Fred Litwin's new book

[James DiEugenio]

Pat is correct on this about Shermer.

IIRC, he  tried to get into an argument about JFK Revisited and whether Oswald could have gotten those shots off in six seconds.

Oliver said he could not and Shermer said he could.

Oliver called off the interview unless I was on with him.

Shermer decided to change the subject.

Edited January 29, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:56 PM, Pat Speer said:

I, too, would be curious as to your opinion on UFOs, Lance. My mom lived in Arizona. I spent many a night under the stars in the desert. And a lot of people living there will tell you they've seen things. 

Have you seen things? 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[David Von Pein]

30 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

If only I could see [this] picture from the side and front to know whose head it was.   

Oh for Pete sake, Cory. You must be kidding with such nonsense.

"The evidence indicates that the autopsy photographs and X-rays were taken of President Kennedy at the time of his autopsy and that they had not been altered in any manner." -- HSCA Volume 7, Page 41 [Emphasis added by DVP.]

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Guest]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:24 PM, Cory Santos said:

5. Interaction with a higher intelligence or a higher level of reality - perhaps a manipulative "control system" as postulated by Jacques Vallee - is a plausible explanation.
 

Are you referring to God?   Angels?

 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Guest]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:43 PM, David Von Pein said:

Oh for Pete sake, Cory. You must be kidding with such nonsense.

"The evidence indicates that the autopsy photographs and X-rays were taken of President Kennedy at the time of his autopsy and that they had not been altered in any manner."
-- HSCA Volume 7, Page 41 [Emphasis added by DVP.]

 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Pat Speer]

17 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

I did have the one incident I previously mentioned, between Las Vegas and Kingman in 1971. A weird little craft followed the car I was driving at close range in late afternoon for about two minutes. My passenger, a hard-nosed skeptic from Chicago, and I both somehow instantly recognized this was Something Weird and not just a "funny-looking airplane." As with many UFO incidents, there was also a mind-manipulation or "psychic" aspect that tells me this wasn't a mundane event. At that time, I would've said "alien craft." Now I would say, "I really don't know what was going on." Of all the events in my life, this is probably the one I remember as though it had happened yesterday, right down to every thought in my head and every word that was spoken. The one thing I can't remember with great clarity is the craft itself, as though this has somehow been masked. I remember it was dark and angular - not a disk - but beyond that I'm a blank even though it was only about 50-75 yards away the entire time.

Thanks for sharing. I think we are alike in that we both take pride in being reasonable but have experienced events that have made us question certain aspects of everyday life. When I was near death in the hospital almost two years ago now I was visited by ghosts. My rational brain says I was probably hallucinating but I can't declare that with total conviction--it felt pretty real at the time. 

[Charles Blackmon]

58 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

5. Interaction with a higher intelligence or a higher level of reality - perhaps a manipulative "control system" as postulated by Jacques Vallee - is a plausible explanation.
 

Are you referring to God?   Angels?

 

I think he's referring to demons. I know people who subscribe to this belief; I am undecided.

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Vallee certainly isn't. As unlikely as it may seem, however, "the demonic" is now taken very seriously within some segments of serious ufology. It used to be limited to fundamentalist religious leaders, but not anymore. What one means by "god," "angels" and "demons" can, of course, encompass a wide spectrum of divergent views. I'm certainly open to the idea that the UFO phenomenon may be "fundamentally deceptive and manipulative, and not what it seems on the surface."

Vallee was talking about a higher intelligence - perhaps alien, perhaps operating at a higher level of reality - that is using the phenomenon to manipulate humanity for unknown purposes, perhaps benign and perhaps not.

Stanislaw Lem said the point of his great novel Solaris (much better than the Hollywood film, although the Russian version is very faithful) is that, if we ever encounter a non-human intelligence, we likely will never understand what it is doing or why and may not even realize we've encountered it.

Go read the Omega Conspiracy by reverend IDE Thomas.  I found it fascinating.  

[David Von Pein]

My congratulations go out to Fred Litwin for writing a very good book ("Oliver Stone's Film-Flam" ), which IMO successfully rips to shreds virtually every conspiracy theory put forth in the Stone/DiEugenio 2021 documentary film, "JFK: Destiny Betrayed". Nice job, Fred.

My favorite quote in "Oliver Stone's Film-Flam" is the one below. Heck, I could almost swear that I was the author of this spot-on excerpt:

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Guest]

On 1/28/2023 at 10:53 PM, David Von Pein said:

My congratulations go out to Fred Litwin for writing a very good book ("Oliver Stone's Film-Flam" ), which IMO successfully rips to shreds virtually every conspiracy theory put forth in the Stone/DiEugenio 2021 documentary film, "JFK: Destiny Betrayed". Nice job, Fred.

My favorite quote in "Oliver Stone's Film-Flam" is the one below. Heck, I could almost swear that I was the author of this spot-on excerpt:

 

 

Hi

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Gerry Down]

4 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

This, of course, greatly understates the case. In Jim's dark corner of Conspiracy World, the RFK and MLK assassinations were likewise multi-faceted conspiracies in which everyone and everything connected with the official story is fake.

A point that cannot be emphasized too often: For Stone, Jim, Newman and Morley, the quest isn't about the JFKA assassination at all. The evidence is not what's driving the bus.

What's driving the bus is a political ideology: The Deep State is the explanation for everything that has occurred over the past 60 years. Oswald and the JFKA must be force-fit into a Deep State narrative no matter where the evidence and rationality actually point.

If Carlos Marcello were actually responsible for the JFKA - a far more plausible scenario - Stone and Jim would be bitterly disappointed and would resist this truth as strenuously as they resist the Lone Nut explanation.

If fellow CTers would recognize this hucksterism for what it is and laugh at these characters, the CT community would be a far healthier place.

 

I thought deep state was a right wing conspiracy. So its left wing too? Both sides believe in the deep state?

[Guest]

On 1/28/2023 at 8:05 PM, Cory Santos said:

Go read the Omega Conspiracy by reverend IDE Thomas.  I found it fascinating.  

Hi

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Guest]

On 1/29/2023 at 8:01 AM, Gerry Down said:

I thought deep state was a right wing conspiracy. So its left wing too? Both sides believe in the deep state?

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Guest]

Bye

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Matthew Koch]

28 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

My final UFO point, which really is JFKA-related: My familiarity with the "Roswell UFO crash" of 1947 is at least as deep as my familiarity with the JFKA. The parallels between these two events are astonishing.

Everything that Roswell has spawned has its direct counterpart in the JFKA. Everything.

The official story. Credible, high-level witnesses who counter the official story. Congressional inquiries. Lost and unreleased documents. A supposed cabal of government insiders who guard The Truth. Seemingly credible witnesses with no obvious motive to lie who come out of the woodwork with clocklike regularity and are exposed as complete frauds, yet some continue to believe them. Bombshell evidence that proves to be entirely bogus, yet some continue to believe it. Serious researchers trying to do serious research. A lunatic-fringe conspiracy community for whom no claim is too outlandish. Books and books and books by reputable authors and hucksters alike. Opinion polls showing at least a third of Americans believe a UFO crashed. A veritable Roswell cottage industry.

For those for whom the JFKA is their only exposure to this sort of thing, familiarity with Roswell and all that swirls around it might be quite eye-opening and bring a new perspective to the JFKA.

Has anyone brought up the declassification of Area 51 and the fact that the CIA was doing U-2 work there? 

https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/area-51-its-purpose-declassified-no-ufos-lots-u-2-6c10931555