Could this be an answer to either the Tippit shooting or the Theater incident?

[Matthew Koch]

Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested at the Texas Theater theater with a re bored Smith & Wesson two inch commando model revolver that had been purchased from Seaport Traders, in California and sent by mail to A.J. Hidell.

During an ensuing struggle, Oswald allegedly pulled out this revolver and arresting officers claimed that they heard the hammer from this revolver snap but the gun didn't go off. This has caused some Conspiracy researchers to theorize that Oswald had been given a defective gun that was later switched out with one that works. In 1978 the HSCA firearms panel fired four test cartridges through the Oswald's pistol. Evidently they were unaware that the FBI had fired close to 100 rounds through the gun in an attempt to corroborate if the gun had misfired like the arresting officer claimed, the FBI were unable to make the gun misfire. 

At the scene of the Officer Tippit shooting two types of bullets were found in Tippit : Four Western .38 special and Remington-Peters. The Western .38 shell casings are made for the revolver and the Remington-Peters are made for a .38 special which is a semiautomatic. Interestingly these shells are different lengths and have different diameters. This has caused conspiracy researchers to hypothesis that someone else was a the scene of the Tippet case, and use witnesses who saw more than one person as corroboration.  Dallas police dragged their feet in turning over the shells, when they finally did there were no initials of the officer at the scene on the casings. 

 

In this video we will see that some manufactures of the .38 special (semi auto) do and don't fit into the cylinder of the revolver, during firing tests in the video a couple of times, due to length and diameter of the shell, the gun misfires due to a light primer strike due to the round not being meant for the gun and not properly fitting. 

Thus brings us to two questions does the 1960's Remington-Peters ammo fit in the cylinder? And if it does, does the .38 special (semi auto) ammo cause light primer strikes, and is that the answer to officers claiming they heard the hammer snap in the theater? 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[Benjamin Cole]

Adding to the confusion, after the Tippit shooting, police (Gerald Hill) found shells at the scene. They went on the radio and said they were ".38 automatic" shells. This based on what was written on the bottom of the shell: The word "auto."

Later Oswald’s arrested with a revolver that fires .38 specials, a shell that’s about a quarter inch longer. Besides, they two types of shells are clearly stamped on the bottom. One says, “special,” one says, “ auto.”

I only knew a couple LAPD officers in my 58 years in the city, but I can tell you, the one crime that is serious is the murder of a fellow officer. That makes sense and has to be.

Add on, most police officers are very familiar with firearms and ammo. 

It stretches credulity that any police officer anywhere in the US would pick up shells at the scene of the murder of a fellow officer, and not correctly read the word "auto" on the bottom of the shell. This is key evidence in the murder of brother officer. 

The Tippit murder shells, now in evidence as being at the scene of the Tippit murder, do not pass the smell test. 

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The Tippit murder shells, now in evidence as being at the scene of the Tippit murder, do not pass the smell test. 

Nonsense. There's no problem whatsoever with the validity of the bullet shells found at the scene of J.D. Tippit's murder. The only "problem" lies with the conspiracy theorists and their constant inability to fairly and properly evaluate the evidence in the JFK and Tippit cases.

All four of the Tippit bullet shells were conclusively tied to the .38 Smith & Wesson revolver that Lee Harvey Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested inside the Texas Theater—which is an arrest that occurred a mere 35 minutes after Officer Tippit was shot. Which, of course, can only lead to one logical conclusion——Oswald killed Tippit. (With the only other alternative being this very absurd one.)

A key fact concerning the murder of J.D. Tippit that most conspiracy theorists continue to deny to this day is this fact:

The two shell casings found by the two Davis girls have a rock-solid and clear chain of custody after those shells made it into the hands of the Dallas Police Department, with Captain George M. Doughty and Detective C.N. Dhority of the DPD both placing their marks on the one shell (each) that they handled on 11/22/63.

Dale Myers saw and photographed those shells at the National Archives many years ago, with Myers taking note of the markings that exist on the inside lip of each shell. (See pages 267 and 268 of Myers' book "With Malice" [1998 Edition].)

And Myers also points out in his book the fact that each of those police officers (Doughty and Dhority) positively identified those bullet shells (one each) in 1964 (via Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011, on Page 7 and Page 8).

So, even if we were to throw out the two "Poe" bullet shell casings (due to the confusion of whether or not Officer J.M. Poe marked those two shells), it wouldn't make a bit of difference....and everybody (even all CTers) should know why it doesn't make a bit of difference. It's because we know from the witness testimony that there was only ONE gunman at the Tippit murder scene. And, quite obviously, that ONE gunman was only dumping shells on the ground from ONE single gun at Tenth & Patton on 11/22/63.

Therefore, ALL FOUR shells that were found at 10th and Patton (including the two Poe shells) were obviously dropped there by the ONE AND ONLY gunman who shot Officer Tippit. (Why does logic and common sense like this never seem to enter the heads of JFK conspiracists?)

And with respect to Gerald Hill's 11/22/63 radio transmission about the Tippit shells being from an "automatic" weapon, let's hear what Sergeant Hill had to say about that subject in this 1993 interview (fast-forward to 15:05).

Edited February 26, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Nonsense. There's no problem whatsoever with the validity of the bullet shells found at the scene of J.D. Tippit's murder. The only "problem" lies with the conspiracy theorists and their constant inability to fairly and properly evaluate the evidence in the JFK and Tippit cases.

All four of the Tippit bullet shells were conclusively tied to the .38 Smith & Wesson revolver that Lee Harvey Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested inside the Texas Theater—which is an arrest that occurred a mere 35 minutes after Officer Tippit was shot. Which, of course, can only lead to one logical conclusion——Oswald killed Tippit. (With the only other alternative being this very absurd one.)

A key fact concerning the murder of J.D. Tippit that most conspiracy theorists continue to deny to this day is this fact:

The two shell casings found by the two Davis girls have a rock-solid and clear chain of custody after those shells made it into the hands of the Dallas Police Department, with Captain George M. Doughty and Detective C.N. Dhority of the DPD both placing their marks on the one shell (each) that they handled on 11/22/63.

Dale Myers saw and photographed those shells at the National Archives many years ago, with Myers taking note of the markings that exist on the inside lip of each shell. (See pages 267 and 268 of Myers' book "With Malice" [1998 Edition].)

And Myers also points out in his book the fact that each of those police officers (Doughty and Dhority) positively identified those bullet shells (one each) in 1964 (via Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011, on Page 7 and Page 8).

So, even if we were to throw out the two "Poe" bullet shell casings (due to the confusion of whether or not Officer J.M. Poe marked those two shells), it wouldn't make a bit of difference....and everybody (even all CTers) should know why it doesn't make a bit of difference. It's because we know from the witness testimony that there was only ONE gunman at the Tippit murder scene. And, quite obviously, that ONE gunman was only dumping shells on the ground from ONE single gun at Tenth & Patton on 11/22/63.

Therefore, ALL FOUR shells that were found at 10th and Patton (including the two Poe shells) were obviously dropped there by the ONE AND ONLY gunman who shot Officer Tippit. (Why does logic and common sense like this never seem to enter the heads of JFK conspiracists?)

And with respect to Gerald Hill's 11/22/63 radio transmission about the Tippit shells being from an "automatic" weapon, let's hear what Sergeant Hill had to say about that subject in this 1993 interview (fast-forward to 15:05).

Seems to me I have seen another Hill interview in which he said he read "auto" by mistake on the bottom of the "hull." Perhaps he had altered his story over time, like so many witnesses. 

I will try to find the other interview. 

As for evidence in the JFKA, there is a lot to suggest some evidence switching and manipulation--the palm print on the bottom of the M-C rifle for example. CE 399 itself. 

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm

This is Hill's interview with the WC. I only read through it quickly, and did some word searches. Evidently WC'er Belin did not ask Hill about the mistaken radio transmission regarding "automatic" shells. 

That would seem to be an issue that could have been cleared up in the WC deposition. Instead, the topic never came up. 

[Matthew Koch]

19 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Seems to me I have seen another Hill interview in which he said he read "auto" by mistake on the bottom of the "hull." Perhaps he had altered his story over time, like so many witnesses. 

I will try to find the other interview. 

As for evidence in the JFKA, there is a lot to suggest some evidence switching and manipulation--the palm print on the bottom of the M-C rifle for example. CE 399 itself. 

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm

This is Hill's interview with the WC. I only read through it quickly, and did some word searches. Evidently WC'er Belin did not ask Hill about the mistaken radio transmission regarding "automatic" shells. 

That would seem to be an issue that could have been cleared up in the WC deposition. Instead, the topic never came up. 

Ben David is wrong like usual and and doesn't understand the difference in ammunition. Also interesting is how some shells lost chain of custody and were missing the officers initials, which he testified to that he marked on them. 

 

Hale Boggs, a member of the commission, stated that he was confused by the fact that three bullets taken from Tippit's body had been manufactured by Winchester-Western and one bullet had been manufactured by Remington-Peters, and that shells from both manufacturers had been found at the scene. Rankin, the general counsel for the commission, replied, "There is a slight problem here." The commission offered several surreal "possible explanations for this variance" of course, not including the possibility that two men had

been involved, since its oft-repeated mantra, Oswald acted alone, was inviolable.

Instead, in yet another astonishing feat of reverse conjuration, the Warren Commission made Ms. Clemons disappear. –P.26 The Last Word. 

 

Poe's failure to find his initials on the cases, coupled with the fact that the cases were not turned over to the FBI until six days after other inventoried evidence, leaves many researchers with the suspicion that shell cases from Oswald's revolver was substituted for the ones marked by Poe.

To further confuse the issue, the Warren Commission discovered that the shell cases allegedly recovered at the scene of the shooting do not match up with the slugs that were recovered from Tippit's body. The four cases are made up of two of Winchester-Western manufacture and two of Remington-Peters, while of the bullets removed from Tippit, only one is Remington-Peters and three are from Winchester-Western.

Weakly, the Warren Commission attempted to explain this anomaly by surmising that perhaps a fifth shot had been fired but not recovered (most of the witnesses recalled no more than four shots) or that perhaps Oswald already had an expended Remington-Peters case in his pistol prior to shooting Tippit. The Commission even suggested that perhaps ". . . to save money . . . he might have loaded one make of bullet into another make of cartridge case." P.343 Crossfire. 

Although Poe later told the FBI he had indeed marked the cases with his initials, "JMP," the marks could not be found when the cases were examined six months later. While it is possible that Poe forgot to initial the cases, it would have been highly unusual. The lack of identifying marks has bred suspicion that Oswald — at a subsequent stage of the Tippit investigation— was framed, a suspicion encouraged by the way the police produced the cartridge cases.

In a police list of evidence, compiled on the day of the assassination, there was no mention of the Tippit cartridge cases. Other known ballistics evidence was catalogued when it was handed over to the FBI the next day, but the Tippit cartridges were still curiously absent. The same applied to a police property clerks list on November 26. It was only on November 28, nearly a week after the assassination, that the four cartridge cases were handed over to the FBI as a separate package. There has been speculation that the cases originally found were of a different ammunition type to those later produced in evidence.

The gun taken from Oswald when he was arrested was a .38 revolver, not an automatic. At 1:36 P.M., however, a policeman at the scene of the Tippit shooting radioed a description: "I got an eyeball witness to the getaway man— that suspect in this shooting. He is a white male ... apparently armed with a .32, dark finish, automatic pistol.. . ." This description was gleaned from a passer-by, and yet, a few minutes later, another police officer sent a message which should have been reliable: "The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic .38 rather than a pistol." This categorical message, pointing to a gun other than the one found on Oswald, came from Sergeant Gerald Hill, the same officer who reportedly ordered Officer Poe to mark the cartridge cases. In 1963 Detective Hill had years of army experience and police work behind him, a background which gave him a certain expertise. Sergeant Hill may have made his snap judgment on the basis of certain marks which appeared typical of an automatic mechanism, or the position of the cases on the ground may have suggested automatic ejection. Hill's deliberate message, "The shells at the scene indicate .. . an automatic rather than a pistol," suggests that he had noted such characteristics. –P.119 Conspiracy (Anthony Summers)

*To appreciate the injustice described here, it is necessary to understand the difference between an automatic hand gun and a revolver. An automatic contains the bullets in a clip, which it’s inside its handle. Each time the gun is fired, the empty cartridge remaining in the chamber is automatically flipped out by the ejector mechanism as the new cartridge and bullet are pushed up into place by a spring at the bottom of the clip. A revolver, typified in American tradition by the long-barreled weapon of the Old West, holds its cartridges and bullets in a circular, revolving chamber and does not automatically eject each cartridge as fired. One of the major differences between the two weapons is that each time the automatic flips out a used cartridge it leaves only the mark of the firing pin. 
Another difference is that revolvers are usually all metal and have a relatively small gripping handle, whereas an automatic has a large flat handle, which ordinarily has a dark blue metallic finish. 


The bullets found in Officer Tippit’s body and the cartridges found at the scene of his murder yielded further evidence of the frame-up. The Dallas coroner had conducted an autopsy on Tippit’s body and had removed four bullets from it. Three of them, it turned out, were copper – coated and had been manufactured by the Winchester Western company. The fourth, however, was a lead bullet made by the Remingotn-Peters company.

This was awfully strange, I thought, because bullets were never sold in mixed lots. Gun users bought either a box of all Winchesters or one of all Remingtons, but not some of each. The discovery of two different makes of bullets in Tippit’s body indicated to me – and would indicate to most experienced police officers – a likelihood that two different gunmen did the shooting. This was consistent with the eyewitness testimony of Acquilla Clemons and Mr. and Mrs. Wright. When a homicide occurs, it is standard operating procedure for the police homicide division to send off the bullets and cartridges to the F.B.I. laboratory in Washington, D.C. for study and possible identification of the gun that fired them. In this case, the Dallas homicide unit, understandably shy about advertising the coroner’s discovery, sent only one bullet to the F.B.I. lab, informing the Bureau that this was the only bullet found in Tippit’s body. 
To everyone’s surprise, the Bureau lab found that the bullet did not match Oswald’s revolver. When it discovered this oddity, the Warren Commission was inspired to look for other bullets that might match up better. Although the commission never received a copy of Tippit’s autopsy report, somehow it found out that four bullets – rather than merely one – had been found in Tippit’s body. The ordinarily incurious Commission asked the F.B.I. to inquire about the three missing bullets, and they were found – after four months – gathering dust in the files of the Dallas homicide division. 
These bullets were sent to the F.B.I. lab. But Special Agent Courtlandt Cunningham, the ballistics expert from the lab, testified before the Commission that the lab as unable to conclude that any of the four bullets found in Tippit’s body had been fired by the revolver taken from Lee Oswald. 
The cartridges allegedly found at the scene proved even more problematic. While the bullets had initially been under the control of the coroner who found them in Tippit’s body, the cartridges – the metal casings which provide propulsion power to the bullets – were Dallas homicide’s responsibility from the outset. –P.198-200 On the Trail of the assassins. 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[Benjamin Cole]

38 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Ben David is wrong like usual and and doesn't understand the difference in ammunition. Also interesting is how some shells lost chain of custody and were missing the officers initials, which he testified to that he marked on them. 

 

Hale Boggs, a member of the commission, stated that he was confused by the fact that three bullets taken from Tippit's body had been manufactured by Winchester-Western and one bullet had been manufactured by Remington-Peters, and that shells from both manufacturers had been found at the scene. Rankin, the general counsel for the commission, replied, "There is a slight problem here." The commission offered several surreal "possible explanations for this variance" of course, not including the possibility that two men had

been involved, since its oft-repeated mantra, Oswald acted alone, was inviolable.

Instead, in yet another astonishing feat of reverse conjuration, the Warren Commission made Ms. Clemons disappear. –P.26 The Last Word. 

 

Poe's failure to find his initials on the cases, coupled with the fact that the cases were not turned over to the FBI until six days after other inventoried evidence, leaves many researchers with the suspicion that shell cases from Oswald's revolver was substituted for the ones marked by Poe.

To further confuse the issue, the Warren Commission discovered that the shell cases allegedly recovered at the scene of the shooting do not match up with the slugs that were recovered from Tippit's body. The four cases are made up of two of Winchester-Western manufacture and two of Remington-Peters, while of the bullets removed from Tippit, only one is Remington-Peters and three are from Winchester-Western.

Weakly, the Warren Commission attempted to explain this anomaly by surmising that perhaps a fifth shot had been fired but not recovered (most of the witnesses recalled no more than four shots) or that perhaps Oswald already had an expended Remington-Peters case in his pistol prior to shooting Tippit. The Commission even suggested that perhaps ". . . to save money . . . he might have loaded one make of bullet into another make of cartridge case." P.343 Crossfire. 

Although Poe later told the FBI he had indeed marked the cases with his initials, "JMP," the marks could not be found when the cases were examined six months later. While it is possible that Poe forgot to initial the cases, it would have been highly unusual. The lack of identifying marks has bred suspicion that Oswald — at a subsequent stage of the Tippit investigation— was framed, a suspicion encouraged by the way the police produced the cartridge cases.

In a police list of evidence, compiled on the day of the assassination, there was no mention of the Tippit cartridge cases. Other known ballistics evidence was catalogued when it was handed over to the FBI the next day, but the Tippit cartridges were still curiously absent. The same applied to a police property clerks list on November 26. It was only on November 28, nearly a week after the assassination, that the four cartridge cases were handed over to the FBI as a separate package. There has been speculation that the cases originally found were of a different ammunition type to those later produced in evidence.

The gun taken from Oswald when he was arrested was a .38 revolver, not an automatic. At 1:36 P.M., however, a policeman at the scene of the Tippit shooting radioed a description: "I got an eyeball witness to the getaway man— that suspect in this shooting. He is a white male ... apparently armed with a .32, dark finish, automatic pistol.. . ." This description was gleaned from a passer-by, and yet, a few minutes later, another police officer sent a message which should have been reliable: "The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic .38 rather than a pistol." This categorical message, pointing to a gun other than the one found on Oswald, came from Sergeant Gerald Hill, the same officer who reportedly ordered Officer Poe to mark the cartridge cases. In 1963 Detective Hill had years of army experience and police work behind him, a background which gave him a certain expertise. Sergeant Hill may have made his snap judgment on the basis of certain marks which appeared typical of an automatic mechanism, or the position of the cases on the ground may have suggested automatic ejection. Hill's deliberate message, "The shells at the scene indicate .. . an automatic rather than a pistol," suggests that he had noted such characteristics. –P.119 Conspiracy (Anthony Summers)

*To appreciate the injustice described here, it is necessary to understand the difference between an automatic hand gun and a revolver. An automatic contains the bullets in a clip, which it’s inside its handle. Each time the gun is fired, the empty cartridge remaining in the chamber is automatically flipped out by the ejector mechanism as the new cartridge and bullet are pushed up into place by a spring at the bottom of the clip. A revolver, typified in American tradition by the long-barreled weapon of the Old West, holds its cartridges and bullets in a circular, revolving chamber and does not automatically eject each cartridge as fired. One of the major differences between the two weapons is that each time the automatic flips out a used cartridge it leaves only the mark of the firing pin. 
Another difference is that revolvers are usually all metal and have a relatively small gripping handle, whereas an automatic has a large flat handle, which ordinarily has a dark blue metallic finish. 


The bullets found in Officer Tippit’s body and the cartridges found at the scene of his murder yielded further evidence of the frame-up. The Dallas coroner had conducted an autopsy on Tippit’s body and had removed four bullets from it. Three of them, it turned out, were copper – coated and had been manufactured by the Winchester Western company. The fourth, however, was a lead bullet made by the Remingotn-Peters company.

This was awfully strange, I thought, because bullets were never sold in mixed lots. Gun users bought either a box of all Winchesters or one of all Remingtons, but not some of each. The discovery of two different makes of bullets in Tippit’s body indicated to me – and would indicate to most experienced police officers – a likelihood that two different gunmen did the shooting. This was consistent with the eyewitness testimony of Acquilla Clemons and Mr. and Mrs. Wright. When a homicide occurs, it is standard operating procedure for the police homicide division to send off the bullets and cartridges to the F.B.I. laboratory in Washington, D.C. for study and possible identification of the gun that fired them. In this case, the Dallas homicide unit, understandably shy about advertising the coroner’s discovery, sent only one bullet to the F.B.I. lab, informing the Bureau that this was the only bullet found in Tippit’s body. 
To everyone’s surprise, the Bureau lab found that the bullet did not match Oswald’s revolver. When it discovered this oddity, the Warren Commission was inspired to look for other bullets that might match up better. Although the commission never received a copy of Tippit’s autopsy report, somehow it found out that four bullets – rather than merely one – had been found in Tippit’s body. The ordinarily incurious Commission asked the F.B.I. to inquire about the three missing bullets, and they were found – after four months – gathering dust in the files of the Dallas homicide division. 
These bullets were sent to the F.B.I. lab. But Special Agent Courtlandt Cunningham, the ballistics expert from the lab, testified before the Commission that the lab as unable to conclude that any of the four bullets found in Tippit’s body had been fired by the revolver taken from Lee Oswald. 
The cartridges allegedly found at the scene proved even more problematic. While the bullets had initially been under the control of the coroner who found them in Tippit’s body, the cartridges – the metal casings which provide propulsion power to the bullets – were Dallas homicide’s responsibility from the outset. –P.198-200 On the Trail of the assassins. 

 

Plenty to ponder in the Tippit murder---and the WC not asking Hill about the mistaken radio broadcast---seems like a miss under Detective Work 101. Under oath, Hill never discusses automatic shells or hulls. 

Hey, it was the DPD who said they found automatic shells at the scene of the Tippit murder, and broadcast that. 

Hill claims (not under oath) he deduced the shells (hulls) were automatics as they were lying on the ground, as if ejected from an automatic pistol. But, sheesh, anyone would check the bottom. 

I could swear Hill once said he just misread the bottom of the hulls. 

[Charles Blackmon]

Everything I have read on the Tippit killing including McBride's lengthy analysis seems to point to Tippit was looking for somebody in the minutes leading up to his murder. If he was looking for Oswald (seems likely) the question is what purpose did he have for needing to locate him? Was he supposed to whisk Oswald out of town, possibly to Redbird? Or was he supposed to eliminate him?

[Bill Brown]

6 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Everything I have read on the Tippit killing including McBride's lengthy analysis seems to point to Tippit was looking for somebody in the minutes leading up to his murder. If he was looking for Oswald (seems likely) the question is what purpose did he have for needing to locate him? Was he supposed to whisk Oswald out of town, possibly to Redbird? Or was he supposed to eliminate him?

 

"Everything I have read on the Tippit killing including McBride's lengthy analysis seems to point to Tippit was looking for somebody in the minutes leading up to his murder."

 

When is the earliest we hear the stories of James Andrews?  How about Dub Stark and Luis Cortinas?

 

[Matthew Koch]

14 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Hale Boggs, a member of the commission, stated that he was confused by the fact that three bullets taken from Tippit's body had been manufactured by Winchester-Western and one bullet had been manufactured by Remington-Peters, and that shells from both manufacturers had been found at the scene. Rankin, the general counsel for the commission, replied, "There is a slight problem here." The commission offered several surreal "possible explanations for this variance" of course, not including the possibility that two men had

been involved, since its oft-repeated mantra, Oswald acted alone, was inviolable.

Instead, in yet another astonishing feat of reverse conjuration, the Warren Commission made Ms. Clemons disappear. –P.26 The Last Word. 

@Bill BrownHow do you explain that Remington-Peters Bullet? 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[Benjamin Cole]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:28 PM, David Von Pein said:

Nonsense. There's no problem whatsoever with the validity of the bullet shells found at the scene of J.D. Tippit's murder. The only "problem" lies with the conspiracy theorists and their constant inability to fairly and properly evaluate the evidence in the JFK and Tippit cases.

All four of the Tippit bullet shells were conclusively tied to the .38 Smith & Wesson revolver that Lee Harvey Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested inside the Texas Theater—which is an arrest that occurred a mere 35 minutes after Officer Tippit was shot. Which, of course, can only lead to one logical conclusion——Oswald killed Tippit. (With the only other alternative being this very absurd one.)

A key fact concerning the murder of J.D. Tippit that most conspiracy theorists continue to deny to this day is this fact:

The two shell casings found by the two Davis girls have a rock-solid and clear chain of custody after those shells made it into the hands of the Dallas Police Department, with Captain George M. Doughty and Detective C.N. Dhority of the DPD both placing their marks on the one shell (each) that they handled on 11/22/63.

Dale Myers saw and photographed those shells at the National Archives many years ago, with Myers taking note of the markings that exist on the inside lip of each shell. (See pages 267 and 268 of Myers' book "With Malice" [1998 Edition].)

And Myers also points out in his book the fact that each of those police officers (Doughty and Dhority) positively identified those bullet shells (one each) in 1964 (via Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011, on Page 7 and Page 8).

So, even if we were to throw out the two "Poe" bullet shell casings (due to the confusion of whether or not Officer J.M. Poe marked those two shells), it wouldn't make a bit of difference....and everybody (even all CTers) should know why it doesn't make a bit of difference. It's because we know from the witness testimony that there was only ONE gunman at the Tippit murder scene. And, quite obviously, that ONE gunman was only dumping shells on the ground from ONE single gun at Tenth & Patton on 11/22/63.

Therefore, ALL FOUR shells that were found at 10th and Patton (including the two Poe shells) were obviously dropped there by the ONE AND ONLY gunman who shot Officer Tippit. (Why does logic and common sense like this never seem to enter the heads of JFK conspiracists?)

And with respect to Gerald Hill's 11/22/63 radio transmission about the Tippit shells being from an "automatic" weapon, let's hear what Sergeant Hill had to say about that subject in this 1993 interview (fast-forward to 15:05).

In 1986, Hill told researcher Dale Myers that he made the radio call regarding an automatic pistol at the Tippit murder scene. When Hill was asked how he determined that the hulls were 38 caliber, Hill said, “Thirty-eight’s stamped on the bottom of it. I looked on the bottom.”

Hill’s problem is that the bottom of the hull spells out for you what type of 38 it is!  (See Dale Myers, With Malice, p. 261).

The word "auto" is on the bottom of automatic shells (aka hulls). It is hard to miss (see online photos) 

No wonder WC'er David Belin did not ask Hill about what was on the bottom of the shells found near the Tippit murder. 

This sure looks fishy. 

[Gil Jesus]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:28 AM, David Von Pein said:

Nonsense. There's no problem whatsoever with the validity of the bullet shells found at the scene of J.D. Tippit's murder. The only "problem" lies with the conspiracy theorists and their constant inability to fairly and properly evaluate the evidence in the JFK and Tippit cases.

All four of the Tippit bullet shells were conclusively tied to the .38 Smith & Wesson revolver that Lee Harvey Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested inside the Texas Theater—which is an arrest that occurred a mere 35 minutes after Officer Tippit was shot. Which, of course, can only lead to one logical conclusion——Oswald killed Tippit. (With the only other alternative being this very absurd one.)

A key fact concerning the murder of J.D. Tippit that most conspiracy theorists continue to deny to this day is this fact:

The two shell casings found by the two Davis girls have a rock-solid and clear chain of custody after those shells made it into the hands of the Dallas Police Department, with Captain George M. Doughty and Detective C.N. Dhority of the DPD both placing their marks on the one shell (each) that they handled on 11/22/63.

Dale Myers saw and photographed those shells at the National Archives many years ago, with Myers taking note of the markings that exist on the inside lip of each shell. (See pages 267 and 268 of Myers' book "With Malice" [1998 Edition].)

And Myers also points out in his book the fact that each of those police officers (Doughty and Dhority) positively identified those bullet shells (one each) in 1964 (via Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011, on Page 7 and Page 8).

So, even if we were to throw out the two "Poe" bullet shell casings (due to the confusion of whether or not Officer J.M. Poe marked those two shells), it wouldn't make a bit of difference....and everybody (even all CTers) should know why it doesn't make a bit of difference. It's because we know from the witness testimony that there was only ONE gunman at the Tippit murder scene. And, quite obviously, that ONE gunman was only dumping shells on the ground from ONE single gun at Tenth & Patton on 11/22/63.

Therefore, ALL FOUR shells that were found at 10th and Patton (including the two Poe shells) were obviously dropped there by the ONE AND ONLY gunman who shot Officer Tippit. (Why does logic and common sense like this never seem to enter the heads of JFK conspiracists?)

And with respect to Gerald Hill's 11/22/63 radio transmission about the Tippit shells being from an "automatic" weapon, let's hear what Sergeant Hill had to say about that subject in this 1993 interview (fast-forward to 15:05).

https://gil-jesus.com/the-tippit-shells/

[Gil Jesus]

6 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

https://gil-jesus.com/the-tippit-shells/

Mr. Von Pein will cite Bugliosi.

He'll cite Myers.

He'll cite Posner.

Does he cite documents ?

Does he cite exhibits ?

Does he cite testimony ?

No, he doesn't because he knows what the EVIDENCE says.

It's all right here cited and linked for your perusal.

https://gil-jesus.com/the-tippit-shells/

Everything else is ( in his words ) "nonsense."

[David Von Pein]

6 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Does he [DVP] cite documents? Does he cite exhibits? Does he cite testimony? No, he doesn't because he knows what the EVIDENCE says.

Gil Jesus evidently can't (or won't) read. Because I most certainly have cited documents and exhibits (CE2011) in this thread. Such as when I said this:

"And Myers also points out in his book the fact that each of those police officers (Doughty and Dhority) positively identified those bullet shells (one each) in 1964 (via Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011, on Page 7 and Page 8)."

I guess Gil will have to add George Doughty and C.N. Dhority to his Li@rs List now.

But both of those men are no doubt on Gil's mile-long L-list already. Otherwise, Oswald's guilty of killing Tippit.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Tom Gram]

5 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Gil Jesus evidently can't (or won't) read. Because I most certainly have cited documents and exhibits (CE2011) in this thread. Such as when I said this:

"And Myers also points out in his book the fact that each of those police officers (Doughty and Dhority) positively identified those bullet shells (one each) in 1964 (via Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011, on Page 7 and Page 8)."

I guess Gil will have to add George Doughty and C.N. Dhority to his Li@rs List now. (But both of those men are no doubt on Gil's list already. Otherwise, Oswald's guilty of killing Tippit.)

 

Greg Doudna did an interesting write-up on the shells not too long ago. If I recall, part of the gist of it was that Doughty was not deposed by WC, and Dhority was deposed, but he was never asked to identify his initials on the shell.

I’m a bit less suspicious of CE2011 than most WC critics, but it’s certainly a worthless document when it comes to the identification of physical evidence found at a crime scene.

Greg does a great job of highlighting all the problems with the WC (non)investigation into tracing the shells, if anyone’s interested - and there are some pretty big problems. 

 

 

[Charles Blackmon]

If Tippit was looking for Oswald (seems likely) the question is what purpose did he have for needing to locate him? Was he supposed to whisk Oswald out of town, possibly to Redbird? Or was he supposed to eliminate him?