GENERAL Trump Discussion Thread

[Douglas Caddy]

Bail denied.

 

[Steve Thomas]

We know who the leader was.

It was Donald Trump himself.

He made it all up.

His spokesperson said that Trump has not received any word that he will be indicted, let alone arrested.

The DA's office has another witness coming in on Monday, and the Grand Jury only meets on  Mondays and Wednesdays.

Bragg still has to present his case and ask the Grand Jury to submit a bill.

Trump just can't stand not being the center of attention, and just wanted to get everyone all stirred up.

He doesn't care how many people might get hurt in the process.

Steve Thomas

[Benjamin Cole]

Seems to me there should be a "Biden Thread Links" also.

Having "Trump Thread Links" pinned to the top of the EF-JFK indicates the EF-JFK is an "anti-Trump" confection. And certainly the posts on Trump Thread Links sends that message---all headlining EF-JFK. 

I understand many commentators have powerful partisan sentiments. But do we want to alienate--right off the bat---half the potential reading audience?

Why would a Trump supporter, one with an earnest interest in the JFKA, feel comfortable in such a hostile milieu?  

 

[Benjamin Cole]

Further thoughts:

 

Are right-wingers as MAGA?...I don't know.

Is there something wrong with wearing a cap that says, "Make America Great Again." 

Is someone offensive for identifying as a "MAGA person"? 

Is being an ardent Trump supporter better or worse than being an ardent Biden supporter (in the context of the EF-JFK)?

Suppose someone new, with an interest in the JFKA, has reached the EF-JFK.

The first thing they see---the headliner---is "Trump Thread Links," and pictures of prison toilets and so on therein. 

So...is that person, with an interest n the JFK, going to hang around? 

Franky, any thinking person would have reservations (many of Trump Thread Links posts are beneath low brow), and if they are "right wing" or MAGA, they will probably disappear.

Great, you just lost a possible supporter. 

[Benjamin Cole]

15 minutes ago, Kathy Beckett said:

Half?????

Trump links was kept on the front page as a courtesy for the myriad of Trump post over time. Usually, when we move things, there is an option to show a link to the area it is moved to which lasts a few days. Since Trump is a very hot topic, I thought it would be courteous to prove an area so people could easily access it.

 

 

 

Half...about.

46% of popular votes cast in the 2020 election were cast for Trump. 

That's about half. 

You might not see Trump voters represented in the EF-JFK, and you might ask yourself "Why?"

If you headline EF-JFK with "Trump Thread Links" and pictures of prison toilets (and worse, but toilets defines most of the content) ...I imagine most sensible people, right-wing or otherwise, will come away with a rather low opinion of the EF-JFK. 

If you want a reading in audience in the dozens...

 

[Matt Allison]

47 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Seems to me there should be a "Biden Thread Links" also.

Having "Trump Thread Links" pinned to the top of the EF-JFK indicates the EF-JFK is an "anti-Trump" confection.

There's no equivalence between Trump and Biden, because Trump is a traitorous criminal and Biden is not.

RW media can try to pretend otherwise, all day, every day, but it won't make a bit of difference.

Facts matter. 

[Benjamin Cole]

7 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

There's no equivalence between Trump and Biden, because Trump is a traitorous criminal and Biden is not.

RW media can try to pretend otherwise, all day, every day, but it won't make a bit of difference.

Facts matter. 

Matt-

I welcome your contributions to EF.

Others may have roughly the opposite point of view than you, and can cite chapter and verse. 

So...as of now, it is Tucker Carlson carrying the ball on the JFKA. I wish it was the full political spectrum, and for every Tucker Carlson show there was an equal or better Rachel Maddow show. 

As it is, many right-wingers might be turning to EF-JFK, newly interested in the JFK. 

And headlining the EF-JFK...they see prison toilet pictures, and worse. 

Should there even be a "Trump Thread Links" in a forum dedicated to the JFKA?

Why? 

And not a "Biden Thread Links"? Why?

Consider, it is Biden who has implemented rules to deep-six the JFK records in perpetuity....

Just IMHO....

 

[Mark Knight]

Ben:

Other than the JFK Records Act, Biden has ZERO connection to the JFK assassination.

If you wish to discuss current politics. you are MORE than welcome to start a Biden discussion thread...which will then be moved, like the "56 years" thread, to the Political Discussions part of The Education Forum, where it belongs.

It's still PART of The Education Forum, it's just not part of the JFK Assassination Discussion. IT'S WHERE IT BELONGS.

Political Debates - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com)

Bookmark that link. Because I'm pretty sure that's where this thread, which is ONLY supposed to show links to where the Trump discussion threads are to be found, will end up.

We welcome people of every political persuasion to discuss the JFK assassination here. But we have areas to discuss other political issues in OTHER parts of The Education Forum. I don't give a damn if you're pro-or anti- Biden, pro- or anti- Trump, or a thousand other political persuasions. But the JFK Assassination Discussion forum is the place to discuss the JFK assassination ONLY.

WE PROVIDE OTHER DISCUSSION FORUMS FOR THOSE OTHER TOPICS. USE THEM.  

Here's the MAIN link to The Education Forum: Forums - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com)

(I'd wager you've NEVER been there before...it's a big house, check out the other rooms.)

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

There's no equivalence between Trump and Biden, because Trump is a traitorous criminal and Biden is not.

RW media can try to pretend otherwise, all day, every day, but it won't make a bit of difference.

Facts matter. 

Exactly. Facts matter.  Truth matters.

But those of us who have tried to reason with Ben about history and current events know that facts don't matter to Ben.

Ben is a guy who believes in endlessly repeating erroneous opinions that have been debunked by the facts, while ignoring the facts that debunk his opinions.

No one who has studied and understood history and current events would believe that there is any meaningful equivalence between a corrupt, inept grifter like Donald J. Trump and Joe Biden. 

Biden has his faults, but Trump will rank as one of the very worst Presidents in American history-- probably the worst-- down there with Andrew Johnson.

Conversely, Biden will be ranked by knowledgeable scholars as a fairly effective POTUS.

Unfortunately, a significant percentage of the U.S. electorate today is living in a delusional Trump/Fox universe of "alternate facts" -- the MAGA-verse.

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Leslie Sharp]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Further thoughts:

 

Are right-wingers as MAGA?...I don't know.

Is there something wrong with wearing a cap that says, "Make America Great Again." 

Is someone offensive for identifying as a "MAGA person"? 

Is being an ardent Trump supporter better or worse than being an ardent Biden supporter (in the context of the EF-JFK)?

Suppose someone new, with an interest in the JFKA, has reached the EF-JFK.

The first thing they see---the headliner---is "Trump Thread Links," and pictures of prison toilets and so on therein. 

So...is that person, with an interest n the JFK, going to hang around? 

Franky, any thinking person would have reservations (many of Trump Thread Links posts are beneath low brow), and if they are "right wing" or MAGA, they will probably disappear.

Great, you just lost a possible supporter. 

At the risk of referring to an excerpt from a book I co-authored, it happens to be a fairly concise response to your questions.  

Three decades following the assassination of John Kennedy, the America First dogma was resurrected unabashedly by Patrick Joseph Buchanan, who at the time was considered an extreme-right Republican. He would eventually run for US president three times. His 1992 presidential campaign platform centered on “Make America first again.” Included in Buchanan’s defense of what had by then become a relatively controversial ideology promoted by the original America First Committee were the signatures of widely respected Americans on early recruitment posters for the original AFC including Quaker Oats’ Bob Suart, future Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, and an asst. varsity coach at Yale and future Republican congressman, US president and Warren Commission member, Gerald Ford. 

While he is not a household name, the most significant signature on that poster was that of the chairman of the Yale Daily News, Kingman Brewster who had strategized with Charles Lindbergh to create America First. Brewster would later be appointed president of Yale University. In a touch of tragic irony in the investigation into the assassination of John Kennedy, whose father Joe was a committed isolationist and had influenced John to sign on with the AFC, Brewster would later appoint James Angleton’s protégé, Tracy Barnes as special assistant for community relations at Yale when Barnes left the CIA. 

In another run for US president, Buchanan began identifying as a paleo-conservative and traditionalist. In his October 2004 essay for his monthly newsletter, The American Cause,  titled “The Resurrection of America First,” Buchanan reinvigorated the movement, stating that “the achievements of the organization [AFC] are monumental.” 

To his credit, in a piece for the National Review founded by William F. Buckley—whose own attempts to disenfranchise the dangerous fringe of his party, the John Birch Society, had slowed their momentum—fellow conservative writer Windsor Mann summarized, “Buchanan's brand of populist-nationalism is no longer marginal on the right. It is ascendant. A year after National Review released its ‘Against Trump’ issue, it ran a cover story making the case for nationalism. [Fox News pundit] Tucker Carlson discarded his libertarianism in favor of right-wing nanny-statism. Bennett, who accused Buchanan of ‘flirting with fascism,’ supports Trump, who quoted Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, approvingly [stating ‘it's a very good quote’].” According to Mann, Trump made this state of affairs possible, and Buchanan made Trump possible. He writes, “Just as Barry Goldwater's defeat in 1964 precipitated Ronald Reagan's victory in 1980, Buchanan's presidential campaigns in 1992, 1996, and 2000, laid the groundwork for Trump's presidency. His three candidacies exposed fissures on the right and showed Trump that there was an untapped market for nativism, protectionism, and isolationism.”  . . .  Trump would go on to declare, “’America First’ will be the major and overriding theme of my administration.”

Edited March 19, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Benjamin Cole]

19 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

At the risk of referring to an excerpt from a book I co-authored, it happens to be a fairly concise response to your questions.  

Three decades following the assassination of John Kennedy, the America First dogma was resurrected unabashedly by Patrick Joseph Buchanan, who at the time was considered an extreme-right Republican. He would eventually run for US president three times. His 1992 presidential campaign platform centered on “Make America first again.” Included in Buchanan’s defense of what had by then become a relatively controversial ideology promoted by the original America First Committee were the signatures of widely respected Americans on early recruitment posters for the original AFC including Quaker Oats’ Bob Suart, future Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, and an asst. varsity coach at Yale and future Republican congressman, US president and Warren Commission member, Gerald Ford. 

While he is not a household name, the most significant signature on that poster was that of the chairman of the Yale Daily News, Kingman Brewster who had strategized with Charles Lindbergh to create America First. Brewster would later be appointed president of Yale University. In a touch of tragic irony in the investigation into the assassination of John Kennedy, whose father Joe was a committed isolationist and had influenced John to sign on with the AFC, Brewster would later appoint James Angleton’s protégé, Tracy Barnes as special assistant for community relations at Yale when Barnes left the CIA. 

In another run for US president, Buchanan began identifying as a paleo-conservative and traditionalist. In his October 2004 essay for his monthly newsletter, The American Cause,  titled “The Resurrection of America First,” Buchanan reinvigorated the movement, stating that “the achievements of the organization [AFC] are monumental.” 

To his credit, in a piece for the National Review founded by William F. Buckley—whose own attempts to disenfranchise the dangerous fringe of his party, the John Birch Society, had slowed their momentum—fellow conservative writer Windsor Mann summarized, “Buchanan's brand of populist-nationalism is no longer marginal on the right. It is ascendant. A year after National Review released its ‘Against Trump’ issue, it ran a cover story making the case for nationalism. [Fox News pundit] Tucker Carlson discarded his libertarianism in favor of right-wing nanny-statism. Bennett, who accused Buchanan of ‘flirting with fascism,’ supports Trump, who quoted Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, approvingly [stating ‘it's a very good quote’].” According to Mann, Trump made this state of affairs possible, and Buchanan made Trump possible. He writes, “Just as Barry Goldwater's defeat in 1964 precipitated Ronald Reagan's victory in 1980, Buchanan's presidential campaigns in 1992, 1996, and 2000, laid the groundwork for Trump's presidency. His three candidacies exposed fissures on the right and showed Trump that there was an untapped market for nativism, protectionism, and isolationism.”  . . .  Trump would go on to declare, “’America First’ will be the major and overriding theme of my administration.”

You are good writer LS. Congratulations.

I actually find the non-interventionist populist wing of the GOP more tolerable than establishment, interventionist-Bushies. 

Just IMHO....

[Mark Knight]

Since there have been more Trump discussions begun on the JFK Assassination Discussion board, for the moment I am moving them all to this particular thread so we can lock our "signpost" thread directing you to the Trump discussions.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Mark Knight said:

Ben:

Other than the JFK Records Act, Biden has ZERO connection to the JFK assassination.

If you wish to discuss current politics. you are MORE than welcome to start a Biden discussion thread...which will then be moved, like the "56 years" thread, to the Political Discussions part of The Education Forum, where it belongs.

It's still PART of The Education Forum, it's just not part of the JFK Assassination Discussion. IT'S WHERE IT BELONGS.

Political Debates - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com)

Bookmark that link. Because I'm pretty sure that's where this thread, which is ONLY supposed to show links to where the Trump discussion threads are to be found, will end up.

We welcome people of every political persuasion to discuss the JFK assassination here. But we have areas to discuss other political issues in OTHER parts of The Education Forum. I don't give a damn if you're pro-or anti- Biden, pro- or anti- Trump, or a thousand other political persuasions. But the JFK Assassination Discussion forum is the place to discuss the JFK assassination ONLY.

WE PROVIDE OTHER DISCUSSION FORUMS FOR THOSE OTHER TOPICS. USE THEM.  

Here's the MAIN link to The Education Forum: Forums - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com)

(I'd wager you've NEVER been there before...it's a big house, check out the other rooms.)

Clue me in.

Why would a EF-JFK forum have pinned in its headliner position---literally the first and thus arguably most important thread in the EF-JFK forum---"Trump Thread Links," but would not have equal billing for "Biden Thread Links"? 

What message does this send to prospective members, reading the EF-JFK, possibly for the first time? 

And what message would received, if anyone should try to read what is in the Trump thread, replete with pictures of prison toilets (there is worse, but let's stop there). 

Is this inviting for the 46% of the voters who pulled the lever for Trump? 

What does either Trump or Biden have to do with the JFKA (although Biden has unilaterally implemented rules to deep-six the JFK Records in perpetuity)?

[Mark Knight]

Ben,

This topic has been moved to the Political Discussions area of the Education Forum, where it belongs.

I have begun a Biden Discussion thread...in the Political Discussions area of the EF, where it also belongs.

BOTH are now linked and pinned at the top of the JFK Assassination Discussion forum, in order to direct members to the appropriate areas.

And you were unable to send me a message because my inbox is full, NOT because I am refusing messages. I have no control over who or how often the inbox gets filled. I am not notified when it's full unless someone mentions attempting to send me a message that wouldn't go through...as you did.

Personally, I don't give a damn who anyone voted for. But I posted the Biden Discussion Link in order to demonstrate my [and the other administrators'] commitment to keeping the JFK assassination as nonpartisan as possible. If we continue the partisan bickering on the JFK assassination forum, how will that serve the purpose of exposing the truth? In all honesty, it won't. 

So that content has been moved.

 

[Douglas Caddy]

19 hours ago, Kathy Beckett said:

I don't think that will ever happen.  And he'll get bail.  It's just the way it is.

 

The world will soon find out. The judge will consider denying bail if he believes that Trump if granted bail will encourage his million-plus cult followers to resort to violence on a massive scale. Would Trump be more provocatively dangerous sitting isolated in a cell on Riker's Island or on the outside roaming around the country inciting an insurrection? If indicted this week his trial is still many months away. In the interim he could be indicted in Geogia and/or by the Justice Department. He could have three criminal actions going on at the same time.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Douglas Caddy