The Abuse of JFK Research by the far right and far left.

[James DiEugenio]

54 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

False equivalence, Simon. 

I would say by a little bit maybe?

So Carlson would have said, on the NIght of the Long Knives: Uncle Adolf kill about 1600 more!!

So Carlson would have us sit by and watch six million people be incinerated over their religion or the fact they were gypsies, or the fact they were mentally afflicted or terminally ill?

Carlson would have us sit by and watch as the Germans rolled over the Netherlands, Denmark, parts of Scandinavia, and then begun an invasion of  France.

Carlson would then have us sit by and cheer as the Germans defeated France and took the country in six weeks.

Carlson would then egg on the German Luftwaffe as it conducted  an air war over England.

Carlson would then have congratulated the French and English as they signed a treaty with Hitler and Mussolini at Munich to take over the Sudetenland and then Tucker would have applauded as the Germans then took over the rest of Czechoslovakia.

Carlson then would have shouted yippee as the National Socialists then rolled over Poland in six weeks.

SImon, with you saying JFK was one of the ruling class, and now saying this load of malarkey I think its safe to say the Culture Wars have gotten the best of you.

Carlson is not Hitler, in fact he is not  Goebbels either.

And for you to say that shows either a real lack of knowledge and sensitivity about what the Third Reich really was or you are a leftwing provocateur.

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Simon Andrew]

4 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I would say by a little bit maybe?

So Carlson would have said, on the NIght of the Long Knives, uncle Adolf kill about 1600 more!!

So Carlson would have us sit by and watch six million people be incinerated over their religion or the fact they were gypsies, or the fact they were mentally afflicted or terminally ill?

Carlson would have us sit by and watch as the National Socialists rolled over the Netherlands, Denmark, parts of Scandinavia, and then begun an invasion of  France.

Carlson would then have us sit by and cheer as the Germans defeated France and took the country in six weeks.

Carlson would then egg on the German Luftwaffe as it conducted  an air war over England.

Carlson would then have congratulated the French and English as they signed a treaty with Hitler and Mussolini at Munich to take over the Sudetenland and then Tucker would have applauded as the National Socialists then took over the rest of Czechoslovakia.

Carlson then would have shouted yippee as the National Socialists then rolled over Poland in six weeks.

SImon, with you saying JFK was one of the ruling class, and now saying this load of malarkey I think its safe to say the Culture Wars have gotten the best of you.

Carlson is not Hitler, in fact he is not  Goebbels either.

And for you to say that shows either a real lack of knowledge and sensitivity about what the Third Reich really was or you are a leftwing provocateur.

 

 Sorry this is a daft load of nonsense.

If you wanna get cosy with Carlson feel free.

As for left wing provocateur nope. My wife is black and my kids mixed and I loathe that racist Carlson. So this is not culture wars based - it’s human and real.

Having followed your work for many years it comes as something of a disappointment that you cannot see through what Carlson is doing.

[Kirk Gallaway]

3 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

So suspend your disbelief on Tucker about the JFK assassination. if you continue to question his motivations after my two explanations, then i will consider you are so politically biased, stubborn or close-minded to understand how the ground is changing beneath our feet on this topic

I want to focus on what you said here Larry. We're all hoping for your success. I do find your tone a little sanctimonious. By the confidence in this statement  you're obviously assuming there's no reason for us to think you couldn't be fooled, and nothing may come from this, which is comforting. 

I don't think you have to be a political partisan to question Carlson's motives at all.

1)Do you have any experience watching Carlson's show that you've formed any previous opinion? I won't ask you that opinion.

Larry: What I can say is that Tucker's two shows were an important next step to get Congressional attention on the failure of two presidents and the intelligence agencies to comply with the law. 

2)You've shared some of this with us, a  new committee head coming in that will be more favorable. And we're assuming Tucker's story is critical to changing the equation in the fight to release the remaining files. So am I to assume you believe Tucker's story that there are remaining "smoking gun" files that were  never destroyed and Tucker knows of a source who has seen the files and now "believes" that the CIA is behind the murder of JFK?

******

Simon probably shouldn't have used any analogy involving Hitler, as that throws things a bit of whack. But let's try to stick to facts.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Simon Andrew said:

 Sorry this is a daft load of nonsense.

If you wanna get cosy with Carlson feel free.

As for left wing provocateur nope. My wife is black and my kids mixed and I loathe that racist Carlson. So this is not culture wars based - it’s human and real.

Having followed your work for many years it comes as something of a disappointment that you cannot see through what Carlson is doing.

And my wife is Thai. So what? My sister married a Han Chinese. Does that make me a hero? 

The "racist" label has been so liberally applied as to become become meaningless. 

My conclusions are that globalism has failed the American middle and employee classes badly. 

Cheap labor and imports have benefitted the multinationals (while destroying the employee class), and three fantastically expensive wars (Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan) in support of the multinationalist globalist empire have proven the insanity of the ruling class.

Adding insult to injury, now the ruling class says CCP-communism is wonderful, let's do boatloads of business with authoritarian-communist Beijing! 

Apple, Disney, NBC-Universal, the NBA, BlackRock, Microsoft, Tesla, Berkshire Hathaway, WalMart, Wall Street and Silicon Valley...have obligations to shareholders (and the CCP) that easily trump loyalty to mere nations or principles. They run your foreign policy. 

Tucker Carlson makes a lot of good points in this regard. The corporatist media dares not utter a serious peep. 

Do you know Jimmy Lai, pro-democracy Hong Kong publisher, is still in prison?

Lai is not lionized in center-left US media, although he should be. Why is that? 

BTW, I am against racism too. Thankfully, most people are. You need a better argument than  that. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[James DiEugenio]

This is what Simon said:

Saying that you don’t watch Carlson normally is like saying it’s OK to sit down with Hitler because you haven’t read Mein Kampf.

If that is not making a comparison, what is it?

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

3 hours ago, Simon Andrew said:

Carlson is only interested because he thinks the CIA stuffed Trump, not because of what JFK stood for.

3 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

I agree . He's trying to leverage the JFKA and it's controversy into an analogy to the reaction of Trump's clearly criminal behavior. It fits a narrative he's spooling out in the face overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It's been partially effective on the political right - probably more than it should have been.

 

I don't know if this is true or not, but it certainly makes sense.

Naturally I hope it's wrong. It would be great to see some good from Larry's discussions with Tucker's team.

 

[James Wilkinson]

14 hours ago, Simon Andrew said:

The idea that JFK was some kind of class warrior is laughable.

Not laughable to business elites who felt betrayed as a class by the Kennedys' hardball tactics in April '62 that backed steel companies off a price increase that they'd just broken a promise to avoid so as to avert a strike.

Henry Luce's Fortune responded by running an unsigned, inflammatory editorial headlined: "Steel: The Ides of April."

Schlesinger quoted JFK in A Thousand Days: "I understand every day how Roosevelt, who started out such a mild fellow, ended up so ferociously anti-business. It is hard as hell to be friendly with people who keep trying to cut your legs off."

JFK spoke before a friendly UAW convention that May: "Last week, after speaking to the Chamber of Commerce... I began to wonder how I got elected. And now I remember."

Elites had called his father "the Judas of Wall Street" for using his insider knowledge as the first SEC head to more effectively crack down on profiteering. In the midst of the steel crisis, JFK was quoted in the 4/23/62 NYT: "My father always told me that all businessmen were sons of bitches, but I never believed it until now."

Joseph Sr.'s son may not have been roundly tagged as a class traitor in '61, but that perception was widespread the following year among those whose class empowered them to issue such decrees.

Let me know if you're still laughing and I can point to additional examples cited in chapter 4 of Douglass's book. You're the one who went with the vague qualifier "some kind."

[Tom Gram]

7 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I don't know if this is true or not, but it certainly makes sense.

Naturally I hope it's wrong. It would be great to see some good from Larry's discussions with Tucker's team.

 

Right after Carlson said the CIA killed JFK he said something about the CIA being able to influence the results of elections, which seemed to me like a pretty obvious reference to Trump’s allegations of election fraud. 

Does Carlson have a political agenda? Sure, but if he continues to advocate for government transparency and the added exposure to the JFKA helps us get new oversight hearings and improved access to assassination records I’m all for it.  We’ve got redacted records, withheld records, missing records, records being deliberately kept out of the ARC including films of Dealey Plaza, etc. etc. etc. Our only hope of ever seeing that stuff is if we get some big-time political support, and Carlson at least seems like he wants to help. 

Carlson’s gonna do whatever the hell he wants to do. I say we play this by ear and take Larry’s word for it that Carlson’s support will legitimately help the fight to get access to more records until proven otherwise. If it’s all a set-up or some crap and Carlson is intentionally exaggerating what’s in the remaining files to discredit JFK research, as some here have alleged, so what? It’s not like we can write this guy’s scripts for him, and if we can leverage his support and momentum to get new records added to the ARC, withheld records released, and overall get a better understanding of history I’d say it’s worth the baggage. 

[James DiEugenio]

19 minutes ago, James Wilkinson said:

Not laughable to business elites who felt betrayed as a class by the Kennedys' hardball tactics in April '62 that backed steel companies off a price increase that they'd just broken a promise to avoid so as to avert a strike.

Henry Luce's Fortune responded by running an unsigned, inflammatory editorial headlined: "Steel: The Ides of April."

Schlesinger quoted JFK in A Thousand Days: "I understand every day how Roosevelt, who started out such a mild fellow, ended up so ferociously anti-business. It is hard as hell to be friendly with people who keep trying to cut your legs off."

JFK spoke before a friendly UAW convention that May: "Last week, after speaking to the Chamber of Commerce... I began to wonder how I got elected. And now I remember."

Elites had called his father "the Judas of Wall Street" for using his insider knowledge as the first SEC head to more effectively crack down on profiteering. In the midst of the steel crisis, JFK was quoted in the 4/23/62 NYT: "My father always told me that all businessmen were sons of bitches, but I never believed it until now."

Joseph Sr.'s son may not have been roundly tagged as a class traitor in '61, but that perception was widespread the following year among those whose class empowered them to issue such decrees.

Let me know if you're still laughing and I can point to additional examples cited in chapter 4 of Douglass's book. You're the one who went with the vague qualifier "some kind."

Nice one James. That  gets forgotten.

[James DiEugenio]

Please, if you get a wave, you ride it.

You don't say, "Hey where did that come from?"

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Lawrence Schnapf]

Simon- I'm not saying that Tucker " just wants to get back at the CIA as he thinks they stopped Trump and his white nationalist agenda". Again, that is you being unable to turn off your partisan bias but I can certainly understand why you might be inclined to believe that his is only motivation.

A good majority of the early doubters in the lone gunman theory believed it was the CIA/military complex who was behind the assassination. These early doubters were principally liberals who believed JFK was taken down as part of some noble battle to change the direction of the foreign policy of this country as well as his support of civil rights. These beliefs were intensified by Vietnam, Watergate and the findings of the Church Committee.

Lately, the tables have been reversed and it is now the liberals who seem to be supporting the FBI and CIA because they are the parts of the federal government that did not bend to the will of Trump while conservatives are now re-assessing their prior support for those agencies. 
 

Tucker is genuinely interested in the assassination of JFK. There is alot of stuff going on right now behind the scenes that I am not allowed to publicly discuss at this time but these things would not be happening if Tucker was just interested in getting back at the CIA. 

 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

Tom Gran- it seem that you are repeating Jeff Morley's line in JFK Facts CIA influencing elections which he then used to question Tucker's credibility. But as I mentioned in my reply to Jeff's blog, Jeff was misconstruing Tucker's comments. 

Tucker was not saying that the CIA directly interfered with the electoral process but that the CIA like other parts of the permanent federal bureaucracy often frustrate the efforts of presidents to carry out their policies where the agency permanent leadership disagrees with the policy direction.  There are so many ways to slow walk policy changes.

Indeed,  had an interesting conversation with Matt Whitaker, the last acting attorney general under Trump, while we were sitting in the green room waiting to speak on the Kennedy show on Fox Business Network. I asked him about the level of resistance that they encountered at certain agencies and why it was really hard for any president to push through their agenda.  It was a fascinating peek into the distribution of power in the federal governent. But I digress 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I don't know if this is true or not, but it certainly makes sense.

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

Right after Carlson said the CIA killed JFK he said something about the CIA being able to influence the results of elections, which seemed to me like a pretty obvious reference to Trump’s allegations of election fraud.

 

Right. That is exactly Simon Andrew's point when he said, "Carlson is only interested because he thinks the CIA stuffed Trump, ...."  The CIA "stuffed" Trump by making him lose the election.

 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

Kirk Galloway,

thanks for your questions.  Sorry for sounding sanctimonious. I am excited by what looks like an opening we have been waiting for years and when I take on a task, I proceed with confidence. I'm also very tactical so I will work with people i otherwise dont have much in common where we agree on a common goal.    

As to your first quesition, I often do watch Carlson for particular topics but  I watch programs from different stations to gain better perspectives on what others are thinking. 

I dont agree with Tucker's particular theory that the CIA as an organization was involved in JFK's assassination (if that is what he means). I believe it was probably some rogue elements at the operational level who had been running the exiles in combination with Carlos Marcello who were behind the assassination. Of course, given the overlap, it can be difficult to  discern where the exiles ended and the mafia started. 

But it is not important what I believe. With the GOP taking control of the House, Tucker's charges may increase the likelihood that we will get a hearing. Others are also contacting the incoming chair.  We were never going to get an oversight hearing as long as the Committee was controlled by the same party as the president.   

BTW- During the past few days, the MFF team has discovered that 677 documents dropped on the 15th that had never been part of the JFK Collection including those from NSA and Army Intelligence. we know there were outstanding record searches requested by ARRB that NARA had not follow-ed up on and this latest dump reinforces our belief that there are important records not in the JFK Collection.      

  

[Sandy Larsen]

37 minutes ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

Tucker is genuinely interested in the assassination of JFK. There is alot of stuff going on right now behind the scenes that I am not allowed to publicly discuss at this time but these things would not be happening if Tucker was just interested in getting back at the CIA.

 

I sure hope you're right.