Sandy Larsen Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 On 1/5/2024 at 9:06 AM, W. Niederhut said: I'd be interested to hear more about your experiences in Iran during the revolution. William, I served an LDS mission in Iran beginning in July 1977. I was first in Tehran for a couple months and then moved to Esfahan (Isfahan). Not long after moving there, we noticed that the number of mullah meetings increased dramatically. (Mullah meetings are just we called them.) I and my companion were teaching English (ESL) in free classes. One of our students was quite advanced, and so I taught him in a separate class. In that class we spoke only English. I asked him why they were having so many mullah meetings. Oddly, he closed the door and the window blinds, and began telling me that the mullahs were planning to overthrow the government. Say what?!! Mission rules called for me to shut down the conversation right there. But curiosity kept me from doing so. My student told me that a "big mullah" named "Komeini" was exiled in Iraq and was planning the revolution there. He said that the local mullahs had code words for everything (I recall they used "Pharaoh" for the Shah) and would speak in parables. He said that first they would oust the Shah, and after that they would conquer Iraq and then work their way west. I don't recall if their plan included the conquering of Saudi Arabia or Egypt. I don't think he mentioned Israel. I began writing this down, but he stopped me, saying, "Are you crazy? They will kill you if they see that." Obviously referring to Savak. Nevertheless, I wrote some of it down when we got back home. I then emptied out a magic marker, rolled up the document and placed it inside, and glued the marker shut. A few weeks later, we began seeing cinemas and banks being burned down. The former had something to do with forbidden "graven images" and the latter with forbidden usury. Someone even tried to burn down our little church/house. Mud houses don't burn down, so I don't know what they were thinking. I guess they thought the furniture might catch fire. It didn't. Later, large buildings were burned down. The furnishings burned up and were so hot that the steel columns of the building collapsed. (Somewhere in that time period I lived in Ahvaz for a couple months. It was like 135 degrees in the daytime and 95 at night, and ironically very humid. It felt like living in a sauna. Lots of large toads jumping around. But everybody there had air conditioning, except for the nomadic Bedouins ) Next thing you know the country was put under martial law, and everybody had to be in by 9:00 PM. Around that time, we all moved back to Tehran, as the smaller cities were considered unsafe for Americans. Around that time the people resisted martial law by staying out late at night and protesting. The government fought back by cutting electrical power to the city. Now that was eery! We'd go out on the roof in the middle of the night and listen to hundreds of thousands of people chanting in pitch darkness. We would hear tanks rolling around and bombs going off. Then the following morning everything would be back to normal, like nothing had happened! This went on for a few weeks. We heard that the government forces had killed thousands of protestors, but would clean up the carnage with fire hoses before the sun rose. I now realize that those stories were likely propaganda. Anyway, the situation was quickly getting out of hand and the mission president decided to close up shop. We were all sent to other countries in December 1978. The Shah left the following month, in 1979. Of course, we all know about the Iran Hostage Crisis later that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Wow. Incredible story, Sandy. It's a good thing you guys got out of Iran when you did. I have never studied the history of Iran in any depth, but it seems like the U.S. has committed a lot of crimes there-- especially the assassination of Mossadeq, and the establishment of the Shah's police state and SAVAK. Then we sold weapons to Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq War-- including, according to Iran, chemical and biological weapons! This gets back to the larger question of who the "terrorists" are. Is the U.S. the world's leading "terrorist" nation--based on the millions of people we have killed since WWII? Edited January 8 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Looking backwards the Iranian Hostage Crisis was an awakening for me. I remember our civics teacher in high school telling us to pay attention to current events in 1974 regarding Watergate. I didn't really. Of course, it was huge news, historical when Nixon resigned. But I didn't grasp the significance other than the draft ended, then the Vietnam War. By 1978-79 I didn't believe Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK all alone though I had no idea who else might be involved, Cubans, Communists (Russia). Then came the Iranian revolution, Khomeini took over, they took our embassy personnel hostage. Carter's rescue mission failed in a sand storm. He got blamed during the election campaign. Then the very day Regan was inaugurated, immediately after, the hostages were released. A light went off in my head. A deal had been made, there were crooked politicians who would cheat and lie to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Wow, that is quite a story Sandy! I assume that was real spooky for awhile. So you were half a days distance from Tehran, out in the country? Then you moved down to Sea level closer to the gulf.? And you were there as part of a volunteer service for your church?.So did the administrators tell you where to go? How long were you in Iran? Most Iranians I know, including a woman who cuts my hair, fled the Shiites. They don't like the Shah but much preferred the life under the Shah, and wish there was some other answer. I remember you saying you were out in the Bay Area. The Shah's son lives in Atherton.. I do remember for a while hearing of Khomeini as an exile in France before returning after the Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Unfortunately the most hard hitting news anchor on MSNBC, Meidi Hasan demoted and is now leaving. The reason is obviously that he's too pro ceasefire, and not enough pro Israel for MSNBC. It's too bad, for MSNBC, because even before Israel's War on Hamas, he was by far, the best interviewer, who would let the least sh-t slide. I was sent this by Chris Hayes twitter feed. Edited January 8 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Mehdi was great. A big voice for democracy. But he was a victim of a carefully organized plot to sow discord among American Democrats; to use the Israel-Palestine problem as a wedge issue between the center-left and the left. Russia funded the Hamas attack on Israel precisely because of this. It is impossible to overstate how desperate Putin is to stop Biden's re-election. "Since 2006, regular meetings have been held between the Hamas politburo and senior Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs officials. Khaled Mashal, Hamas's then political leader was hosted on an official visit to Moscow in March 2006.[2] The following year, in 2007, Putin hosted Mashal in Moscow. Mashal praised Putin for his "courage and manliness."[1] In 2020, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev met with Mashal." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–Hamas_relations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: But he was a victim of a carefully organized plot to sow discord among American Democrats; to use the Israel-Palestine problem as a wedge issue between the center-left and the left. Organized plot? You don't think that just naturally happened? I could have predicted this in my sleep. 5 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: Russia funded the Hamas attack on Israel precisely because of this. It wouldn't surprise me, I'm sure they get funding. That 2007 meeting does sound pretty manly! 6 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: It is impossible to overstate how desperate Putin is to stop Biden's re-election. Then that means, he's liable to do anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 4 hours ago, W. Niederhut said: This gets back to the larger question of who the "terrorists" are. It seems to me that a terrorist is a person or group that kills or maims for the purpose of terrorizing the survivors, as an INDIRECT means of getting what they want. I don't know what the US has done in that way. It seems to me that the U.S. has usually killed people to DIRECTly get what it wants, and skips the terrorizing step. But I'm no expert. And it's just semantics in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Wow, that is quite a story Sandy! I assume that was real spooky for awhile. The elders (that's how male LDS missionaries are addressed) weren't scared in the least. You know how young guys feel invincible. Though one time my companion and I were ten minutes late getting inside for the curfew. A local policeman crouched, pulled his gun on us, and yelled IST! ("Stop!) That freaked us out a bit till he started laughing and waved us to go inside. LOL You know, come to think of it, there was one thing that bothered me. There were tanks positioned here and there throughout the big cities, and usually a few soldiers standing around holding automatic rifles. What bothered me is that most of them would follow us with their rifles as we walked by... even though we always stayed as far away as possible as we walked by. Yeah, that was a little creepy. 2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: So you were half a days distance from Tehran, out in the country? Then you moved down to Sea level closer to the gulf.? Ah, you've done your homework. Yes, from Tehran, to Esfahan, to Ahvaz, and back. I even got to see the Persian Gulf. I think we had to travel a couple hours to see that. 2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: And you were there as part of a volunteer service for your church?.So did the administrators tell you where to go? How long were you in Iran? Young LDS men are encourage to serve 2-year missions, and 1 1/2 years for women who don't get married young. I must say, though, that I am no longer active. It makes no sense to me for a Christian to be converted from one denomination to another. For that matter, denominations and organized religion don't make sense to me either. (I was agnostic most my adult life, but now am Christian, FWIW.) 2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Most Iranians I know, including a woman who cuts my hair, fled the Shiites. They don't like the Shah but much preferred the life under the Shah, and wish there was some other answer. I've known both the secular and the religious types of Iranians. I think that most Iranians, including the the religious ones, were okay with the Shah before the mullah began manipulating them. The people there were okay as long as they didn't protest the government. They prospered under the Shah. 2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: I remember you saying you were out in the Bay Area. The Shah's son lives in Atherton. I saw the Shah's son being interviewed on CNN around 1990. I was very impressed. Very articulate and intelligent. He thought he would be the Shah one day. Didn't work out for him, needless to say. (So why did I say it? LOL) 2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: I do remember for a while hearing of Khomeini as an exile in France before returning after the Revolution. I didn't know that. I just checked into it, and as it turns out, the Shah pressured the Iraqi government into moving Khomeini to France in 1978, during my time in the revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Marjorie Taylor Greene slams "corporate communists". She learned all about that capitalism and communism stuff while sitting at er VFW daycare center signing books. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Donald Trump named in latest Epstein documents: Sarah Ransome said he had sex with 'many girls' in email where she also claimed pedophile had tapes of the ex-president, Richard Branson, Prince Andrew, Bill Clinton | Daily Mail Online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 IDK why, but yeah! US Supreme Court declines to hear Exxon, Koch Industries appeal in climate case (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Here's an article I wish everyone in America could read. It explains that Israel has serious problem with the far-right in their country; as bad, or likely worse, than we do. And quite frankly, it's f***ing everything up. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/08/netanyahu-israeli-leader-losing-control-00134146 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said: Donald Trump named in latest Epstein documents: Sarah Ransome said he had sex with 'many girls' in email where she also claimed pedophile had tapes of the ex-president, Richard Branson, Prince Andrew, Bill Clinton | Daily Mail Online Does anyone think that Donald Trump will lose any votes because of these latest Epstein documents? My guess is that Trump could rape underage girls on 5th Avenue without losing a single MAGA vote. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Hope this link works. I have known Roger for 50+ years but never once thought he would go this far but did think he would anything short of murder to achieve his goals. Exclusive: Roger Stone Spoke With Cop Pal About Assassinating Eric Swalwell and Jerry Nadler (mediaite.com) Edited January 9 by Douglas Caddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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