Col. Finck: CE 399 Did Not Make the Wounds in Gov. Connally's Wrist

[Tommy Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You are a braver man than I. 

I have remained agnostic on the direction of bullets that struck JFK and JBC that day, other than one probably struck JFK in the back, and one actually did strike JBC in the back. 

Lots of really smart people (CT'ers, no less) have absolutely proven that shots did, or did not, come from the front or GK. 

I am not a fan of the frontal throat shot as I think the limo windshield is in the way. 

There was a smoke-and-bang show near the GK. A shot also? Maybe--the one that struck JBC's wrist? JFK? 

Pat Speer is entirely 100% convinced beyond all discussion that the shots that struck JFK came from behind. 

My own two cents is that JBC was struck about Z295 and JFK at Z313, and the Z film runs at 18 frames a second, and do the math. 

 

Oh, I'm definitely not planting any flags on it, simply trying to match what the initial evidence suggested before it got Spectered.

I'm kind of reluctant to even add the Dal Tex building into the mix because there's no real evidence for it beyond Warren-like speculation, and I try to avoid that since it is what I most criticise the LN'ers for doing...

The only thing I'm doing with both the throat shot and the head shot is matching the direction to what the first experts to examine the wounds said about them... in line with where people heard/saw gunshots.

 

If the throat wound was a wound of exit, do you think the back entry wound was as high as the WC said, or back down at T3 where the Death Certificate had it? 

[Michael Davidson]

http://www.prayer-man.com/galleries/

 

Scroll down to Daltex 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Michael Davidson

[Tommy Tomlinson]

11 minutes ago, Michael Davidson said:

http://www.prayer-man.com/galleries/

 

Scroll down to Daltex 

Cheers Michael, it does suggest the line of sight MAY have been right to hit JC in the wrist from that direction.

The only issue I have with those photos is that they are from what I would consider too high to make sense of the Tague shot. The trajectory would be just about right for a miss that may strike down by the Triple Underpass, IF it came from several floors below.

It's that disparity in the Tague shot that makes me consider two shooters from behind. It's unfeasible to think a man who missed by SO much would be able to recycle and re-acquire the target from that view in his scope, in time to fire two more shots within the time-frame. 

 

 

[Michael Davidson]

Maybe the Tague shot was a deliberate miss ? 

[Michael Davidson]

Actually that line  of sight correlates with the sbt whereas the Tsbd doesnt 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Michael Davidson said:

http://www.prayer-man.com/galleries/

 

Scroll down to Daltex 

It’s a very good angle. 

[Benjamin Cole]

12 hours ago, Michael Davidson said:

Maybe the Tague shot was a deliberate miss ? 

Well, my two cents is someone fired from the 6th-floor window of the TSBD (as seen by multiple witnesses) during the JFKA. 

My guess is that was LHO, and he was shooting to miss, and that may explain the Tague shot. LHO shot only once.

There is a constant tension around this topic, and some ask, "How did LHO get down to 2nd floor without being seen?"

OK, if it was another shooter on the Sixth Floor, and not LHO, then how did the other shooter get down without being seen?  

Too many witnesses saw someone with a rifle in the Sixth Floor (and possibly a confederate) and say they saw the rifle being fired during the JFKA. 

 

 

 

[Karl Kinaski]

Robert R. Shaw, press conference Parkland 22.11.1963

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Robert R. Shaw, press conference Parkland 22.11.1963

Small note: At that time of that press conference, Shaw believed JBC had been shot through the underside of his wrist.

Shaw was later informed by the wrist surgeon that the missile had entered the wristwatch or "dorsal" side of the wrist---anatomically nearly impossible. 

Try wearing a wristwatch and touch the watch to your chest. You will see what concerned Shaw. 

[Chris Bristow]

51 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Small note: At that time of that press conference, Shaw believed JBC had been shot through the underside of his wrist.

Shaw was later informed by the wrist surgeon that the missile had entered the wristwatch or "dorsal" side of the wrist---anatomically nearly impossible. 

Try wearing a wristwatch and touch the watch to your chest. You will see what concerned Shaw. 

If we could just see Connally's arm and left leg in the Z film this thing would be a lot easier to figure out.   I also wonder exactly where his hat was and why the bullet didn't pass through that on the way to his thigh.

   Considering the 28° downward angle through Connally's chest there is a placement of the forearm that may work. That would be the entry wound on the forearm being about three to four inches below the nipple and about six inches out from the body.  keeping the elbow near the body  the forearm would angle outwards from the Torso. Then if the wrist was rotated with the dorsal side towards the exit wound under the nipple it would line up pretty well. In that position I can rotate my forearm about 25°. That's pretty close to matching the 28° downward trajectory so the Bullet would enter the top and exit the bottom of my wrist / forearm.

The farther you position  the forearm from the Torso the sharper the turn the bullet has to make to leave the forearm and reach the left thigh. In addition the entry and exit on his torso suggest the bullet had to deflect to the right as it passed through him. With his torso turned at least 20° to the right, as seen in the Z film, the direction of the bullet as it left his torso would be heading slightly outboard towards the right side of the limo. He would really have to bring his left leg over a long way or have a very great deflection of the bullet  through the wrist for that to work.

 

[Tommy Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, Chris Bristow said:

If we could just see Connally's arm and left leg in the Z film this thing would be a lot easier to figure out.   I also wonder exactly where his hat was and why the bullet didn't pass through that on the way to his thigh.

   Considering the 28° downward angle through Connally's chest there is a placement of the forearm that may work. That would be the entry wound on the forearm being about three to four inches below the nipple and about six inches out from the body.  keeping the elbow near the body  the forearm would angle outwards from the Torso. Then if the wrist was rotated with the dorsal side towards the exit wound under the nipple it would line up pretty well. In that position I can rotate my forearm about 25°. That's pretty close to matching the 28° downward trajectory so the Bullet would enter the top and exit the bottom of my wrist / forearm.

The farther you position  the forearm from the Torso the sharper the turn the bullet has to make to leave the forearm and reach the left thigh. In addition the entry and exit on his torso suggest the bullet had to deflect to the right as it passed through him. With his torso turned at least 20° to the right, as seen in the Z film, the direction of the bullet as it left his torso would be heading slightly outboard towards the right side of the limo. He would really have to bring his left leg over a long way or have a very great deflection of the bullet  through the wrist for that to work.

 

Unless you put the right hand effectively flat on the left thigh, then it's simply a matter of flexibility, and how far his legs could swivel in the seat. And questions like, if it was tight would he have raised his left leg above his right to turn?

But having the hand closer to the leg would require the vertical trajectory to alter as TMB left his chest. The Magic Bullet Theory, in having it hitting his left thigh, requires the bullet to smash the wrist high almost instantly on exiting the chest, in order to deflect downward into the leg. The alleged straight line velocity doesn't allow for his thigh wound without a deflection..

We're talking about small spaces, when you are sitting like that. For that to happen without the wrist being braced we would have surely seen some energy transfer to the wrist in the Z Film as it is (at the very least) given a nudge by the deflection. I'm not as up to speed on the HQ Frame analyses as a lot of people. Do we see anything like that among the cheek puffs and lapel flaps?

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

If we could just see Connally's arm and left leg in the Z film this thing would be a lot easier to figure out.   I also wonder exactly where his hat was and why the bullet didn't pass through that on the way to his thigh.

   Considering the 28° downward angle through Connally's chest there is a placement of the forearm that may work. That would be the entry wound on the forearm being about three to four inches below the nipple and about six inches out from the body.  keeping the elbow near the body  the forearm would angle outwards from the Torso. Then if the wrist was rotated with the dorsal side towards the exit wound under the nipple it would line up pretty well. In that position I can rotate my forearm about 25°. That's pretty close to matching the 28° downward trajectory so the Bullet would enter the top and exit the bottom of my wrist / forearm.

The farther you position  the forearm from the Torso the sharper the turn the bullet has to make to leave the forearm and reach the left thigh. In addition the entry and exit on his torso suggest the bullet had to deflect to the right as it passed through him. With his torso turned at least 20° to the right, as seen in the Z film, the direction of the bullet as it left his torso would be heading slightly outboard towards the right side of the limo. He would really have to bring his left leg over a long way or have a very great deflection of the bullet  through the wrist for that to work.

 

Chris---

For me, it just doesn't add up. 

JBC would have to hold his hat, in his right hand, over his heart at time of impact, and even then the arm/wrist would have to be very unnaturally contorted so that the dorsal side took the hit. 

Shaw repeatedly asked the wrist surgeon about the direction of the hit. But evidently, there were fibers and other telltale clues that the dorsal side of the wrist took the hit. 

My guess is another missile struck JBC's wrist, separate from the one that passed through his chest. 

And like Finck said---there are too many fragments in JBC's wrist to have been left by the single bullet. 

As I said, the SBT is like a boat made out of Swiss cheese. Explaining why the vessel sunk....

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Cory Santos]

Any wc Oswald did it response to the testimony?

[Chris Bristow]

12 hours ago, Tommy Tomlinson said:

Unless you put the right hand effectively flat on the left thigh, then it's simply a matter of flexibility, and how far his legs could swivel in the seat. And questions like, if it was tight would he have raised his left leg above his right to turn?

But having the hand closer to the leg would require the vertical trajectory to alter as TMB left his chest. The Magic Bullet Theory, in having it hitting his left thigh, requires the bullet to smash the wrist high almost instantly on exiting the chest, in order to deflect downward into the leg. The alleged straight line velocity doesn't allow for his thigh wound without a deflection..

We're talking about small spaces, when you are sitting like that. For that to happen without the wrist being braced we would have surely seen some energy transfer to the wrist in the Z Film as it is (at the very least) given a nudge by the deflection. I'm not as up to speed on the HQ Frame analyses as a lot of people. Do we see anything like that among the cheek puffs and lapel flaps?

Yes I think deflection has to be part of the scenario for the bullet to find its way to the thigh. JC was sitting in a very low seat so his knees were elevated a bit which makes the turn even more Awkward.

I can't see his arm around frame 223 but his right shoulder does seem to dip down possibly as a result of the strike to the arm.

 His exit wound is elongated and shows the bullet was tumbling by the time it exited. A tumbling bullet that hits the radius bone directly enough to break the bone in two is likely to deflect in its path.

[Chris Bristow]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Chris---

For me, it just doesn't add up. 

JBC would have to hold his hat, in his right hand, over his heart at time of impact, and even then the arm/wrist would have to be very unnaturally contorted so that the dorsal side took the hit. 

Shaw repeatedly asked the wrist surgeon about the direction of the hit. But evidently, there were fibers and other telltale clues that the dorsal side of the wrist took the hit. 

My guess is another missile struck JBC's wrist, separate from the one that passed through his chest. 

And like Finck said---there are too many fragments in JBC's wrist to have been left by the single bullet. 

As I said, the SBT is like a boat made out of Swiss cheese. Explaining why the vessel sunk....

 

 

I would agree the wrist was likely hit with a different bullet. Trying to place the dorsal side of the wrist up near the exit seems highly implausible. It is possible to hold the arm lower and several inches out from the chest and be in  a position to catch the bullet without having to rotate the arm too much. The lower your arm is and the farther from the exit wound  it is the more it has to deflect to get to the thigh. Maybe a tumbling bullet would deflect that much after breaking a solid bone like the radius. The SBT requires a lot of deflection for a bullet in such good condition and even with a lot of deflection JC would have to have his left leg pulled quite a ways to the right. I think one problem is he is barely starting his turnaround at  frame 223 with his torso turned only 20 or 30° at that point. I don't see a natural way to do the turn without moving the upper torso first and then pulling the lower torso around with it. So I think around frame 223 is lower torso would still be facing forward.