What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)?

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Ridiculous. And neither you or the late David S. Lifton have a single shred of proof to back up the nonsensical statement you just made.

And that's a fact!

 

This is what the CIA's manual on assassination had to say about public assassinations: "Public figures or guarded officials may be killed with great reliability and some safety if a firing point can be established prior to an official occasion. The propaganda value of this system may be high.”

Now, can we prove this was done? No, but a public assassination was recommended...due in part to its "propaganda value." 

[David Von Pein]

15 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

This is what the CIA's manual on assassination had to say about public assassinations: "Public figures or guarded officials may be killed with great reliability and some safety if a firing point can be established prior to an official occasion. The propaganda value of this system may be high.”

Now, can we prove this was done? No, but a public assassination was recommended...due in part to its "propaganda value." 

Does the CIA manual say anything about the "reliability" and "safety" of a "Frame The Patsy" assassination plan which has the designated "patsy" being located nowhere near the "firing point", thus ensuring the plot will be exposed almost immediately?

 

[Matthew Koch]

13 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Does the CIA manual say anything about the "reliability" and "safety" of a "Frame The Patsy" assassination plan which has the designated "patsy" being located nowhere near the "firing point", thus ensuring the plot will be exposed almost immediately?

 

It does say in the CIA manual to have the patsy connect back to the USSR, which Oswald does. 

[Tom Gram]

8 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Does the CIA manual say anything about the "reliability" and "safety" of a "Frame The Patsy" assassination plan which has the designated "patsy" being located nowhere near the "firing point", thus ensuring the plot will be exposed almost immediately?

 

Who said the firing point had to be located away from the patsy? I get that was Lifton’s theory but the CIA manual is pretty provocative either way, IMO. These were some of the smartest guys on the planet whose only job was to engineer scenarios and manipulate people - I think they could have figured out how to murder a President and get away with it. The manual itself isn’t evidence of a CIA plot but it demonstrates that there were people in CIA tasked with optimizing political assassinations, and that’s a little concerning considering everything the agency got away with over the years. 

[Adam Johnson]

Pat, Roger and Others,

After re-watching some of the 2013 interviews......the way I'm understanding DSL's hypothesises is:

An ambulance is placed outside at the trademart entrance..DSL had confirmation on a radio transmission 2 ambulances had reported to the trademart....but plotters may have only been expecting one ambulance?(my own thought).

The plan was Kennedy alone is struck inside the limousine in Dealy Plaza, as they head out of the plaza and overtake the parade lead car.....Someone (emory roberts/forest sorrel/kellerman or maybe greer) suggests get him to the ambulance at the trade made, thats the closest help....he may need oxygen..plasma...whatever.......

They get to a trademart ambulance, Kennedy is placed on a guerney and an oxygen mask is placed over JFK's face/nose/mouth he is put in the ambulance and off to Parkland.......Mrs Kennedy, ODonnell and Powers are separated from Kennedy by doing this which is a bonus.

Arriving at Parkland and due to paramedics assessment on the way there Kennedy can bypasses trauma room one and be taken straight to the 6th floor operating room.

In the 6th floor operating room once its clear JFK is DOA, someone can conduct removal of bullets or wound alterations in private that conform to Oswald alone as single shooter from rear and above.

Once complete JFK can go downstairs to Dallas coroner's department for confirmation of plotters Oswald story.

This i believe is what DSL was suggesting was the original plan.......if I'm on the right track here, yes it would mean a conspirator in the Secret service detail with authority to get limo to Ambulance.......Any suggestions here Vince?(ER?)

It would mean a co-operative paramedic and one or two co-operative operating room surgeon's.......thats it! 

4 people.........where would any of these people receive blow back if they acted the way described above.

Roberts or Sorrels ordering get to ambulance first....maybe but probably not!

Paramedics,  they wouldn't be blamed

OR Surgeon's....if they say clear the room.....ask DPD keep everyone out of this room for the next 15 minutes.....who would see what they were doing....no one.

This is how i have interpreted DSL interview comments regarding this part of the assassination. 

AJ

[Matthew Koch]

17 minutes ago, Adam Johnson said:

Pat, Roger and Others,

After re-watching some of the 2013 interviews......the way I'm understanding DSL's hypothesises is:

An ambulance is placed outside at the trademart entrance..DSL had confirmation on a radio transmission 2 ambulances had reported to the trademart....but plotters may have only been expecting one ambulance?(my own thought).

The plan was Kennedy alone is struck inside the limousine in Dealy Plaza, as they head out of the plaza and overtake the parade lead car.....Someone (emory roberts/forest sorrel/kellerman or maybe greer) suggests get him to the ambulance at the trade made, thats the closest help....he may need oxygen..plasma...whatever.......

They get to a trademart ambulance, Kennedy is placed on a guerney and an oxygen mask is placed over JFK's face/nose/mouth he is put in the ambulance and off to Parkland.......Mrs Kennedy, ODonnell and Powers are separated from Kennedy by doing this which is a bonus.

Arriving at Parkland and due to paramedics assessment on the way there Kennedy can bypasses trauma room one and be taken straight to the 6th floor operating room.

In the 6th floor operating room once its clear JFK is DOA, someone can conduct removal of bullets or wound alterations in private that conform to Oswald alone as single shooter from rear and above.

Once complete JFK can go downstairs to Dallas coroner's department for confirmation of plotters Oswald story.

This i believe is what DSL was suggesting was the original plan.......if I'm on the right track here, yes it would mean a conspirator in the Secret service detail with authority to get limo to Ambulance.......Any suggestions here Vince?(ER?)

It would mean a co-operative paramedic and one or two co-operative operating room surgeon's.......thats it! 

4 people.........where would any of these people receive blow back if they acted the way described above.

Roberts or Sorrels ordering get to ambulance first....maybe but probably not!

Paramedics,  they wouldn't be blamed

OR Surgeon's....if they say clear the room.....ask DPD keep everyone out of this room for the next 15 minutes.....who would see what they were doing....no one.

This is how i have interpreted DSL interview comments regarding this part of the assassination. 

AJ

DSL was doing something similar to what this guy on his channel does, and he goes back and looks at Newspaper reports and dispatch to try to piece what really happened before the coverup begins. 
 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Matthew Koch

[Guest]

On 12/12/2022 at 9:32 PM, Pat Speer said:

This is what the CIA's manual on assassination had to say about public assassinations: "Public figures or guarded officials may be killed with great reliability and some safety if a firing point can be established prior to an official occasion. The propaganda value of this system may be high.”

Now, can we prove this was done? No, but a public assassination was recommended...due in part to its "propaganda value." 

Bye

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Guest]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:06 PM, Matthew Koch said:

It does say in the CIA manual to have the patsy connect back to the USSR, which Oswald does. 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Matthew Koch]

21 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

You'll have to steer us to that portion because I see nothing to that effect.

Here is what it actually says about "The Assassin" -

In safe assassinations, the assassin needs the usual qualities of a clandestine agent. He should be determined, courageous, intelligent, resourceful, and physically active. If special equipment is to be used, such as firearms or drugs, it is clear that he must have outstanding skill with such equipment.

Except in terroristic assassinations, it is desirable that the assassin be transient in the area. He should have an absolute minimum of contact with the rest of the organization and his instructions should be given orally by one person only. His safe evacuation after the act is absolutely essential, but here again contact should be as limited as possible. It is preferable that the person issuing instructions also conduct any withdrawal or covering action which may be necessary.

In lost assassination, the assassin must be a fanatic of some sort. Politics, religion, and revenge are about the only feasible motives. Since a fanatic is unstable psychologically, he must be handled with extreme care. He must not know the identities of the other members of the organization, for although it is intended that he die in the act, something may go wrong. While the Assassin of Trotsky has never revealed any significant information, it was unsound to depend on this when the act was planned.

I'm referencing Staff D and ZR RIFLE: 

 

 

Project ZRRIFLE

1. Identification: The purpose of Project ZRRIFLE is to spot, develop and use foreign agent assets for Division D operations. Agents will be spotted in several areas, Including the United States, but for operational security reasons will probably not be used In their countries of residence. Present developmental activity Is being conducted in the WE and EE areas, but it is anticipated that this will be extended to other division areas. The project will be operated against third country installations and personnel.

2 Objectives: The objective of this project Is the procurement of code and cipher materials and information concerning such materials, in accordance with requirements levied on the Clandestine Services, primarily by the National Security Agency. Since these requirements are subject to frequent revision, no listing of targets would be valid for the duration of the project. Specific operations will be mounted on the basis of need and opportunity. The project will be conducted by Division D with assistance from area divisions and stations as needed.

3. Background: In response to the increasing requirements for the operational procurement of foreign code and cipher materials, Division D in 1960 began the spotting of (words are illegible) as a developmental activity. During the same period, requirements from NSA became more refined and in many respects, more sensitive. Because most (overseas) stations are not equipped to conduct this type of operation and because of the desirability of completely centralized control over this entire effort, it was determined that Division D, which is in closest touch with NSA on procurement requirements, could conduct the activity. The spotting activity has now advanced far enough to justify removing from the [explor­atory) category.

4. Operational Assets: I) Personnel: QIWIN is under written contract as a principal agent, with the primary task of spotting agent candidates. QJWIN was first contacted in [nearly two lines heavily redacted] In connection with an illegal narcotics operation into the United States, For a period of a year and a half, he was contacted sporadically by Luxembourg, on behalf of the Bureau of Narcotics. Files of the Bureau reflect an excellent performance by QJWIN In October 1960, [page ends abruptly and is not followed by a se­quential sentence.]

The next page In the Harvey papers is the ZRRIFLE budget

QJWIN annual salary           $7,200

Travel and ops expenses for QJWIN and other agents

and agent candidates          2,000 
Fees for services by and standby of agents and agent-

candidates 2,000 
Travel of staff employees engaged in ZRRIFLE activity

[i.e.. Bill Harvey]    2,500 
Hire of safehouses, automobiles, and other operational

expenses   I .000 

14,700

pay_for_agents on completion 0f Jobs?" (Emphasis added) –P.154

The document was originally stamped, "Reproduction prohibited": one version is stamped, "Approved for release 28 Aug 1985; the other version is stamped, "Approved for release CIA Historical Review Program 1993." How the notes came into the possession of CG Harvey remains a mystery.

I) Legal, ethical-moral, operational problems; political; non­attributab ility.

2)               Our own experience (Bangkok) (& effect on DDP) and experi­ences w/ KGB (Crossup, Bandera group, Khokhlov [i.e., KGB assassi­nation operations])—require most professional, proven operationally competent, ruthless, stable [could also be "sterile," as in securely compartmented], CE-experienced ops officers (few available), able to conduct patient search & w/ guts to pull back if instinct or knowl­edge tells him he should, and w/ known high regard for opera­tional security, assessment and [illegible].

3)               Maximum securiry: (highest not secure enough) & within KUBARK [CIA] only (e.g., how much does Siragusa [the senior Bu­reau of Narcotics official for whose needs Q]WIN had originally been recruited] need to know?) Limitation on number code clerks for enciphering and deciphering. Guise of [illegible] objective, No approach to other Govt agencies.

b.               Within Kubark, one focal point for control, search, training, case officering, etc. DDP authority in this focal point mandatory. DCI officially advised?

c.                Max. security cable commo for innocuous cables only; no restric­tions on travel: possibility of one-man overseas (Europe) control base with own (non-Station) commo—word-of-mouth & no bashfulness re trips.

d.               (Every operation to be rigidly case-officered. No silk-shirt PA's [principle agents]) No PA's except for search or intermediaries... .

e.               No approach to officials of foreign guns. (Non-attributabillty; no American citizen or American resident for direct action. Possi­bly for approach to foreign elements.) No criminal who tainted by use by another American agency. Use of case officers who can pass as foreigners—and limited official reference. No chain of con­nection permitting blackmail. Don't I ] any H as home territory. Avoid discussion with foreign officials until all possibility of search through ( I has been examined.

f.                1. No approach to any agent who ever [worked for] a U.S. Govt agency. Training by opposition would reveal.

g.               Use of already tested assets (e.g. [blanked-out—probably QJWIND In the search.

h.               Stand-by list of Kubarkers [CIA staff members] who can pass as foreigners.

i.                Pretext: Kutube/D [FI/D] search, this established (e.g. Rome) [Note: It is Interesting that Germany is not listed specifically as a recruiting ground; it could and should have provided a consider. able pool of potential break-and-enter crooks, and/or assassins of various, even Indeterminate, nationalities. Perhaps for that very reason, and because of the large American presence there, it was excluded as too obvious a source.]

j.                No discussion In [CIA] stations.

k.               K No "team" until ready to go, if at all

l.                4. Blackmail:

m.              a, I& American citizens or residents or people who ever obtained U.S. visas.

n.               No chain of knowledgeable [?—sic]. Strictly person-to-person; singleton ops.

o.               No meeting any candidate in home territory.

p.               Exclude organized criminals, e.g. Sicilians, criminals, those w/ record of arrests, those w/ instability of purpose as criminals.

q.               Staffers involved—selection.

r.                5. Cover: planning should include provision for blaming Sovs or Czechs in case of blow organization criminals, those with record of arrests, those who have engaged in several types of crime. Corsicans  recommended Sicilians could lead to Mafia.

s.                6. Testing of nominees essential: re following directions, secu­rity, blackmail,

t.                7. Former resistance personnel a possibility. Period of testing, surveillance, etc, for each selection. All Kubark personnel should have some CE experience.

u.               8. Use nobs* who has never dealt w/ criminals; otherwise will not be aware of pitfalls or consider factors such as freedom to travel, wanted lists, etc.

v.        Should have phony 201 [personnel file] in RI [Central Regis­_try] fo backstop this. All documents therein forged and backdated. Should look like a CE file.

w.        Possible use of defectors for these actions.

x.        Silverthorne and stable in [sic—?]

What are limits on team or individuals selected? No 'team" until ready to go.

Danger of standbys.

Keeping of files's [Emphasis added.]

[Guest]

On 12/13/2022 at 12:05 PM, Matthew Koch said:

I'm referencing Staff D and ZR RIFLE: 

 

 

 

Project ZRRIFLE

1. Identification: The purpose of Project ZRRIFLE is to spot, develop and use foreign agent assets for Division D operations. Agents will be spotted in several areas, Including the United States, but for operational security reasons will probably not be used In their countries of residence. Present developmental activity Is being conducted in the WE and EE areas, but it is anticipated that this will be extended to other division areas. The project will be operated against third country installations and personnel.

2 Objectives: The objective of this project Is the procurement of code and cipher materials and information concerning such materials, in accordance with requirements levied on the Clandestine Services, primarily by the National Security Agency. Since these requirements are subject to frequent revision, no listing of targets would be valid for the duration of the project. Specific operations will be mounted on the basis of need and opportunity. The project will be conducted by Division D with assistance from area divisions and stations as needed.

3. Background: In response to the increasing requirements for the operational procurement of foreign code and cipher materials, Division D in 1960 began the spotting of (words are illegible) as a developmental activity. During the same period, requirements from NSA became more refined and in many respects, more sensitive. Because most (overseas) stations are not equipped to conduct this type of operation and because of the desirability of completely centralized control over this entire effort, it was determined that Division D, which is in closest touch with NSA on procurement requirements, could conduct the activity. The spotting activity has now advanced far enough to justify removing from the [explor­atory) category.

4. Operational Assets: I) Personnel: QIWIN is under written contract as a principal agent, with the primary task of spotting agent candidates. QJWIN was first contacted in [nearly two lines heavily redacted] In connection with an illegal narcotics operation into the United States, For a period of a year and a half, he was contacted sporadically by Luxembourg, on behalf of the Bureau of Narcotics. Files of the Bureau reflect an excellent performance by QJWIN In October 1960, [page ends abruptly and is not followed by a se­quential sentence.]

The next page In the Harvey papers is the ZRRIFLE budget

QJWIN annual salary           $7,200

Travel and ops expenses for QJWIN and other agents

and agent candidates          2,000 
Fees for services by and standby of agents and agent-

candidates 2,000 
Travel of staff employees engaged in ZRRIFLE activity

[i.e.. Bill Harvey]    2,500 
Hire of safehouses, automobiles, and other operational

expenses   I .000 

14,700

pay_for_agents on completion 0f Jobs?" (Emphasis added) –P.154

The document was originally stamped, "Reproduction prohibited": one version is stamped, "Approved for release 28 Aug 1985; the other version is stamped, "Approved for release CIA Historical Review Program 1993." How the notes came into the possession of CG Harvey remains a mystery.

I) Legal, ethical-moral, operational problems; political; non­attributab ility.

2)               Our own experience (Bangkok) (& effect on DDP) and experi­ences w/ KGB (Crossup, Bandera group, Khokhlov [i.e., KGB assassi­nation operations])—require most professional, proven operationally competent, ruthless, stable [could also be "sterile," as in securely compartmented], CE-experienced ops officers (few available), able to conduct patient search & w/ guts to pull back if instinct or knowl­edge tells him he should, and w/ known high regard for opera­tional security, assessment and [illegible].

3)               Maximum securiry: (highest not secure enough) & within KUBARK [CIA] only (e.g., how much does Siragusa [the senior Bu­reau of Narcotics official for whose needs Q]WIN had originally been recruited] need to know?) Limitation on number code clerks for enciphering and deciphering. Guise of [illegible] objective, No approach to other Govt agencies.

b.               Within Kubark, one focal point for control, search, training, case officering, etc. DDP authority in this focal point mandatory. DCI officially advised?

c.                Max. security cable commo for innocuous cables only; no restric­tions on travel: possibility of one-man overseas (Europe) control base with own (non-Station) commo—word-of-mouth & no bashfulness re trips.

d.               (Every operation to be rigidly case-officered. No silk-shirt PA's [principle agents]) No PA's except for search or intermediaries... .

e.               No approach to officials of foreign guns. (Non-attributabillty; no American citizen or American resident for direct action. Possi­bly for approach to foreign elements.) No criminal who tainted by use by another American agency. Use of case officers who can pass as foreigners—and limited official reference. No chain of con­nection permitting blackmail. Don't I ] any H as home territory. Avoid discussion with foreign officials until all possibility of search through ( I has been examined.

f.                1. No approach to any agent who ever [worked for] a U.S. Govt agency. Training by opposition would reveal.

g.               Use of already tested assets (e.g. [blanked-out—probably QJWIND In the search.

h.               Stand-by list of Kubarkers [CIA staff members] who can pass as foreigners.

i.                Pretext: Kutube/D [FI/D] search, this established (e.g. Rome) [Note: It is Interesting that Germany is not listed specifically as a recruiting ground; it could and should have provided a consider. able pool of potential break-and-enter crooks, and/or assassins of various, even Indeterminate, nationalities. Perhaps for that very reason, and because of the large American presence there, it was excluded as too obvious a source.]

j.                No discussion In [CIA] stations.

k.               K No "team" until ready to go, if at all

l.                4. Blackmail:

m.              a, I& American citizens or residents or people who ever obtained U.S. visas.

n.               No chain of knowledgeable [?—sic]. Strictly person-to-person; singleton ops.

o.               No meeting any candidate in home territory.

p.               Exclude organized criminals, e.g. Sicilians, criminals, those w/ record of arrests, those w/ instability of purpose as criminals.

q.               Staffers involved—selection.

r.                5. Cover: planning should include provision for blaming Sovs or Czechs in case of blow organization criminals, those with record of arrests, those who have engaged in several types of crime. Corsicans  recommended Sicilians could lead to Mafia.

s.                6. Testing of nominees essential: re following directions, secu­rity, blackmail,

t.                7. Former resistance personnel a possibility. Period of testing, surveillance, etc, for each selection. All Kubark personnel should have some CE experience.

u.               8. Use nobs* who has never dealt w/ criminals; otherwise will not be aware of pitfalls or consider factors such as freedom to travel, wanted lists, etc.

v.        Should have phony 201 [personnel file] in RI [Central Regis­_try] fo backstop this. All documents therein forged and backdated. Should look like a CE file.

w.        Possible use of defectors for these actions.

x.        Silverthorne and stable in [sic—?]

What are limits on team or individuals selected? No 'team" until ready to go.

Danger of standbys.

Keeping of files's [Emphasis added.]

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Roger Odisio]

3 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

Pat, Roger and Others,

After re-watching some of the 2013 interviews......the way I'm understanding DSL's hypothesises is:

An ambulance is placed outside at the trademart entrance..DSL had confirmation on a radio transmission 2 ambulances had reported to the trademart....but plotters may have only been expecting one ambulance?(my own thought).

The plan was Kennedy alone is struck inside the limousine in Dealy Plaza, as they head out of the plaza and overtake the parade lead car.....Someone (emory roberts/forest sorrel/kellerman or maybe greer) suggests get him to the ambulance at the trade made, thats the closest help....he may need oxygen..plasma...whatever.......

They get to a trademart ambulance, Kennedy is placed on a guerney and an oxygen mask is placed over JFK's face/nose/mouth he is put in the ambulance and off to Parkland.......Mrs Kennedy, ODonnell and Powers are separated from Kennedy by doing this which is a bonus.

Arriving at Parkland and due to paramedics assessment on the way there Kennedy can bypasses trauma room one and be taken straight to the 6th floor operating room.

In the 6th floor operating room once its clear JFK is DOA, someone can conduct removal of bullets or wound alterations in private that conform to Oswald alone as single shooter from rear and above.

Once complete JFK can go downstairs to Dallas coroner's department for confirmation of plotters Oswald story.

This i believe is what DSL was suggesting was the original plan.......if I'm on the right track here, yes it would mean a conspirator in the Secret service detail with authority to get limo to Ambulance.......Any suggestions here Vince?(ER?)

It would mean a co-operative paramedic and one or two co-operative operating room surgeon's.......thats it! 

4 people.........where would any of these people receive blow back if they acted the way described above.

Roberts or Sorrels ordering get to ambulance first....maybe but probably not!

Paramedics,  they wouldn't be blamed

o everyone out of this room for the next 15 minutes.....who would see what they were doing....no one.

This is how i have interpreted DSL interview comments regarding this part of the assassination. 

AJ

I think you've got the essentials of the original plan as DSL understood it.  I'd make one change.  Separating JFK's body from Jackie and the others wasn't a bonus of switching the body to an ambulance.  It was the main purpose.  The ambulance would take off with sirens and rush to Parkland.  Jackie would follow in the car.  When she got there JFK would already be on his way to the 6th floor operating room for evidence altering while the story was put out that they were trying to save his life.  Jackie would be escorted to a waiting room.

One thing I haven't seen Lifton talk about as yet is what foiled the ambulance plan if the ambulance was already at the Trade Mart?  Can anyone fill that in?

As to who was involved in the original plan, start with Lifton's assertion that Parkland was "set up" to handle JFK, despite the fact that another hospital was closer to the scene.   That setup had to have involved the participation of some Parkland personnel.

Focus on the Parkland doctors as major participants.  If Clint Hill said that at the scene it was clear JFK was already dead, or likewise the guy who opened the box at Bethesda who claimed that JFK's brain was virtually all gone, then the Parkland doctor's must have known that as well.  The story of what they did has to be false.  They couldn't do any wound altering with Jackie sitting there.  Which required the decision to snatch the body back to Washington where the work could be done.

One thing to keep in mind is the ability of the perps to get cooperation and acquiescence of the people necessary to carry out their plan.  They had many ways.

 

 

 

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

I'm aware of the provenance of this unsigned and undated "manual," "A Study of Assassination"-Transcription (gwu.edu), but it reads like a Saturday Night Live parody of a CIA manual:

"But assassination can seldom be employed with a clear conscience. Persons who are morally squeamish should not attempt it."

"A hammer, axe, wrench, screwdriver, fire poker, kitchen knife, lamp stand, or anything hard, heavy and handy will suffice."

It seems to be quoted only on JFK assassination conspiracy sites. The language is curiously free of any reference to "the agency" or anything that would tie it to the CIA.

Yes, it was released by the CIA in response to an FOIA request and was "Among the documents found in the training files of Operation PBSUCCESS," CIA and Assassinations: The Guatemala 1954 Documents (gwu.edu), but do we have any reason to believe this was generated by the CIA or had any circulation within the agency? (For those like me who know nothing about Operation PBSUCCESS, it was a 1954 coup in Guatemala orchestrated by the CIA, 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état - Wikipedia.)

My recollection is that it was written by the CIA and provided the soldiers recruited to overthrow Arbenz. The presumed authors (the soldiers doing the training) were Rip Robertson and David Morales. And the propaganda officer--who may or may not have been consulted on the bit about propaganda--was E. Howard Hunt. 

We know, moreover, that the segment on silenced weapons was observed. Among the papers for PB success was an invoice for some .22 caliber rifles--which would serve little military purpose beyond that they could more easily be silenced for the purposes of assassination. 

[Ron Bulman]

I've already said I highly respect David Lifton for Best Evidence as well as his confrontation of Allen Dulles.  But also, since his passing, things like seeing the black blob over the wound on the back of the head in the z-film and finding out about optical printers' capabilities in the early 60's, in the later 60's.  Several other things.

But I cannot yet wrap my head around Ready running up to the car and diving in, the Connally - Ready fight/shooting, The stop under/past the triple overpass, Landis pushing Greer out of the way to drive to Parkland (???). 

I wonder if he's not now grinning down on us all, for wondering.  RIP DSL.

[David Andrews]

William Weston - who is a member here - has written at least one article positing a backup assassination attempt laid for the limo on the non-highway portion of the route to the Trade Mart.  I'm taxed for time so I can't link.  Weston's work might be read against Lifton's for a picture of activities west of Dealey.

Edited December 15, 2022 by David Andrews

[Michael Griffith]

David Lifton uncovered a great deal of crucial evidence, and for that alone he deserves great praise. I think Doug Horne has the better of the argument regarding when the pre-autopsy surgery was done, but Lifton deserves high praise for making the first case for pre-autopsy tampering. Lifton also merits high praise for developing the evidence of a casket switch, of multiple caskets, and of a decoy ambulance.