a long rope. Take it along? No one saw a man with a circled rope under his arm leaving the TSBD....

Is there an interior rebar-type ladder on the shaft walls? 

[Paul Cummings]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

That is a possibility. Seems like a little bit to do though. 

It may be the perps were onto the steps within 10 seconds, and down in another 20 or so.  

Remember, the perps had a plan. The hiding place for the rifle was pre-arranged and en route to the steps. 

The perps planned the shots and then vamoosed pronto. Other people are bewildered, wondering what happened, or even clueless. 

But just IMHO. Maybe they had ropes down the elevator shaft. 

 

 

I'm not sure if they even needed ropes inside the elevator shaft.

[Roger Odisio]

18 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Roger O.--

Determining how LHO got down the stairs, or anybody else, nearly 60 years after the event....

OK, say LHO was not on the sixth floor. Someone was, and probably two people. 

Multiple witnesses saw a barrel-like object extending from the TSBD during the shooting. Many witnesses inside the TSBD say they heard the shots. Some witnesses saw two people on the sixth floor just prior to the JFKA. 

OK, so how did the two real shooters  get down the stairs without anyone seeing them?  What escape plan did they use? 

 

 

The 4th floor women who didn't see or hear Oswald on the steps also didn't see or hear anyone else either.  Your witness accounts don't establish others were there instead.

I'm no authority on all witness testimony, but I don't recall anyone saying they saw a rifle out the window "during the shooting".   There are a bunch of videos showing the BD as the motorcade passed, but  I don't know of any that showed such a thing.  Including some you and I no doubt have not seen.  Don't you think if that existed on film we would know about it?  The cops acknowledged early on they had no witness who could place Oswald on the 6th floor at the time.  That would have helped a lot.

Unless of course the video clearly showed someone other than Oswald with a rifle.  In that case I'll leave it to you to find the evidence and pursue the rest of that story.  In some other thread.

There *were* witnesses who said they saw people in a 6th floor window prior to the shooting.  If true what happened to them?  Did they shoot anyone?

Put this in context.  Early on it was announced all over the media, that Oswald had been caught and was the sixth floor window assassin.  A Marxist who had defected to the Soviet Union.  The whole "investigation" was solely focused on corroborating that assertion.  When witnesses were interviewed it was clear what the cops wanted to hear.  Is it any wonder they found some people willing to give them what they wanted?

 

[Mark Knight]

17 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

...I don't want people to not feel like I'm trying to take over. 

You are succeeding at making people feel like you're trying to take over. [Methinks what you meant was the opposite, but that's not what you said.] But that's simply my personal perception. 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 10/3/2022 at 6:19 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

There is no evidence of higher-ups directing the JFKA, although suspicions are reasonable.

 

Oh contraire... the Mexico City trip with an Oswald imposter visiting the Cuban Consulate, and the CIA-fabricated story of Oswald meeting with KGB assassinations chief Valeriy Kostikov; partying with Cuban Consulate employee Sylvia Duran; and collecting $6500 earnest money for the assassination from a red-haired negro... that is all evidence of the CIA directing the assassination.

I don't know why there are so many people left who ignore the obvious.

 

[Matthew Koch]

2 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

You are succeeding at making people feel like you're trying to take over. [Methinks what you meant was the opposite, but that's not what you said.] But that's simply my personal perception. 

There is a reason I said that as Mark is illustrating ; ) 

[Matthew Koch]

I don't know if this has been said yet, But when I was in Dallas in 2013 I watched an Alan Dale presentation where he got into the stuff in Fritz notes that seems to back up some of what Oswald was telling them. 
https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/hkAgH6gU/oswald-s-alibi-per-fritz

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk/c/RvWb40yPDFo?pli=1

https://www.deseret.com/1997/11/22/19346885/notes-shed-light-on-police-interrogation-of-oswald

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Oh contraire... the Mexico City trip with an Oswald imposter visiting the Cuban Consulate, and the CIA-fabricated story of Oswald meeting with KGB assassinations chief Valeriy Kostikov; partying with Cuban Consulate employee Sylvia Duran; and collecting $6500 earnest money for the assassination from a red-haired negro... that is all evidence of the CIA directing the assassination.

I don't know why there are so many people left who ignore the obvious.

 

LHO did in fact meet with Kostikov. 

IMHO, LHO was a CIA asset.

John Neman and Dan Hardway, serious researchers both, have strongly suggested a biography build was being done on LHO by the CIA, to later patsy him in the JFKA. 

My view is similar, but that the LHO was to participate in a false-flag and failed JFKA attempt. 

IMHO: Even if the CIA was running LHO, and suspicions run high...that is not the same a guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Maybe LHO was being run out of the Miami station of the CIA, and higher ups not involved. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Sandy Larsen]

7 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

LHO did in fact meet with Kostikov.

 

I don't think so, Ben. There is no credible evidence that Oswald was even in Mexico City.

The CIA planted evidence that LHO was in Mexico City. And that he met with Kostikov.

It was a false-flag operation against Cuba and Russia, setting them up as conspiring with Oswald to kill Kennedy. Oswald had no idea and was a patsy, just as he said.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

The 4th floor women who didn't see or hear Oswald on the steps also didn't see or hear anyone else either.  Your witness accounts don't establish others were there instead.

I'm no authority on all witness testimony, but I don't recall anyone saying they saw a rifle out the window "during the shooting".   There are a bunch of videos showing the BD as the motorcade passed, but  I don't know of any that showed such a thing.  Including some you and I no doubt have not seen.  Don't you think if that existed on film we would know about it?  The cops acknowledged early on they had no witness who could place Oswald on the 6th floor at the time.  That would have helped a lot.

Unless of course the video clearly showed someone other than Oswald with a rifle.  In that case I'll leave it to you to find the evidence and pursue the rest of that story.  In some other thread.

There *were* witnesses who said they saw people in a 6th floor window prior to the shooting.  If true what happened to them?  Did they shoot anyone?

Put this in context.  Early on it was announced all over the media, that Oswald had been caught and was the sixth floor window assassin.  A Marxist who had defected to the Soviet Union.  The whole "investigation" was solely focused on corroborating that assertion.  When witnesses were interviewed it was clear what the cops wanted to hear.  Is it any wonder they found some people willing to give them what they wanted?

 

Roger-

Oh sheesh, there are several witnesses who saw a barrel extending from the TSBD during the JFKA, including Amos Euins and Earle Cabell's wife, just to name two off the top of my head. There are also numerous accounts of two people on the sixth floor seen just before the shooting. 

The WC's prime witness Brennan also saw someone in the TSBD's sixth floor corner window, the shooting window. Brennan claimed he saw LHO after much coaching, but likely he just saw a man, no ID.  

Somehow, those people on the sixth floor during the shooting left the building unobserved. 

http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/judith-mccully/

The above contains some conflicted accounts regarding the fourth floor lady, Judy McCully. She may, or may not have, been bullied into changing her testimony. 

At this late date, who knows. 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

17 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I don't think so, Ben. There is no credible evidence that Oswald was even in Mexico City.

The CIA planted evidence that LHO was in Mexico City. And that he met with Kostikov.

It was a false-flag operation against Cuba and Russia, setting them up as conspiring with Oswald to kill Kennedy. Oswald had no idea and was a patsy, just as he said.

 

SL--

Depends on what you mean by credible evidence. 

Kostikov and two associates told Frontline-PBS, and on camera, they had met with LHO in Mexico City. 

Well, you can say, "Kostikov was lying to PBS, and his two associates also." 

Anyway IMHO LHO was in MC and also impersonated while there. 

Fast forward to 1:03 or so....

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Depends on what you mean by credible evidence. 

Kostikov and two associates told Frontline-PBS, and on camera, they had met with LHO in Mexico City.

 

You need to pick your sources carefully. You choose to believe a former KGB agent?

If Oswald was in Mexico City, then why was an imposter taking his place in the Cuban consulate? Why were imposter(s) making phone calls for him? And why did the FBI have to fabricate bus-ride evidence for Oswald to get to and return from MC for the WC cover-up? (As per David Josephs' analysis, published on Ks&K.)

BTW, like you, I also believe Oswald was a CIA asset. As I said, the CIA made it look like Oswald conspired with Cubans and Russians to kill Kennedy. (Even Peter Dale Scott and John Newman say that.) And apparently the Johnson Administration bought it... at least early on! According to James Hosty in his book, he heard from two independent, corroborating sources that, shortly after Oswald's arrest...

...fully armed warplanes were sent screaming toward Cuba. Just before they entered Cuban airspace, they were hastily called back. With the launching of airplanes, the entire U.S. military went on alert.

(The planes were probably called back when it was decided to go with the lone nut story instead.) If what I am saying is wrong, then why did the U.S. immediately dispatch warplanes to Cuba after the assassination?

I don't see any reason to believe Oswald was involved in the assassination at all. He said in his interrogation that he was on the first floor and even went outside during the presidential parade. Why believe any differently?

The only thing I find curious is Oswald's adventure at the theater. I haven't figured that one out.

 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

Oswald was never publicly axked where he was when JFK was shot.  He was asked if he shot the president, he said no.  With no tape recording or stenographer of interrogations, we don't know squat about any alibi he might have provided.  Maybe the most colossal blunder in police investigations ever.  Maybe no one ever was intended to know what Oswald said right from the start.  Fritz notes, cribbed from Bookout's (?), days afterwards?  In the first-floor break-lunch-domino room eating his cheese sandwich with nothing to drink with two black guys he doesn't remember the names of.  Then going up to the 2nd floor for a coke, before the assassination and finally wandering back downstairs and out front with Shelly.  Is that close to what the official story really says that is somewhat corroborated, by a questionable maybe coerced witness?

After did you shoot the president, the ideal next question would have been "Where were you when he was shot?"

Out front on the steps with my boss Bill Shelly and Wes Frazier, my ride into work that morning???

[Ed LeDoux]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

SL--

Depends on what you mean by credible evidence. 

Kostikov and two associates told Frontline-PBS, and on camera, they had met with LHO in Mexico City. 

Well, you can say, "Kostikov was lying to PBS, and his two associates also." 

Anyway IMHO LHO was in MC and also impersonated while there. 

Fast forward to 1:03 or so....

 

 

 

Again not even close to credible.

This is not acceptible evidence of anything but subterfuge.

There would be a number of levers pulled if what is said was true... they were not.

Thanks for proving a negative though.

Cheers, Ed