Leopoldo and Angel

[David Andrews]

David, I know you addressed this question to Larry,

Nah - just threw it out there. Hall could have played the Odio card for any reason, including sheer desperation. The historical record of non-prosecution (except for Garrison) created an atmosphere in which all agencies seem complicit at some level.

Edited April 6, 2014 by David Andrews

[Paul Trejo]

Well, Larry Hancock opined that Loran Hall told the FBI he was "Leopoldo" to enhance his own reputation -- and that he was merely a braggart, and would switch stories at will. Yet that would not explain why the FBI contacted Hall out of the blue, when Silvia Odio herself did not know who "Leopoldo" was.

Also, why would Loran Hall respond to interrogation by the FBI and identify not only himself but also Larry Howard and William Seymour as the men at Silvia Odio's door? Was he trying to "enhance their reputation?" It sounds more like he was trying to hide a dangerous fact -- that he had been seen with Lee Harvey Oswald -- which was a serious blunder on his part -- a blunder that could have cost him his life. (He was counting on their confirmation -- but they both turned on him.)

As for Hall's wild claims upon his 1987 methedrine drug trafficking arrest -- there was evidently some truth in the lies -- the drug trade was indeed a source of arms for Latin American "Freedom Fighters" by Oliver North in the Iran-Contra scandal of 1986. Loran Hall evidently knew a few government secrets -- though at best as a street-level asset or liability.

So -- the 'bragging' explanation is not a strong one, IMHO -- because the "Leopoldo" incident was a response to a real risk -- and it endangered his friends. It is more likely that Loran Hall was trying to wiggle out of something.

As for Hall's fickle friends -- they went into military combat alongside him. They fought side by side. There was some honor in the early days -- yet when the Cuban cause was increasingly recognized as lost, lost, lost, Loran Hall and the Cuban Freedom Fighters began to wear down, turn to drugs and bar room violence, and eventually turned on each other.

Hemming and Hall were friends at first, inside Interpen, but Hall wanted to be the leader of his own Cuba Raid Team. So there was also competition. Hemming sought funds from Ex-General Walker, who had won $3 million dollars in libel lawsuits (pending appeals) from US newspapers that told the truth about Walker at the Ole Miss riots. Walker had been promising various Cuban Raid Teams money when his ship came in. As I read it, Loran Hall tried to by-pass Gerry Hemming to pursue Walker for cash on his own. This caused friction between Hemming and Hall that never healed.

Also, David, the Garrison case was not until 1968, and the "Leopoldo" confession of Loran Hall was in 1964 during the Silvia Odio hearings of the Warren Commision. So there was no connection there.

Also, Tommy, why would Hall tell the FBI "what he thought they wanted to hear" during the peak of the Warren Commission when they were seeking accomplices of Lee Harvey Oswald? Would he step up to say that he knows it was not Lee Harvey Oswald that Silvia Odio saw, although it really was Larry Howard and himself that she saw? It hardly makes sense.

When William Seymour told the FBI that Loran Hall was a xxxx -- and then Larry Howard told the FBI that Loran Hall was a xxxx -- only then did Loran Hall tell the FBI that he was "mistaken" and that he never saw Silvia Odio before in his life. (He was probably threatened with death by Seymour and Howard -- as they both told the FBI Hall was a xxxx, and they both resented being named in this investigation about Lee Harvey Oswald -- a very dangerous affair.)

Finally, Tommy, I think your question is extremely interesting -- about Hemming's 30.06 rifle found almost immediately after the JFK murder -- and they found the fingerprints of Richard Hathcock / Roy Payne upon it, and they interviewed them both on 11/23/63.

Larry Hancock's guess that Gerry Patrick Hemming himself went to the FBI about his rifle on the very day of the assassination merely to make trouble for Loran Hall, seems hard to believe. However, if it's true, then it suggests that Gerry Hemming was so deeply involved in the JFK assassination that he tried to make Loran Hall into the patsy. (Or, it suggests that Hemming was so deeply involved that he wanted to cast suspicion away from himself -- which would backfire since it would also make him a suspect for having so much information on the very same day.)

Actually, the story that Gerry Patrick Hemming told this Forum back in 2007 is far easier to believe -- that Loran Hall (who was almost certainly in Dallas on 11/22/1963) was so deeply involved in the JFK assassination, particularly in the managing of the patsy, that one of his backup plans was to put the blame on Gerry Patrick Hemming by having Hemming's rifle at the scene of the crime.

I'm trying to remember the source who said that not one, not two, but three rifles were found inside the TSBD that afternoon.

Tommy's reply -- that A.J. Weberman's account agrees with the account by Gerry Patrick Hemming is further confirmation. It places Loran Hall in Dallas and deep within the "patsy" side of the plot. It also places this "Leopoldo" (i.e. Loran Hall) in contact with Ex-General Walker during the autumn of 1963. The pieces just fit like a glove, IMHO.

Like Tommy, I'm also interested in the finer details about how the FBI came to obtain the rifle of Gerry Patrick Hemming by 11/23/1963.

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
<edit typos>

Edited April 6, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[David Boylan]

Hemming's rifle purportedly turned up at a Dr. Crockett's place in Miami. Crockett was a Miami dentist who occaisionally helped out the anit-Castro crowd.

Hall was most likely an FBI informant and was willing to help them out. After reading WCD1553, I came to the conclusion that the FBI couldn't have known such detail about Hall, Howard and Castro-Alba's trip from California to Dallas unless one of them was an informant. I doubt it was Howard and Castro-Alba's English was not that good.

[Paul Trejo]

Hemming's rifle purportedly turned up at a Dr. Crockett's place in Miami. Crockett was a Miami dentist who occaisionally helped out the anit-Castro crowd.

Hall was most likely an FBI informant and was willing to help them out. After reading WCD1553, I came to the conclusion that the FBI couldn't have known such detail about Hall, Howard and Castro-Alba's trip from California to Dallas unless one of them was an informant. I doubt it was Howard and Castro-Alba's English was not that good.

OK, this is interesting. If Loran Hall was an FBI informant -- which I consider possible on some level -- this is a plausible explanation for how the FBI came to pick up Loran Hall so quickly.

The FBI had questioned Sylvia Odio on 22 July 1964 about the two Latinos she saw with Lee Harvey Oswald at her doorstep one evening during the final week of September, 1963. Odio could not identify a photograph of any suspect the FBI showed her, and she did not know their names.

She did give a description; late 20's, 5'11'', athletic build, dark curly hair, but thinning at the temples. Yes, Loran Hall fit that -- but that description could have fit hundreds of Cuban Exiles.

I'd guessed that Loran Hall was an FBI suspect in the JFK murder somehow -- and I'm still not discounting that. But this new theory is plausible and should be affirmed or eliminated.

I mean -- even Lee Harvey Oswald was a low level source of data for the FBI (according to Dallas DA Henry Wade and Attorney General Waggoner Carr, which might explain why Oswald recieved small amounts of cash from Western Union every so often).

Descriptions of Loran Hall (e.g. from Harry Dean) say that he was usually hard up for money (like Oswald). So it's likely he would have sold information to the FBI if he had it -- after all the FBI were the good guys.

Hall moved in Cuban Exile circles, including paramilitary groups, and there was a time when the FBI was asked to shut down some of their camps and collect data about them. (Lee Harvey Oswald might also have been selling this same sort of data to FBI agents for petty cash).

So, in this plausible scenario -- the FBI was searching for "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" based on Sylvia Odio's testimony. They happened to ask Loran Hall, one of their known information sources -- and out of the blue Loran Hall confessed that it was himself and Larry Howard at her doorstep -- but not Lee Harvey Oswald.

That is possible -- it explains the quick turnaround. But it doesn't explain the confession itself, does it? I mean, why put himself and his friends at risk? It sounds as if Loran Hall was caught by surprise by this line of questioning. What do you think?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 7, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Hemming's rifle purportedly turned up at a Dr. Crockett's place in Miami. Crockett was a Miami dentist who occaisionally helped out the anit-Castro crowd.

Hall was most likely an FBI informant and was willing to help them out. After reading WCD1553, I came to the conclusion that the FBI couldn't have known such detail about Hall, Howard and Castro-Alba's trip from California to Dallas unless one of them was an informant. I doubt it was Howard and Castro-Alba's English was not that good.

OK, this is interesting. If Loran Hall was an FBI informant -- which I consider possible on some level -- this is a plausible explanation for how the FBI came to pick up Loran Hall so quickly.

The FBI had questioned Sylvia Odio on 22 July 1964 about the two Latinos she saw with Lee Harvey Oswald at her doorstep one evening during the final week of September, 1963. Odio could not identify a photograph of any suspect the FBI showed her, and she did not know their names.

She did give a description; late 20's, 5'11'', athletic build, dark curly hair, but thinning at the temples. Yes, Loran Hall fit that -- but that description could have fit hundreds of Cuban Exiles.

I'd guessed that Loran Hall was an FBI suspect in the JFK murder somehow -- and I'm still not discounting that. But this new theory is plausible and should be affirmed or eliminated.

I mean -- even Lee Harvey Oswald was a low level source of data for the FBI (according to Dallas DA Henry Wade and Attorney General Waggoner Carr, which might explain why Oswald recieved small amounts of cash from Western Union every so often).

Descriptions of Loran Hall (e.g. from Harry Dean) he was usually hard up for money (like Oswald). So it's likely he would have sold information to the FBI if he had it -- after all the FBI were the good guys.

Hall moved in Cuban Exile circles, including paramilitary groups, and there was a time when the FBI was asked to shut down some of their camps and collect data about them. (Lee Harvey Oswald might also have been selling this same sort of data to FBI agents for petty cash).

So, in this plausible scenario -- the FBI was searching for "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" based on Sylvia Odio's testimony. They happened to ask Loran Hall, one of their known information sources -- and out of the blue Loran Hall confessed that it was himself and Larry Howard at her doorstep -- but not Lee Harvey Oswald.

That is possible -- it explains the quick turnaround. But it doesn't explain the confession itself, does it? I mean, why put himself and his friends at risk? It sounds as if Loran Hall was caught by surprise by this line of questioning. What do you think?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

Where did Silvia Odio say that Leopoldo had an "athletic build?"

I thought she said that he was "tall" and "thin."

--Tommy

PS As you know, it's believed that the Odio Incident occurred on September the 25th, 1963. It's also believed that Loran Hall and Larry Howard and Celio Castro left Los Angeles with a trailer full of medicines and weapons (and Hemming's 30.06) on or about September 19th, bound for Dallas.

I just stumbled into a FBI report from 8 October, 1964 about a Mrs. Giser, manager of the Lawnview Motel in Dallas, who said her records indicated that Loran Hall, accompanied by another bearded "American" and a "Latin," were registered at that motel from September the 28th through October the 3rd, 1963, and that they were pulling a trailer behind an Oldsmobile with license plate 1W167710 (state unknown).

Now I'm wondering where Hall and his two companions were staying on the 25th?

At the Dallas YMCA?

In the car?

At Lester Logue's?

At General Walker's?

None of the above?

Edited April 7, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

Where did Silvia Odio say that Leopoldo had an "athletic build?"

I thought she said that he was "tall" and "thin."

--Tommy

PS As you know, it's believed that the Odio Incident occurred on September the 25th, 1963. It's also believed that Loran Hall and Larry Howard and Celio Castro left Los Angeles with a trailer full of medicines and weapons (and Hemming's 30.06) on or about September 19th, bound for Dallas.

I just stumbled into a FBI report from 8 October, 1964 about a Mrs. Giser, manager of the Lawnview Motel in Dallas, who said her records indicated that Loran Hall, accompanied by another bearded "American" and a "Latin," were registered at that motel from September the 28th through October the 3rd, 1963, and that they were pulling a trailer behind an Oldsmobile with license plate 1W167710 (state unknown).

Now I'm wondering where Hall and his two companions were staying on the 25th?

At the Dallas YMCA?

In the car?

At Lester Logue's?

At General Walker's?

None of the above?

Tommy, as I recall, Silvia Odio told the Warren Commission that Leopoldo was "tall and slim" but told Gaeton Fonzi that he was muscular and handsome. She thought Leopoldo started acting "fresh" and came on to her during his telephone conversation the subsequent afternoon.

As for the room and board of the traveling trio, if you find solid evidence, that would be pleasantly surprising.

Oswald is reported at the Mexico City Cuban Embassy on September 27th. If that was Oswald, it is possible that Oswald was at the doorstep of Silvia Odio on September 25th, presuming he was being driven to Mexico in a car.

It is also possible that Leopoldo and Angelo left Oswald in Mexico City after their chore was done; according to Harry Dean, their chore was to deliver Lee Harvey Oswald to Guy Gabaldon at DACA headquarters in Mexico City.

If so, then it is also possible that Leopoldo and Angel were back in Dallas on September 28.

The notion that they lived in their car is not out of the question -- they were always short of funds. One possible reason for visiting Silvia Odio was to try to get money from her. She said they looked scruffy, unshaven and unwashed. So, it's not impossible.

By the way, Gaeton Fonzi says that even if it wasn't Oswald at her doorstep -- even if it was a lookalike using the name of Leon Oswald, it STILL is evidence of a conspiracy to at least FRAME Oswald in connection with the JFK murder.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Paul,

Where did Silvia Odio say that Leopoldo had an "athletic build?"

I thought she said that he was "tall" and "thin."

--Tommy

PS As you know, it's believed that the Odio Incident occurred on September the 25th, 1963. It's also believed that Loran Hall and Larry Howard and Celio Castro left Los Angeles with a trailer full of medicines and weapons (and Hemming's 30.06) on or about September 19th, bound for Dallas.

I just stumbled into a FBI report from 8 October, 1964 about a Mrs. Giser, manager of the Lawnview Motel in Dallas, who said her records indicated that Loran Hall, accompanied by another bearded "American" and a "Latin," were registered at that motel from September the 28th through October the 3rd, 1963, and that they were pulling a trailer behind an Oldsmobile with license plate 1W167710 (state unknown).

Now I'm wondering where Hall and his two companions were staying on the 25th?

At the Dallas YMCA?

In the car?

At Lester Logue's?

At General Walker's?

None of the above?

[...]

As for the room and board of the traveling trio, if you find solid evidence, that would be pleasantly surprising.

[...]

Paul,

Here it is:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1020151

--Tommy

PS Regarding the Oldsmobile and the trailer, photographer Tom Dunkin wrote this in his1967 memorandum about the Interpen bust at No Name Key:

"Hall and Seymour, with 1950-ish blue Oldsmobile and a rectangular, wooden, home-build two-wheel trailer appeared at Glades Country [Florida] Democrat Office on Thursday 24 October 1963. Hall at that time unknown to me."

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_076-100/doc0090.html

FWIW, I did a little "research" on e-bay, and it looks like the license plate was from Florida circa 1960.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

...As for the room and board of the traveling trio, if you find solid evidence, that would be pleasantly surprising...

Paul,

Here it is:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1020151

--Tommy

PS Regarding the Oldsmobile and the trailer, photographer Tom Dunkin wrote this in his1967 memorandum about the Interpen bust at No Name Key:

"Hall and Seymour, with 1950-ish blue Oldsmobile and a rectangular, wooden, home-build two-wheel trailer appeared at Glades Country [Florida] Democrat Office on Thursday 24 October 1963. Hall at that time unknown to me."

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_076-100/doc0090.html

FWIW, I did a little "research" on e-bay, and it looks like the license plate was from Florida circa 1960.

Tommy, nice work.

We have documented evidence that Loran Hall was in Dallas again on 28 September 1963, with two others. Who were they? We don't know, but the Motel clerk thought they were Americans -- or perhaps the Latino-looking one was Larry Howard (a Mexican-American) and Loran Hall was one of the American-looking ones. It depends on the eye of the beholder.

The pieces can still fit. Hall and Howard could have been with Lee Harvey Oswald at the doorstep of Silvia Odio on 25 September 1963, drove down to Mexico that same night (using money they got from Gabaldon some days earlier, when they got their paramilitary supplies).

Their trailer load of supplies from Harry Dean and Guy Gabladon was not with them at that time (otherwise Silvia Odio would have noticed it). Probably it was with Lester Logue or Robert Morris in Dallas, or with some other JBS member.

After dropping Oswald off at DACA in Mexico City late on 26 September 1963 (or early on 27 September 1963) they drove back to Dallas, and picked up WIlliam Seymour, as well as their trailer load of paramilitary supplies.

Then, on 28 September 1963, they rented these Motel rooms. It was definitely Loran Hall, because of the address he gave them (Monterey Park, California) as well as the phone calls that he made (including to Lester Logue and Robert Morris in Dallas).

We have ample outside evidence linking Loran Hall with Robert Morris (who was one of Edwin Walker's lawyers, helping to sue US newspapers for libel against Walker -- for telling the truth about Walker during the riots at Ole Miss on 30 September 1962).

We also have ample outside evidence linking Loran Hall with Lester Logue.

So -- not only do we have Loran Hall and Larry Howard definitely on the road together in Dallas during the final week of September 1963, the times still fit for us to postulate their interaction with Lee Harvey Oswald that week, in a side-trip to Mexico City. They evidently left Oswald in Mexico, as Oswald took Bus #232 back to the USA at 8:30 am on 2 October 1963.

Nice work, Tommy.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Question for Larry Hancock:

After perusing SWHT/2010, and AWOG/2012, seeking your research on Edwin Walker, I didn't find it there. Where did you publish this?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, if you are referring to my publishing my research on Walker...I did not. I researched a great number of leads and individuals whom I ultimately determined were not relevant to the attack in Dallas. You will find lots of familiar names missing from what I've written. A good amount of the research on the ultra right did make it into AGOG but that was in regard to a different crime and Walker was not included there either. That focused on the Swift network, the NSRP and peripheral groups such as the Minutemen and the WKKK. I did pick up a lot of varied information on Walker from sources in Dallas, including certain things on his personal life and habits that I don't feel compelled to share either.

You won't find Walker in my works, you won't find James Files or Howard Burris or the ultra right talk show host from the Pacific Northwest (whom I spent a huge amount of time on and Garrison called as a witness), or the witness/radio man from Oklahoma who ended up in a mental institution (whom I also spent much time on and Garrison called as a witness) - you would won't even find H.W. Bush or a number of other figures that appear frequently elsewhere and whom other researchers find compelling. Their absence simply reflects my analysis. Actually if you look in the preface and introduction I give some of my selection criteria but that's about the size of it.

-- Larry

[Thomas Graves]

...As for the room and board of the traveling trio, if you find solid evidence, that would be pleasantly surprising...

Paul,

Here it is:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1020151

--Tommy

PS Regarding the Oldsmobile and the trailer, photographer Tom Dunkin wrote this in his1967 memorandum about the Interpen bust at No Name Key:

"Hall and Seymour, with 1950-ish blue Oldsmobile and a rectangular, wooden, home-build two-wheel trailer appeared at Glades Country [Florida] Democrat Office on Thursday 24 October 1963. Hall at that time unknown to me."

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_076-100/doc0090.html

FWIW, I did a little "research" on e-bay, and it looks like the license plate was from Florida circa 1960.

Tommy, nice work.

We have documented evidence that Loran Hall was in Dallas again on 28 September 1963, with two others. Who were they? We don't know, but the Motel clerk thought they were Americans -- or perhaps the Latino-looking one was Larry Howard (a Mexican-American) and Loran Hall was one of the American-looking ones. It depends on the eye of the beholder.

The pieces can still fit. Hall and Howard could have been with Lee Harvey Oswald at the doorstep of Silvia Odio on 25 September 1963, drove down to Mexico that same night (using money they got from Gabaldon some days earlier, when they got their paramilitary supplies).

Their trailer load of supplies from Harry Dean and Guy Gabladon was not with them at that time (otherwise Silvia Odio would have noticed it). Probably it was with Lester Logue or Robert Morris in Dallas, or with some other JBS member.

After dropping Oswald off at DACA in Mexico City late on 26 September 1963 (or early on 27 September 1963) they drove back to Dallas, and picked up WIlliam Seymour, as well as their trailer load of paramilitary supplies.

Then, on 28 September 1963, they rented these Motel rooms. It was definitely Loran Hall, because of the address he gave them (Monterey Park, California) as well as the phone calls that he made (including to Lester Logue and Robert Morris in Dallas).

We have ample outside evidence linking Loran Hall with Robert Morris (who was one of Edwin Walker's lawyers, helping to sue US newspapers for libel against Walker -- for telling the truth about Walker during the riots at Ole Miss on 30 September 1962).

We also have ample outside evidence linking Loran Hall with Lester Logue.

So -- not only do we have Loran Hall and Larry Howard definitely on the road together in Dallas during the final week of September 1963, the times still fit for us to postulate their interaction with Lee Harvey Oswald that week, in a side-trip to Mexico City. They evidently left Oswald in Mexico, and Oswald took the bus back to the USA.

Nice work, Tommy.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

What makes you think that Hall and Howard "picked up William Seymour" in Dallas when they allegedly "drove back from Mexico" around September 28, 1963?

What evidence do you have that Seymour was even in Dallas around that period of time, other that Hall's claim in his 16th of September, 1964, FBI interview in which he allegedly said that he and Howard and Seymour had visited Silvia Odio in late September, which was denied by Howard and Seymour, and retracted by Hall himself only four days later?

Most importantly, Seymour was able to prove that he wasn't there.

He was interviewed by the FBI and they established that he had been working for Beach Welding and Supplies Company, Miami Beach, Florida at the time when it was suggested that he had visited Silvia Odio.

Here is the FBI report:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=515428

How does it help your theory, anyway, to have William Seymour in Dallas in late September?

Doesn't it make more sense to believe what Hall and several other people including the Cuban exile Celio Sergio Castro Alba have said over the years -- that Hall and Howard (both with full beards), and Celio Castro (without beard and known as "Quarito" or "Wahito") rendezvoused in Los Angeles around September 11, raised some supplies, redeemed Hemming's 30.06 from Dick Hathcock on September the 18th, and then towed a trailer loaded with medical supplies and weapons to Dallas the next day, at which point they either drove LHO to Mexico City, as you claim, or slept in their car and / or stayed at the Dallas YMCA until they rented a room at the Lawnview Motel on September the 28th, staying at said motel through October the 3rd, at which time they left the trailer full of weapons in Dallas (perhaps so that John Thomas Masen could convert the rifles to "full automatic") and then went back to Florida, perhaps by bus. But if they did go back to Florida by bus, why did they do that? Why didn't they drive Hall's car, instead?

It's well known that Hall was arrested a couple of weeks later in Dallas for possessing pep pills, and that Seymour was detained during the incident, but that was later, on October 16th or 17th, after Hall and Seymour had driven back to Dallas from Florida, in a bluish, 1950-ish Oldsmobile, perhaps, to retrieve the trailer with its precious cargo.

I think it was Hall and Howard who both appeared to be "American" to the manager of the Lawnview Hotel on September 28, because they both had full beards, and it's reasonable to assume that Celio Sergio Castro Alba appeared to be "Latin" to her because he was clean-shaven compared to Hall and Howard, and he must have spoken Spanish to Howard and Hall (whereas they spoke English to each other) because he (Castro) spoke very little English. Regarding Celio Castro's skin color, we know that at least Castro wasn't light complected because he was described by the FBI as having a "medium" complexion.

Celio Castro confirmed in the interview that he and Hall and Howard had stayed at a motel near a highway in Dallas. The description he gives of the motel's location jibes with google maps depiction of 5405 Lawnview Avenue, Dallas, although there is no motel there now, just an empty lot, but you can tell from the street view that something used to be there.

Rotate the "street view" about 180 degrees and you can see the (iron) bridge in the distance which I think Castro was referring to. Also note from the google map that 5405 Lawnview Avenue is just across the highway from Tenison Hill Golf Course and is also near what Larry Howard described as a "Memorial Park" (cemetary).

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47745&relPageId=148

All of this leads me to believe that Loran Hall and Larry Howard and Celio Castro did stay at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas from 9/28/63 through 10/3/63. What's intriguing is where they stayed and what they were doing before that. Larry Howard said they stayed at a motel for about ten days, starting on around September 20th, but the motel's records showed that they stayed there for only six days, starting on September 28...

If Hall and Howard and Lee Harvey Oswald were at Odio's on the night of September 25, would Hall and Howard have had enough time to drive Oswald to Mexico City and get back to Dallas by the 28th?

In order to get back to Dallas by the 28th, they certainly couldn't have spent much time in Mexico City supervising / monitoring Oswald, so why even go there for such a short time? Another way of looking at it is why was it so important for them to return to Dallas so quickly?

I found four photos on Flickr of the empty lot and old signs of the Lawnview Motel:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/crowt59/559082011/in/photostream/

FWIW, the FBI report says they towed the trailer to Dallas with Hall's black 1956 Pontiac.

And, interestingly, the FBI report contradicts what Hemming told Weberman about Celio Castro. Hemming said he was 71 years old in 1963, but the FBI report says he was born in Cuba on September 28th, 1931, making him exactly 33 years old on 11/28/63.

Lastly, Celio Castro is described in the report as being 5' 9" tall and weighing 160 pounds at the time of the interview (9/28/64), and clean shaven as of September, 1963 (sic).

--Tommy

Edit:

Here is a 2011 Florida mug shot of a "Cello Castro," AKA Celio Sergio Castro and Celio Sergio Castro-Alba.

http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=13396

Note that it says this Celio Sergio Castro was 5'9" in 2011 and that he was born 7/28/31, just two months off, exactly, from the 9/28/31 DOB reported for our Celio Sergio Castro in his 1964 FBI interview, above.

The FBI report says that our Celio Castro was 5'9" in 1964 and that he was living in Florida in 1963.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but note that this guy committed his crimes in Florida.

Hmmm. I think it's the same guy

--Tommy

Edited April 14, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

5'9"....160....hmmmmm...where have I heard this description before?.....maybe on a police radio transcript from November 22, 1963?....maybe in Officer Baker's first report?....Hmmmmmmm....

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

What makes you think that Hall and Howard "picked up William Seymour" in Dallas when they allegedly "drove back from Mexico" around September 28, 1963?

...

How does it help your theory, anyway, to have William Seymour in Dallas in late September?

...

Celio Castro confirmed in the interview that he and Hall and Howard had stayed at a motel near a highway in Dallas. The description he gives of the motel's location jibes with google maps depiction of 5405 Lawnview Avenue, Dallas, although there is no motel there now, just an empty lot, but you can tell from the street view that something used to be there.

...

All of this leads me to believe that Loran Hall and Larry Howard and Celio Castro did stay at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas from 9/28/63 through 10/3/63. What's intriguing is where they stayed and what they were doing before that. Larry Howard said they stayed at a motel for about ten days, starting on around September 20th, but the motel's records showed that they stayed there for only six days, starting on September 28...

If Hall and Howard and Lee Harvey Oswald were at Odio's on the night of September 25, would Hall and Howard have had enough time to drive Oswald to Mexico City and get back to Dallas by the 28th?

In order to get back to Dallas by the 28th, they certainly couldn't have spent much time in Mexico City supervising / monitoring Oswald, so why even go there for such a short time? Another way of looking at it is why was it so important for them to return to Dallas so quickly?

...

Lastly, Celio Castro is described in the report as being 5' 9" tall and weighing 160 pounds at the time of the interview (9/28/64), and clean shaven as of September, 1963 (sic).

--Tommy

Tommy,

I knew William Seymour had an alibi for the Silvia Odio incident -- however, I was referring to a time AFTER the Silvia Odio incident, which I date at 9/25/1963.

Besides, I was only using William Seymour in there as a place holder. We have lots of pictures of Loran Hall with William Seymour, and William Seymour was the first person to pop into Loran Hall's cabeza, so it seemed fitting at the time.

The fact is, there were many mercenary guys hanging around Loran Hall during those days -- so it could have been any one of them. In my speed-typing, I was only using 'William Seymour' as a stand-in for 'the third guy.'

Now -- maybe I should be exploring these other persons in the life of Loran Hall -- especially if he's a suspect in the JFK murder. But I'm not there yet. I'm still exploring the personnel inside the Warren Commission volumes (and related FBI memos).

The data about Celio Castro ("Quarito") is interesting because Larry Howard raised that data -- but Celio was only one of many mercenary buddies in this group related to Interpen and Gerry Patrick Hemming. It could have been any of them.

(By the way, I thought Loran Hall redeemed Hemming's 30.06 from Dick Hathcock in early November, not September. The time they slept at the YMCA in Dallas, however, was in October as you noted when they got arrested there for amphetemine possession.)

Now, you believe that Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Celio Castro stayed at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas from 9/28/63 through 10/3/63. I think there is good evidence for that. I also agree that it's interesting to ask where they stayed before that. Larry Howard said they stayed at a motel for about ten days, starting on around September 20th, so what about this time gap?

First we know they didn't stay at Silvia Odio's -- she would not let them inside her front door. They were at her doorstep for 20 minutes. She insists that Lee Harvey Oswald was with them -- and the FBI and Gaeton Fonzi found her believable after hours of interviews. That would have been on 25 Sep 1963.

You ask if there was time to drive to Mexico City and back in that time? Yes, if they used amphetemines and Larry Howard shared the driving task. It's 20 hours to Mexico City from Dallas. We know Oswald already had a Visa to Mexico.

So, yes, if they started driving at 9PM after leaving the doorstep of Silvia Odio, stopping only for gas and food, they could have arrived at Mexico City by 6pm on 26 Sep 1963. They would then (according to Harry Dean) introduce Lee Harvey Oswald to Guy Gabaldon, and then return to Dallas by 3 AM on 27 Sep 1963, again, stopping only for food and gas.

In Harry Dean's scenario (with which I'm working) Hall and Howard were only delivery boys. Gabaldon was the brains of the outfit -- and also had the cash.

Why did they need to return to Dallas so quickly? Because that was their JOB, as I see it. Remember that Loran Hall could never hold down a regular job. He was a playboy at heart, but had no money. Like a young truck driver, he met his many girl friends on the road. He did like the thrill of military combat (as he fought alongside Fidel Castro and Che Guevarra when Gerry Patrick Hemming also fought alongside them) but he was hot-headed and didn't like to be a follower. He wanted to lead his own movement -- which is why Fidel Castro put him in jail -- and also why Gerry Patrick Hemming came to distrust him.

So, to make a living, Loran Hall went around to various John Birch Society meetings, coast to coast, making his "Cuba Betrayed" speech (which can be found on YouTube today) and collecting funds and supplies to bring to Interpen and other Cuba Raid paramilitary groups. He was so valuable at collecting funds and supplies in this way (because he was a decent public speaker in English) that the Cuban Exile community obliged him to accept that role as a full time JOB.

In short, Loran Hall had been reduced to a gun-runner for the Counter-Revolution. He took orders from Guy Gabaldon, a major figure in the John Birch Society in Southern California, and a famous war-hero of WW2. Through Guy Gabaldon Loran met Larry Howard, an Army veteran who would have done literally anything for Guy Gabaldon. Guy told Larry Howard to help Loran Hall in the Cuba raids (as I read it) and that is why Howard followed Hall so often.

Harry Dean helped to load that trailer (as I read it) and all their trailers of supplies. The Los Angeles JBS was a major source of supplies and cash for Cuban raids. This was how Loran Hall made his living.

As evidence, I point to the 1968 National Enquirer interview of Loran Hall, in which he says after his arrest in Dallas in 1968, he settled down to work for a "medical supplies company" in Southern California. This is code-speak for the fact that he never changed his occupation at all.

As for Celio Castro -- the reports about him are unreliable simply because he was one of the paramilitary mercenaries supporting Interpen through Gerry Patrick Hemming (as Hall and Howard also did) and Hemming's policy was to feed disinformation about Interpen personnel and activities whenever possible.

It probably wasn't William Seymour with Hall and Howard in Dallas after the Mexico City trip -- and it probably was Celio Castro, since he seemed to have some memory of the Motel site. Most interesting, Tommy, is your question about what they were doing before that Motel stay. Why would guys who had the job of running paramilitary supplies from Los Angeles to Miami on a continual basis stay anywhere for ten full days?

Yes, we know that Loran Hall was also making speeches at local JBS meetings in Texas, and collecting more money and more supplies, as possible. Yes, they could have been waiting for rifle experts to refurbish the used weapons they collected during their travels.

But the ten days that Larry Howard mentioned seems to be an attempt to cover over the trip of driving Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City! The Motel records do not verify his story!

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

5'9"....160....hmmmmm...where have I heard this description before?.....maybe on a police radio transcript from November 22, 1963?....maybe in Officer Baker's first report?....Hmmmmmmm....

It's an interesting question, Mark, I agree -- that Gerry Patrick Hemming's rifle was found near the JFK murder site, and in the FBI's possession the same day -- and that the earliest DPD reports of a suspect matched Celio Castro more than they matched Lee Harvey Oswald.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

BUMP

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo