Benjamin Cole Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 15 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: James Curtis Jenkins was a lab tech at the autopsy and made this statement to David Lifton: (quote on) I remember looking inside the chest cavity and I could see the probe...through the pleura [the lining of the chest cavity]...You could actually see where it was making an indentation...where it was pushing the skin up...There was no entry into the chest cavity...it would have been no way that that could have exited in the front because it was then low in the chest cavity...somewhere around the junction of the descending aorta [the main artery carrying blood from the heart] or the bronchus in the lungs. (quote off) Was that Hume doing the probe? Or Finck? How much experience did either of them having in probing bullet wounds? Are there times when a bullet probe follows a "false lead"? That is, a pathologist is pushing the probe, but it follows false path for a few inches and then dead-ends? "The Bethesda autopsy physicians attempted to probe the bullet hole in the base of Kennedy's neck above the scapula, but failed as it had passed through neck strap muscle. They did not perform a full dissection or persist in tracking, as throughout the autopsy they were unaware of the exit wound at the front of the throat. Emergency room physicians had obscured it while performing the tracheotomy." Is this a viable explanation? There are plenty of very experienced pathologists in CA, particularly in Los Angeles. Why not query them by e-mail if the path of bullet through a human body is always easily probed? Side question: What was the point of the dissipating bullets if then both JFK and JBC are shot with common copper-jacketed bullets? Why use exotic hardware that might be traced back to an intel agency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: Was that Hume doing the probe? Or Finck? Humes probed the wound with his little finger. Then Finck showed up and used a proper probe. 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: How much experience did either of them having in probing bullet wounds? Are there times when a bullet probe follows a "false lead"? That is, a pathologist is pushing the probe, but it follows false path for a few inches and then dead-ends? Jenkins gave a detailed description of the probing. 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: "The Bethesda autopsy physicians attempted to probe the bullet hole in the base of Kennedy's neck above the scapula, but failed as it had passed through neck strap muscle. They did not perform a full dissection or persist in tracking, as throughout the autopsy they were unaware of the exit wound at the front of the throat. Emergency room physicians had obscured it while performing the tracheotomy." Is this a viable explanation? The bullet holes in the clothes prove there was no wound at the base of the neck, plus the witnesses etc. 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: There are plenty of very experienced pathologists in CA, particularly in Los Angeles. Why not query them by e-mail if the path of bullet through a human body is always easily probed? Irrelevant. Jenkins described it — that you cannot process this is your problem. 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: Side question: What was the point of the dissipating bullets if then both JFK and JBC are shot with common copper-jacketed bullets? Why use exotic hardware that might be traced back to an intel agency? Because they wanted it traced back to the Soviets. MKNAOMI briefed the FBI on exactly that. Edited May 14, 2023 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Humes probed the wound with his little finger. Then Finck showed up and used a proper probe. Jenkins gave a detailed description of the probing. The bullet holes in the clothes prove there was no wound at the base of the neck, plus the witnesses etc. Irrelevant. Jenkins described it — that you cannot process this is your problem. Because they wanted it traced back to the Soviets. MKNAOMI briefed the FBI on exactly that. You realize Jenkins has given evolving descriptions of what happened in the autopsy over the years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said: You realize Jenkins has given evolving descriptions of what happened in the autopsy over the years? In regard to Finck’s probing of the wound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 A Secret Order, Hank Albarelli, pg: 14 <quote on> [D]uring WWII George Hunter White and a number of other [Federal Bureau of Narcotics] agents assigned to the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), precursor to the CIA, worked very closely in New York City with Port Security and the Office of Naval Intelligence on what is now commonly called Operation Underworld. This was the top-secret project that involved freeing infamous gangster Charles "Lucky" Luciano from prison in return for his, and the Mafia's, assistance with security at America's ports and the Allied invasion of Italy. All the FBN agents assigned to work on Operation Underworld went on to become covert operatives of the CIA, and would become involved with Projects MK/ULTRA and MK/NAOMI. <quote off> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 Ben, you’re not hustling the SBT, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: In regard to Finck’s probing of the wound? Not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said: Not sure. Always draw a conclusion first, then work backward finding anything to prove it. Meanwhile... From the Sibert & O’Neill FBI report on the autopsy.: <quote on > During the later stages of this autopsy, Dr. Humes located an opening which appeared to be a bullet hole which was below the shoulders and two inches to the right of the middle line of the spinal column. This opening was probed by Dr. Humes with his finger, at which time it was determined that the trajectory of the missile entering at this point had entered at downward position of 45 to 60 degrees. Further probing determined that the distance traveled by this missile was a short distance inasmuch as the end of the opening could be felt with a finger. </q> Edited May 14, 2023 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Ben, you’re not hustling the SBT, are you? No. I strongly suspect, but cannot prove--- 1. JFK struck by the first shot, in the back, exited the throat. Just before Stemmons Freeway sign (Z-film view). 2. Connally shot ~Z295. He is indisputably shot in the back. He is pushed forward, as he testified twice. 3. JFK shot at Z313. Obviously, about one second between JBC and JFK shots, ergo no lone gunsel armed with single-shot bolt-action rifle could have shot all the shots. There may have been other shots. I strongly suspect a diversionary smoke-and-bang show at the GK. I speculate someone with a snub-nose .38, the default concealed carry of the time. May not have even aimed the gun at anyone. We just have to agree to disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: No. I strongly suspect, but cannot prove--- 1. JFK struck by the first shot, in the back, exited the throat. Just before Stemmons Freeway sign (Z-film view). Lone Nut lite. I knew it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Blackmon Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 16 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Lone Nut lite. I knew it... Thats not what he believes. Doesn't even make sense "LN lite". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said: Thats not what he believes. Doesn't even make sense "LN lite". Same talking point, isn’t it? Bullet hits JFK in the back and exits his throat. No matter what the evidence shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) A dozen witnesses to JFK’s throat entrance wound. Compiled by Denny Zartman, with Vincent Palamara's 2015 book "JFK: From Parkland To Bethesda" as the source. Dr. William Clark: "Dr. Kemp Clark...said that there were two wounds, a traumatic wound in the back of the head and a small entrance wound below the Adam's apple..." Pg. 1 Dr. Robert McClelland.: "this [the neck wound] did appear to be an entrance wound." ... "Dr. Robert Mc Clelland ... told me afterward that they still believed it [the neck wound] to be an entry wound." Pgs. 7-8 Dr. Marion Jenkins: saw an entry wound on JFK's neck; would let their 1963 observations stand. Pg. 13 Dr. Charles Carrico: "small penetrating wound of ent. neck" Pg. 14 Dr. Ronald Jones: "The hole [in the throat] was very small and relatively clean cut, as you would see in a bullet that is entering rather than exiting from a patient." ... "compatible with an entrance wound ... I would stand by my original impression." Pgs. 15-16 Dr. Gene Akin: "this [the neck wound] must have been an entrance wound..." Pg. 17 Dr. Paul Peters: "...we saw the wound of entry in the throat..." Pg. 19 Dr. Charles Crenshaw: "There were two wounds to the President that we observed at parkland. The first was a small and neat entrance wound to the throat..." Pg. 22 Dr. Charles Baxter: The wound in the neck was "no more than a pinpoint. It was made by a small caliber weapon. And it was an entry wound." Pg. 24 Dr. Joe Goldstritch: "...I realized how impossible it would have been for the neck wound I saw to have been an exit wound..." Pg. 44 Nurse Diana Bowron: "...the entry wound in his throat...looked like an entry wound." Pg. 33 Nurse Margaret Hinchliffe: "...a little hole in the middle of his neck ... About as big as the end of my little finger...An entrance bullet hole---it looked to me like...I have never seen an exit bullet hole---I don't remember seeing one that looked like that."; "...it was just a small wound and wasn't jagged like most of the exit bullet wounds that I have seen." ... "She also insisted the President had an "entry" wound in his throat." ... "Throat wound---Definitely an entrance wound. Resented Arlen Specter trying to get her to say it might be an exit wound..." Pgs 35-36 Edited May 14, 2023 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Blackmon Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Bullet hits JFK in the back and exits his throat. I definitely don't believe it happened that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crane Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) I have heard the strap muscles earlier in this thread & fail to see them on this chart. If the strap muscles are anywhere close to the center of the throat,that means that the shot was too straight ahead to come from the Umbrella Man. Edited May 14, 2023 by Michael Crane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now