What Kind of Weapon Leaves a Shallow Wound in Soft Tissue?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I think the Autopsists diagnosis is highly likely.  But it isn’t *my* idea.

The authorities could ignore anything that didn’t fit their narrative.

And how many autopsies have you performed?

Sure.  He died of a heart attack.

Suspicion of whom?

 

This is done. You can’t even answer straight questions. 68 years old and behaving like a child. Just read back through the last few replies of yours. 🙈

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

It has been years since I looked at the autopsy. My sentiment then was Finch was called in late, did what he could do under the chaotic ad controlled circumstances, and then more or less never talked about the autopsy much afterwards, and then in an anodyne manner. 

He testified st the Clay Shaw trial.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

 

Some people have said something about a JFK back muscle moving back into place, thus blocking the wound probe.

“Some people” say a lot of things.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Is every bullet path subject to probing by someone with limited experience? I don't know. 

Finck had limited experience?  Why, because “many” means only three?

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You realize there are people who state authoritatively JFK was shot from the front without the slight doubt, and then others who declare JFK was shot from the rear, with 99.99% certainty (and that is just in the CT'er community).

There is no doubt JFK was shot from the front.

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

This is done. You can’t even answer straight questions. 68 years old and behaving like a child. Just read back through the last few replies of yours. 🙈

It’s impossible for you to engage in a discussion without getting nasty.

Seek help.

[Cliff Varnell]

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA Francis O'Neill's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

<quote on>

Some discussion did occur concerning the disintegration of the bullet. A general feeling existed that a soft-nosed bullet struck JFK. There was discussion concerning the back wound that the bullet could have been a "plastic" type or an "Ice" [sic] bullet, one which dissolves after contact.<quote off>

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA James Sibert's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

<quote on>

The doctors also discussed a possible deflection of the bullet in the body caused by striking bone. Consideration was also given to a type of bullet which fragments completely.... Following discussion among the doctors relating to the back injury, I left the autopsy room to call the FBI Laboratory and spoke with Agent Chuch [sic] Killion. I asked if he could furnish any information regarding a type of bullet that would almost completely fragmentize (sic).</q>

[Cliff Varnell]

Larry Hancock’s NEXUS, pg 36

<quote on, emphasis in the original>

Confirmation of the MKNAOMI project was revealed in 1977, when Carter administration Defense Secretary Brown requested an internal review of CIA projects which had involved the Department of Defense. The Department of Defense's legal counsel conducted the investigation and among other things reported back that MKNAOMI had begun in the early 1950's and was "intended to stockpile severely incapacitating and lethal materials and to develop gadgetry for dissemination of these materials."

A June 29, 1975 CIA memorandum has also been located which documents the SOD/CIA relationship and confirms that no written records were kept; management was by verbal instruction and "human continuity." The memo refers to "swarms of project requests" and cites examples of suicide pills, chemicals to anesthetize occupants to facilitate building entries, "L-pills" and aphrodisiacs for operational use. The memo notes "some requests for support approved by the CIA had apparently involved assassination."

<quote off>

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

The fruits of MKNAOMI?

May 8, 1963.

Hue, South Vietnam.

Buddhist protesters crowded around a radio station when two explosions killed eight people.

The Catholic Diem regime blamed the Viet Cong; the Buddhists.blamed Diem.

From JFK and the Unspeakable, James Douglass pgs 130-1:

<quote on, emphasis added>

Dr. Le Khac Quyen, the hospital director at Hue, said after examining the victim's bodies that he had never seen such
injuries. The bodies had been decapitated.  He found no metal in the corpses, only holes. There were no wounds below the chest. In his official finding, Dr. Quyen ruled that "the death of the people was caused by an explosion which took place in mid-air," blowing off their heads and mutilating their bodies...

...In May 1963, Diem's younger brother, Ngo Dinh Can, who ruled Hue, thought from the very beginning that the Viet Cong had nothing to do with the explosions at the radio station. According to an investigation carried out by the Catholic newspaper, Hoa Binh, Ngo Dinh Can and his advisers were "convinced the explosions had to be the work of an American agent who wanted to make trouble for Diem." In 1970 Hoa Binh located such a man, a Captain Scott, who in later years became a U.S. military adviser in the Mekong Delta. Scott had come to Hue from Da Nang on May 7, 1963. He admitted he was the American agent responsible for the bombing at the radio station the next day. He said he used "an explosive that was still
secret and known only to certain people at the Central Intelligence Agency, a charge no larger than a matchbox with a timing device."

<quote off>

Edited May 10, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

Uhttp://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf

<quote on, emphasis added>

Senseney: And the only thing that I can say is, I just have to suppose that, having been told to maintain the sort of show and tell display of hardware that we had on sort of stockpile for them, these were not items that could be used. They were display tems like you would see in a museum, and they used those to show to the agents as well as to the FBI, to acquaint them with possible ways that other people could attack our own people. (pg 163)

Baker: ...There are about 60 agencies of Government that do either intelligence or law enforcement work.

Senseney: I am sure most all of those knew of what we were doing; yes...

...The FBI never used anything. They were only shown so they could be aware of what might be brought into the country.

(pg 166)

<quote off>

The FBI was primed to blame all-hole/no-metal wounds on foreign perps.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Michael Crane]

I've said all along that I will offer an opinion.

My opinion is that JFK was not paralyzed from anything.If anything he was in shock.

I don't think the angle from Umbrella Man lines up to the throat.

While my opinion probably isn't a good one...I believe the throat shot came from the South Knoll near the overpass.

As for the back shot...I think it was removed because it did not come from a Mannlicher Carcano rifle.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

I've said all along that I will offer an opinion.

My opinion is that JFK was not paralyzed from anything.If anything he was in shock.

Jackie K’s WC (emphasis added)

Mrs. KENNEDY. No; I was looking this way, to the left, and I heard these terrible noises. You know. And my husband never made any sound. So I turned to the right. And all I remember is seeing my husband, he had this sort of quizzical look on his face, and his hand was up, it must have been his left hand. And just as I turned and looked at him, I could see a piece of his skull and I remember it was flesh colored. I remember thinking he just looked as if he had a slight headache. And I just remember seeing that. No blood or anything. </q>

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

I don't think the angle from Umbrella Man lines up to the throat.

Not at all, agreed.

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

While my opinion probably isn't a good one...I believe the throat shot came from the South Knoll near the overpass.

It’s a reasonable possibility.

I’m looking at shot from Black Dog Man.  An HSCA analysis of Dealey photos mentioned a “straight-line feature” in the area of his hands.  Rosemary Willis said BDM was. “conspicuous...disappeared in an instant.”

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

As for the back shot...I think it was removed because it did not come from a Mannlicher Carcano rifle.

 

We’re still left with the question — what kind of firearm leaves a shallow wound in soft tissue?

Edited May 10, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Michael Crane]

6 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Not at all, agreed.

Cliff,

What damage was described to JFK's throat?

A shot from Umbrella Man would seem like all of the damage would be to the left side of JFK's throat.

Do you happen to know if there was any damage to the left side of JFK's throat?

When I say damage...I'm talking about after the bullet entered.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

Cliff,

What damage was described to JFK's throat?

A shot from Umbrella Man would seem like all of the damage would be to the left side of JFK's throat.

Do you happen to know if there was any damage to the left side of JFK's throat?

When I say damage...I'm talking about after the bullet entered.

According to the x-ray there burst blood vessels, a hairline fracture of the right T1 transverse process, and an air pocket overlaying C7 and T1.  

[Michael Crane]

I must admit that I am bankrupt when it comes to what angle the bullet entered JFK's throat & which direction it traveled.

*Pictures of the probes that are missing would of sincerely helped us find out which direction the bullets came from.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

I must admit that I am bankrupt when it comes to what angle the bullet entered JFK's throat & which direction it traveled.

Here’s the HSCA analysis of the x-ray:

Evaluation of the pre-autopsy film shows that there is some subcutaneous or interstitial air overlying the right C7 and T1 transverse processes. There is disruption of the integrity of the transverse process of T1, which, in comparison with its mate on the opposite side and also with the previously taken film, mentioned above, indicates that there has been a fracture in that area. There is some soft tissue density overlying the apex of the right lung which may be hematoma in that region or other soft tissue swelling.

Evaluation of the post-autopsy film shows that there is subcutaneous or interstitial air overlying C7 and T1. The same disruption of T1 right transverse process is still present.

On the film of the right side, taken post-autopsy, there are two small metallic densities in the region of the C7 right transverse process. These densities are felt to be artifact, partly because of their marked density, because there is a similar artifact overlying the body of C7, and because these metallic-like densities were not present on the previous, pre-autopsy film. Therefore, I assume that these are screen artifacts from debris present in the cassette at the time that this film was exposed. 

[Michael Crane]

4 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Here’s the HSCA analysis of the x-ray:

Evaluation of the pre-autopsy film shows that there is some subcutaneous or interstitial air overlying the right C7 and T1 transverse processes. There is disruption of the integrity of the transverse process of T1, which, in comparison with its mate on the opposite side and also with the previously taken film, mentioned above, indicates that there has been a fracture in that area. There is some soft tissue density overlying the apex of the right lung which may be hematoma in that region or other soft tissue swelling.

Evaluation of the post-autopsy film shows that there is subcutaneous or interstitial air overlying C7 and T1. The same disruption of T1 right transverse process is still present.

On the film of the right side, taken post-autopsy, there are two small metallic densities in the region of the C7 right transverse process. These densities are felt to be artifact, partly because of their marked density, because there is a similar artifact overlying the body of C7, and because these metallic-like densities were not present on the previous, pre-autopsy film. Therefore, I assume that these are screen artifacts from debris present in the cassette at the time that this film was exposed. 

Well,that is a terrific description (thank you for that) Now I just need to learn more anatomy.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Michael Crane]

I see that there are descriptions on the right side.Not only would I suspect that there would be a need for damage on the left side...I would expect that at the Umbrella Man's angle,the bullet would lodge and come to a halt at least an inch or two on the right side of the entrance? (JFK's left side)

Edited May 10, 2023 by Michael Crane