Interview with lady who met two different Oswalds

[Joe Bauer]

10 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

There is a train of thought that one of the "Oswalds" that Kittrell encountered was Larry Crawford as he was unemployed in this time frame and only began working for Jack Ruby in mid Oct 1963.

That postulation makes sense.

 

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 7:05 AM, Joe Bauer said:

That postulation makes sense.

 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Paul Brancato]

On 2/6/2023 at 4:59 PM, Lance Payette said:

That's right, the geniuses who ran the Harvey and Lee scam sent both Harvey and Lee to the same woman at the Texas Employment Commission! Ballsy! That might've seemed unduly risky to me, but what do I know? I'm stuck in the dull world of rationality and things like that.

More on the lovely Laura: https://www.joshuablubuhs.com/blog/laura-frances-kittrell-as-a-fortean. Bingo - the UFO connection! Somehow, I knew it.

Bingo? That’s funny. Do you think people who investigate UFO sightings are loony? Irrational? The article paints Laura as someone interested in truth, and willing to entertain the notion that the media, or the authorities, don’t necessarily give us that. I hold my own counsel. Don’t you? 

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 7:49 AM, Paul Brancato said:

Bingo? That’s funny. Do you think people who investigate UFO sightings are loony? Irrational? The article paints Laura as someone interested in truth, and willing to entertain the notion that the media, or the authorities, don’t necessarily give us that. I hold my own counsel. Don’t you? 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Michael Griffith]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:59 PM, Lance Payette said:

That's right, the geniuses who ran the Harvey and Lee scam sent both Harvey and Lee to the same woman at the Texas Employment Commission! Ballsy! That might've seemed unduly risky to me, but what do I know? I'm stuck in the dull world of rationality and things like that.

More on the lovely Laura: https://www.joshuablubuhs.com/blog/laura-frances-kittrell-as-a-fortean. Bingo - the UFO connection! Somehow, I knew it.

Why would this have been "unduly risky"? At worst, they would have the word of a low-level civil servant that the second person who claimed to be Oswald looked different from the first one. Plus, they could always count on people like you to dismiss all such evidence because it doesn't fit your unrealistic, disingenuous concept of a conspiracy. 

Again, using your logic, law enforcement would never expose any conspiracies unless one of the conspirators came forward and confessed. Yet, if you were doing the investigating, you would reject the whistleblowing conspirator if he held any views on other issues that you viewed as suspect. 

Your paradigm is one giant circular stew. You insist that any JFK assassination conspiracy would have been a flawless one, and then you reject all evidence of conspiracy, no matter how compelling it is, with the argument that the conspiracy you are willing to envision would not have left behind such evidence. How do you suppose dozens of people, some of them very intelligent and successful, are convicted of conspiracy every year in the U.S.? They make mistakes; they overlook certain things; etc., etc.

Ah, and you attack Kittrell because she doubted the Warren Report and may have been interested in UFOs, never mind that she lived a successful life, never got into any trouble, and worked for the state government of Texas.

President Jimmy Carter believed in UFOs--he even claimed he saw one. Vice President Al Gore said he rejected the single-bullet theory. Congressman and presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said he saw a UFO. Most of the members of the House Select Committee on Assassinations believed JFK was killed by a conspiracy. The HSCA chief counsel, Notre Dame law professor G. Robert Blakey, said it was a "historical fact" that the Mafia killed JFK. Senator Richard Schweiker called the Warren Report "a house of cards" and said Oswald had intelligence links. Gallup and Pew Research polling shows that about 2/3 of Americans believe there is life on other planets. And on and on we could go. Ms. Kittrell was in pretty good company. 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Paul Brancato]

34 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Why would this have been "unduly risky"? At worst, they would have the word of a low-level civil servant that the second person who claimed to be Oswald looked different from the first one. Plus, they could always count on people like you to dismiss all such evidence because it doesn't fit your unrealistic, disingenuous concept of a conspiracy. 

Again, using your logic, law enforcement would never expose any conspiracies unless one of the conspirators came forward and confessed. Yet, if you were doing the investigating, you would reject the whistleblowing conspirator if he held any views on other issues that you viewed as suspect. 

Your paradigm is one giant circular stew. You insist that any JFK assassination conspiracy would have been a flawless one, and then you reject all evidence of conspiracy, no matter how compelling it is, with the argument that the conspiracy you are willing to envision would not have left behind such evidence. How do you suppose dozens of people, some of them very intelligent and successful, are convicted of conspiracy every year in the U.S.? They make mistakes; they overlook certain things; etc., etc.

Ah, and you attack Kittrell because she doubted the Warren Report and may have been interested in UFOs, never mind that she lived a successful life, never got into any trouble, and worked for the state government of Texas.

President Jimmy Carter believed in UFOs--he even claimed he saw one. Vice President Al Gore said he rejected the single-bullet theory. Congressman and presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said he saw a UFO. Most of the members of the House Select Committee on Assassinations believed JFK was killed by a conspiracy. The HSCA chief counsel, Notre Dame law professor G. Robert Blakey, said it was a "historical fact" that the Mafia killed JFK. Senator Richard Schweiker called the Warren Report "a house of cards" and said Oswald had intelligence links. Gallup and Pew Research polling shows that about 2/3 of Americans believe there is life on other planets. And on and on we could go. Ms. Kittrell was in pretty good company. 

Bingo.

 

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

Oh, golly, what a grim, humorless and self-important bunch you CTers are. In my experience only true cranks take themselves as grimly seriously as the CT community.

The article on Lovely Laura, which probably no one actually read, is respectful and really quite interesting. It's far from character assassination. But it does make clear she was a "just a bit" odder than the average clerk at the Texas Employment Commission.

I said "Bingo!", you dope, in a jocular vein because I would obviously be subject to precisely the same critique myself - by a factor of at least 100 in comparison to Laura. I was a MUFON State Section Director, for crying out loud. If I were a witness to anything, I'd be roasted and toasted on cross-examination for my longtime involvement in weirdness. I just found it kind of humorous that Laura happened to have started her very own UFO group in addition to being involved in assorted other weirdness.

The overarching point of my post, which you chose to ignore, is that Harvey & Lee is too bizarre to take seriously. Before we ever reach the point of concerning ourselves with Laura's bona fides, we have to be way down the path to taking Harvey & Lee seriously. Let's rephrase your questions: "Do you think people who [take Harvey & Lee seriously] are loony? Irrational? Well, ya know ...

Took me a while to see that you are trying to turn Mr. Blackmon’s post into a Harvey and Lee thread. I think I hit a nerve, because you overreacted, called me a dope when I’m anything but, and haven’t called you anything. Examining the possibility that Larry Crafard showed up somewhere claiming to be Oswald needn’t be an attempt at proving Harvey and Lee. Long before Armstrong it was discovered that Oswald had been at least impersonated. And Crafard is a person of extreme interest to many of us because of his association with Jack Ruby, his short stint in Dallas, his proximity to the Tippit murder, and his physical resemblance to Oswald. One does not have to ‘believe’ in some particular conspiracy to question Authority. I think you were both shooting the messenger and creating a straw man. 

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 12:07 PM, Michael Griffith said:

Why would this have been "unduly risky"? At worst, they would have the word of a low-level civil servant that the second person who claimed to be Oswald looked different from the first one. Plus, they could always count on people like you to dismiss all such evidence because it doesn't fit your unrealistic, disingenuous concept of a conspiracy. 

Again, using your logic, law enforcement would never expose any conspiracies unless one of the conspirators came forward and confessed. Yet, if you were doing the investigating, you would reject the whistleblowing conspirator if he held any views on other issues that you viewed as suspect. 

Your paradigm is one giant circular stew. You insist that any JFK assassination conspiracy would have been a flawless one, and then you reject all evidence of conspiracy, no matter how compelling it is, with the argument that the conspiracy you are willing to envision would not have left behind such evidence. How do you suppose dozens of people, some of them very intelligent and successful, are convicted of conspiracy every year in the U.S.? They make mistakes; they overlook certain things; etc., etc.

Ah, and you attack Kittrell because she doubted the Warren Report and may have been interested in UFOs, never mind that she lived a successful life, never got into any trouble, and worked for the state government of Texas.

President Jimmy Carter believed in UFOs--he even claimed he saw one. Vice President Al Gore said he rejected the single-bullet theory. Congressman and presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said he saw a UFO. Most of the members of the House Select Committee on Assassinations believed JFK was killed by a conspiracy. The HSCA chief counsel, Notre Dame law professor G. Robert Blakey, said it was a "historical fact" that the Mafia killed JFK. Senator Richard Schweiker called the Warren Report "a house of cards" and said Oswald had intelligence links. Gallup and Pew Research polling shows that about 2/3 of Americans believe there is life on other planets. And on and on we could go. Ms. Kittrell was in pretty good company. 

 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 12:58 PM, Paul Brancato said:

Took me a while to see that you are trying to turn Mr. Blackmon’s post into a Harvey and Lee thread.

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Sandy Larsen]

On 2/7/2023 at 8:52 AM, Lance Payette said:

I was the one, several years ago, who determined that the number at the top of the Klein's postal money order was, in fact, a File Locator Number [FLN] showing the money order had been processed through the federal system and placed into storage at the records center.

 

Yes, and from the FLN's presence you concluded that the money order was legit.

Which is like concluding that a bad check is legit because somebody signed it with the correct name.

 

And in either case, you'd have to have bank stamps on the instrument to prove that it was cashed. The money order allegedly belonging to Oswald had no bank stamps. It was never cashed.

 

[Guest]

On 2/9/2023 at 6:36 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Which is like concluding that a bad check is legit because somebody signed it with the correct name.

 

On 2/9/2023 at 6:36 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

And in either case, you'd have to have bank stamps on the instrument to prove that it was cashed. The money order allegedly belonging to Oswald had no bank stamps. It was never cashed.

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Sandy Larsen]

20 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Oh, golly, what a grim, humorless and self-important bunch you CTers are. In my experience only true cranks take themselves as grimly seriously as the CT community.

The article on Lovely Laura, which probably no one actually read, is respectful and really quite interesting. It's far from character assassination. But it does make clear she was a "just a bit" odder than the average clerk at the Texas Employment Commission.

I said "Bingo!", you dope, in a jocular vein because I would obviously be subject to precisely the same critique myself - by a factor of at least 100 in comparison to Laura. I was a MUFON State Section Director, for crying out loud. If I were a witness to anything, I'd be roasted and toasted on cross-examination for my longtime involvement in weirdness. I just found it kind of humorous that Laura happened to have started her very own UFO group in addition to being involved in assorted other weirdness.

The overarching point of my post, which you chose to ignore, is that Harvey & Lee is too bizarre to take seriously. Before we ever reach the point of concerning ourselves with Laura's bona fides, we have to be way down the path to taking Harvey & Lee seriously. Let's rephrase your questions: "Do you think people who [take Harvey & Lee seriously] are loony? Irrational? Well, ya know ...

 

Lance,

Kindly remove from the post I've quoted the insult aimed at Paul Brancato.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Which is like concluding that a bad check is legit because somebody signed it with the correct name.

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

Uh, no. It's like concluding a check is legit because it went through the banking system and was entered into the records depository for cancelled checks.

 

Except that the money order never went through the banking system. And you were never able to prove so.

Just because somebody printed an FLN on the money order doesn't mean it was legit. What a ridiculous notion.

 

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

You H&L fans did have to change your entire theory of the money order on the basis of my hour of research, ....

 

Don't flatter yourself. You never changed a thing. The only contribution you made was to discover the name of the number printed on the money order (the FLN). Beyond that, you just speculated and argued against my discoveries.

For anybody interested in what was ultimately found regarding the postal money order, take a look at this thread:

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

Uh, no. It's like concluding a check is legit because it went through the banking system and was entered into the records depository for cancelled checks.

Please fill me in on the "cancelled", as I have zero knowledge on the US bank system regarding a check that's "cancelled"

 

[Guest]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:46 AM, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

Please fill me in on the "cancelled", as I have zero knowledge on the US bank system regarding a check that's "cancelled"

 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette