Bob Tanenbaum and Jim Lesar presentation at Duquesne U. 2013

[James DiEugenio]

If you read the Lopez Report,  the reasons for the indictment are pretty plentiful and, I think, well founded.

 About Phillips, it was on the lie that all the tapes were recycled, when in fact they were not.  And also about the delay in getting the Kostikov tape to HQ. 

Goodpasture started lying the minute they talked to her.  For example, about who picked up the tapes for translation on a daily basis.  She was trying to hide the fact that it was her.  And then about how she screwed up the whole Mystery Man photo and mixed it up with Oswald.

Eddie told me that Goodpasture was pretty close to Phillips.  In that he was flying around to JM/WAVE and Langley, and while he was gone she would keep up his desk, and maintain his operations.

[Gerry Down]

These are all valid points. But the Lopez report was not declassified until the 1990s so I would imagine it would be awkward to bring a perjury charge regarding issues regarding tapes when the procedure around these tapes was classified at the time and the intention was to keep it classified.

That and DAP was not in charge of the tapes so potentially a copy of an Oswald tape could have been in existence at the time of the JFK assassination and DAP would not have known about it. During his HSCA testimony he was simply relaying the procedure regarding the erase of tapes as he (claimed) he understood it in relation to any Oswald tape. The real pressure would have been on Goodpasture as she was handling the tapes and carrying them from point to point but she probably could claim she was not in charge of erasure of tapes and of holding tapes for long periods if the station deemed such a tape to be of importance. The head guy who was in charge of all this was Win Scott. And it was he who had shown the WC the tape. As he was dead by the time of the HSCA I would imagine it would be difficult to make any perjury charge against DAP or Goodpasture stick.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Gerry Down

[James DiEugenio]

Gerry:

The information in the bill of indictment was garnered by Eddie and Danny while they were working on the case.  So it would have been included in the bill whether or not the report was declassified.

According to Eddie, Goodpasture and Phillips were close, and Phillips ran Cuban operations out of Mexico City.  So the information out of the Cuban embassy would go to him.

But also, if you are going to imply that Phillips' knowledge of the photographic units was limited, then how did Phillips know that there would never be a photograph of Oswald in Mexico CIty?  And further "We will find out that Lee Harvey Oswald never visited, let me put it, that is a categorical statement, there,there,  we will find out there is no evidence , first of all there was no proof of that. Second, there is no evidence to show that Lee Harvey Oswald visited the Soviet Embassy." (Mark Lane, Plausible Denial, p. 82)

Clearly, Phillips knew what the inventory contained from both embassies.  

I should add, this information that certifies Oswald was not there--from both pictures and the plants in the Cuban embassy--as far as I know this did not come out until the 2017 ARRB releases. Phillips knew this in 1977.

Edited November 15, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Gerry Down]

19 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I should add, this information that certifies Oswald was not there--from both pictures and the plants in the Cuban embassy--as far as I know this did not come out until the 2017 ARRB releases. Phillips knew this in 1977.

This sounds like a categorical statement that recent releases show that Oswald was not at the Cuban embassy. This can't be true. There has been no official statement that Oswald was not at the Cuban embassy.

As head of the Cuban unit in Mexico City, DAP must have had a photo of LHO going in and out of the Cuban embassy. He must also have known that Oswald made phonecalls. He admitted to the phonecalls but denied tapes had been kept.

Obviously DAP was lying about the photos. There must have been photos. The way he was trying to get out of that was by saying the camera was broken. This was a plausible excuse which I think could have got him out of any perjury charges even though personally I think he was lying about the photos.

I think the HSCA simply thought the perjury charge was not strong enough and so they dropped it on that count rather than any nefarious possibility like the CIA having some back room control over the HSCA.

[Sandy Larsen]

27 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

As head of the Cuban unit in Mexico City, DAP must have had a photo of LHO going in and out of the Cuban embassy.

 

Gerry,

What makes you so sure that DAP must have had a photo of Oswald going into and out of the Cuban embassy? I don't believe that Oswald was even in Mexico City at the time. To me it seems more likely that the Oswald impersonator was planting evidence of the real Oswald being there.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

bump for Gerry

[Jonathan Cohen]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:53 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

I don't believe that Oswald was even in Mexico City at the time. To me it seems more likely that the Oswald impersonator was planting evidence of the real Oswald being there.

And as usual you just wave away the ample evidence that Oswald was physically in Mexico City (which, by the way, does not preclude him also being impersonated on the same trip).

[Gerry Down]

On 11/14/2022 at 2:53 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Gerry,

What makes you so sure that DAP must have had a photo of Oswald going into and out of the Cuban embassy? I don't believe that Oswald was even in Mexico City at the time. To me it seems more likely that the Oswald impersonator was planting evidence of the real Oswald being there.

 

From my own research I have come to the conclusion that LHO was in Mexico City. And it would seem a photo should have been captured of him at the Cuban embassy. Though admittedly Oswald was only at the Cuban embassy one day and therefore technically if the cameras were down for that one day then LHO could have been missed. 

[Sandy Larsen]

8 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

And as usual you just wave away the ample evidence that Oswald was physically in Mexico City (which, by the way, does not preclude him also being impersonated on the same trip).

 

Jonathan,

What's the strongest evidence you can come  up with of Oswald being in Mexico City?

 

[James DiEugenio]

When I said the releases of 2017, this is what I mean.

We now have the actual photo inventory check the CIA made which reads, "Negative."

And we have the two plants in the Cuban embassy who told the CIA Oswald was not there. 

And the CIA actually tried them twice.  No go.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Gerry Down]

31 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

When I said the releases of 2017, this is what I mean.

We now have the actual photo inventory check the CIA mad which reads, "Negative."

And we have the two plants in the Cuban embassy who told the CIA Oswald not there.  And the CIA actually tried them twice.  No go.

 

Do you have a link to the document about the two plants in the cuban embassy? Was 2017 the first time the CIA officially admitted to their existence?

[James DiEugenio]

Gerry, I went thought this ages ago.

And then someone linked to it on this site to another site.  I think it was MFF.  

In 2017 is the first time I saw a document saying the plants were there. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Robin Finn]

  One of the CIA assets in the Cuban embassy/consulate was  Luis Alberu (LITAMIL-9). He met with Bob Shaw(pseudonym Lawrence Barker),a CIA officer working on Cuban operations,soon after the assassination.The other asset  was Consuelo Esperon Perez (LITAMIL-7)

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=3081#relPageId=2

 

[Gerry Down]

40 minutes ago, Robin Finn said:

  One of the CIA assets in the Cuban embassy/consulate was  Luis Alberu (LITAMIL-9). He met with Bob Shaw(pseudonym Lawrence Barker),a CIA officer working on Cuban operations,soon after the assassination.The other asset  was Consuelo Esperon Perez (LITAMIL-7)

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=3081#relPageId=2

 

Big thanks for that. Been looking for ages for these assets though its my own fault as apparently they get mentioned in State Secret which I have not got around to reading yet. They are mentioned in this chapter of State Secret for anyone interesed: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter3.html 

That document you linked to looks like it was released in 1998. I wonder if this was the first time these assets were ever acknowledged publicly? That document is a little difficult to understand. Who is [01] referring to?

[Jonathan Cohen]

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Jonathan,

What's the strongest evidence you can come  up with of Oswald being in Mexico City?

 

There’s plenty. Numerous witnesses saw and/or conversed with him on the bus to and from Mexico City, his visa has both an entrance and exit stamp, he signed the hotel registry where he stayed during the trip, he had passport-sized photos taken while there, he conversed with and is remembered by several staffers at both the Cuban and Russian embassies, and there are no accounts of him being anywhere else during this time. Further, John Newman believes Oswald was there. Do you dispute his research?

Edited November 16, 2022 by Jonathan Cohen