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Jack Ruby at Parkland Hospital


Gil Jesus

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Going back to Ruby’s statement about his motive for killing Oswald, was the choice of Lyndon Johnson as VP an insurance policy from the very beginning? Is there a reliable account on how that came to be? Caro? Theodore White?

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Let us examine what exactly Seth Kantor said in his Warren Commission testimony taken on June 2nd, 1964, that the Commission used to determine that Kantor was most likely confused about meeting Jack Ruby at Parkland at approximate 1:30 PM on 11,22,1963 and that in their final finding stated this meeting did not happen.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, can you tell us what happened when you saw Ruby--when you encountered Ruby at Parkland Hospital, what the encounter consisted of?
 

Mr. KANTOR. Yes; I apparently walked right past him, because the first I was aware of Jack Ruby was that as I was walking, I was stopped momentarily by a tug on the back of my jacket.

And I turned and saw Jack Ruby standing there. He had his hand extended. I very well remember my first thought. I thought, well, there is Jack Ruby. I had been away from Dallas 18 months and 1 day at that time, but it seemed just perfectly normal to see Jack Ruby standing there, because he was a known goer to events. And I had my mind full of many things.


My next reaction was to just turn and continue on my way. But he did have his hand out. And I took his hand and shook hands with him. He called me by name. And I said hello to him, I said, "Hello, Jack," I guess. And he said, "Isn't this a terrible thing?" I said, "Yes"; but I also knew it was no time for small talk, and I was most anxious to continue on up the stairway, because I was standing right at the base of the stairway.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you inside the building or outside?
Mr. KANTOR. I was inside the building, just immediately inside the building.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were the doors guarded?
Mr. KANTOR. If there was a guard on the door, I don't recall seeing one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you do recall, however, that there was a guard at the entrance to the emergency area?
Mr. KANTOR. There was at least one guard, yes--when I first got there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Go ahead.


Mr. KANTOR. A Dallas policeman. I am not sure how many Secret Service men or other guards there were. But I do remember this one man, because he let me in.


At any rate, Jack Ruby said, "Isn't this a terrible thing," or words to that effect. I agreed with him that it was.
And he said--and he had quite a look of consternation on his face. He looked emotional---which also seemed fitting enough for Jack Ruby.


But he asked me, curiously enough, he said, "Should I close my places for the next 3 nights, do you think?"
And I said, "Yes, I think that is a good idea."
And I excused myself. And he said he understood, and I went on. And that was the sum total of it.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this: At the time you were out at Parkland

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Hospital, did you see any other press representatives whom you had remembered from your days in Dallas, who worked in Dallas?
Mr. KANTOR. I didn't see any outside. However, by the time Kilduff made his announcement at 1:30, there were newsmen coming in from all over whom I recognized. And because of this weird situation, unreal situation, I didn't speak to any then.
During the next hour or so that I was in the hospital I saw a number of news people from both Dallas and Fort Worth who I at least said hello to, who I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if there were any people from the Dallas Morning News that you saw at Parkland Hospital, either reporters or photographers?
Mr. KANTOR. I can tell you who I remember seeing, and I don't think I recall seeing a Dallas Morning News person at all until I got to the police station later that afternoon.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You are going to tell me who you remember seeing from the Dallas papers at Parkland Hospital, or just who you generally remember seeing during those 3 days.
Mr. KANTOR. I can tell you who I can remember seeing in the makeshift press headquarters from Dallas and Fort Worth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At Parkland?
Mr. KANTOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. But I take it you don't remember anybody from the Morning News?
Mr. KANTOR. I don't recall anyone from the Dallas Morning News, no, as a matter of fact.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. How far is the Morning News Building in Dallas from the Times Herald Building?
Mr. KANTOR. The better part of a mile.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you saw Ruby, did you notice anybody with him? Did he seem to be with anybody?
Mr. KANTOR. He didn't seem to be with anybody. The only other people I noticed in this area--as I say, it seemed like a small entranceway, and it was just a very few steps to the stairway--were these people who appeared to be hospital attendants.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall if at the time you were at Parkland Hospital there were television cameras setup outside the main entranceway?
Mr. KANTOR. No. I was told later on that various people around the country who I know saw me on television as I came out to talk to the Congressmen before they went out to Love Field, and I was not aware of any cameras.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But it is your best impression that you were shown on TV?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I have been told that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you any idea what TV networks you appeared on?
Mr. KANTOR. No, sir; none.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now--
Mr. KANTOR. This happened frequently, incidentally, over the weekend, also, in the police station as well. I don't know--I guess all the networks were involved at one point or another, but I don't know when or where.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In ,the first report that you made of this encounter with Ruby, you reported that you saw him before you went to the press conference.
Mr. KANTOR. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And now as I understand your testimony, you are not sure whether it was before or after.


Mr. KANTOR. Yes; and the thing that gave me pause was that Jack Ruby had specifically said to me, or asked me my opinion about closing his places for three nights, and it occurred to me later on that no announcement of the President's death had been made. as I was following Kilduff up the stairway, at 1:30, whereas at approximately 2 o'clock it had been made.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you try to focus on your state of mind at the time that you first wrote your newspaper article about this, and reported that it was before the press conference. What was it at that time that made you think that you saw Ruby before the press conference?

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Mr. KANTOR. To be honest, with all the events crowded into that weekend, I don't think that I recalled the significance of my second brief trip out of the hospital to the main entranceway in front of the hospital, and then back in again. It was a very fast trip. And I think it was just a failure on my part to remember the second incident.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. As you were going back into the hospital the second time, where were you going?
Mr. KANTOR. I was returning to the makeshift press headquarters in the classroom, on the second floor.
Mr. GRIFFIN. As you were entering that building, did you have any expectation that there was something important going on at that pressroom that you ought to get to right away?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I didn't know. I knew that I was not going with this pool group, and that my people in Washington were interested in knowing the logistics of the U.S. Government at that moment, where Lyndon Johnson was going and what was going to happen, and were we remaining in Dallas, and John Connally's condition, and everything at once. And this seemed to be the logical place to get whatever information there was, because information was very scanty.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What I want to get at is whether your concern or apprehension about getting into the building was any greater as you went in before the press conference than it was when you returned after the press conference.
Mr. KANTOR. No; I would I say this was a consistent feeling.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So that your reluctance to stop and talk with Ruby when you saw him wouldn't have been any greater at one time than at another?
Mr. KANTOR. Oh, no. I saw really a number of close friends on the second floor of the hospital, newspapermen who I had known intimately, been to their house, and they had been to my house quite often. And we still didn't indulge in anything resembling small talk.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, do you have any question in your mind that you did see Ruby out at Parkland Hospital?


Mr. KANTOR.   >>>   If it was a matter of just seeing him, I would have long ago been full of doubt. But I did talk to the man, and he did stop me, and I just can't have any doubt about that.  <<<


Mr. GRIFFIN. Now---
Mr. KANTOR. As a matter of fact, I didn't give it much thought, or any thought, perhaps, again, concrete thought at least, until the following night, Saturday night, when things quieted down enough so that I could take a walk in downtown Dallas, somewhere around 10 o'clock in the evening. And I passed by Ruby's place, the Carousel, and saw a sign on the door stating that it was closed. And I recalled this weird conversation I had had with him at the hospital.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Now--
Mr. KANTOR. Excuse me because a man named Barney Weinstein, who operates a strip joint a couple of doors away, had his place open.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first think about this again after Saturday?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I understood later on that Jack Ruby had been in the assembly room in the basement of the Dallas Police Station after midnight on Friday going into Saturday. I didn't see him at that time. I was in that room. It was a very crowded room. But I thought about our conversation on Saturday when I passed by his place. And earlier Saturday evening I thought of Jack Ruby because meat sandwiches, beef sandwiches, I believe they were, had shown up in the pressroom of the Dallas Police Station, and I heard someone remark
that Jack Ruby had brought them in. I didn't see him then, either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You heard this while you were at the police station?
Mr. KANTOR. Yes; Well, I was going in the room to get a sandwich, and they were gone, they were gone very rapidly. I heard someone either specifically say it to me or I heard someone specifically saying, to someone else that Jack Ruby was the person that brought these in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that Friday afternoon or late Friday evening, or in the middle of Friday?

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Mr. KANTOR. I am not sure now. It seems to me that it was Saturday. It seems to me that it was Saturday, late afternoon.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, when, after you walked down Commerce Street on Saturday night did you next think about your encounter with Ruby at Parkland Hospital?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, having walked past his place, and having seen that it was closed, I don't know whether I gave it any more thought.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean after that, when was the next time you thought about it?
Mr. KANTOR. The next time was just moments after 11:21 a.m., Sunday morning, when I discovered that Jack Ruby had shot Oswald.

 

 

 

Edited by Joe Bauer
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1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

Would you care to say why you think journalist Kantor “worked for the murderers”? Do you have some reason to support that? 

How did you ever get that idea? I was rebutting Richard Bertolino’s claims about Kantor. I have no reason to doubt that Kantor is sincere.

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34 minutes ago, Kevin Balch said:

How did you ever get that idea? I was rebutting Richard Bertolino’s claims about Kantor. I have no reason to doubt that Kantor is sincere.

Oh man I apologize Kevin! I meant the question to Bertolino.

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5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Oh man I apologize Kevin! I meant the question to Bertolino.

No worries.

As I mentioned previously, it would seem that Ruby being at Parkland at about the time Oswald was headed in a direction that conceivably could indicate he was going to Ruby’s apartment would cut off speculation of a Ruby-Oswald connection. Gerald Ford had mentioned this in a memo about where Oswald might have been headed so they were aware if this.

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17 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Kantor "worked for the murderers ... scheming and murdering before any of us were born... ?"

That's a rather serious charge there Richard. Would you care to say why you think Kantor was involved in the assassination of Kennedy? Reasons for your belief? 

You misquoted me, of course. Is there an ignore function on here? There needs to be.

 

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13 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Let us examine what exactly Seth Kantor said in his Warren Commission testimony taken on June 2nd, 1964, that the Commission used to determine that Kantor was most likely confused about meeting Jack Ruby at Parkland at approximate 1:30 PM on 11,22,1963 and that in their final finding they stated this meeting did not happen.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, can you tell us what happened when you saw Ruby--when you encountered Ruby at Parkland Hospital, what the encounter consisted of?
 

Mr. KANTOR. Yes; I apparently walked right past him, because the first I was aware of Jack Ruby was that as I was walking, I was stopped momentarily by a tug on the back of my jacket.

And I turned and saw Jack Ruby standing there. He had his hand extended. I very well remember my first thought. I thought, well, there is Jack Ruby. I had been away from Dallas 18 months and 1 day at that time, but it seemed just perfectly normal to see Jack Ruby standing there, because he was a known goer to events. And I had my mind full of many things.


My next reaction was to just turn and continue on my way. But he did have his hand out. And I took his hand and shook hands with him. He called me by name. And I said hello to him, I said, "Hello, Jack," I guess. And he said, "Isn't this a terrible thing?" I said, "Yes"; but I also knew it was no time for small talk, and I was most anxious to continue on up the stairway, because I was standing right at the base of the stairway.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you inside the building or outside?
Mr. KANTOR. I was inside the building, just immediately inside the building.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were the doors guarded?
Mr. KANTOR. If there was a guard on the door, I don't recall seeing one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you do recall, however, that there was a guard at the entrance to the emergency area?
Mr. KANTOR. There was at least one guard, yes--when I first got there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Go ahead.


Mr. KANTOR. A Dallas policeman. I am not sure how many Secret Service men or other guards there were. But I do remember this one man, because he let me in.


At any rate, Jack Ruby said, "Isn't this a terrible thing," or words to that effect. I agreed with him that it was.
And he said--and he had quite a look of consternation on his face. He looked emotional---which also seemed fitting enough for Jack Ruby.


But he asked me, curiously enough, he said, "Should I close my places for the next 3 nights, do you think?"
And I said, "Yes, I think that is a good idea."
And I excused myself. And he said he understood, and I went on. And that was the sum total of it.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this: At the time you were out at Parkland

80



Hospital, did you see any other press representatives whom you had remembered from your days in Dallas, who worked in Dallas?
Mr. KANTOR. I didn't see any outside. However, by the time Kilduff made his announcement at 1:30, there were newsmen coming in from all over whom I recognized. And because of this weird situation, unreal situation, I didn't speak to any then.
During the next hour or so that I was in the hospital I saw a number of news people from both Dallas and Fort Worth who I at least said hello to, who I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if there were any people from the Dallas Morning News that you saw at Parkland Hospital, either reporters or photographers?
Mr. KANTOR. I can tell you who I remember seeing, and I don't think I recall seeing a Dallas Morning News person at all until I got to the police station later that afternoon.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You are going to tell me who you remember seeing from the Dallas papers at Parkland Hospital, or just who you generally remember seeing during those 3 days.
Mr. KANTOR. I can tell you who I can remember seeing in the makeshift press headquarters from Dallas and Fort Worth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At Parkland?
Mr. KANTOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. But I take it you don't remember anybody from the Morning News?
Mr. KANTOR. I don't recall anyone from the Dallas Morning News, no, as a matter of fact.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. How far is the Morning News Building in Dallas from the Times Herald Building?
Mr. KANTOR. The better part of a mile.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you saw Ruby, did you notice anybody with him? Did he seem to be with anybody?
Mr. KANTOR. He didn't seem to be with anybody. The only other people I noticed in this area--as I say, it seemed like a small entranceway, and it was just a very few steps to the stairway--were these people who appeared to be hospital attendants.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall if at the time you were at Parkland Hospital there were television cameras setup outside the main entranceway?
Mr. KANTOR. No. I was told later on that various people around the country who I know saw me on television as I came out to talk to the Congressmen before they went out to Love Field, and I was not aware of any cameras.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But it is your best impression that you were shown on TV?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I have been told that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you any idea what TV networks you appeared on?
Mr. KANTOR. No, sir; none.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now--
Mr. KANTOR. This happened frequently, incidentally, over the weekend, also, in the police station as well. I don't know--I guess all the networks were involved at one point or another, but I don't know when or where.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In ,the first report that you made of this encounter with Ruby, you reported that you saw him before you went to the press conference.
Mr. KANTOR. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And now as I understand your testimony, you are not sure whether it was before or after.


Mr. KANTOR. Yes; and the thing that gave me pause was that Jack Ruby had specifically said to me, or asked me my opinion about closing his places for three nights, and it occurred to me later on that no announcement of the President's death had been made. as I was following Kilduff up the stairway, at 1:30, whereas at approximately 2 o'clock it had been made.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you try to focus on your state of mind at the time that you first wrote your newspaper article about this, and reported that it was before the press conference. What was it at that time that made you think that you saw Ruby before the press conference?

81



Mr. KANTOR. To be honest, with all the events crowded into that weekend, I don't think that I recalled the significance of my second brief trip out of the hospital to the main entranceway in front of the hospital, and then back in again. It was a very fast trip. And I think it was just a failure on my part to remember the second incident.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. As you were going back into the hospital the second time, where were you going?
Mr. KANTOR. I was returning to the makeshift press headquarters in the classroom, on the second floor.
Mr. GRIFFIN. As you were entering that building, did you have any expectation that there was something important going on at that pressroom that you ought to get to right away?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I didn't know. I knew that I was not going with this pool group, and that my people in Washington were interested in knowing the logistics of the U.S. Government at that moment, where Lyndon Johnson was going and what was going to happen, and were we remaining in Dallas, and John Connally's condition, and everything at once. And this seemed to be the logical place to get whatever information there was, because information was very scanty.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What I want to get at is whether your concern or apprehension about getting into the building was any greater as you went in before the press conference than it was when you returned after the press conference.
Mr. KANTOR. No; I would I say this was a consistent feeling.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So that your reluctance to stop and talk with Ruby when you saw him wouldn't have been any greater at one time than at another?
Mr. KANTOR. Oh, no. I saw really a number of close friends on the second floor of the hospital, newspapermen who I had known intimately, been to their house, and they had been to my house quite often. And we still didn't indulge in anything resembling small talk.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, do you have any question in your mind that you did see Ruby out at Parkland Hospital?


Mr. KANTOR.   >>>   If it was a matter of just seeing him, I would have long ago been full of doubt. But I did talk to the man, and he did stop me, and I just can't have any doubt about that.  <<<


Mr. GRIFFIN. Now---
Mr. KANTOR. As a matter of fact, I didn't give it much thought, or any thought, perhaps, again, concrete thought at least, until the following night, Saturday night, when things quieted down enough so that I could take a walk in downtown Dallas, somewhere around 10 o'clock in the evening. And I passed by Ruby's place, the Carousel, and saw a sign on the door stating that it was closed. And I recalled this weird conversation I had had with him at the hospital.


Mr. GRIFFIN. Now--
Mr. KANTOR. Excuse me because a man named Barney Weinstein, who operates a strip joint a couple of doors away, had his place open.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first think about this again after Saturday?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I understood later on that Jack Ruby had been in the assembly room in the basement of the Dallas Police Station after midnight on Friday going into Saturday. I didn't see him at that time. I was in that room. It was a very crowded room. But I thought about our conversation on Saturday when I passed by his place. And earlier Saturday evening I thought of Jack Ruby because meat sandwiches, beef sandwiches, I believe they were, had shown up in the pressroom of the Dallas Police Station, and I heard someone remark
that Jack Ruby had brought them in. I didn't see him then, either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You heard this while you were at the police station?
Mr. KANTOR. Yes; Well, I was going in the room to get a sandwich, and they were gone, they were gone very rapidly. I heard someone either specifically say it to me or I heard someone specifically saying, to someone else that Jack Ruby was the person that brought these in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that Friday afternoon or late Friday evening, or in the middle of Friday?

82



Mr. KANTOR. I am not sure now. It seems to me that it was Saturday. It seems to me that it was Saturday, late afternoon.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, when, after you walked down Commerce Street on Saturday night did you next think about your encounter with Ruby at Parkland Hospital?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, having walked past his place, and having seen that it was closed, I don't know whether I gave it any more thought.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean after that, when was the next time you thought about it?
Mr. KANTOR. The next time was just moments after 11:21 a.m., Sunday morning, when I discovered that Jack Ruby had shot Oswald.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting JB.

I have seen the video of Kantor also. 

Sure seems like Kantor met Ruby at Parkland. 

 

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Is there anything in the Warren Report that discusses why Ruby was deemed more credible than Kantor? Did Kantor testify regarding any other aspect of the assassination that had to be discredited?

The only thing I can think of was that they wanted to cut off speculation that Ruby planted CE399.

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22 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first think about this again after Saturday?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I understood later on that Jack Ruby had been in the assembly room in the basement of the Dallas Police Station after midnight on Friday going into Saturday. I didn't see him at that time. I was in that room. It was a very crowded room. But I thought about our conversation on Saturday when I passed by his place. And earlier Saturday evening I thought of Jack Ruby because meat sandwiches, beef sandwiches, I believe they were, had shown up in the pressroom of the Dallas Police Station, and I heard someone remark
that Jack Ruby had brought them in. I didn't see him then, either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You heard this while you were at the police station?
Mr. KANTOR. Yes; Well, I was going in the room to get a sandwich, and they were gone, they were gone very rapidly. I heard someone either specifically say it to me or I heard someone specifically saying, to someone else that Jack Ruby was the person that brought these in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that Friday afternoon or late Friday evening, or in the middle of Friday?

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Mr. KANTOR. I am not sure now. It seems to me that it was Saturday. It seems to me that it was Saturday, late afternoon.

The late night Dallas PD building crowd seemed to have been a constantly hungry bunch.

For years, on his way to pop into the DPD to shoot the bull, usually late at night, Ruby would stop at his favorite deli and have them make lots of sandwiches which he would then bring to his police buddies there. Damn good sandwiches it's been reported. 

Ruby was still doing this up until the day before he whacked Lee Harvey Oswald in the DPD basement garage. 

Hey, here he comes! Jack, you got any corn beef on rye there for me?

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As I said earlier, Seth Kantor changed the time at which he allegedly saw Jack Ruby at Parkland Hospital from 1:30 to 2:00 pm, as the attached file demonstrates.

 

Edited by Richard Bertolino
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On 4/18/2024 at 12:35 AM, Richard Bertolino said:

As I said earlier, Seth Kantor changed the time at which he allegedly saw Jack Ruby at Parkland Hospital from 1:30 to 2:00 pm, as the attached file demonstrates.

 

And Oswald's arrest report says that he was arrested at 1:40 pm. And according to the FBI statement by Applin, considering that the main feature started at 1:20, the arrest began at about 1:30. This was the actual time of arrest, and Kantor's first time, 1:30, gives Ruby an alibi for not being at the Texas Theatre.

 

Edited by Richard Bertolino
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On 4/18/2024 at 12:58 AM, Richard Bertolino said:

And Oswald's arrest report says that he was arrested at 1:40 pm. And according to the FBI statement by Applin, considering that the main feature started at 1:20, the arrest began at about 1:30. This was the actual time of arrest, and Kantor's first time, 1:30, gives Ruby an alibi for not being at the Texas Theatre.

 

But, because the time of arrest was faked to be at 1:50, according to the radio traffic, the FBI needed Kantor to give a new alibi time of 2:00.

Edited by Richard Bertolino
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On 4/18/2024 at 1:01 AM, Richard Bertolino said:

But, because the time of arrest was faked to be at 1:50, according to the radio traffic, the FBI needed Kantor to give a new alibi time of 2:00.

It 's so good not being misquoted! So, what I'm saying is that Oswald's time of arrest was faked, per the plan, in real time in order to create the radio traffic evidence "proving" the later time, and that Kantor was persuaded to lie about seeing Ruby at Parkland and then to change the time of his Ruby sighting in order to align Ruby's alibi with the faked later time of arrest. The only reason I can see for faking the time of arrest, though there may have been other reasons I don't know about, was to provide an alibi for the motorcycle officer coming out of the Texas Theatre with Oswald. With the later arrest time, he could not be the same officer seen at Parkland Hospital. With the actual arrest time, this officer has no alibi. Yes, he changed his helmet.

 

Edited by Richard Bertolino
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