J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?

[Guest Tom Scully]

Robert, I think you might have another complication. Peter Cimino's brother, Frank, the actual Tippit murder scene witness, was reported to have advised the FBI interviewers that he would be on vacation, visiting his mother at 530 Fifteenth St. Niagara Falls, NY.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/cimino_f.htm

Peter William Ciminio, the pitcher, went to Bristol High School and was from Philadelphia. 19 years ago, (this is probably irrelevant) he reunited with a woman from Kingsport, TN who he me in 1960 while he was with the Wytheville farm team. Wytheville is the small population town where John B. Hurt's mother and brothers were living.

http://kentuckybaseball.blogspot.com/2010/02/pete-cimino-1965-1968-major-leaguer.html

Pete Cimino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peter William Cimino (born October 17, 1942) is a retired professional ... for the Class D Wytheville Senators and went 6-2 with a 3.43 earned run average. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Cimino

In 2008, a 35 years old woman reported to be a cocaine addict and prostitute was murdered in Niagara Falls. Her father was Peter Cimino.:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=29730598

There were twins, Frank and Peter Cimino, but they were eight months too young.:

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nygreen2/greenville_local_obits_march_2006.htm

Peter Albert Cimino of Dallas was arrested near the Mexican border with marijuana in bulk in the late 70's.:

http://vlex.com/vid/america-peter-albert-cimino-defendant-38391125

Here's a recent obit of a Cimino from Bristol, PA. She had a son named Peter, but no son named Frank, so I suspect she was the pitcher's mother.:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/obits_detail/article/138/2010/november/30/philomena-cimino.html

http://www.reunion.com/petercimino/

Peter Cimino Age 68 View Details

Kingsport, TN

Kingsport, TN

Morrisville, PA

Linda A Cimino

Alice Regina Meeks

There was a Paul C Cimino, married to a Philomena, but there is no son, peter.:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=Philomena%20Cimino&um=1&psj=1&bav=on.1,or.&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nw&psj=1#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1%2Car%3A1&q=%22father+of+David+Cimino+Judy+Diane+Robinson+Barrie+also+survived*%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=%22father+of+David+Cimino+Judy+Diane+Robinson+Barrie+also+survived*%22&psj=1&bav=on.1,or.&fp=4d42d5ed5aa1eb1e

This is his sister-in-laws Obit link.:

http://hosting-tributes-24309.tributes.com/show/Rose-Riccioli-88515005

The Paul C. Cimino family links in the quote box above this are included to show you how difficult this might be to resolve...the northeast has plenty of Ciminos of the same first names.

On edit, here is confirmation.:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1%2Car%3A1&q=contract.+%22my+dream+came+true.+I+realized+my+lifetime+ambition.%22&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.1,or.&fp=4d42d5ed5aa1eb1e

Bucks County Courier Times : 0828 WHERE ARE THEY

‎

$3.50 - Bucks County Courier Times - Aug 28, 2004

Today, the feat remains a Pennsylvania record and is tied for the fourth-highest point total in the nation. Post-high school: Signed a professional baseball contract with the old Washington Senators,

"My dream came true. I realized my lifetime ambition." After the glory: Drove a truck for a beverage company for 19 years and worked for a chemical company for two years before retiring. Family: Wife of 12 years, Linda; adult children Darlene and Michael; three grandchildren; parents Pete Sr. and Philomena still live on Fillmore Street in Bristol.

http://www.google.com/#q=peter+cimino+wife+philomena&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1,ar:1&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=A8pkTZWTGoqDtgetg-ztBg&ved=0CA8QpwUoBQ&bav=on.1,or.&fp=4d42d5ed5aa1eb1e

Bucks County Courier Times : Peter Cimino, 85,<br>a 'great...

‎

$3.50 - Bucks County Courier Times - Jun 21, 2005

Mr Cimino was married 64 years to Philomena whom he met when he was 15 at St Ann's school and besides Peter a son David of Bristol Township four...

Probably we're not supposed to ever find Frank and Peter who lived across from where Tippit was shot.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Guest Tom Scully]

....Yes, and wasn't Pete Cimino's wife, who he was with at the Dobbs House at the time of the assassination,

a waitress at another place of relevance?

BK

Well there is a major correction here, see below and my comments after the text......

page 97; 1964 Greater Dallas Alphabetical Telephone Directory

Beckley Club Cafe

113 W. Jefferson WH 6-0859

FBI 44-24016 Ruby HQ File, Section 27

Mr. J.P. Smith advised he is the owner and operator of the

Beckley Club, 113 Jefferson Boulevard, Dallas, Texas.

Mr. Smith advised he carefully looked over the

photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald as well as Jack Ruby

when seeing them in the local newspaper and cannot

recall either man as being in the restaurant. He stated that

it was a natural thing for him to do as the restaurant is

located in the general area where both had lived.

Mr. Smith stated that to his knowledge neither man had

ever come into the cafe. He had discussed this with other

employees right after the shooting incident and none of

the employees can recall ever seeing either individual.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=57013&relPageId=97

FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 62

12/4/63

GENE ROBERTS, 1657 Nob Hill Street, Dallas, Texas, WHitehall6-4822

advised on November 22, 1963 at approximately 1:05 P.M., he was sitting in the Beckley Club

drinking coffee. He said the lady that owned the cafe had a radio on the counter and that they

were listening to reports of the assassination of the President.

A white female and male were sitting at the back of the cafe and walked to the front, whereupon

the white male asked "What's going on?" Mr. ROBERTS stated that the President had been

shot and the unknown white male stated that this was the best news he had heard. The white

female with him said he should not have said that. Mr. Roberts advised that the cafe owner also

heard this comment. Mr. Roberts advised that the white male was about 20 to 25, appeared to

be of Cuban or Puerto Rican or foreign extraction, 5'10" to 5'11," dark complexion and dark

hair. He advised the white female was about 18 to 20, 5'2" to 5'3" slender build, dark hair.

Mr. Roberts advised he finished his coffee and then drove down past the area where Officer

Tippit was shot and noticed a number of squad cars in the area. He said he asked some woman

nearby what had happened and they told him that a police officer had been shot and the body

had been removed. At this time Roberts stated he observed the same white male and female from

the cafe walk into a house directly across the street from where Officer Tippit had been shot

and enter a side door. He said this was about 405 E. 10th Street. He said the white male was

wearing a light green cloth jacket with leather patches on his elbows when he entered the

house and had the same jacket on when he came out alone about two minutes later. He said

he was straightening the jacket as if he had something hidden inside. He said the white male

kept looking back and forth over his shoulder and never inquired of any police officers what

had taken place. Roberts advised that he thought this was quite unusual and notified a police

sergeant on the scene about this individual

He advised the police sergeant told him that the man did not fit the description of the person

that had shot Officer Tippit.

On 12/3/63 at Dallas, Texas File DL 89-43

By Special Agent Robert E. Basham and James J Ward:jj Date dictated 12/4/63

Next page

Mr. Roberts advised that he had numerous friends on the police department and city council

and he got in touch with some of them and arrangements were made for him to see Detective

Joe R. Cody which he did shortly thereafter. He said he and Cody went to the area of

405A E. 10th Street, Dallas, Texas, which Detective Cody determined was occupied by a

Mr. and Mrs. PETER CIMINO. He said he made this determination through checking the

mailbox and cars parked in the area. He advised that he thought that the sergeant at the

scene should have arrested this man and found out who he was since he did act very

suspicious as far as he was concerned.

Roberts advised that since the above he had heard a few rumors and wondered whether

or not they had been checked out. He said that he learned from a Constable T. A. Vines,

offices in Oak Cliff Court House, Beckley and 12th Street that the woman was the night

manager of the Dobbs House, Beckley and Colorado, allegedly has claimed that Lee

Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby used to come into her restaurant two or three times a

week during the early morning hours.

He said he further heard that Lee Harvey Oswald had purchased his bullets for the rifle he

was using from Ray's Gun Shop on Singleton Blvd.

END

As far as explaining how I missed noticing the Beckley Club;

I noticed the reference the first time I posted the document,

but thinking I had heard of every cafe, restaurant and eatery....

Dobbs House, Phil's Delicatessen, Lucas B&B, et cetera

I had never heard of it, so I assumed it [the reference] was a mistake

Well, you know what they say about assuming...lol

So I am trying to get back on the right track.....

I've looked at every repeat, in the last two pages of this thread, of the phrase,

..."that the woman was the night manager of the Dobbs House, Beckley and Colorado, allegedly has claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby used to come into her restaurant..."

...and I am now failry certain that the reference was not related to Mrs. Cimino...she remains a complete mystery, because the word "who" has not been included in the phrase.:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=57751&relPageId=80

...that the woman WHO was the night manager of the Dobbs House, Beckley and Colorado, allegedly has claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby used to come into her restaurant...

The report was no longer about "Mr. and Mrs. Cimino" at that point, because this phrase had come after the last reference to Cimino.:

"...Roberts advised that since the above he had heard a few rumors and wondered whether or not they had been checked out...."

...and the rumors were then described, they included info attributed to an unidentified woman WHO worked at night, (Mary Ada Dowling ?) and about where rifle ammunition had been purchased.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Robert Howard]

....Yes, and wasn't Pete Cimino's wife, who he was with at the Dobbs House at the time of the assassination,

a waitress at another place of relevance?

BK

Well there is a major correction here, see below and my comments after the text......

page 97; 1964 Greater Dallas Alphabetical Telephone Directory

Beckley Club Cafe

113 W. Jefferson WH 6-0859

FBI 44-24016 Ruby HQ File, Section 27

Mr. J.P. Smith advised he is the owner and operator of the

Beckley Club, 113 Jefferson Boulevard, Dallas, Texas.

Mr. Smith advised he carefully looked over the

photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald as well as Jack Ruby

when seeing them in the local newspaper and cannot

recall either man as being in the restaurant. He stated that

it was a natural thing for him to do as the restaurant is

located in the general area where both had lived.

Mr. Smith stated that to his knowledge neither man had

ever come into the cafe. He had discussed this with other

employees right after the shooting incident and none of

the employees can recall ever seeing either individual.

http://www.maryferre...13&relPageId=97

FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 62

12/4/63

GENE ROBERTS, 1657 Nob Hill Street, Dallas, Texas, WHitehall6-4822

advised on November 22, 1963 at approximately 1:05 P.M., he was sitting in the Beckley Club

drinking coffee. He said the lady that owned the cafe had a radio on the counter and that they

were listening to reports of the assassination of the President.

A white female and male were sitting at the back of the cafe and walked to the front, whereupon

the white male asked "What's going on?" Mr. ROBERTS stated that the President had been

shot and the unknown white male stated that this was the best news he had heard. The white

female with him said he should not have said that. Mr. Roberts advised that the cafe owner also

heard this comment. Mr. Roberts advised that the white male was about 20 to 25, appeared to

be of Cuban or Puerto Rican or foreign extraction, 5'10" to 5'11," dark complexion and dark

hair. He advised the white female was about 18 to 20, 5'2" to 5'3" slender build, dark hair.

Mr. Roberts advised he finished his coffee and then drove down past the area where Officer

Tippit was shot and noticed a number of squad cars in the area. He said he asked some woman

nearby what had happened and they told him that a police officer had been shot and the body

had been removed. At this time Roberts stated he observed the same white male and female from

the cafe walk into a house directly across the street from where Officer Tippit had been shot

and enter a side door. He said this was about 405 E. 10th Street. He said the white male was

wearing a light green cloth jacket with leather patches on his elbows when he entered the

house and had the same jacket on when he came out alone about two minutes later. He said

he was straightening the jacket as if he had something hidden inside. He said the white male

kept looking back and forth over his shoulder and never inquired of any police officers what

had taken place. Roberts advised that he thought this was quite unusual and notified a police

sergeant on the scene about this individual

He advised the police sergeant told him that the man did not fit the description of the person

that had shot Officer Tippit.

On 12/3/63 at Dallas, Texas File DL 89-43

By Special Agent Robert E. Basham and James J Ward:jj Date dictated 12/4/63

Next page

Mr. Roberts advised that he had numerous friends on the police department and city council

and he got in touch with some of them and arrangements were made for him to see Detective

Joe R. Cody which he did shortly thereafter. He said he and Cody went to the area of

405A E. 10th Street, Dallas, Texas, which Detective Cody determined was occupied by a

Mr. and Mrs. PETER CIMINO. He said he made this determination through checking the

mailbox and cars parked in the area. He advised that he thought that the sergeant at the

scene should have arrested this man and found out who he was since he did act very

suspicious as far as he was concerned.

Roberts advised that since the above he had heard a few rumors and wondered whether

or not they had been checked out. He said that he learned from a Constable T. A. Vines,

offices in Oak Cliff Court House, Beckley and 12th Street that the woman was the night

manager of the Dobbs House, Beckley and Colorado, allegedly has claimed that Lee

Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby used to come into her restaurant two or three times a

week during the early morning hours.

He said he further heard that Lee Harvey Oswald had purchased his bullets for the rifle he

was using from Ray's Gun Shop on Singleton Blvd.

END

As far as explaining how I missed noticing the Beckley Club;

I noticed the reference the first time I posted the document,

but thinking I had heard of every cafe, restaurant and eatery....

Dobbs House, Phil's Delicatessen, Lucas B&B, et cetera

I had never heard of it, so I assumed it [the reference] was a mistake

Well, you know what they say about assuming...lol

So I am trying to get back on the right track.....

I've looked at every repeat, in the last two pages of this thread, of the phrase,

..."that the woman was the night manager of the Dobbs House, Beckley and Colorado, allegedly has claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby used to come into her restaurant..."

...and I am now failry certain that the reference was not related to Mrs. Cimino...she remains a complete mystery, because the word "who" has not been included in the phrase.:

http://www.maryferre...51&relPageId=80

...that the woman WHO was the night manager of the Dobbs House, Beckley and Colorado, allegedly has claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby used to come into her restaurant...

The report was no longer about "Mr. and Mrs. Cimino" at that point, because this phrase had come after the last reference to Cimino.:

"...Roberts advised that since the above he had heard a few rumors and wondered whether or not they had been checked out...."

...and the rumors were then described, they included info attributed to an unidentified woman WHO worked at night, (Mary Ada Dowling ?) and about where rifle ammunition had been purchased.

Well Tom , I was actually hoping you would jump in here, hopefully I haven't missed any major points you've raised, if I have please let me know.

Peter Cimino Age 68 View Details

Kingsport, TN

Kingsport, TN

Morrisville, PA

Linda A Cimino

Alice Regina Meeks

One small problem I have removing Peter W. Cimino from the list

is the fact that if you check his age description by Gene Roberts

and contrast that with the age of the baseball pitcher, it is a definite

match, not only that he has physical features, that, at least in

my estimation, could in a particular situation, such as the Tippit

shooting, where things were happening fairly fast be mistaken

for a Latin, when in fact he was Italian, or of Italian lineage

The fact that there is the reference to a Mr. and Mrs. Peter Cimino

while seemingly eliminating him as the pitcher is problematic

for two reasons

1. There are no Cimino's in the Greater Dallas Residential White Pages

Wouldn't there be cause to think there would be, whereas with the baseball

pitcher, who was only here part of 1963, it would be understandable.

2. It is agruable that if, there was evidence that someone other than Oswald

shot Tippit, and the ballistic evidence alone [Remington Peters cartidges]

supports that view, then it is not out of the realm of possibility there

would have been some deliberate hijinks to obfuscate or muddle the waters.

(Such as purporting to being married when, in fact, their was no marriage

on record). Do I have a point?

Then there are some other issues as well (see below)

Commission Document 355 - DOJ Criminal Division Listing of Witnesses Interviewed pg 590

Found in: Warren Commission Documents

Lois Meeks

326 E Woodin

Waitress Webbs Waffle Shop

110 S. Murphy

Observed Ruby as customer in cafe from 4:45 to 6:00 am, November 23, with two other men.

They were reading the papers and discussing the assassination. Knew Ruby prior to that

time as occasional breakfast customer.

http://www.maryferre...6&relPageId=591

DMN 7/18/62 Richard Lucas, Bride on Trip to Colorado

Richard Lucas and the former Sara Ann Skaggs

and bridesmaids were Miss Linda Meeks, Miss Nelda Grigsby,

Mrs Lacy Williams of Galveston

AGENCY : WC

RECORD NUMBER : 179-40003-10122

RECORDS SERIES : 08: NUMBERED COMMISSION DOCUMENTS

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : DOJ

FROM : [No From]

TO : [No To]

TITLE : [No Title]

DATE : 02/04/1964

PAGES : 1

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

SUBJECTS : MEEKS, WILLIAM

CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED

CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 00/00/0000

COMMENTS : LISTING OF WITNESSES INTERVIEWED IN RUBY

INVESTIGATION BY THE DOJ; BOX J01

Robert: I am not suggesting that either of the two obituaries listed

below are the same William Meeks as the person referenced

in 179-40003-10112, but only as possibilities.

Fort Worth Star-Telegram (TX) - July 28, 1992

Deceased Name: William B. Meeks

FORT WORTH - William B. Meeks, a retired heavy equipment operator, died Sunday at a Fort Worth hospital. He was 74.

Graveside service will be at 4 p.m. today in Mount Olivet Cemetery.

Mount Olivet Funeral Home is in charge of arrangements.

Mr. Meeks was born in Memphis, Tenn., and lived in Fort Worth for most of his life. He was a heavy equipment operator and foreman for the city of Fort Worth, and had been with the city for more than 30 years when he retired in 1981.

Mr. Meeks was an Army veteran of World War II and served with the 36th Division. He was a member of the Black Powder Gun Club and was a life member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

Survivors: Wife, Evelyn Meeks of Fort Worth; son, Dewane Meeks of Long Beach, Calif.; and two daughters, Jean Willett and Sue Meeks, both of Fort Worth.

Watertown Daily Times (NY) - June 14, 1992

Deceased Name: WILLIAM D. MEEKS , VETERAN OF WWII, DIES

William D. Meeks, 77, former resident of Philadelphia and Newport Richey, Fla., Town of Philadelphia Justice for 22 years and 33-year veteran of the Navy, died Saturday afternoon at the Carthage Area Hospital, where he had been patient since May 16.

There will be no funeral or calling hours. The body will be cremated.

A memorial service will be conducted at a later date at the convenience of the family. Donations may be to Three Mile Bay Rescue Squad in his name.

Frederick Brothers Funeral Home, Theresa, is in charge of arrangements.

He is survived by his wife, Alberta, and an aunt, Jennie Meeks, Watertown.

Mr. Meeks was born April 8, 1915, in Theresa, a son of Adam and Florence Zanker Meeks. A 1933 graduate of Philadelphia High School, he worked two years for the Sinclair Oil Co., Philadelphia, then enlisted in the Navy in 1935.

During his Navy career, which spanned 33 years, he was a medical technician aboard the U.S.S. Trenton. He traveled extensively while in the Navy, and at the end of World War II he was an administrative officer in China where he made inspections in various regions including Peking.

Mr. Meeks retired from the Navy in 1958 as a commissioned warrant officer.

While in the Navy, he married Alberta Ruth Buckley on May 12, 1945, in the chapel of St. Paul the Seafarer, Fort Emory, Coronado, Calif. Mrs. Buckley also served in the Navy.

After he retired from the Navy, the couple moved back to Philadelphia where they built a home. He was elected town of Philadelphia Justice in 1961, a position he held until 1983.

In 1967 he started his own backhoe business and also worked as a substitute mail carrier.

The couple moved to Three Mile Bay in 1983 and spent winters in Newport Richey, Fla.

Mr. Meeks was a life member and past commander of the Robert Markwich American Legion Post 798.

also see Mrs. Markham and the 2nd Gunman

alt.assassination.jfk

Also has the issue of someone allegedly taking

Tippit's revolver ever been confirmed, addressed?

T F Bowley has written his JFK Book, I thumbed

through it at a book store, and was singularly

unimpressed....Anyone else?

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT

THE STATE OF TEXAS

COUNTY OF DALLAS

BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of

Texas, on this day personally appeared T.F. Bowley w/m/35 of 1454 Summertime

Lane, TE6 5965 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

On Friday November 22, 1963 I picked up my daughter at the R. L. Thornton

School in Singing Hills at about 12:55 pm. I then left the school to pick up

my wife who was at work at the Telephone Company at Ninth Street and Zangs

Street. I was headed north on Marsalis and turned west on 10th Street. I

traveled about a block and noticed a Dallas police squad car stopped in the

traffic lane headed east on 10th Street. I saw a police officer lying next to

the left front wheel. I stopped my car and got out to go to the scene. I

looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm. Several people were at the scene.

When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the officer. He

appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the radio in the squad

car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I know how and took the

radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A police officer has been shot

here." The dispatcher asked for the location. I found out the location and

told the dispatcher what it was. A few minutes later an ambulance came to the

scene. I helped load the officer onto the stretcher and into the ambulance.

As we picked the officer up, I noticed his pistol laying on the ground under

him. Someone picked the pistol up and laid it on the hood of the squad car.

When the ambulance left, I took the gun and put it inside the squad car. A

man took the pistol out and said, "Let's catch him." He opened the cylinder,

and I saw that no rounds in it had been fired. This man then took the pistol

with him and got into a cab and drove off. The police arrived and I talked to

a police sergeant at the scene I told him I did not withness the shooting and

after questioning me, he said it was all right for me to leave. I then went

on to the Telephone Company office at Ninth and Zangs.

/s/ T. F. Bowley

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 2 DAY OF December A.D. 1963

/s/ Mary Rattan

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

Edited February 23, 2011 by Robert Howard

[Guest Tom Scully]

Robert, you have a point, as far as Peter Cimino possibly not being legally married, but I think I've

eliminated the idea the constable was referring to the young woman accompanying Peter Cimino.

The FBI has us looking for Cimino brothers with a mother in Niagara Falls. Even if that is an error in

the report or a ruse, consider the other details.

Peter W Cimino has no brother named Frank named in either of his parent's obits. If it was true Frank had a

mother in Niagara Falls, Peter W's parents lived on Fillmore St. ln Bristol, PA for many years. Peter W has

been married to Linda 19 years and has adult children, presumably from an earlier relationship.

[Duke Lane]

Also has the issue of someone allegedly taking Tippit's revolver ever been confirmed, addressed?

Ted Callaway. Old news. I think Donnie Benavides talked about it, I'm pretty sure Callaway did too.

T F Bowley has written his JFK Book, I thumbed through it at a book store, and was singularly unimpressed....Anyone else?

This is new news. I'm surprised, given Tom's attitude about this whole thing. Will have to drop by to visit with him sometime when I'm in the area. What's it called? Where did you run across it?

[Robert Howard]

Also has the issue of someone allegedly taking Tippit's revolver ever been confirmed, addressed?

Ted Callaway. Old news. I think Donnie Benavides talked about it, I'm pretty sure Callaway did too.

T F Bowley has written his JFK Book, I thumbed through it at a book store, and was singularly unimpressed....Anyone else?

This is new news. I'm surprised, given Tom's attitude about this whole thing. Will have to drop by to visit with him sometime when I'm in the area. What's it called? Where did you run across it?

Well I saw it Friday at the Half-Price Books store on Shadybrook; like I said I was unimpressed. So I didn't really pay that close attention. It was written in the Libra/DeLillo

style, in the sense that there were, what looked like conversations not part of the Warren Commission or HSCA Elsurs or accounts given;

Which was why I was so uninterested. Imagine my surprise when I saw your post, this morning and google book searched and ditto amazon.com

with nary a result.

The only thing I can say is I guess it possibly could have been an advance copy, or co-written with his name last, or I simply am mistaken, which I doubt seriously.

I even went back there today to at least get the title, ISBN #, specifically for you and it had apparently been bought already.

I do know his name is Temple Ford Bowley, and he got the reward recently from the City of Dallas.....

I am sure something about this will pop up, but if your hoping for a magnum opus, I am warning you, you will be disappointed.

[Guest Tom Scully]

Sounds like a very rare, collector's item, probably self-published, if the lack of search results by author's name and keyword are an indication.

I didn't know that Bowley had been employed by Jack Ruby.

http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/news/view/6543

Dallas to honor man whose 'officer down' report led police to Lee Harvey Oswald

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/crime/stories/112110dnmetbowley.2fc35b6.html

By SCOTT K. PARKS / The Dallas Morning News

sparks@dallasnews.com

Temple F. Bowley's life changed forever when he came upon a Dallas police officer lying dead in an Oak Cliff street on Nov. 22, 1963.

"You don't run upon a dead man every day," Bowley said...

TF Bowley Age 82

Edited March 7, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Duke Lane]

Well I saw it Friday at the Half-Price Books store on Shadybrook; like I said I was unimpressed. So I didn't really pay that close attention. It was written in the Libra/DeLillo style, in the sense that there were, what looked like conversations not part of the Warren Commission or HSCA Elsurs or accounts given; Which was why I was so uninterested. Imagine my surprise when I saw your post, this morning and google book searched and ditto amazon.com with nary a result.

The only thing I can say is I guess it possibly could have been an advance copy, or co-written with his name last, or I simply am mistaken, which I doubt seriously.

I even went back there today to at least get the title, ISBN #, specifically for you and it had apparently been bought already. I do know his name is Temple Ford Bowley, and he got the reward recently from the City of Dallas.....

I am sure something about this will pop up, but if your hoping for a magnum opus, I am warning you, you will be disappointed.

No, no magnum opus expected. More of a curiosity than anything else. I've been in touch with Tom (Temple) for years, and it surprises me that he's never mentioned anything of this sort. Says he doesn't even like talking about the subject, but he'll engage as long as you keep his interest; when he's bored, you're on the road again.

I've tried to find out a little of the background of the recent award - it didn't pop in from thin air, so someone must've recommended it, someone must've looked into it, etc., etc. - but with no luck, the local fount of knowledge seemingly having dried up on this one or too humble to admit his part in it, if y'know what (and whom) I mean.

If you see it again, grab it for me. Not likely, but always possible. The conspiracy museum guys downtown used to do weekly rounds of the HPBs in search of little ditties like this, and it may just be that this was their week for that store. C'est la vie, I suppose. (HPB has no clue what they get: I've picked up several copies of the GPO WCR in great shape for $5, and I'd expect they're probably offer me $15-20 for my 26, tho' they "probably don't have much of a market for these old things."

Thanks for the info!

[Duke Lane]

http://www.lawenforc.../news/view/6543

Dallas to honor man whose 'officer down' report led police to Lee Harvey Oswald

http://www.dallasnew...ey.2fc35b6.html

By SCOTT K. PARKS / The Dallas Morning News

sparks@dallasnews.com

Temple F. Bowley's life changed forever when he came upon a Dallas police officer lying dead in an Oak Cliff street on Nov. 22, 1963.

"You don't run upon a dead man every day," Bowley said...

TF Bowley Age 82

Wow, looking at that photo, it's been a few years since I've been to visit! It doesn't seem like it, but the hair color has sure changed and the demeanor seems to have brightened along with it!

[Ian Kingsbury]

Sounds like a very rare, collector's item, probably self-published, if the lack of search results by author's name and keyword are an indication.

I didn't know that Bowley had been employed by Jack Ruby.

http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/news/view/6543

Dallas to honor man whose 'officer down' report led police to Lee Harvey Oswald

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/crime/stories/112110dnmetbowley.2fc35b6.html

By SCOTT K. PARKS / The Dallas Morning News

sparks@dallasnews.com

Temple F. Bowley's life changed forever when he came upon a Dallas police officer lying dead in an Oak Cliff street on Nov. 22, 1963.

"You don't run upon a dead man every day," Bowley said...

TF Bowley Age 82

Tom

I think 2 0r 3 people present at the Tippet scene had themselves worked for Ruby or had close relatives/Wives ,girlfreinds also will try and find it.

Found this http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6421

Also Robert Howard and Raymond J Carrol were part of a thread Involving Donald Willis who had requested info on Bowley and ruby.

Ian

Edited March 7, 2011 by Ian Kingsbury

[William Kelly]

I think this is important. Does anybody else?

Can anyone get a copy of the Texas Ranger affidavit mentioned below? I'd also like to identify the father of Robinson's friend, a Dallas policeman. Is it Frank M. Martin? Is there anything else available on this story? - BK

The Incredible Story of Mike Robinson by Walt Brown, Ph.D

Reprinted from "Treachery in Dallas."

From Probable Cause Australia:

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:9MdD-T...=clnk&gl=us

Anyone who does not believe strongly in either irony or coincidence will have to rethink their attitudes when they hear the revelations given to me by Mike Robinson.

As it is the central thesis of my work that elements within the Dallas Police Department had a far greater involvement in the JFK assassination than heretofore considered, it seems odd that the same police department "gave" me Mike Robinson.

November 22, 1993, was the thirtieth anniversary of the tragedy in Dealey Plaza, and, as such, was the occasion for the dedication of that area as an historic landmark. I arrived there with my wife and Texas researcher Russ McLean early enough to be close enough to be able to see the goings-on. But the local blues were forcing people out of the plaza until all was ready. I was thus manhandled from the reflecting pool across the street to the TSBD, then around the corner to a point on Houston between the TSBD and the former Dal-Tex building. When I met resistance indicating I could be pushed no farther, I found myself next to Mike, who was giving an interview to a local television network.

What he had to say was incredible, and the TV anchorperson was lost for the right questions to ask. She did ask, however, if Mike was willing to take his story to the FBI, and he said he would--if the film crew would come with him to document the event. They declined.

I subsequently contacted Mike, as I had copied his name and phone number from the reporter's notes (Woodward or Bernstein I'm not). I explained that I had been standing next to him for the interview and that I had heard most of his comments, but that I just wanted to make sure I had heard them correctly. Mr. Robinson, not knowing my voice over the phone from Adam's, checked me out through people in Texas and only then shared his story.

Mike Robinson was fourteen years old the day the president was killed. Since I had been sixteen at the time, I felt I could relate to the emotions he told of.

He had watched the motorcade at Main and Harwood, the corner where Dallas police headquarters was located, with a friend whose father was a higher-up in the police. I have since been able to confirm the existence of both the friend, his father's rank, and his father's perhaps too-deep curiosity as to the events of November 22.

After the motorcade passed, the boys went to a theater, bought their tickets and popcorn, and then heard the rapidly spreading news that the president had been shot. Figuring that headquarters would be the center of subsequent action, he and his friend hastened back there in time to get to the third floor, check in with the friend's father, and then see Lee Oswald being led out of the elevator. Since this was a once-in-a-lifetime adventure for a young boy, and since the media were mobbing the area anyway, they stayed and observed the goings-on.

Mike indicated that he overheard in conversation that it was clear to anyone who was talking that the police were convinced beyond all reasonable doubt, even as early as 2:30 P.M., that Oswald was the culprit on both counts. He also learned that J. D. Tippit had been killed. That event, while tragic, was not overly troubling to Mike, as many neighborhood kids knew Tippit from his comings and goings at Austin's Barbeque, and Tippit had arrested Mike's brother for drinking beer in public. The local teenagers, it was noted, had no use for Tippit, whom they viewed as your garden-variety asshole.

Putting that aside, Mike and his friend saw Oswald moved from the various places he was shunted to, and also saw him inside one of the glass homicide cubicles, until such time as newspaper was taped up to keep out the curious. Mike also saw Bobby Hargis, the motorcycle officer splattered by particulate matter from the president, return to headquarters with blood and brain matter on him and his helmet, and when the realization of events hit Hargis, he violently slammed the helmet into a wall and literally went berserk, requiring a number of other officers to restrain him (an event unknown to--or unreported by -- the Warren Commission).

As afternoon approached evening, a trip to the rest room became an absolute necessity, but with extra police and media on the third floor, that was impossible. So Mike was taken, by the ranking officer whose son he was with, down to the lowest level of the building, where the officers had their lockers, and told that the rest room was just past the locker room.

While in a toilet/stall, the enormity of events hit Mike hard and he became emotional about them now that he found himself literally alone with the knowledge that the president he had waved to just a few hours earlier was now in a coffin. As this emotional turmoil came upon him, the rest room serenity was broken by the arrival of three individuals. Not to appear a sissy or be embarrassed, Mike lifted his feet and "hid" in the stall so that anyone observing would think that only the three men who had just entered were present.

Their brief conversation forever changed Mike Robinson's life. Initially there were whispers, but eventually one individual--and these people were police or police-related in the officers' rest room--vented some anger through gritted teeth, with appropriate profanity, to make statements that add great credence to the thesis enunciated herein.

As Mike Robinson reconstructs the statements, their order was:

(angrily) "You knew you were supposed to kill Lee," followed by icy silence, then the same voice in the same nasty tone, "then, you stupid son of a bitch, you go kill a cop .... " At this point, another individual entered the room, and the first three fell silent. The newcomer, whom Mike could identify as wearing blue, "did his business, flushed the urinal, and left." The original three then concluded, "Lee will have to be killed before they take him to Washington."

Naturally uncomfortable with what he had heard, Mike remained in his hideout for a decent span of time after the three men left the room, then left. As he passed through the police locker room, one officer, in the process of changing his clothes, stared at Mike, as if to say, "Were you in there when we were?" Having been shown every available photo of officers on the Dallas police force at that time, Mike Robinson believes that the man who stared at him in a menacing way was Roscoe White.

Caveat emptor: Some of the narrative cited above came to light as a result of hypnosis. This is not uncommon police procedure, as witnesses to crimes can often be hypnotized and reveal details--from clothing to license plates--that they seemed totally unaware of in a conscious state. I was hypnotized in 1984 to begin the cure of a phobic concern, and I can personally report the success of the hypnosis. So if one chooses to see Mike as an opportunist, the obvious criticism is that he did not recall the entire story, although to this day, when he sees the ominous photo of Roscoe White in the Dallas Assassination Information Center, he admits that it scares the living hell out of him.

The hypnosis, which I asked a number of skeptical questions about and which will be well covered in Coke Buchanan's writings about Mike, was done by an expert with a Ph.D. in hypnotherapy. It revealed that it was Mike's deep-seated belief that one of the three bathroom individuals had something to do with an "agency." He also believes "100 percent" that Roscoe White killed J. D. Tippit.

I have checked with sources to see if it was in any way possible that Oswald could have been in that bathroom, or if media people had made statements that could have been confused. I was assured that Oswald did "his business" in his cell, or in the third-floor rest room, and that the one place that would have been off-limits to press, and thus private to officers, was the area in question.

** UPDATE **

I promised Mike I would be in contact with him at the time of publication (whenever that was, as it was unclear in November, 1993, although the original completed book had been submitted in August, 1993); so in the summer of 1995, I got in touch with Mike, and he became slightly concerned about the publication. Taking steps to protect himself, he visited the barracks of the "Texas Rangers" (the state police), and gave a statement very similar to that which I described in Treachery in Dallas. He told the officer that he was concerned for his safety once my publication of his observations came to pass. The officer told him, among other things, that not too many people in the Texas law enforcement community believed the "official version" of Oswald alone, although they didn't comment for the record about the possibility of law-enforcement people being involved.

Mike has also been "driven" by something else he saw that day... on several occasions, he saw someone, approximately 17-18 years of age and wearing some kind of uniform--ROTC, Scouts, whatever, being taken around through the third floor, and the story was that this person had been arrested with a weapon on the motorcade route. [There is a record of a "boy scout" with a fake pistol, but that is as far as the record goes.] Yet Mike Robinson recalls the incident vividly, and is convinced there is more to it. He has since visited as many local high schools in the area as possible, and has combed yearbooks from the classes of 1962-1964 to try and get a visual on the person he saw, with no luck.

But he insisted to me, both on the phone and when we met at Dallas COPA '96, (a wonderfully surprising reunion), that if it were possible to find the media coverage of the third floor on Friday, November 22 afternoon, you could see the individual, and more than once, as he was taken right past the camera during his detention.

Mike still stands by the story I added to Treachery in Dallas in 1993 (published 1995), and still has a keen pedestrian interest in the assass

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...ult&id=6204

A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database

Record: MARTIN, FRANK M. Jr. (CAPTAIN)

Sources: Forgive My Grief II, Jones, 16

Mary's Comments: Captain in Dallas Police Juvenile Department. Died June 16, 1966. His widow: Betty J. Martin, owner of Vanity Fair Poodle Salon, 127 W. Jefferson, Dallas, TX.

[bK Notes: This is very odd, and the only known example I've come across where Mary fails to mention the Warren Commission testimony of Frank M. Martin – [see below], or his letter (CE 5058) or deposition (CE 5059) and his markings of CE 5060, a map of the Dallas Police basement. Did Mary intentionally leave this out, or did Rex or one of his assistants miss it? ]

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...Vol20_0311b.htm

CE 5058

WCH Vol. XX p. 602

November 26, 1963

Mr. J. E. Curry

Chief of Police

Subject: Shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald

Sir:

On Sunday, November 24, 1963, I was stationed in the City Hall basement as security for the transfer of Oswald.

When he came out of the jail office I was standing about mid-way of the driveway going into the parking area. There was a police car between me and the jail office. I did not see anything but heard the shot that was fired. By the time I could get around to the jail, Oswald and Ruby had been pulled back into the jail office. Ruby was down with three or four officers holding him. Oswald was lying on the North side of the jail office on the floor. The doctor and the ambulance arrived shortly after I got into the jail office.

I did know Jack Ruby but did not see him prior to this incident.

Respectfully submitted

F. M. Martin

Captain of Police

Juvenile Bureau

CD5059

Captain FRANK M. MARTIN, Dallas Police Department, Juvenile Division, was interviewed at his home at 609 Five Mile Parkway. Captain MILLER (BKN – sic) advised he was regularly assigned to the Juvenile Bureau and works from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.; that on November 24, 1963, he received no specific assignment regarding the security aspects of transporting LEE HARVEY OSWALD from the City Jail to the County Jail. He received no instructions and assumed his duties were to control the crowd of people and newsmen in the basement of the police station. He had received no information regarding the threats on OSWALD's life.

He and the five detectives who were under his supervision went to the basement of the police station at approximately 11:00 a.m. Insasmcuh as they had no specific assignments, they positioned themselves to control the crowd. He gave his men no specific assignments. He is unable to recall exactly when he received his instructions to be at the police station for the transfer of OSWALD.

Captain MARTIN advised he was not informed of any change of plans to transport OSWALD by automobile rather than by the armored truck.

According to Captain MARTIN, he knows JACK RUBY by sight, however, he did not see him in the Compound prior to the shooting. He advised that had he seen RUBY he probably would not have put him out as he had received no instructions in this regard. He knew of no unauthorized persons permitted to be in the basement and had no knowledge of whether person were to identify themselves before entering; however, he left the compound on one occasion and was stopped at one of the ramp entrances by an auxillary officer regarding his identity. He advised that auxillary officers were stationed at each ramp and that to his knowledge this was the only entrance to the Compound which RUBY could have used. He stated the auxillary police are commanded by Captain SOLOMON.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol12_0147b.htm

Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XII

P. 277 – 285

Testimony of Captain Frank Martin

p. 284 – 285

Mr. Hubert. Did you have occasion to talk to Ruby at any time thereafter.

Captain Martin. No, No.

Mr. Hubert. Now, Captain Martin, is there anything else you would like to say concerning any aspect of this matter at all?

Captain Martin. I – don't take this down.

Mr. Hubert. Well, if you don't want to say it on the record, you'd better not say it at all.

Captain Martin. There is a lot to be said, but probably be better if I don't say it.

Mr. Hubert. Well, I don't know what you mean by……

Captain Martin. Well –

Mr. Hubert. That it would be better. What we are seeking to find out is the facts on it.

Captain Martin. I understand.

Mr. Hubert. If what you have to say is more or less a matter of opinion, that is one thing. I don't want to ask you to express your opinion, but any facts you know that you think might bear upon this matter, I would ask that you state those facts.

Captain Martin. Well, there is not but one thing that I could say about the whole business. Of course, we are not experienced in handling this sort of a prisoner. I don't guess anybody is, as far as that goes, but the way I saw it, there was no organization at all. I don't know who was in charge or anything about it. I don't guess anybody – either people should have been told something – what to do and what to expect. We weren't –

Mr. Hubert. All right sir. Have you any other facts that you think have any bearing upon. Captain Martin. No, no: I don't think so. I think it is more or less in that report there [indicating].

Mr. Hubert. That is to say, you are talking about the documents you have identified?

Captain Martin. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. Now, other than the interview that I had with you this morning, have you been interviewed by any other member of the Commission staff?

Captain Martin. No, no.

Mr. Hubert. Now, but I did interview you this morning just prior to lunch, I think at which time we arranged for you to come to have your deposition taken.

Captain Martin. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. Do you perceive at the present time any inconsistency between the interview with me this morning and your testimony in the deposition this afternoon?

Captain Martin. No, no. It is about the same.

Mr. Hubert. Did you state anything, or provide any material, state any facts in the course of the interview this morning which has not been developed in the record this afternoon?

Captain Martin. I don't recall anything. If there is any you can think of, you can ask me and I will bring it out, but I don't recall a thing.

Mr. Hubert. No, sir; I don't. I am just obliged to ask these questions to wrap it up.

Captain Martin. Uh-huh.

Mr. Hubert. We certainly thank you, Captain Martin, and I thank you personally and on behalf of the Commission for your cooperation in this matter. If at any time, if you know that there are some other facts that you may have overlooked, please feel completely free to get in touch with us so that we may bind out what that fact may be. In other words, it is never too late to reveal a fact which has been omitted as a lapse of memory.

Captain Martin. I don't know of a thing right now.

Mr. Hubert. Thank you very much.

[William Kelly]

Can anybody find an obit for Dallas Police Captain Frank W. Martin, Jr.?

He apparently died of cancer on June 16, 1966.

Or his wife Betty J. Martin?

She apparently was the owner of Vanity Fair Poodle Salon, 127 W. Jefferson, Dallas, TX,

which seems to be near the center of a lot of action.

Specifically I'd like to know if they had a son, and his name and age.

Did Frank Martin have a son who played hookie with Mike Robinson and went to the movies?

It would also be nice to locate Martin's son and Mike Robinson, if anybody can, I'd like to talk to them.

Thanks,

BK

[William Kelly]

Can anybody find an obit for Dallas Police Captain Frank W. Martin, Jr.?

He apparently died of cancer on June 16, 1966.

Or his wife Betty J. Martin?

She apparently was the owner of Vanity Fair Poodle Salon, 127 W. Jefferson, Dallas, TX,

which seems to be near the center of a lot of action.

Specifically I'd like to know if they had a son, and his name and age.

Did Frank Martin have a son who played hookie with Mike Robinson and go to the movies?

It would also be nice to locate Martin's son and Mike Robinson, if anybody can, I'd like to talk to them.

Thanks,

BK

Edited May 16, 2011 by William Kelly

[Guest Tom Scully]

Bill, this is as close as I can get you, at this time.

It is possible, if the findagrave.com cite the death certificate as the info source is reliable, the Frank's survivors did not really know his correct middle name or his mother's full first name. My guess is it is Marshall, not Madison. Social Security shows no middle name.

Maybe there are obits of his brother and sister. The sister lived in Hawaii and the brother, in Nevada. They seem too old to be alive.

Nothing out there on the poodle salon or wife "Betty J." You might ask Duke to check out the property transfer history of the address Capt. Marvin gave the WC. The house is still there, according to blockshopper.com. From that, you might get the actual name of one of his children. An Elizabeth Martin, b. 04 Mar. 1913, died in July 1977, per SSDI.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=spikeysmurf&id=I19132

Children

Has Children Virginia Martin b: 27 Jan 1907

Has Children Frank Marshall Martin b: 18 Dec 1909 in Kingsville, Texas

Has Children Joseph Martin b: 1 Sep 1917 in Marshall, Texas

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=martin&GSfn=frank&GSmn=m&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=28154769&df=all&

Birth: Dec. 18, 1909

Kingsville

Kleberg County

Texas, USA

Death: Jun. 16, 1966

Dallas

Dallas County

Texas, USA

Buried on June 18, 1966.

Captain of Police: Juvenile Department

Home at death: 906 West Five Mile Parkway, Dallas

His parents were Frank Madison Martin, Sr. & Ludie Pope.

Source: Death Certificate

He has become famous by often being associated with the President John F. Kennedy assassination.

Burial:

Restland Memorial Park

Dallas

Dallas County

[Duke Lane]

... Nothing out there on the poodle salon or wife "Betty J." You might ask Duke to check out the property transfer history of the address Capt. Marvin gave the WC. ...

Isn't "Betty" a dimunitive of "Elizabeth?"