Greg Doudna Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Seeking identification of this Dealey Plaza filmer of the JFK assassination: John T. Martin, Jr. On UTube there is a film of the JFK motorcade at Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination, by one John T. Martin, Jr., Here, posted Dec. 3, 2006, it is 24 seconds, said to be by "Jack Martin" a mail carrier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8dLonVQTRA "Yet another film of JFK's motorcade entering Dealey plaza, then restarting after the shooting, made by another US mail carrier, Jack Martin." Here, same film, posted Dec 10, 2022, now it is 68 seconds, said to be by "John T. Martin, Jr.", a "member of the Dallas Cinema Associates". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg_02sulEss "This is most of John T. Martin Jr.’s film of the events surrounding the assassination. Martin was the closest member of the Dallas Cinema Associates to the assassination. The largely unseen film supposedly shows: -“five men on the Grassy Knoll and in apparent flight after the fatal shot” -“Three or four men, a puff of smoke clearly drifting away from the Grassy Knoll. One man is in the pergola shelter, while three or four are running between the wall and fence towards the RR tracks and then along the base of a longer fence at the top of the slope. Three camera cars are seen with two men in the second camera car, taking pictures towards the running men” -“The same three cars further down elm street, the grassy slope area closer to the underpass and a portion of the fence at the top of the slope” Source: Richard Trask’s “Pictures Of The Pain” Please note that the content shown in this video is not my own, therefore any requests to reproduce the content should be sent to the copyright holders. This film is currently in the public domain, footage courtesy of @DenisMorissetteJFK. The original is apparently still held in a Safety Deposit box in Dallas." Question: who is this individual? Has anyone met him or met anyone who has? Is there anything known of his biography or identification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cummings Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 The John Martin you're referring was from Minnesota and if not mistaken the footage included Oswald in New Orleans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ulrik Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Dunno if you're aware of this thread, Greg, but it seems like a place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Gram Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 To make things even more complicated, there was a legit retired CIA agent named Jack Martin who the CIA thought could be the same guy as the Banister investigator. I’m not 100% sure where I saw the document but I think it was in the Jack Martin folder in the Malcolm Blunt archive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Greg - can you make out anything taking place kn the grassy Knoll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 No, this John Martin, Jr. cannot be the Minneapolis John T. Martin of the Walker/New Orleans film, because this John Martin Jr. is identified in this FBI interview document (which I located after posting the thread) as "Superintendent of Safety, Room 517, United States Post Office Terminal Annex, 207 South Houston Street ... resides at 9846 Shoreview Road, Dallas, Texas". https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58951#relPageId=95 I believe this link answers my own question. As odd as it seems, the identity of names seems to be a coincidence. I see this FBI document does not give a middle initial of "T.", reducing the startle quotient a little on the coincidence down to a manageable level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ulrik Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 So, it was an unknown YouTuber, not Trask, who caused the confusing by adding the "T"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said: Greg - can you make out anything taking place kn the grassy Knoll? Beats me, I haven't looked at it. I was after whether the two John Martin home-films were the same person but evidently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said: So, it was an unknown YouTuber, not Trask, who caused the confusing by adding the "T"? I believe that is correct. If a middle initial could be found for the Dallas John Martin Jr. that would confirm the YouTuber made a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Morissette Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 The copy used in this YT video is mine. It is a 1964 commercial 8mm that I had someone transfered on MP3. The best copy is obviously from Groden which is available on YouTube and on one Groden's DVD that I strongly suggest. Jack T. Martin met with Walker after Lee`s assassination attempt on him, but before the JFK assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Morissette Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 John Martin told Trask that he saw Oswald got into a car about 15 minutes after the assassination, if I`m not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 John Martin Jr. filmed the limousine on Elm Street and Amos Euins on the western wall of the fountain from a nearby location on the east side of the fountain. (3-25-64 memo to file by Dallas FBI agent Kyle Clark, found in the Weisberg Archives) "USA Barefoot Sanders telephonically advised 10:15 A.M. this date that he had received a call from Mr. John Martin, Jr...advising that he was standing near the reflection pool at the time the President was shot...Martin told the USA he was positive the shots came from the Texas School Book Building and that he had so informed an unnamed police officer of this fact." (4-2-64 FBI report, CD897 p.51-53) “Martin said he ran north on Houston Street and stopped at the north end of the reflection pool which lies west of and is adjacent to Houston Street…Martin said he took some movie shots of the President as he passed by on Elm Street. A few seconds after the President had passed and was departing from his view, he heard a loud report and at first thought that it was a firecracker and a few seconds later heard two more reports and then knew it was rifle fire…the shots sounded to him like they came from the Texas School Book Depository.” (2-27-79 interview by Dave Hawkins, as quoted in Pictures of the Pain, p.571) “the shot came over my head, and I looked around to see who was throwing a firecracker. Then a few seconds later there were two more shots…One shot then a space of time, then two more rapidly.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Clark Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 It's kind of a running joke on our Quick Hits podcast how many variations of the J first name and Martin surname associated within the assassination milieu... These are top of mind...I think there are 4 more we found John Martin Jr. - Took film in Dealey Plaza John Martino - CIA asset, Castro prisoner, helped Anti-Castro causes John Martin Sr. - Father, worked at Postal Annex Jean Martin - Pierre LaFitte's (Coup in Dallas) CIA pseudonym in New Orleans John T Martin - Took Film, Walker house & New Orleans Oswald arrest Jack Martin - Alias Ed Suggs, Banister associate James Martin - Manager Six Flags, brought Marina home with him Jim Martin - Attorney at meeting at Ruby's house night of 11/24/63 Jim Martin - Department 03 of CIA Johnny Martin - Dating Serita Odio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Rob Clark said: It's kind of a running joke on our Quick Hits podcast how many variations of the J first name and Martin surname associated within the assassination milieu... These are top of mind...I think there are 4 more we found John Martin Jr. - Took film in Dealey Plaza John Martino - CIA asset, Castro prisoner, helped Anti-Castro causes John Martin Sr. - Father, worked at Postal Annex Jean Martin - Pierre LaFitte's (Coup in Dallas) CIA pseudonym in New Orleans John T Martin - Took Film, Walker house & New Orleans Oswald arrest Jack Martin - Alias Ed Suggs, Banister associate James Martin - Manager Six Flags, brought Marina home with him Jim Martin - Attorney at meeting at Ruby's house night of 11/24/63 Jim Martin - Department 03 of CIA Johnny Martin - Dating Serita Odio Yes, it's a bit crazy. When I first got into this I was astounded that Ruby and Oswald both had connections to Vincent Lee. It turned out there were two. I was also confused as heck by the two Richard Spragues--BOTH of whom worked for the HSCA. It's good, moreover, that you recognize the potential pearl in this deep dive: John T Martin. Some of the mucky-mucks are looking into him as his filming the Walker house and Oswald in New Orleans on the same roll of film seems WAY too big a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Rob Clark said: It's kind of a running joke on our Quick Hits podcast how many variations of the J first name and Martin surname associated within the assassination milieu... These are top of mind...I think there are 4 more we found John Martin Jr. - Took film in Dealey Plaza John Martino - CIA asset, Castro prisoner, helped Anti-Castro causes John Martin Sr. - Father, worked at Postal Annex Jean Martin - Pierre LaFitte's (Coup in Dallas) CIA pseudonym in New Orleans John T Martin - Took Film, Walker house & New Orleans Oswald arrest Jack Martin - Alias Ed Suggs, Banister associate James Martin - Manager Six Flags, brought Marina home with him Jim Martin - Attorney at meeting at Ruby's house night of 11/24/63 Jim Martin - Department 03 of CIA Johnny Martin - Dating Serita Odio Rob, are you sure about a John Martin Sr. working at the Postal Annex, different from Jr. who took the Dealey Plaza film? I think they are the same person, Jr., no Sr. at the Postal Annex. Are you sure there are two (father and son) and not one ("Jr" only)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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